On TV - Dems wish that Hillary had won....not me...you? nt

[fadedrose]

[Dennis Donovan]

1. Not just no, but HELL no!

Why does ANYONE think that SOS Clinton could've done ANY better with the shit sandwich handed to the new POTUS in Jan 2009??:eyes:

[MBS]

5. " " " " " "

You put it more succinctly than me. Thanks.

[customerserviceguy]

2. She's been careful

to be able to say, "Mine was the one part of the Obama administration that actually worked." I think she wants one more bite of the apple in 2016.

[dsc]

4. really

I am sure you have a link of her saying this since she has been so careful.

[customerserviceguy]

39. I do not

It's just my impression of her, based on observing her for twenty years.

She didn't have to be part of the Obama administration, she could have remained in the Senate. I feel that she really wants a shot in 2016, since it's clear that our party is not going to nominate Joe Biden then. You notice that she accepted the position of Secretary of State after Biden had been chosen, she believes in "keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer."

[wisteria]

31. That is questionable. My opinion is she will retire after SOS position is done.

The only reason she is popular is because she isn't making any decisions or voting on unpopular issues that people know about and the press isn't demonizing her.

[customerserviceguy]

44. And that's why she got out of the Senate

I'm sure it absolutely infurated her that Obama, with his thin resume, could wrest the nomination away from her. She had domestic policy experience and legislative experience (at least she served a full Senate term and won re-election), the only thing missing was foreign policy experience. Well, she figured out how to get that.

She's not going to be terribly old in 2016, and I really think she tasted the power of the White House way too much to give it up without at least one more fight. Biden's even older than she is, and if Cuomo wants to run for the 2016 nomination, he'll find that Hillary has all the NY political and financial resources tied up.

She's stayed safely away from having to make responsible decisions on domestic policy, and she's been willing to bend heaven and earth to implement her foreign policy. As that is the one area that the media has not been giving Obama a hard time about, she's been given carte blanche to run things her own way. She knew that whether or not people were tired of Barack Obama by 2016, she'd be able to either run as part of a well-admired adminstration, or as the one part of a failed administration that worked well.

You haven't seen the last of her.

[MBS]

3. Hillary is a good SoS but

NO, NOT the presidency. Certainly, things would have been no better, and, in my opinion, they likely would have been significantly worse. (This is time to remember Hillary's hawkish instincts and voting record. .) Above all, there would have been the sense of a re-run rather than a fresh start.
Whatever one's level of impatience or disappointment, or whomever you choose to blame for the difficulties that Obama and all of us have faced, We made the right choice.

[aquart]

11. Because of how it would have made us feel?

Could there be a more shallow reason? OBAMA MADE US FEEL GOOD ABOUT OURSELVES. FRESH.

We don't seem to be feeling so fresh right now. We seem to be feeling Hooverish.

[aquart]

6. Buyers' remorse.

I said the devoted acolytes would be the first to turn.

Would the Republicans have treated Hillary any differently? No.

Would Hillary have done things differently? WE WILL NEVER KNOW.

Obama is what we have. Deal with it. And never forget the Supreme Court.

[sufrommich]

7. On TV? What show? When? What did "they" say? A little

more information would be nice.

[fadedrose]

10. On MSNBC

Alex Witt, just a few minutes ago, and several yesterday.....

[Whisp]

15. i'm sure CNN and the rest will be saying the same

over and over and over. They will do everything they can to demean Obama and make him look 'weak' because their corporate bosses are getting a little antsy about the things Obama is trying to do.

Yet some think Obama is a corporate stooge and in cahoots with these big guys, go figure. They'd be praising him like they did Bush if this were so, instead the guy can't get a break, if he chooses the wrong paperclip it's a big deal.

It's still a loooong time to the election and I am afraid to think of how far they will go.

Obama will be needing a lot of support and backup against these behemoth assholes.

Hillary? She would have folded months ago under all this pressure, she just doesn't have the cool and that would have made a next woman president (Warren!) all the more difficult to get.

[Nye Bevan]

8. Hillary has impressed me enormously in her role as Secretary of State.

Working her ass off and quietly doing a superb job.

But would she have been a better President than Obama? Would she have taken a harder line on the Bush tax cuts and single payer/public option, for example? Would "they can't stand having a black President" have been replaced by "they can't stand having a female President"? I really don't know. I am interested to hear other DUers' take on this.

[fadedrose]

13. But in what way has she helped the President?

Her fan club jumps up and down everytime she makes any kind of appearance. Quietly helping herself, maybe..?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

17. They're both hawks; she's doing the grunt work while he's winning Nobel Peace prizes.

I'm no fan of Hillary's policies, but I will hand it to her: she's perceived as intelligent, hard-working and dedicated. That helps *Him*...surely you see that.

[Arkansas Granny]

18. Hillary has served her country and the President who appointed her.

If the President didn't feel that she was helping or performing her duties as expected, I'm sure he would replace her.

[Frustratedlady]

9. No. They would have treated her the same or worse than Obama.

The only saving grace would be that Hillary and Bill know what's in a lot of closets, so some of the Repubs might have backed off.

[HappyMe]

20. Yup. I think she would have been treated worse

(if that's possible) than Obama.


She's doing a good job as SoS.

[wtmusic]

12. Cheney-initiated drivel that is being nursed by his minions. nt

[WI_DEM]

14. What is the poll that shows this?

[defendandprotect]

43. Probably a Dick Cheney polll -- ???!!!

[seabeyond]

16. if you are talking poll cnn did, was 34%. and ws not excluded to dems vote

just a general poll. they interpret that as dems wanting hillary to win. bullshit thinking

[Pab Sungenis]

19. Hillary couldn't win.

McCain and the RNC had geared up to destroy her as effectively as Kerry had been. She would have never had a chance.

And I don't see how she would have governed much differently than Obama.

[Poll_Blind]

22. ^ This pretty much sums up my opinion.

I'm a big critic of the President but I don't spend the days wistfully thinking that, even if Clinton did win, it would have been much different. Different shape? Yes. Different outcome? No.

Just as an aside, and this isn't so much about Hillary Clinton, it's about politicians in general: I'm really tired of this semi-dynastic Presidential shit. John Adams/John Quincy Adams, George HW Bush/George W Bush and the potential Bill Clinton/Hillary Clinton presidency.

For a nation so diverse and intelligent, all of those examples smack of a failing in the Democratic concept. There's just no reason for it. Same goes for Hoffa father and son in the unions. It's more a "name" brand thing than a coincidence of capabilities.

On the other hand, if anyone has ever seen Jesse Jackson, Jr. in the House. Seeing him as acting speaker of the House, the man knows his rules backwards and forwards. Incredible to see in action.

So maybe I'm full of shit.

:)

PB

[GoCubsGo]

33. That's my problem, too.

It's the "dynasty" thing that turned me off of Hillary. If it weren't for that, she might not have been my last choice of the lot. I really don't that things would be no different at all had she won. The repugs would be just as disrespectful to her, and just as obstructionist. They might be even worse in the disrespect department, given her and her husband's history with them. And, because they're as misogynistic as they are racist.

As for Jesse, Jr., his father was never elected to any office, so I'm no sure he really should be lumped into the "dynasty" thing. He is young enough that I expect he could be Speaker of the House one day.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. The MSM will never tell you that there were four other contenders for

the Democratic nomination in 2008. As early as 2007, all the coverage was Hillary vs. Barack, Barack vs. Hillary.

That's why I knew we were screwed. The MSM had decided that these two candidates were the ones who wouldn't rock the yachts.

[Poll_Blind]

25. See, I didn't see that. I felt that Obama was portrayed as much an outsider (in many respects) as..

...Kucinich. It was a combination of his rhetoric and the way the media and the Clinton campaign ("Not as far as I know!") tried to destroy him at every turn that I really felt he was coming out of Left field- obviously in a good way.



I mean, come on!



(!)

Between that and the people seemingly driven to shoot the man because they were outright racists, I felt anything but that he was "accepted" by the media. On the other hand, if you look at Fox news, they were practically making her an honorary member of the team.

Ugh that was a bad year for fighting and insanity at DU.

PB

[sufrommich]

27. You do realize the New Yorker cover was a swipe at

teabaggers,right?

[Poll_Blind]

35. Yes but the problem is at the time there was a real problem with people believing Obama was Muslim.

Even among some of his supporters- which came up in a great piece Steve Kroft did for 60 minutes. Satire, especially satire that dry, in an environment where there is machinery in place to promote (what is portrayed in) satire as fact...it wasn't helpful, and that's looking at it in the kindest possible light, IMO.

Remember, the New Yorker winds up on news stands all across the country and probably the world, in places where some of the imagery might not be questioned as deeply as in more-informed places.

I thought it was an egregious lapse of editorial conscience, at best, for the New Yorker to run such a cover at the time it did. Remember, a much lower percentage who saw the cover actually read the full article.

I, myself, grew up in a place with a lot of racism and an image which you or I might view as satire, others might see as a confirmation of their erroneous belief.

PB

[Little Star]

26. Do you think that it was/is/will be the same for every...

primary? If so, then we should always be leery of the front runners because they have the stamp of approval from TPTB.

Personally, I think it probably was/is/will be.

[99 Percent Sure]

23. No! and you know what?

If she'd won, she'd have the same struggles as President Obama does with the Repubs and certain Dems. Besides, she didn't win. People who play the shoulda woulda political game are troublemakers, IMO.

[sammytko]

24. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Hillary and Obama were my last and next to last choices. Both 3rd Way Democrats.

My initial thought was that at least Obama isn't a Clinton. As it turned out he's just as bad or worse.

[GoCubsGo]

29. No, and what I want to know is...

Who are these "Dems" that are saying that? Besides Carville. He's no Democrat in my book.

[wisteria]

30. No. n/t

[RZM]

32. I didn't detect a whole lot of substantive policy differences between Hillary and Obama

During the primary campaigns. We'll never know how different things would be, but from the information we have to go on, I would guess not very. On the Republican side, I see no reason to believe that the Tea Party and whoever else wouldn't hate Hillary just as much as they hate Obama. If anything, Hillary hating has a much longer pedigree going back to the 90s.

A more interesting question (to me) is what would Obama be doing? Would Hillary have given him a cabinet post? And (forgive me), would some of the people here arguing for a primary challenge against Obama be arguing for the same thing? Because in this alternate scenario, they might actually have had a viable candidate for that :evilgrin:

[timtom]

34. No Way!!!

no text

[philly_bob]

36. Primaries. Me: I'm voting for HRC because we don't know enuf about BO.

DU poster: That's your fault because there's plenty of information online about him.

So how'd that go for you, well-known DU poster?

[underpants]

37. The media is trying to bury Obama

that is clear. They are trying to dissuade people from voting by already calling the election.

[ibegurpard]

38. hell no

I supported Obama because I was afraid she would give us exactly what I am getting from Obama...ironic huh?

[Liberal_in_LA]

40. economy would have still been in the toilet, under any president

[mmonk]

41. No. The old DLC connections were why I became an Obama delegate

instead of a delegate for her. The irony was I got an administration full of recycled Clintonites anyway. Nothing personal against either her or President Obama, I just have a different outlook and or vision from them.

[defendandprotect]

42. Hillary is part of DLC/Third Way leadership --- !!! Yikes!!! No ... !!!