It is my firm belief that many disenchanted repubicans have, over the last 10 years, become Dems

[Stinky The Clown]

I am not applying this to any specific person or group of people. It seems clear, however, that many long held Democratic values have been watered down or completely abandoned in favor of what used to be mainstream repubican values. As this has happened to the Democratic party, the repubican party has moved very far right.

I think the people on the left have been abandoned.

Maybe this really is a center right country. Or maybe it is simply made to look that way by the media and their owners.

[Claudia Jones]

1. it is made to look that way

It is a right wing propaganda lie that this is a conservative, or "center-right" country.

The left has been abandoned. Smashed is more like it.

Some Democrats spread the right wing theme that "this is a conservative country." They do that in order to advance their agenda of moving the Democratic party to the right.

[Warpy]

2. It's also happened before when the Hamiltonian party has

made a deal with the devil and the devil has taken over and driven them completely nuts. The Democrats got stodgy and conservative and a splinter party of progressives was formed around one or two burning issues.

Eventually, the issues got resolved, the progressives got complacent, and the Hamiltonians rushed in to take over the party.

We're just unlucky enough to be stuck in the period between the old nutty party dissolving as a national party and a new party of progressives gathering up enough of the desperate to get people elected.

[treestar]

3. "have been abandoned?"

That sounds so victim-y. To be a political force, it is not a matter of others supporting one's ideas, it is about getting one's ideas to become mainstream. It requires one's own effort. That attitude presumes the media, the Democrats, whoever, have a duty to advance a certain subset's ideas over that of others, even a majority. The tea party doesn't think like that. It is why they have more influence than they should.

[Fumesucker]

10. The Tea Party is a creation of the media who carefully tend and promote it..

Exactly the opposite on the left, the media ignore when then can and disparage when they can't ignore.

[sabrina 1]

12. Well, don't worry, now that we know what happened,

we'll be taking your advice. But for the past ten years we were, basically, lied to. It takes a while to realize that, and I think we've been pretty quick, comparatively, in seeing the writing on the wall.

Most of us didn't know about the Third Way, the DLC now the New Democrats until relatively recently. The rightwing infiltration of the Dem Party was subtle, and we had Bush to contend with. But that's all in the past now, now we know.

The teaparty was not a grassroots effort, they were a funded phony group created to drag the Republican party further to the right.

When Democrats form a movement to drive out the rightwing infiltrators it will be a true people's movement. And it has already begun. The problem is that to follow your advice, you realize we cannot support DLC or New Democrats or Third Way policies any more, not even if it means gaining a phony majority. We tried that and it failed completely, it only allowed the party to get to the point where now they are daring to attack the New Deal Programs and support forever war and not hold war criminals accountable eg.

So don't whine when the results of what you suggest begin to become obvious. It won't be easy and the Party Leadership won't be on board. But nothing good was ever accomplished by being afraid of the consequences.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. No one on that side dismisses them. Plus, they have the media on their side.

On this side, the left is often dismissed. There are, just as an example, posters here who throw regular shots at the left, I suppose as some fucked up sort of support for Obama.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Kick and recommended

[Zax2me]

5. Not from the election results I've seen last two years.

But it isn't Dems going repuke -
It's those middle of road twenty percent swinging back right.
They'll come back, though.
They always do.

[Selatius]

6. The Democratic Party would splinter if the US abandoned SMDP voting.

SMDP = single-member district plurality.

Each district is represented by one person. The person who represents the district need only win a plurality of the vote, not the majority. A mathematical phenomenon known as Duverger's Law is observed where such a voting system really only lends itself to two major parties becoming viable. Third parties tend to become spoilers in such situations.

If the US required that a candidate win a majority of the vote instead of a plurality, Duverger's Law would rapidly fade into the background, and the US could actually have more than just two major parties. If the US had this system in 2000 for its presidential elections, then there would have been a run-off between Al Gore and George W. Bush because neither of them reached the requisite 50% + 1 mark needed to clinch victory in the first round of voting. In the second round, Gore likely would've won.

In SMDP, the moderate Republicans being driven out of the Republican Party would have no other viable vehicle on which to gain power except the Democratic Party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. To be fair, both parties would

[tblue]

7. Out tent is so BIG you can park an oil rig in it.

I think you're absolutely right, Stinky. For every Sherrod Brown or Maxine Waters, there are many Blue Dogs.

I really don't want to belong to a diluted/deluded party.

[Cerridwen]

8. I think it was about 7 "Democrats" who were elected in 2010 who then

switched to the republican party within days of the election.

I've never doubted that there are republicans calling themselves Democrats; leadership or "rank and file" membership.

I've spent a lot of time checking for values rather than party membership.

[hfojvt]

11. I know that is true - I can even name some names

myself, and both of my parents, but it was more like 26 or 27 years ago.

But I do not think we have had nearly as much influence as the DLC bringing Republican money over, and without money we cannot compete with Republicans and their money.

I think a basic trouble of the left is messaging though. Our primary messages seem to be about the racism and stupidity of the other side. With that message we do not persuade very many of the other side, except to persuade them that the basic Republican talking point is true - "liberal elites think they are better than you".

While the other side pushes their messages to the point where they become conventional wisdom. Now if you try to argue that "social security is NOT going broke" you have a long, long row to hoe. You sound like a flat earther to most of the public that "knows" that social security IS going broke. In the same way everybody knows that tax cuts will create jobs. The leader of OUR party is spreading that message. Not me, the former Republican, but Obama is spreading that message.

The other problem is liberalism itself. Somewhere in the 1970s, liberalism stopped being about economics. Instead, it was about social issues. It was about discrimination - racial and sexual. It was about abortion. It was about fighting Christianity. It was about GLBTQ. That's a change in Democratic Party values that did not come from an influx of Republicans. It came from rich, college educated 'liberals'.

Well, if Democrats abandon working people, that makes it easier for Republicans to do so as well. The Republicans are not gonna represent them on economic issues, but where are they gonna go? To the Democrats? A party that will not represent them on economic issues either, but will go against them on social issues.

[NNN0LHI]

13. Fair weather Dems are everywhere

Lifelong Dems make up less than 10% of the electorate.

All the GOP has to do is put a little scare into the other 90% and they will invariably scurry back to a daddy figure Republican.

I have been saying this here since Bush the Idiot managed to achieve a +90% approval rating about ten years ago.

Don

[Shandris]

15. I would kindly ask you to watch where you're painting with that...

...brush. Thank you. :)

[Poll_Blind]

16. "Lifelong Dems make up less than 10% of the electorate." Can you back that up with some evidence?

Because I don't buy it, not by a long shot.

PB

[Shandris]

14. Okay Stinky, that's quite possible. But in the midst of that...

...pondering, do keep in mind that just as many of them came because their disillusionment came not from the furthering to the right of the Republicans, but because as the Republicans moved to the right they were forced to look at things that before they were able to 'hide' from themselves, and it made them realize they had been wrong all along.

While I get your point and even agree to it to a pretty decent extent, I didn't join the Party myself until a few years before ten years ago. My reasons had nothing to do with the Republicans turning more to the right, but I'm still one of these people that are on the fringe of your grouping. Am I not a person on the left now? If people on the left have been abandoned, I'd like to consider myself a reinforcement. :)

As for that Center-Right thing...nah, it's not. But at the same time, it is. It's not a left-right thing that makes the split -as much- as it is a libertarian/authoritarian thing, imho. Obviously left-right IS a split...but it's not as big of a deal as the media makes it out to be. They seldom show liberals fighting for 'liberal' (the definition, not the political system) causes, and they seldom show conservatives and their sheaf of authoritarian causes. That is the 'center-right' split -- this country was founded on a fear of authoritarianism, so as long as Republicans are made out to look like the champions of 'freedom', this will always be -called- a 'center-right' country.

[Riftaxe]

17. A very nice belief but the how do you explain

both parties shrinking while the number of independents(non-affiliated) grows?

[peace frog]

18. Several family members, longtime registered Republcans

have quietly voted Democratic for the past 20 years. They refuse to switch party affiliations although they know their party has gone right round the twist.