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How much does it actually cost for the Government to create a job?

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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:38 AM
Original message
How much does it actually cost for the Government to create a job?
Some say up to $250,000 per created job. How is that?

Can explain this to those that don't know?

Thanks in advance.
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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. If we took the 2 trillion dollars being held in tax shelters that's creating *0* jobs
And instead used it to create jobs, we'd have 8 million jobs, even with that 250,000 dollar per job price.

2 trillion dollar hoard that was created out of a Republican and media promise that it would create jobs: 0 jobs
Declare that money null and void and instead use it to create jobs: 8 million jobs

What sounds better?
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Claudia Jones Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. it is nonsense
It cannot be explained. The right wingers just make this stuff up.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. We're allowing corporations to destroy nature, natural resources, animal-life ...
Edited on Fri Sep-16-11 11:56 AM by defendandprotect
and to exploit humans --

The payoff for that used to be that they created jobs --

they've broken the agreement --

And we've lost our ability to survive on this planet due to the Global Warming

they created --


Time to hand corporations the bill for this destruction and shut them down --


Economies are people driven -- we don't need corporations --

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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. It's amazing how everything relates to global warming.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Amazing that we've permitted elites/corporations to exploit nature for so long -- !!
"Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" are the licenses for elites

to exploit --

Time to present the bill -- what's the planet worth?

Or are we going to decide to stop judging everything by the yardstick of a dollar bill?



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youforeal Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. how ever much it costs to put that person to work and for how long.
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abelenkpe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. If the government hired directly
similar to a WPA style jobs program it would cost the amount of the salary going directly to the worker and is considered to be the most cost effective. If they hire private contractors there is additional cost in that the government cannot dictate the amount that goes to the business overhead and CEO salaries vs what goes directly to hiring individual workers so the price goes up a bit per new hire. If the government tries to encourage the private sector to hire through tax cuts and incentives the price per hire goes up even more and is difficult to track. The last option is the way preferred by advocates of free market no regulations types aka republicans. If anything saying that the price is 250,000 per hire is an illustration of why the third option is the worst and an argument for opting for the first option which was favored by democrats and FDR during our last crisis.

Of course today we have republicans who say we should do nothing at all, that government should take no role in improving the economy during this crisis. These are the same people who think we shouldn't do anything to aid areas hit by natural disasters unless they can also lay off workers elsewhere. Today's republican is a special brand of crazy. They want your vote so they can have a government job so they can prevent government from serving the people.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. it depends on how the job is created - by spending or tax cuts
If $250,000 is spent on a highway project, how many jobs does that create? Some of that money is going to supplies, like concrete, asphalt, and rebar. Some of it is going to gasoline to run the machines. Some of it is just providing work/income to people who already have jobs as opposed to creating new jobs. But all of that money more or less directly goes to people, providing them with income, even the money spent on concrete provides income to the concrete plant and their workers.

One example I recently saw on the news is that the Post Office is $9 billion in the red. In order to close that gap, they are talking about getting rid of 120,000 workers. That averages out to just $75,000 per job - which is still a heck of a lot of money per job, but I think the job cuts only close part of the gap. But there is one way the Government could save 120,000 jobs for just $9 billion. But then what happens next year?

The other way the Government supposedly creates jobs is by giving tax cuts. If the government gives $250,000 in tax cuts, then the rich people who get those tax cuts have three choices - they can spend, save, or invest. Real investment, as economists define it, would just be a different type of spending. Investment as the public thinks of it, involves buying stocks and bonds. To an economist that is just an empty transfer, not real investment. Real investment would happen when a business buys machinery or a building or some other structure (I am thinking of the water department putting in a new pipeline or a road or a levy, all of those would be considered investments.)

Either way that money goes back into the economy. Money invested provides income to those who sell the stock (some of whom do not live in the US) and then those people can save, spend, or invest. Money saved eventually gets lent out, except for a fraction that is required to be kept in reserves. Then the borrowed money is spent or invested which provides income for a seller.

Eventually money spent is supposed to create or save a job. Money for retailers allows them to hire, or keep their people employed, and more sales mean more work for manufacturers.

To me, it seems like a very convoluted way to create jobs, especially if it takes $250,000 in tax cuts to create a job. Because with that $250,000 you could just hire 7 people at $30,000 a year (with FICA taxes that would cost $226,065) and when they spent their paychecks that would stimulate the economy just as much as the tax cuts would.

Of course, there would be problems with that. First, what are those seven people going to do? It's probably not a good idea to pay them to do nothing. Second, the people who currently work for less than $15 an hour are going to want one of those $30,000 a year jobs. Say you start the program in January and by April it has created an $8 job. Are people gonna quit their $30,000 job to take an $8 an hour job, even if it is more permanent? I'm probably not going to. I will stay with the $30,000 job for as long as I can. Maybe in December I will take an $8 job, maybe even in November, but not much earlier than that. $576 a week is just too much more than $320 a week.

A lot of taxpayers might get mad if they make less than $30,000 to think of their tax money going to pay people more money than they get if those people are not working real jobs. For some reason people get less upset about those making $80,000 or $90,000 a year getting big tax cuts. Because they get their own $600 and that acts as a pacifier, distracting them from the $2,400 that richer people are getting.

So in that sense, it is the greed and jealousy of the average voter that makes them want to pay more to create fewer jobs than to use a more direct approach. They think, as long as I get $600, then I don't really care if it creates jobs or not.

This concludes chapter 1 of war and peace, thank you for reading to the end.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Good Post
There is a big difference in efficiency in creating jobs. Part of it is how direct the job creation is, part is how productive the jobs are, and part of it is where the jobs are (paying offshore suppliers or overseas military does not flow back into the economy).

Inefficiency of job creation is a reasonable concern, which is why it should be generally used as a last resort. This is one of those times.
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. When you hear a figure like that, someone is lazily
dividing the cost of the stimulus ($800bn) by the number of jobs saved/created.

It is a meaningless figure.
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alc Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. $450 billion divided by 1.9 million jobs
That's the cost of the jobs bill and the projected number of jobs it will create. The result is $250,000 per job.
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Cool Logic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Politicians do not actually create jobs; rather, they endeavor...
to take credit for jobs that are created by others.

An assemblage of attorneys, most of whom have never run a business, is more likely to impede, rather than facilitate the creation of jobs.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think we could take half the military budget and
create a lot of civilian jobs. Oh, it might also bring our troops home.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Consider the amount of assets businesses have invested per employee on the payroll
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2007/performers/industries/assets_employee/index.html
shows the assets per employee for the Fortune 500. Setting aside the banking, finance, and insurance companies, where assets are mostly paper, the various industries range from $2081 K for the energy industry down to $132 K for general merchandisers.

Depending on what sector or business you want to grow, it is reasonable to expect that a jobs program will have to invest a comparable amount in order to expand business by another permanent, self-sustaining job.

If all you want to do is pay someone to do something for a year temporarily, then it is just salary and benefits for that year, which is a lot less. You can probably create a job for a year for $7.25 /hour * 52 weeks * 40 hours / week * 1.6 for HR expenses, management, minimal benefits, etc. = $24,128 / year.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. Once you give the insiders and fat cats their cut...
... which they will play with on the gaming tables of Wall Street...

... not much left for the worker.
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