Reno Air Crash-- how bad it could have been...

[hlthe2b]

In an article (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/09/16/reno-plane-crash-lack-of-safety-rules-makes-air-shows-deadly.html) looking at the safety issues of these exhibitions and air races, an article on Daily Beast by Clive Irving points out the following:

the worst air-show crash in history was at the Ramstein air base in Germany in 1988 when the Italian air force team, Frecce Tricolori, flying a stunt called “the pierced heart” ended with three of the jets colliding and then slicing through the crowded spectators, killing 70 and seriously injuring 346 others—carnage recorded pitilessly on camera.

Heavens... Does anyone remember that?

Here's the wiki article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_airshow_disaster which points out that
the only medical emergency standby MEDEVAC helicopter was hit by one of the falling aircraft, fatally injuring its pilot, Capt. Kim Strader.


While Irving makes some good points about the rationality of having a 74 year old pilot taking part in this kind of event, I think there is a much bigger issue... Don't you?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. VR goggles. Just like being close to things that you shouldn't be close to. n/t

[exboyfil]

2. By coming straight down

and missing the main concentration of the crowd, I think alot of deaths and injuries were avoided. Some reports state that the pilot corrected at the last minute to avoid the grand stands??

I never take my children to air shows, and this is the main reason (also I don't get a thrill out of people risking their lives). I was very nervous when we had an air show going on above our dog agility tournament once (the facility is next to an airport). The dogs were very scared and the noise was frightening. A jet was doing acrobatics immediately above the facility (this facility also borders a neighborhood). I don't want planes doing acrobatics over my head and especially not over the heads of my children.

[NYC_SKP]

3. Straight in, smaller "footprint" than a long streak through a crowd, I suppose.

But who knows... Not sure if he was conscious or not or could have steered completely away from the scene.

These things are like car races, shit can happen, they'll never be entirely safe, I've never taken a personal interest in the dangerous flying bits of an airshow or a car race, though I enjoy looking at the planes and cars at shows.

:shrug:

[malaise]

6. The experts are saying he was not in control of the aircraft

since it is obvious that a piece of the tail was missing.
That said - they haven't yet released the number of dead. Expect a drip drip.

[Historic NY]

9. This plane is over 64 yrs old w/ many modifications in its life ...

beyond what it was originally built for. The pilot has owned and flown the plane for yesrs. Its was either skill or sheer luck that made him take it in straight. There are reports he put out a "mayday" call moments before. I'm sure an investigation will tell us.

http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/survivors/pages/44-15651.shtml

[malaise]

10. Watch the video and report

From the photos he took, O'Brien said it looked like a piece of the plane's tail called a "trim tab" had fallen off. He believes that's what caused the plane's sudden climb.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44556695/ns/us_news-life/#.TnS6CNSluE0

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Five so far

two more died overnight at Renown Medical Center

[Dennis Donovan]

4. I remember the Ramstein Airshow accident very well...

It was a horrific accident which changed how airshows were planned and executed. Because of it, airshows would be planned so that all acts and maneuvers happen away from the crowd (at Ramstein, part of the Italians' act was to take place directly over the crowd - the aircraft that slammed into the crowd was to fly straight at them and then pull up).

In the Reno Air races, at no time does any aircraft pass directly over the crowd. This accident likely happened because the aircraft's horizontal trim tab somehow de-stabilized the airplane (think Buckminster Fuller), causing it to veer off-course dramatically and into a section of the viewing stands.

As far as the pilot's age, all licensed pilots are required to have a physical exam by an FAA-certified Dr, so, if he had ANY hint of a condition that could debilitate him while being PIC, he would've been denied his medical certificate.

[MicaelS]

5. And precisely WHAT is "the bigger issue"?

Are we as a society going to to ban EVERYTHING that is the least bit dangerous?

[hlthe2b]

7. Where exactly did you read that I was advocating such?

Discussing how to make these events safer and perhaps whether or not they can be made safer, that annoys you? :eyes:

[MicaelS]

14. When you have high performance aircraft

Racing at low altitude and high speeds in front of crowds, there is always going to be the potential for accidents and casualties.

The aircraft are inspected by the FAA, the pilots have to have frequents medical exams mandated by the FAA.

If air racing can't be made any safer, then what? Are you going to want to ban them? Yes or no?

[hlthe2b]

19. I'm not in the business of banning anything..

FAA will report on this incident and others can decide what steps are appropriate--including, but not limited to further distancing of crowds.
I don't know why you need to be so defensive and accusatory, but your rudeness is totally unnecessary. Despite exhortations to the contrary from the RW and libertarians, progressives aren't just lying in wait to ban any and everything. I certainly am not. I do expect that we should try to make things safer when we can and when the evidence justifies.

[sam11111]

8. Money WASTE , huge. I say since we have 10,000/mo. dying from homelessness we shd not waste big

money on entertainment.

Modest spending for entertainment OK, but costly types are a waste society cannot afford.

Take care of those literally dying in the streets and then think about yacht racing and air shows.

Humanity cannot afford them.

Aside. Go to

Ediblegold.com

See what else the idle rich are doing.

[kestrel91316]

11. "WE" didn't waste money on this event because it was private and not a

government paid event.

While I abhor the whole bread and circuses thing, and agree that we need to be spending money on more important things, we can't lose sight of the fact that ANYTHING that gets wealthy people spending their money instead of it sitting in a bank enriching more wealthy people is a good thing. Not all the spectators were wealthy, but I am sure some were. As were the people who own and fly those planes, and the event's sponsors.

[Itchinjim]

12. If you don't like air shows or yacht races, don't attend them.

Please don't dictate to the rest of us what we may or may not enjoy.

[Emit]

15. The Reno Air races brings millions of dollars to our regional economy each year.

[Cerridwen]

17. Hey, Emit.

How are things up there today?

I saw your posts in yesterday's monster thread and I was hoping I'd "see" you today to find out how you and yours are doing.

[Dennis Donovan]

16. I don't mind that the rich SPEND their money - it's the ONLY "trickle-down" economics that works

The men and women who maintenance and fuel the aircraft are likely NOT millionaires.

[Cerridwen]

13. I found this blog post from another pilot; not sure if he was there or not

He was discussing the age issue. I want to first point out something that people are gradually learning but may not yet be applying.

Your physical fitness at any age, can be determined by your socio-economic place in the US, as well as all the other factors of which we're already aware. I've grown up in the west. I've known some tough old cowboys and not a few tough old cowgirls; and I've know some of each who were "broken down" before they hit 40.

We really don't live in a one-size-fits-all world.

Okay, here's the link to the blog post and I'll stash my soap box in the corner.

Before assuming age was a the cause of the Reno crash today

[hlthe2b]

20. I agree. I don't agree that this should be the focus...

of any further safety measures--unless proven otherwise.

[Dennis Donovan]

21. By all indication, this is an airframe failure event...

If indeed true, then the focus of the investigation and any recommendations forthcoming should only involve the maintenance procedures of the crew and support personnel of this aircraft.