Uh oh. "Mass casualty event" at Reno, Nevada airshow

[rainbow4321]

Per Lawrence O'Donnell show

Plane crashed near the crowd. Sounded like they said the pilot was 80 but he doesn't look that age on his facebook...plane, maybe??

They showed a brief video that someone took of the crash as it happened

on edit:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/national_world&id=8357625

[NNN0LHI]

1. Here is a link

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44556695/ns/us_news-life/

[malaise]

3. This looks very bad

“The plane vaulted violently upward, followed by a dive straight into the front of the reserve grandstands.

[villager]

2. Oh shit. I feared the worst when "crash" and "stands" were in the same headline

n/t

[enlightenment]

4. Apparently they are up to 13 dead and more than 30 injured.

Very sad.

[joshcryer]

7. Link?

[enlightenment]

32. Oh, sorry.

I live in Las Vegas - was watching the local news.

[malaise]

5. Live coverage on CNN

Crashed near or into the grandstand

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Casualty numbers

A medical official said more than 75 people were injured, 25 critically, The Associated Press reported.

Reno... don't have the Trauma capacity

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44556695/ns/us_news-life/

SINGLE Trauma Center

http://www.renown.org/body.cfm?id=1497

Per WWW... from my own knowledge, they could possibly handle TEN at trauma bays... designated and otherwise, this is personnel based...

They will need HELP... NG or AF will have to join in and transport to Vegas and CALIFORNIA

[malaise]

11. My worst fear is that national guard and army folks

were in that grandstand and reserved section

Are you watching Brandon Wright - the guy who was rescued by the folks who pulled him from under the car.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. just turned to cnn

Expanded post... they will need NG teams, PJs probably, and alerts in California and as far as Nevada... the National Alert System is probably chirping..

[Cerridwen]

17. California's closer. Not sure about flight time-wise but mileage wise.

Sacramento and San Francisco "just" across the border.

Fallon Airbase is up there too but I can't think right now where.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Any they do transport will be by air

they are, I am betting, on alert.

[Cerridwen]

29. Yeah, I know, that's why I made note of that.

"Code Triage" according to hospital spokeswoman.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Oh shit that has more than just a strange meaning to me

JAYSUS!!!!

[LeftyMom]

30. Sacramento's MUCH closer than Vegas, and has a big regional trauma center,

a specialized burn unit, and a children's hospital. I'm guessing they'll fly anybody who can make it over the Sierras.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Yup...

Depending on how many burns... they might be alerting all the way to San Diego...

And I mean how many badly burn.

Of course San Diego would be the ... ok we really have way too many patients...

Oy... medical choppers must be flying in as we both type... and crews are on alert or taking off.

[Joe Fields]

119. To my knowledge Vegas has no trauma center.

There was a big flap over that a couple years ago.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. I knew the Trauma director a few years ago

as he put it... politics

But did not think they lost it

[Cerridwen]

133. UMC - Trauma I (updated)

Pretty sure it still holds that designation.

My mom used to have to rush my dad there.

UMC website: https://www.umcsn.com/

If wiki is current and correct

Level I trauma centers

University Medical Center

Level II trauma centers

Sunrise Hospital & Medical Center

Level III trauma centers

St. Rose Dominican Hospital – Siena Campus

-------------

People dying due to lack of trauma care is bad for tourism. I'm a native Las Vegas; pardon my cynicism.

----------

From their website:

Top-of-the-Line Technology
University Medical Center is the state-designated Level I Trauma Center for Southern Nevada, as well as the only advanced facility to offer a specialized team of medical professionals prepared to respond to the needs of the severely injured 24 hours a day. UMC also houses the state's only burn care facility -- the Lions Burn Care Center and operates a comprehensive free-standing unit devoted solely to physical medicine and rehabilitation.

From sophisticated Orthopedics and Neurological Units to our Ambulatory Surgical Center, UMC is dedicated to meeting your health care needs every day by giving technology a tender touch.

[Emit]

45. Better news than originally thought 22 have been admitted 2 deaths 9 in critical condition

the rest treated and expected to recover

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Oh that is handable

;-)

They might move one or two... to OTHER centers... but that they can.

[Emit]

56. and that was from one of the two major hospitals here we haven't heard the numbers from

the second hospital

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Did a search, it is THE trauma center

the other hospital will handle less serious casualties, matter of equipment and staff...

At least if Triage and catchment works the same way...

(And it should, I and my head of hospital blatantly stole them from Seattle, or ahem borrowed them)

[Poll_Blind]

8. Terrible- aren't all aerobatics supposed to happen in an invisible box safely away from...

...any and all crowds? I realize nothing can protect a crowd if a pilot has, say, lost consciousness while performing a maneuver but...(?) Really, after the Ramstein air show disaster, I thought there was a major reorg of how these things were done.

PB

[Poll_Blind]

9. To clarify: I hear a reporter call this "air racing" not "airshow". Air racing is...

...a lot closer to the crowd, usually.

PB

[TheWraith]

37. And really, it all depends on what the aircraft was doing, and where.

Yes, things are supposed to be kept away from the crowd, and standard airshow procedure is that the aircraft's vector should at no point be allowed to point AT the crowd, so if for some reason the pilot lost control, it wouldn't crash into said crowd.

However in practice, the failure of a control surface, or partial structural failure, or pilot error, or a dozen other mechanical issues could all cause the aircraft to veer off course.

The odds of this, and of it resulting in a crash into the crowd, are of course absurdly low. But then, so are the odds of you getting hit head-on by a tractor trailer driving down the road. Doesn't mean it can't happen.

[Poll_Blind]

48. Very good points.

Yeah, still very early to know what was supposed to happen versus what actually happened. And with, as you said, a control surface failure or something like that could dramatically change the direction the aircraft was heading. I guess there's going to be a news conference in about 30 minutes at 7pm.

PB

[Kolesar]

10. The Cleveland Air Races were moved to the desert after a plane hit a house and killed people

I thought it moved to Reno, NV.

The pilot was eighty years old? Isn't driving hard enough at that age?

[Poll_Blind]

12. I'm wondering about G's taken during hard turns, etc.

Blacking out is not something a person has much of a choice over.

PB

[Kolesar]

15. Pilots wear "G suits" and have to flex their leg muscles to keep the blood in their brains

...from running down into their legs. I expect you are right.

I used to be love reading about that stuff in the 1960s. Now I read about wildflowers.

[MH1]

18. Pilot doesn't look 80 years old. (the plane was, maybe?)

Pilot is given as Jimmy Leeward, and here is his facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/JimmyLeeward?sk=wall&filter=2

Edited because I see now in a couple places '80 years old' connected with Jimmy Leeward ... I just hope I look that healthy when I'm 80.

[Kolesar]

35. Yes, eighty seems unlikely

That is what MSNBC reported: KOLO-TV reported that the plane that crashed was named Galloping Ghost and was piloted by Jimmy Leeward, described by other media as an 80-year-old real estate developer from Ocala, Fla.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44556695/ns/us_news-life/?ocid=twitter#.TnPjaOw1agA

He has been racing since the 1970s, so he might be sixty.

[kenny blankenship]

20. Really, and flying in an OLD ASS plane

Old plane, old pilot, low altitude, big crowd, high speeds - come on folks, don't we have more sense than this?

Ol' Jasper's heart misses a couple of beats and he could shunt it straight into the grandstand, and it's Le Mans 1955 all over again - maybe times 3 or 4.

[malaise]

24. Apparently not

It was a 'special VIP area' according to Rachel.

sp.

[madinmaryland]

40. The planes are HIGHLY modified. Kind of like NASCAR cars are HIGHLY modified street cars.

[Posteritatis]

55. With a racing one by now, probably the only original component is the shape of the thing. (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Engine is original issue

still a Merlin

[Posteritatis]

92. Original design, or the actual original components? (nt)

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Same technical data

she read the engine number, rachel did, and I went looking, thinking it is not... it is...

The engine itself, as you know well, may very well be modified... but same number and everything.

When I saw the photo of the pilot, we met him at the Miramar Show two years ago. We have photos of that bird... he talked lovingly of his bird.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. From what they said right now on CNN

the category the galloping ghost was competing is a non modified aircraft category. They just need to maintain 500 MpH, which the P-51 could.

I am not sure if this is a rerun by the way or not.

[MicaelS]

134. A lof of those OLD ASS planes are WWII warbirds...

Just like this Mustang. They don't make them anymore, that's why they're up to 70 years old. And the FAA still has to inspect and certify them for airworthiness.

Life is a risk, bad things happen all the time. We can't ban everything, nor should we try.

[Cerridwen]

14. "augered straight into the ground" near the viewing stands

Different video from the one in OP. Watch on the far left.

More info at link: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/15483738/breaking-plane-crashes-at-reno-air-races

Info at link being updated; hit refresh/reload to see updates.

Renown Regional Medical Center was told to expect 80-100 injured. Several witness reports indicate there are several fatalities as well.

[Posteritatis]

21. Gah, what the hell happened? Everyone else was flying, well, horizontally. (nt)

[Cerridwen]

25. Still a lot of conflicting reports.

In stands, near stands...numbers are changing..etc.

[malaise]

34. Well if 40 folks have been sent to hospital and

75 people was injured that's 35 dead - damn - that's horrific!!!
I hope the racing club has money for the law suits.

[Cerridwen]

57. It's looking pretty awful.

One news site reporting body parts.

It's also reporting that "of those taken to the hospital" 2 have died. That phrase in quotes scares hell out of me.


http://www.rgj.com/

edit to try to fix link. link won't fix. have to go to front page and click from there.

A phone number for families to call.

775-972-6663

[Hissyspit]

61. Into crowd in front of stationary stands. See Video I posted below.

But be forewarned: DISTURBING and sad.

[Emit]

41. Just caught the tail end of a man who was there and witnessed it saying the pilot

new he was going to crash and pointed his plane down in an attempt to avoid hitting more people in the stand. Not sure, but I think that's what he was trying to explain.

[Hissyspit]

62. It does look that way in the two videos I have viewed.

Very sad.

[TheWraith]

42. Hard to say. Could have been a control surface malfunction.

Those old planes don't have "fly by wire" the way modern ones do, there are direct physical linkages to the flaps which control maneuvering. If one of them breaks, it's kind of like the tie rod on a car breaking--it can cause you to swerve off wildly in a totally unexpected direction.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Here is the data on the Mustang

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_P-51_Mustang

It is a high performance fighter... and it carries plenty of fuel...

Burns, fractures, mass trauma..

[malaise]

26. Metal flying

Bet there are better regulations for the next race.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Personally I am sad to see 'nother Mustang go out

It is a beautiful bird, especially in these circumstances...

[kenny blankenship]

46. Maybe I shouldn't admit this but that is my first thought as well

Not concern for the pilot (pilots old or young are replaceable, Mustangs are not!) nor was I greatly alarmed about the deaths of the spectators. You buy your ticket and you take the ride. Unfortunately people will drag their families to this kind of event too. The numbers of reported injured remind me of the Le Mans '55 disaster in which 84 people were killed from the flaming wreck of one Mercedes into the grandstand, and over one hundred more injured. Along with the staggering number of the dead, was the grim detail that at least one entire family had been wiped out by the crash. Not all of the people there in the stands should be considered responsible for the stupid risk they are exposed to by being there. With auto racing the risk to spectators can and has been minimized. With aerial racing it just can't be mitigated much at all. If you're close enough to see the race, you are in danger. I saw the video clip of the plane crash and it's just dumb luck the plane hit at a steep angle on the ground, instead of slashing through the stands. Had it gone into the stands the death toll estimate might well have begun with 84, and gone up from there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Yeah he dove onto the ground

I did notice that too.

Not that many will see it, he saved lives.

[malaise]

28. Official - 75 injured

Crash wiped out the front of the box section - rows A and B - from the press conference. People are dead.

From CBS
A World War II era fighter plane plunged into the grandstands Friday during a popular annual air show, injuring at least 75 spectators and leaving a horrific scene of bodies and wreckage.

CBS News affiliate KTVN Reno, however, reported that the plane did not hit the stands but the tables nearby

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/16/national/main20107634.shtml

[rainbow4321]

47. "like a car race in the sky"

From your link:


"The competition is like a car race in the sky, with planes flying wingtip-to-wingtip as low as 50 feet off the sagebrush at speeds sometimes surpassing 500 mph. Pilots follow an oval path around pylons, with distances and speeds depending on the class of aircraft."


----------------
Shit. 500 mph while only 50 feet off the ground? Not much room for error.

[malaise]

53. Well given that reality

this was going to happen some day. Hope they're ready for the law suits. Even the survivors lives have just changed forever.

[TheWraith]

54. Compared to some precision flying, it's lots of room for error.

You want to see something terrifying--watch the Blue Angels perform. Four US Navy F/A-18 jets, EIGHTEEN INCHES from each other, doing ~500 per, though a series of maneuvers.

[Lasher]

19. Maybe we should stop having these airshows.

Ya think?

[malaise]

23. The plane crashed into the VIP area n/t

[sylveste]

51. why?

life is full of risks. you roll the dice and you take your chances.

[Major Nikon]

77. We should stop having concerts too

Just sayin'

[OneGrassRoot]

85. I'm with you...

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I've personally felt that way for a long time.

[Throd]

126. Just don't attend.

[MicaelS]

130. Absolutely not....

Bad thing happen in life all the time. We can't eliminate all risks in life, nor should we try. People get killed skydiving, moutain climbing, bungee jumping, climbing mountains and so on.

[pinboy3niner]

131. The risks at air races and air shows probably are lower...

...than the risks involved in driving to and from them.

[Emit]

36. We are watching it on local news here in Reno. My son was there yesterday.

This is terrible - looks like casualties in the dozens involving spectators.

[malaise]

38. I'm so glad he wasn't there tonight

Looks like scores were killed.
:grouphug:

[Emit]

43. Yes my kids go every year with the elementary school and we were just thinking

that this might be the last based on this. This is so sad - I'm watching and listening and yes, thank you, I am so glad this didn't happen yesterday when his school was there! But, other elementary schhols may have been there today! So sad.

[malaise]

44. I doubt if any kids were in rows 1 and 2 of the reserved section

It is very sad.
I really hope no schools were there this afternoon.

[Emit]

59. Local news says middle school students from Pine Middle School were there today and all are account

accounted for.

And so far the casualties are lower than expected thank goodness; edited to add waiting to hear more about victims sent to another hospital, so we still do not know the total impact of this yet.

[malaise]

158. Glad the kids were OK

Hope they did not see those horrific injuries

[Change has come]

64. It's been a very traumatic year in northern Nevada.

Each event more shocking than the last.

[PCIntern]

39. Horrendous. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

50. Confirmed 2 died after going to hospital, pilot was 80 year old Jimmy Leeward...

...piloting the heavily-modified "Galloping Ghost" P-51 Mustang. Per ABC live video stream HERE

PB

[TorchTheWitch]

141. actually he's been newly confirmed to have been 74

The guy doing the press conference apologized for previously getting his age of 80 wrong and and confirmed him to have been 74... he said something to the effect of "Jimmy would be so mad at me for getting that wrong". Don't know who the guy was but he was someone who knew the pilot well. He looked a bit shell shocked though he said he didn't see the accident himself.

The press conference was from that same video stream you linked at around 11:00 pm EST (don't know what that time would be locally).

[Hissyspit]

60. EXTREME GRAPHIC WARNING: Disturbing Video of Crash, Impact Site, Aftermath:

39:00 in.

http://www.livestream.com/loadedtv/video?clipId=pla_b2efcd7d-ed04-4edf-89e8-f21ff436ccb4&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Thanks for sharing

Yup a tad gruesome, NOT that I could judge from vid... but at least I did not see any burns... Not saying anything, just that what I saw.

[Liberal_in_LA]

65. very graphic. Saw a live person lying there with leg amputated.

he was being helped but the wound was not covered.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. That did not surprise me or shock me

given the nature...

[Liberal_in_LA]

66. what was going at 46 and a bit after where the guy in the white tshirt grabs the hand

of a young woman and starts walking with her, then another man shoves him off?

[undeterred]

124. Looks like spectators got involved in caring for the injured

pretty quickly from the video.

[SidDithers]

68. Jimmy Leeward flying the Galloping Ghost in 2010...

It's a P51 Mustang.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ufv8rKS6mc

Flying out of Leeward Air Ranch in Florida.
www.leewardairranch.com/

Site won't load. It's either been pulled, or is overloaded. Google cache is available.

Sid

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Not able to confirm numbers per Mike Draper

and I am not surprised.

Protocols were activated, Guard and EMS...

[Hissyspit]

70. Via Reno Airport Twitter Feed: @RenoAirport: The 2011 National Championship Air Races are cancelled.

https://twitter.com/#!/RenoAirport/status/114877633937940480

[Cerridwen]

71. Hissyspit, could you please confirm for me that the phone number for family

members is getting out on twitter?

775-972-6663

Thanks. People from all over go to watch those races.

[Hissyspit]

73. I'm seeing it getting Tweeted.

Just Tweeted it myself, too.

[Cerridwen]

74. Thank you.

[Cerridwen]

72. Emergency responders calling it "mass fatality" Phone # for family: 775-972-6663

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Ok that brings back memories. not good ones

Oy...

Confirmed deaths will probably go up...

And I hope NOT

[Hissyspit]

75. Latest from AP: At Least 3 Dead, 56 Injured, Several Critically

From AP Twitter Feed: "Official: At least 3 dead, 56 injured in #Reno air race crash, several critically injured: http://apne.ws/nREbxp -CJ"

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Hosptials involved

St Mary's. looks like BASIC ER

http://www.saintmarysreno.org/index.htm

And Renown Trauma Center

http://renown6.reachlocal.net/homepage.cfm?id=1

That is a L-II trauma

They are also asking for blood donors

[Cerridwen]

79. From one of the links I'm following; St. Mary's says has same trauma training

Although St. Mary's is not designated a trauma center like Renown Regional Care Center, they have the same training, Grey noted. They also have drills where they practice emergency response.

"This isn't the first time there have been incidents like that where all the hospitals get called in," Grey said, citing bus crashes as other examples.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Good to know, since they did receive a few crits

[Cerridwen]

87. Hope they have equipment needed for the training they can use

Reno is a transportation/shipping hub; trains, buses, trucks - they've handled some ugly crap over the years.

They're also just "around the mountain" from state capitol.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. I am almost proof possitive

Sac is on standby to be honest.

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Update from REMSA and Channel Six in Reno

UPDATE 3 — Plane crashes during Reno, Nevada air show, multiple fatalities

RENO (BNO NEWS) -- At least two people were killed on late Friday afternoon when a World War II aircraft crashed during the Reno Air Races at Reno-Stead Airport in Nevada, officials said. At least 47 people have been injured.

The accident happened at around 4.30 p.m. local time when a P-51D Mustang known as The Galloping Ghost, being flown by 80-year-old Jimmy Leeward, crashed into a seating area during the air race.

"The aircraft did not catch fire but there was a wide debris field following the crash," said Ian Gregor, a spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). "Multiple FAA inspectors were observing the air race at the time of the crash."

Stephanie Kruse, a spokeswoman for the Regional Emergency Medical Services Authority (REMSA), said its ambulances transported a total of 40 people to area hospitals. Several others were transported by ambulances from other agencies.

http://channel6newsonline.com/2011/09/update-3-plane-crashes-during-reno-nevada-air-show-multiple-fatalities/

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. The Engine is the Standard Merlin

from what Rachel is reading

http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/p-51_mustang.pl

When she first read Packard I went... changed? Nope, it is a Merlin

[Cerridwen]

84. A tweeter using phelps name and hashtag #picketingfunerals

I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. %$$^&&$&

about covers it...

[Cerridwen]

88. I'm not sure what experience that kkklan has with

miners, ranchers, lots 'o military, bikers, all in one spot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Almost tempted to hit that road and join

the counters...

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. 62 minutes from incident to secured...

I am IMPRESSED. This also means all patients reached medical center within golden hour... which is GOOD... and again I AM IMPRESSED!

[Cerridwen]

94. Over 100 spectators had medical training and helped

Live news conference.

a tweet just scrolled passed

denverpilot
Continued... By 30 minutes #Reno EMS had more ambulances and helicopters inbound than they needed. Super job Reno EMS. #aviation

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. It showed in the video

:-)

[Posteritatis]

99. That's the time to get all of the injured to one hospital or another?

That's amazing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Why I am throughly impressed

:hi:

This is professional admiration\ envy.

[Posteritatis]

103. That's just astounding

My medical/first aid training at the moment consists of "I want first aid training when the chance rolls around at work next month," but I can still imagine how amazing that kind of turnaround in that chaotic a situation is.

(Though I also get the impression it wasn't as chaotic as it looked in the video.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Nope, it is controlled chaos

when it goes well. Truly controlled chaos.

I will give you an insider view to an MCI at a wedding... we were the first unit in. I grabbed my triage tags... and as the triage officer went from patient to patient, check..

breathing? Reposition airway if not... pulse, card them

Dead, no pulse... forget CPR... tag black...(that incident did not)

Critical Tag red, several, incoming units were told to transport those first

Non crit but can't move. yellow...

Walking wounded green,

My first thing literally was to order my walking wounded to just sit down where they were... then did the fast triage, and requested the rest of my units.

That scene from first unit on scene, which left with first critical, sans me, it had a three man crew.. ... to last unit leaving... took thirty minutes, we only had twenty patients. I left in the last rig, with five walking wounded. (And since we were short I also got to play Public Relations Officer with the press, that I hated)

[renate]

152. at a WEDDING? how *horrible*

How could this not have been national news? I don't remember having heard of it but it sounds horrific. What happened and how many casualties? The poor family, and especially the bride and groom, for their anniversary to be a permanent reminder of something like that.... :cry:

[nadinbrzezinski]

153. 20 plus so years ago in Tijuana

a car drove through a wall into it..

We transported a total of 20 patients or so...

3 critical... ten delayed, the rest walking wounded.

To be honest it was nooz down there... as in it took two news cycles.

Thankfully neither the groom or the bride were injured... and the three critical survived.. even the 70 something with a broken hip... the first patient I ordered out.

By the way, his fear and pain, that face is one I can't forget... even if my contact with him as a medic was about 45 seconds.

[renate]

155. I'm so glad nobody died... oh my goodness

From your description it sounded like a mass shooting kind of thing, which made me extra sad because a deliberate act of violence at something like a wedding would have been even worse.

Well, give yourself and your coworkers a pat on the back for getting everybody out and such good care of them that they all survived--well done! :thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

156. IT was also the first time we fully used

cards and the START protocol. Took a lot of arm twisting to convince all that it was worth using. After they all saw it was that good... well, everybody liked it.

Our cards were in English since they did not exist in Spanish yet. So we had a bunch printed.

These days, I am just an old retired medic... this morning I got to dodge cops, fire trucks and ambulances, oh my (robbery at a local mall) Now that was fun... and training actually came back... nothing like a fire rig coming at you lights and sirens weaving in and out of traffic.

:-)

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. Cerridwen posted this

http://alertpage1.posterous.com/renonv-air-race-crash-september-16-2011-415-h

this is the audio for the first 45 minutes, if you are curious as to how the dance goes.

If you need translation on any of the terms et al...

PM me...

This was a very well drilled EMS team... like war, you train as you work and you work as you train them

[Cerridwen]

110. Remember the MGM fire? 1980

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM_Grand_fire

A lot was learned in NV from that.

Also, as previously noted, lots of military and medically trained people were in attendance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. That led to the triage et al protocols

used... and them pesky cards



And of course the START protocol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage

[Cerridwen]

113. I had friends and family working that

Communications, medical, fire, police

I worked down the road. Had friends who worked there.

Stories...ugly, awful, stories.

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. Hugs, it was indeed ugly

[Cerridwen]

116. Are you on twitter?

I finally got mine going.

Someone posted this link to the first 45 min of emergency comms.

http://alertpage1.posterous.com/renonv-air-race-crash-september-16-2011-415-h

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. Yeah I am on twitter

Do I want to?

And that is not me, on posterous

I am and damn memories...

Thanks

[Cerridwen]

118. I don't know. I didn't click to play.

Based on what I saw on twitter, it was mostly an example of great emergency communications.

I'm not going to attempt it tonight.

[nadinbrzezinski]

120. It is... calm, professional

you know the drill...

[Cerridwen]

122. Thank you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. 20-25 reds, 20-25 yellows

multiple greens, no wonder nobody knew exactly how many actual were injured...

There were not that many blacks on scene, in fact I have yet to hear one. I suspect the two blacks at hospital were two of the reds...

Damn I know what I am hearing... I am impressed.

Calstar from Sacramento (air Ambulance) also flew in per communications

Actually two out of state aircraft came in...

[malaise]

159. I'm definitely impressed with the response

and of course information from informed DUers.

I learn new stuff here daily.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Is CNN live? I am not sure

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. Leeward was 74

BreakingNews Breaking News
Reno air races crash: Pilot Jimmy Leeward was 74 (not 80); NTSB takes over crash site bit.ly/qp4LOD
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[TorchTheWitch]

98. pilot confirmed to have been 74 years old

Just finished watching the press conference on ABC. Horrible tragedy. Just horrible.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. From Senator Reid

SenatorReid Senator Harry Reid
I am so grateful to our 1st responders for their swift action & will cont. 2 monitor the situation in #Reno as it develops
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

SenatorReid Senator Harry Reid
I'm deeply saddened at the news of this devastating accident in #Reno reut.rs/pAJUe7
2 hours ago

[alittlelark]

104. Only donation found... $250 to a R

Just wondering how a man of that age got admitted to the cockpit.

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.php?name=Leeward&state=FL&zip=&employ=&cand=&c2012=Y&c2010=Y&c2008=Y&sort=N&capcode=97nbk&submit=Submit

[Cerridwen]

106. Decades of flying and being a stunt pilot; annual physicals

He sold real estate in FL.

[Posteritatis]

109. Surprised it took as long as it did before someone tried to make this political. (nt)

[JI7]

123. this just seems wrong, not everything is political

[cordelia]

160. People are dead and injured, and you want to

make this political? Utterly disgusting and inhuman.

[Codeine]

170. Who the fuck cares what political contributions he's made?

God-damn.

[Cerridwen]

105. Some of pilot's family members were there and witnessed crash

Another eyewitness said "that pilot saved a lot of lives"

current *speculation* is he managed to direct plane away from more crowded seating.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. That is the way it looks to me from two of the videos

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. Oh my

DMCGAUGHEY2011 David McGaughey
RT @getmeoutnews #UNCONFIRMED > #Reno > The elevator trim tab came off and the plane became uncontrollable, not pilot error.
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[Cerridwen]

115. Corrected - Sparks and Carson looking for AB blood

United Blood Services #Reno says it does not need any more blood donations for tonight #renocrash #airraces #RenoAirRaces

rqskye
United Blood Svces in #CarsonCity 256 E Winnie Lane. Plz, go in this weekend to donate blood. They're low on AB. #NV #airraces #renocrash
20:44:59 via: web
rqskye
United Blood Svces in #Sparks 4670 Spark Blvd. Plz, go in this weekend to donate blood. They're low on AB. #NV #airraces #renocrash

[Cerridwen]

127. "if he wouldn't have pulled up...hurt thousands of people..."

Tim Linville, 48, of Reno, said the plane appeared to lose partial control off the plane when he veered off course and flew over the bleachers where Linville was sitting with his two daughters.

“I told the girls to run and the pilot pulled the plane straight up, but he couldn’t do anything else with it,” Linville told the AP. “That’s when it nosedived right into the box seats.”

Linville said after the plane went straight up, it barrel rolled and inverted downward, crashing into an area where at least 20 people were sitting.

“If he wouldn’t have pulled up, he would have taken out the entire bleacher section,” and hurt thousands of people, Linville said.


http://www.rgj.com

can't direct link to article

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. Sounds mechanical and he tried to direct the plane away

RIP to the pilot

[TorchTheWitch]

138. apparently, that isn't what some of the pilots think

An eyewitness (Joel Wodke) said that he talked to some of the pilots that were actually friends of the pilot that crashed that saw it and they believed that he either blacked out or had a heart attack or something of that nature. Joel and these guys commandeered an old helicopter that was apparently there as part of the show and flew it to the crash area to help get victims to the hospital.

I can't find the video of Joel's interview again, but here's a pic of him with the helicopter helping a patient get transported (he's the guy in the black cap and t-shirt with the goatee)...
http://cmsimg.rgj.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Site=J7&Date=20110916&Category=EVENTS05&ArtNo=109160802&Ref=PH&Item=28&Maxw=620&Maxh=465&q=60

It's part of this series of photos of the plane and the impact and the aftermath...
http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Site=J7&Date=20110916&Category=EVENTS05&ArtNo=109160802&Ref=PH&odyssey=mod|mostpopphotos

I found the video of his interview on this page (it was one that popped up after the first one ended) but now I can't find it again...
http://www.rgj.com/article/20110916/EVENTS05/110916045/Video-Reno-Air-Races-crash?odyssey=tab|topnews|img|FRONTPAGE

[Cerridwen]

139. Yeah, there's all kinds of speculation about what happened and how.

I don't know what happened and I'm not watching any of the videos since the very first one.

I have former co-workers and friends in that area. I don't want to see their death or injury on youtube.

I'll wait for the lists to come out. :(

[TorchTheWitch]

143. Yeah, I couldn't watch that one either

Some of the photos were bad enough. For some reason the one of the plane nose down just before it hit really disturbs me the most.

I'm kind of hoping he blacked out or something like that... I hate the idea of him knowing what was coming especially in a nose down position seeing the ground coming up at him. UGH.

I hope the people you know weren't there!

[Cerridwen]

146. Thanks, TorchTheWitch.

Me, too.

I keep thinking of him trying to fight it.

Then I think of the people who were there.

Then I try not to think of the ones I know.

Damn.

[nadinbrzezinski]

145. Hugs

let me know if there is anything I can do, even in another state.

[Cerridwen]

148. Thanks, nadin.

Right now it's just sit, wait, hope. I should try to sleep. Uh, huh. *sigh*

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. Don't know if this helps at all

GUYCLIFTON Guy Clifton
Those wishing to check on the status of loved ones should call 775.337.5800 or locally dialing 211. #reno #airraces
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[kenny blankenship]

154. Heart attack -that was my guess

Pilot pulls up hard on the stick involuntarily because of the pain, the plane climbs steeply, pilot slumps to one side with the stick clutched in his hand, so the plane rolls over and the climb turns into an inverted loop interrupted by the ground.

[TorchTheWitch]

183. that makes sense

I don't really know a thing about flying, but if that's how the stick works then that makes a lot of sense. I just really hope he was unconscious at the time so he didn't know what was about to happen especially in a nose down position.

[nadinbrzezinski]

132. Mechanical failure seems likely

3 dead, 56 injured in horrific Reno air show crash

RENO, Nev. (AP) -- A World War II-era fighter plane flown by a veteran Hollywood stunt pilot plunged Friday into the edge of the grandstands during a popular air race, killing three people, injuring more than 50 spectators and creating a horrific scene strewn with smoking debris.

The plane, piloted by 74-year-old Jimmy Leeward, spiraled out of control without warning and appeared to disintegrate upon impact. Bloodied bodies were spread across the area as people tended to the victims and ambulances rushed to the scene.

Authorities were investigating the cause, but an official with the event said there were indications that mechanical problems were to blame.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AIR_SHOW_CRASH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. St Mary's patient load

mwalber13 markwalber
RT @GUYCLIFTON: St Mary's received 25 patients. 4 in critical condition, 6 in serious condition and 15 in fair condition. #reno #airraces
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. Renown load

ArnieManton Arnie Manton
“@cnnbrk: Hospital says it received 22 patients, 2 of whom died, after crash at #Reno air races on.cnn.com/nT1Sho”
11 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. Finally status of patients

rgj RGJ.com
16 victims in critical condition between Renown and Saint Mary's. #reno #airraces
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

PERSONAL view, expect some more to die. Trauma is that way...

[Cerridwen]

140. There's another number they aren't yet reporting...

that's the one that's scaring the shit out of me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. Well, from EMS report you posted

that matches number of transported patients...

But I know what you mean. There was no fuel going off... so that number wil be low to none (I hope)

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. Live coverage still with local nooz

http://www.ktvn.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?vt1=l&d1=0&ClipId1=mms://a853.l3173335588.c31733.n.lm.akamaistream.net/D/853/31733/v0001/reflector:35588&LiveURI=mms://a853.l3173335588.c31733.n.lm.akamaistream.net/D/853/31733/v0001/reflector:35588&h1=Watch%20LIVE%20Coverage&at1=News&LiveURITitle=Watch%20LIVE%20Coverage&LaunchPageAdTag=News&fvCatNo=undefined&secure=undefined&akPort=undefined&akProfile=undefined&rnd=66566981

[rainbow4321]

147. Photographer got a pic of the plane right before impact

Sorry if this is a dumb question...but is the window see thru or is it mirrored...no sign of the pilot..does the pilot sit further back than the window?

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. She was a late model, so they did have the seats

further back.



This is an earlier model

And like this earlier model, in D day colors, it even has a different canopy



This was also a racer, and racers were modified to increase aerodynamics.

And there are no silly or stupid questions.

[malaise]

162. 30 pics related to the crash

http://www.rgj.com/article/20110916/EVENTS05/110916036/Plane-crashes-Reno-National-Championship-Air-Races

correct number

[TorchTheWitch]

182. I wondered that myself

I mean why you couldn't see at least a bit of his helmet sticking up through the window. I never thought it might be mirrored... I just figured it would be clear Plexiglas or something like that. I'm hoping he was blacked out and slumped over so he wasn't even aware that impact was imminent. I just hate the idea of him knowing it was coming and seeing the ground rushing up. Gads... horrible thought.

[nadinbrzezinski]

151. On the air disaster

On the National Air Races\ RENO air disaster...
There is only one thing to say... to those who died and their families, peace.

To the rest, may you meed the care you need, and may you recover and may your life not change that much. Trauma tends to do that.

It is a marathon to recover, not a race.

To EMS... well done, very well done... I was impressed listening to your Emergency Comms, very impressed.

To all those civilians with medical training... who helped, well done.

To the folks at the air show who took that old chopper to take patients... well done.

This is community, pure and simple. As a country we need to get over the us vs them, because when it comes to it... that is what we need to do...

Nadin

now back to usual mode

[nadinbrzezinski]

157. Well the sharks are out

Reno Air Show Accident Attorneys

Annually, the National Championship Air Races draws thousands of fans each year to watch a variety of military and civilian planes race. On September 16, 2011, the pilot of the P-51 Mustang, identified as Jimmy Leeward lost control of his WWII plane and crashed into the grandstands killing himself and at least three others, and injuring many more. Those who have been the victims of this catastrophic aviation accident are entitled to compensation. In accidents like these, where the cost and length of recovery is great, it is highly recommended to seek legal representation to ensure you will be fully and fairly compensated for either your serious injury or a loved one’s wrongful death.

http://www.esteyandbomberger.com/reno-air-show-accident.html

Yes, there might be grounds, but boys could you at least have waited for code triage and surgeries to be over?

:banghead:

[malaise]

161. Well I did post the 'expect

the lawsuits' ages ago. Aircraft racing 50ft above people is plain stupidity - this was bound to happen some day.

[Major Nikon]

163. They don't race above the crowd

Just sayin'

[Major Nikon]

164. The trim tab appears to have come off the elevator before the crash

I'm not sure if that would have actually caused the crash, but it seems to indicate some type of structural failure.

[GliderGuider]

165. One odd thing - a very clear photo taken of the plane just before impact shows no sign of the pilot.

Here's an earlier pic of the same plane showing how Leeward's head should have appeared. The link to the pre-crash photo is below it:



Now click on the following link to see the high-res pic of the plane taken in the final dive. It's a side-on profile shot, and Leeward's head should be visible in the canopy. As you can see, he is completely out of sight. Is it a sign of a possible medical problem? But he should have been strapped in too tightly to slump out of view in such a small cockpit. A failure of the seat or the straps seems unlikely. Strange.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/media/ALeqM5jkHpn9H12gJtyp8VX8yjFfSc8hPg?docId=96254e803f4b447f98f53e82491e8a7f&size=l\

[nadinbrzezinski]

166. As I posted above that bird had a racing canopy

she was also a later model...

[GliderGuider]

167. The pic of the plane in horizontal flight clearly shows that even with the modified canopy

the pilot's head is normally visible just aft of the canopy bow, in the main bubble.

[nadinbrzezinski]

168. Here is a photo of the rear trim tab

(Thanks Fumsucker for the thread you started)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1956733&mesg_id=1956733

To me it pretty much nails it... it was mechnaical

[GliderGuider]

171. Yep. That would explain the angle of the final dive.

Not a chance of pulling out at that low altitude.

I had a partial elevator failure while flying a sailplane in in the late '90s - it's one of the most frightening things that can happen in a plane short of a spar failure or a mid-air. Without pitch control you're pretty much toast. I was very, very lucky. Leeward wasn't. And so it goes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

172. Also the canopy photo

it pretty much be a matter of lighting.

[GliderGuider]

175. There is some cloud reflection, but the far side of the bow is clearly visible through the canopy.

It's probably just one of those things, though. The trim tab is most probable cause.

[nadinbrzezinski]

177. And as you said, he was strapped in

It looks to me that he TRIED (and probably succeeded) in redirecting the fighter from the crowd. It could have been that much much worst.

[malaise]

173. Thanks for the explanation

I learn something new daily at DU

[Major Nikon]

178. That doesn't really fully explain it to me

Without the trim tab, the elevator is going to want to return to a neutral position. This would make the airplane want to remain at whatever pitch it was at prior to the trim tab coming off. If the airplane was already in a dive, it would make it harder(if not impossible at those speeds) to pull out of it, but it wouldn't necessarily put the airplane in a dive.

[GliderGuider]

179. A lot depends on the evolution of the flight path in all three dimensions.

Elevator trim is typically used to reduce back pressure on the stick, and does that by forcing the tail of the aircraft down. The trim tab is raised further into the airflow as the speed increases, in order to counteract the increased lift from the horizontal stabilizer. So the departure of the trim tab would have the same effect as jamming the stick forward.

In addition to the photo that shows it the trim tab breaking away, there is at least one photo out there that shows the aircraft inverted with the trim tab completely gone. Trying to recover from that attitude by rolling upright could put the aircraft nose-down. Once in that position, there could have been insufficient elevator control left to pull out.

Tab breaking away:



Tab gone (click the link):

http://www.theunion.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=TU&Date=20110916&Category=BREAKINGNEWS&ArtNo=110919822&Ref=V1&Profile=1053&MaxW=550&title=1

[truedelphi]

180. How'd you manage to pull that off?

And I am glad you did.

[GliderGuider]

181. The story of my near-death experience from elevator problems...

It's fairly detailed, so that any pilots who read it might get something useful out of it.

The incident happened in the mid-morning one Saturday in October 1997, in Ottawa. I was a passenger-rated pilot with about 200 hours on gliders of various sorts. I was flying a single-seat Pilatus B4 sailplane like this one:



It was a club aircraft, so other pilots flew it. The B4 has a T-tail, with the elevator hinged at the rear of the horizontal stabilizer. The hinge creates a gap that allows air to flow through between the stabilizer and the elevator. That creates some turbulence around the elevator which reduces the plane's performance a bit, so to smooth out the airflow it's common to tape over the gap with flexible tape. We used black electrical tape.

When I pre-flighted the glider that morning everything looked tickety-boo. I got hooked up to the towplane on the end of a 200 foot tow rope and trundled off down the runway. We were about 20 feet off the runway doing maybe 60 knots when the glider suddenly ballooned upward, rising up above the towplane on the end of the tow rope. The problem with that situation is that the lift of the glider can pull the tug's tail up and cause it to motor into the dirt. The correct response is to immediately move the stick forward to bring the glider's nose down and descend into line behind the tug. I moved the stick forward, but nothing happened - the glider just kept rising.

I pushed the stick as far forward as it could go, which gradually slowed and finally stopped the climb about 50 feet above the towplane. The glider stabilized into horizontal flight, but I couldn't make it descend - I already had the stick against the stops and the glider was flying level. I couldn't push the stick forward any further so I couldn't bring the plane's nose down at all. I had to fly level and let the tug's climb bring us back into alignment.

I had no idea what had happened. I thought maybe something behind me in the fuselage had broken and shifted the glider's center of gravity, but I hadn't heard or felt anything break. I decided not to release instantly, as I'd been trained to do, because I had no idea what the glider would do if it wasn't being pulled through the air by the towplane. An emergency release at low altitude was not an attractive option, because I'd be too busy coping with the plane's unknown handling characteristics to pick out a survivable landing spot in the woods right ahead at the end of the runway.

We continued the climb-out, and then at about 200 feet above ground I relaxed my grip on the stick and let it come back a bit, and the whole thing happened again. The only way I could maintain level flight was by holding the stick all the way forward. That should have been enough to send me into the beginning of an inverted loop, but in this case just kept me barely level.

I thought about things for about a week during the next thirty seconds, and decided I could probably hold on until we reached my planned release altitude of 2,000 feet. My reasoning was that I had no idea if the plane would keep flying when I released the tow-rope, so the more air I had under me if things went south the more time I would have to recover. I was not wearing a parachute.

So I flew behind the towplane all the way up to 2,000 feet with my stick jammed full forward, being really careful not to make any sudden control movements. At the planned altitude I took a deep breath and pulled the release handle. The tow rope dropped away, the tug cleared to the left and I waited to see what would happen to my glider.

When the glider didn't immediately stall and drop into a spin, I let out my breath and concentrated on flying straight and level. As long as I kept the stick all the way forward the glider maintained level flight and a constant speed of about 55 knots. Normally such treatment would have made the glider dive steeply and accelerate through 120 knots. Everything else seemed OK, though. After a couple of minutes I tried some very gentle turns. Those went OK, and even using the spoilers didn't upset the flight characteristics. I spent 15 minutes flying around pretty gingerly to become familiar with the plane's handling, then took another deep breath and set up for the landing.

I entered the landing pattern at 800 feet. I kept the stick fully forward and the airspeed up so that I would be sure not to stall and spin down low during the turns in the pattern. Those turns were nerve-wracking. The landing was fast but otherwise normal, and when the glider stopped rolling I just sat in the cockpit on the runway for a few minutes waiting for my heart rate to come down and join me.

Then I got out and did a very thorough post-flight inspection of the plane. When I got to the tail, the culprit was obvious. The leading edge of that electrical tape was pulled up off the horizontal stabilizer, but the trailing edge was still stuck tight to the elevator. That sight frightened me more than the flight itself had.

The tape had been put on a couple of weeks before, so the adhesive had aged somewhat. The cold temperatures the night before I flew had crystallized the adhesive still more. When I had inspected the plane before the flight everything seemed normal, but when the speed increased during takeoff the airflow was strong enough to break the weakened adhesive and rip up the front edge of the tape. If the tape had just ripped right off I would have been OK, but the back edge stayed glued down. The raised flap of tape right across the tail blocked the airflow over the elevator, largely destroying its lift. That caused the tail to more or less stop flying.

It turns out that this is a known accident mode in gliders, especially in competition saiplanes where Mylar strips are used the same way we used that electrical tape. Such incidents are generally non-recoverable due to the complete loss of pitch control, and a number of pilots have died as a result. I was just very, very lucky - I had barely enough pitch control left to keep the plane in the air.

The use of electrical tape for this purpose was legal at the time, but was prohibited by Transport Canada some time after my incident...

[truedelphi]

184. That is some story. i hope it helps someone who flies and

Who catches your tale.

Glad you knew what to do and that luck was with you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

169. Renown repots two patients died overnight

five dead as it stands now

[malaise]

174. Expect drip drip re fatalities

Sad

[nadinbrzezinski]

176. I expect it since that is the nature of the business

from the 25 crits that they transported... depending on how crit they were... they could still lose (will actually) a few more.

It is rare that no crit dies later on...

Yes there is an actual formula for how many you could expect to die later on... and it has to do with medical status, combined Trauma Score and a few other factors.