Seriously? Starting price $35-$40 per lightbulb, stabilizing at $20?

[seaglass]

I know we are moving away from incandescent bulbs but I haven't been paying close attention.

Last night listening to NPR they were discussing the replacement of 100 watt incandescent bulbs with LED bulbs. Starting price for these bulbs is $35-$40 each with prices expected to stabilize at $20 each. They are purported to last for 10-20 years, unlike CFLs they contain no mercury and they do have better lighting than CFL - close to if not incandescent light.

People will get light bulbs as housewarming gifts. When people move from one place to another they will take their light bulbs with them. Wonder what kind of incandescent black market will form.

Seriously though - I understand the environmental impact - but how will people afford this?

And btw I have no clue if we even have any 100 watt bulbs but I'm sure we have plenty of 60s.

[Blues Heron]

1. don't they pay for themseves and then some through reduced electrical consumption?

[former9thward]

6. If you live long enough.

[seaglass]

9. I believe over the lifetime of the bulb which is 10-20 years. Don't break one!

I haven't investigated this at all, I was just shocked at the price of the bulbs.

One of the speakers on NPR said that the average homeowner has 50 bulbs in their house and I haven't even checked to see if that holds true for me.

[elleng]

18. Was thinking the same thing.

I don't have 50 in my apartment, more like 5 or 6, and my friend may have 20 or so, but damn! WE couldn't afford to replace all of ours.

[TalkingDog]

59. That would be incredibly difficult to do. But have fun worrying before getting all the facts.

n/t

[seaglass]

67. You could probably count the number of non-lounge OPs I've ever started

because usually I do want to know/research everything I am talking about before I start one (which means I don't start many :-)). I decided I'd take a chance and display my ignorance - willing to be enlightened/corrected.

So I think you are trying to tell me if I drop an LED lamp it likely wouldn't break.

Thanks for the enlightenment :-)

[TheWraith]

75. LED lightbulbs are effectively unbreakable.

To damage one, you'd have to either shoot the thing or take a baseball bat to it.

They're also not mandatory, so their price is completely fucking irrelevant, and only caters to the right-wing temper tantrums over the fact that CFL bulbs are replacing incandescents, and their belief that it's some kind of hideously expensive government mandate.

[elleng]

15. Would love to see 'them' pay with 'their' credit card at the cashier!

:-)

[frazzled]

2. Well, I'd like to replace all our recessed lights with LEDs

But I could never do it all at once, just one at a time, over time. But I'm waiting for price to go down a bit. Right now, the bulbs we use cost 8 or 9 dollars a piece. They seem to last 3 years or more. We're just trying to turn them off more.

[Fumesucker]

3. A forty watter is at Home Depot right now for $20..

Saw it the other day..

FWIW, I carried my CFL lamps with me when I moved, several times now.

[GreenPartyVoter]

119. That's what our kids are using in their gooseneck clamp bed lamps. I was tired of

worrying about hot incandescents, and the lead in the CFLs. (They've been known to have a pillow fight or two.)

This seemed like a reasonable alternative, and so far no complaints after a couple of years of use.

[NNN0LHI]

4. ...

[Historic NY]

16. +1

[seaglass]

26. Really? Wouldn't it have been easier to not click on the thread instead of leaving this demeaning

remark?

Or are you just a mean person?

Why don't you send me your email address so I can run discussion topics through you before I post?

[NNN0LHI]

40. I am really sorry

I was trying to make a joke.

I apologize sincerely.

Don

[seaglass]

65. Sorry, I don't know you and am used to a lot of mean people on this site.

And I clearly didn't get the joke. :-( all is forgiven.

[FarLeftFist]

5. $20/bulb isn't that bad, it comes out to $1/year, plus lower electrical costs.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Where Are The 15.1% Of Americans Who Live Under The Poverty Line

Where are the 15.1% of Americans who live under the poverty line going to get $20.00 to pop for a light bulb. For many of them it will be back to candles.

[FarLeftFist]

19. Subsidies for low income housing and citizens.

Energy vouchers. Also, lets work on lowering that percentage.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. As Long As It's Not An Undue Burden I Support It

But every expense, even the most trivial ones, are burdens when you are poor.

[FarLeftFist]

23. I completely understand. Low income buildings could buy in bulk and save while homeowners could

possibly write it off on taxes, keeping the receipts.

[msongs]

27. give up cigarettes, alcohol, and soda nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. In What Parallel Universe Does Your Average Broke Person

In what parallel universe does your average broke person spend money on "cigarettes, alcohol, and soda"?

[On the Road]

44. Are You Kidding?

Of the poor people I know, seems like that's *all* they spend their disposable income on.

I guess there are different kinds of poor people.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. I Have Been Down To Twenty Nine Dollars

I wish I had the disposable income for a smoke to calm my nerves and a bottle of Jack to make me forget my problems.

[FrodosPet]

66. Get some cheaper booze!

With $29, you could get a pint, a pack of Bugler or Kite, AND a twenty sack of 'dro, if you are a smart shopper.

[On the Road]

70. I Do Not Doubt That You Spend Your Money Wisely

and when I had almost no money, I didn't waste it on those things, either. But having rental properties in a poor neighborhood is an eye-opener.

There seems to be a perception of DU that negative stereotypes of the poor are fabricated out of whole cloth. All those stereotypes are real. They're just not true of everyone, and acting as if they were is bigotry and results in bad policy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. The Ironic Thing Is That I See The Homeless Spend Money On Cigs, Booze, And Soda

I guess when things like an actual apartment are unavailable it makes sense to spend what little money you hsve on items that can help you escape.

[On the Road]

76. It's Really Amazing

When I had absolutely no money in a strange city and only a broken down car, I got two waiting jobs and slept in the car for a week until I had $300 in tips and could move into a rooming house. I spent almost no money until I had enough to fell slightly comfortable.

People in this part of Baltimore seem to have the philosophy "spend it if you have it." With that guiding principle, they are bound to be constantly broke no matter how much is coming in.

I have a handyman from Guatemala (legal resident) who is single and in his 50s. I like and respect him. He is a trained electrician, honest, and does good work most of the time. I pay him $15/hour cash. He recently worked over a week on a big project and I paid him $700 at once. Two days later, he needs more money because that's gone. He called me once at 8AM on a Sunday and asked for half a days' pay. He said he was at a bar and had met a really beautiful woman. I assume she was a prostitute and he was still there from the previous night. I understand he does not have a high salary, but whatever he does have is gone almost immediately.

This kind of thing seems crazy to me. It's not universal, but it's very, very widespread, and any approach to poverty or working class has to take it into account.

My grandfather owned a fence and ironwork company and had the same issue with his employees -- they would get paid on Friday, drink all weekend and ask for an advance on Monday. He hated to turn them down because some of these men had families. His solution was to change payday to Tuesday -- that made it more likely that the money would be used for food and rent.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. Wow

I was really referring to the homeless who have nothing much more than pocket change. The gentleman you are referring to , in a perfect world, he would spend his money wisely.

[On the Road]

88. There is a Whole Cycle of Poverty

It's often depicted as a racial thing, especially by bigots, but it cuts across all races. If anything, the hillbillies are the worst.

Sometimes the strategies show some foresight and cleverness. A wife rents an apartment based on her own income. She then moves in her husband who has no credit and a prison record along with three other familiy members and one of her husband's drug-dealing friends. After moving in, they pay no rent, wait several months for the rent court process to go through, and move out one day before the sheriff is scheduled to come for the eviction, leaving a mountain of trash and discarded furniture and clothing behind. Some variation of this happens over and over and over. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who work two jobs and try as hard as they can to pay the rent. (In that case, I try to make allowances.)

There is a different psychology to generational poverty. For example, the accusations of people staying on unemployment as long as possible are absolutely true. It may be irrelevant to policy, because there are lots of people who DO want to work as long as jobs are available, but it does no good to deny that it exists.

People also take advantage of disability. I have at least two tenants now who as far as I can tell have no reason to be on disability -- one is a cute young mother and the other a big scary-looking lug who's actually kind of a sweetheart. Both were able to get an SSI check through a lawyer for a diagnosis of depression or something similar. They are both unskilled but appear perfectly functional. In the long run, it locks these people into never developing the ability to support themselves. I have constant inquiries from people with $700/month SSI checks who simply don't make enough to even afford a furnished room.

Sometimes people seek SSI because of a criminal record that makes getting a job very difficult. I understand their opportunities are limited and they are doing whatever they need to do to get by, and don't begrudge them the money. I'm actually glad for them to get more since it helps them pay the rent.

European countries have this issue too -- there are jokes in Germany about Schwabians telling Jesus "don't heal me -- I have two weeks of disability left." But it makes it more difficult to set good policy. For Medicaid and other programs to be sustainable, there have to be ways to limit the program to those who are really disabled rather than those who have the best lawyers.

I don't know what the solution is. But to me it's important to see it clearly.

[NashVegas]

96. Homeless People Don't Buy Lightbulbs

Just an observation.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

113. Not All Poor People Are Homeless (Thank God)

.

[lonestarnot]

116. Yet.

[XemaSab]

120. I dated a rich guy once

who said "People spend what they take in."

Based on the lifestyle that HE lived, I don't doubt it for a minute. We're talking a weekend in Vegas and a weekend spent skydiving every month, plus three meals out every day and a $2000 a month apartment.

Meanwhile, I think that a person making minimum wage should be able to afford movies for two and a pizza once a month, plus coffee every morning, plus 12 beers a week. In my neck of the woods, that's close to $100 a month, or near 10% of a minimum wage income.

[JustAmused]

99. Yep

And obviously different kinds of Democrats too.

[Honeycombe8]

47. Under the new law (which will probably be overturned), incandescents will still be

available in 60W, 40W, etc. Just not 100W and greater, I think. CFLs will still be available; CFLs cost several dollars for a bulb and last a lot longer than incandescent (altho I've found they don't usu. last as long as the box says...neither do incandescents).

But the bill will probably be overturned. A bill has been introduced to overturn it, and I read it has Republican and Democratic support.

In the meantime, just in case, I started buying 100W incandescents...the bulb I use with a couple of dimmer-switch ceiling fixtures. (CFLs don't work well with dimmers.)

[seaglass]

62. I thought I heard last night that the plan was to phase out all incandescents over time starting

with the 100 watt.

I am not against this bill by any means but I don't understand why they aren't working harder to lower the costs of the new bulbs before this starts.

[Honeycombe8]

82. CFLs DO have lower costs than they used to. No one has to buy LEDs. Besides,

LEDs aren't great for everything. I was reading about them in Consumer REports. They sound promising, but are not worth the cost, even after considering the savings in electricity, I THINK it said.

Just like anything, the cost goes down after introduction. CFL bulbs, laptops, flat panel TVs, etc.

In the meantime, buy CFLs. I also am buying enough 100W incandescents for my dimmer switch fixtures (I only have two, so I don't need many incandescents to last for years.)

The dimmer switches work great. The incandescent bulbs last for a looooong time, I guess because I rarely turn the switch to its full brightness.

[NutmegYankee]

89. If a state is like Connecticut, they will be subsidized.

I can buy the 20W CFLs for $1.50 each as part of the CT Energy Efficiency Fund effort. Every store has a few models discounted.

[pitohui]

117. candles mean fire

tiresome enough the drug users starting fires but i've had fires in my old (poorer) neighhorhood before from people using candles because of their power being out

it wouldn't be worth your life to live in multi family (apartment) housing, it's pretty unbearable NOW, one apartment i lived in was burned down with loss of life not that long after we managed to escape and god knows this crap must happen all over the country all the time

anything that has more people using candles and open flame means more dead people

however, will freely admit i don't believe the light bulbs will be $20!!! and if they are the landlords will be expected to provide them, just as they provide other things, like heat (sometimes) air conditioing (sometimes anyway) access to running water...

[xmas74]

123. Not always access to running water.

I had a landlord who refused to fix a broken pipe in our trailer. We had no running water. I had to fill up old pickle buckets every day just to have water to bathe in, cook with, and flush the toilet.

It took me a couple of months to save enough money to move me and my kid to another run down rat hole. At least that hole had running water, even if it had cracked windows that allowed the heat to escape.

[Honeycombe8]

51. CFLs don't cost $20, where I live. They cost several dollars for one with a fairly

high wattage output.

I pay a lot more for mine because I get the ones that have 3 levels of light. Even so, they're not $20, even for those!

[Johnson20]

7. Thats about $2.60 a year

Assuming a price of $40 and a 15 yrs life. Its the initial "sticker shock" that folks are going to have to get over.

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. There's also the blue light spectrum

that most of these bulbs have. If you are vision impaired that can be a big deal.

[seaglass]

12. They did mention that they had yellow light LEDs that gave off light

like incandescents. Don't know if they are on the market yet or if they would help you.

[Scruffy1]

85. I don't understand Americs infatuation with tungsten lighting,

Tungsten lights are about 3200k. Sunlight is generally described as 5600K, though it can vary quite a bit in differenet parts of the sky. It's laughable to me that consumers keep trying to match tugsten, since to me it's really crappy for working or reading. i think its just we are used to it.

[Scruffy1]

87. A quick search of Amazon found the price of $12.75 to 27.00 for a 60 watt equivalent LED.

So if we use a price of $20.00 and calculate the cost over 10,000 hours at 10 cents per kilowatt we get:
For the incandescent we get a price of about 50 cents. I usually get around 1000 hours or less out of cheap bulbs.

so 10 bulbs at $.50 x 10= $5.00
10,000 hours = .060kw=600kwh x$.10=$60.00

For the LED we have one bulb at $20.00 and an energy usage of about 10% of an incandescent.
10,000 hours x .0060= 6kw x $.10=$.60 for a total of $20.60.

So for a light left on all the time 24x365 = 8760 so savings per year is .87x times the difference or about $40.00x.87=$34.80.
I know the 10 cent per kilowatt figure is high for some, but if yours is like mine about 8 cents just subtract 20 per cent from energy costs.
I have no idea if we can get an average use figure for light bulbs, but even if it took five years to pay the cost
of the bulb on saving it would still five me a return of about $4.00 per year on a twenty dollar investment or a 25% ROI.Your results will vary.and I just woke up so check my numbers. As for me I'm installing them in lights that are on a lot.

[Coyote_Bandit]

86. I've been looking for yellow light LEDs here locally

after another DUer mentioned them. Haven't found any here as of yet.

[Johnson20]

25. Gosh, never heard of that.

Guess I had better do some reading.

[Honeycombe8]

49. Also, did you know that DOGS can see the flicker in CFL lights?

Their flicker is so much slower than incandescents, I read, that when a dog sits around a CFL light, it actually sees the flicker, which can be stressful for a dog.

Imagine if you were sitting for hours under a flickering light? Very unnerving.

I still use CFLs, but I keep them off during the day when I'm gone, and I use them only when necessary at night. I still use a couple of incandescents in fixtures with dimmer switches, and I rarely turn those lights up to the high level of the switch.

[hunter]

104. Old fluorescents with magnetic ballasts did.

I haven't seen them sold for years. The flicker on those drove me crazy, but then again, I may be a dog.



The flicker rate of electronically ballasted fluorescents is far above anything humans or dogs can see, but malfunctioning or cheap electronic bulbs may have a noticeable secondary flicker.

[seaglass]

11. Yes that is correct and what freaked me out a bit. For many though I don't think it will be

affordable.

[Coyote_Bandit]

8. I'm vision impaired

and poor and live in an old house with fixtures that do not accomodate the new bulbs particularly well - and I'm stocking up on incandescent bulbs.

[SmileyRose]

101. You may see better with CFLs

My uncle is vision impaired and need an extraordinary amount of light to see much of anything. Reading was out of the question. All his lamps had harps too short to accommodate a 100W equivalent CFL so he started one at a time buying shades that did not need a harp - the kind that sit down on the socket - all in bright white fabric. It is just astonishing how much light it gives off - FAR more than even the 200-250W incandescent. He can now read extra large print with a magnifying glass. Although it looks like a lot of work he's in heaven.

[Literate Dragon]

13. Lifespan is key

The LEDs cost more than incandescents but you hardly ever need to change them. It's not just that they use less electricity but they also last much, much longer. A 100-watt incandescent might need to be replaced three to six times a year, while I have had the fluorescent replacements, which use 25 watts to generate the same light output, last for two years or more. So in effect drop the initial price from $20 to $2.50 (because you're buying the equivalent of eight incandescents on the average), and then slice your light bill by 75% over two years and subtract that from the price.

[InvisibleTouch]

17. I need some incandescents...

...for the heat they generate, to use as basking lights for some of my terrarium pets. I do seem to have to replace them every time I turn around, but it only costs a few cents to do so. If the led lights give off comparable heat and last 10 years, I'd make the investment. Otherwise, I will stick with cheap incandescents for my heat bulbs as long as I can.

I use CFL's for everything else, but I don't particularly like the light spectrum they give off.

[blogslut]

20. LEDs don't really generate heat

Sorry about that.

[localroger]

52. I predict there will be a market for non-luminous heaters

...in incandescent bulb form factor, for all those chick incubators and reptile terrariums that use light bulbs as a heat source. Since they won't be light bulbs they won't be affected by the ban, and since their heating elements won't work at such a high temperature they will last much longer, which will offset the fact that they will be more expensive due to no economies of scale.

[SoCalDem]

21. I did not like the light spectrum either, BUT I recently found some with

differences in "color".. We bought some of the "warm" ones & we like them very much:)

[ellenfl]

28. haligens get hot too. i just bought an led desk lamp for $16 at

office depot.

i have been using fluorescent light bulbs for 20 years or so and cannot remember the last time i had to replace a bulb. i particularly like that they do not get hot. i would have no problem changing to led. buy them one at a time if you cannot afford the initial expense of replacing all bulbs. as soon as walmart gets their chinese shipment of leds, the price will come down. :eyes:

ellen fl

[Honeycombe8]

45. My CFLs get hot. Not as hot as incandescents. Halogens get WAY hot! Not for me! LEDs...

I think I read that they don't generate much heat, which would make me very interested in them, since I live in a hot area.

[DireStrike]

64. Don't they sell special neodymium coated bulbs for that?

Or will those become illegal too?

[InvisibleTouch]

68. I think bulbs specifically for heating animals will still be available...

...but they're quite pricey, and really do the same thing as a plain old 60-watt incandescent. And don't last any longer, either.

For ultraviolet light you need a full-spectrum fluorescent tube, and that will be the same as ever, but my concern is with providing heat at a reasonable cost.

[WingDinger]

24. They should be givne tax writeoffs. And where they will really shine is for Med Mar. cultivation.

A coupla thou watt LPS lights cost a lot on bill, and produce heat{bad} and are marginally safe for regular house/condo wiring.

[jmowreader]

84. Another problem with LPS lighting...

It has a unique turn-on electrical signature, and the cops know what it is. In some places, the cops have power line analyzers; if they think you're growing weed in there, they can hook a power line analyzer to your service entrance cable, wait a day or so for the LPS to switch on, and use the presence of that signature on your power line to justify a search warrant.

So...if you're growing weed under sodium lighting in your house, plug your lights into an UPS. An uninterruptible power supply, which has a battery charger, a battery bank and an inverter to power the load, will absorb the crap your lights put out and keep you safe.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

111. One thing to do is to buy a welder..

and learn to use it. That will spike the electrical usage.

When they come to the front door with a warrant they could see the nice welding you learned and leave (hopefully).


Just a thought....

[jmowreader]

114. That won't work

They're not looking just for you to use a lot of power, but HOW you use it.

Grow lights probably run eight hours per day, continuously. When you weld, you start and stop.

[DainBramaged]

29. You're being swayed by the fear-mongering of the Right

The bulbs SAVE HUGE MONEY and are what we call PROGRESS, not only that, the more they make, the cheaper they become.

[seaglass]

31. I am? Only rw people worry about how much things cost?

Sorry $20-$40 is a lot of money for a light bulb and I am cynical, if they can condition people to accept the price of $20 a light bulb why the hell would they bring the costs down substantially and reduce their profits?

Of course I understand that they are more efficient and better for the environment but the price is high. That is my comment.

Frankly I COULD afford to replace every light bulb in my house but I'm not thinking of me, I'm thinking of my college age kids, my fixed income parents and relatives and a whole heckuva lot of other people that struggle to make ends meet.

At least I have one more item I can leave my kids in my will. :-)

[DainBramaged]

33. I stand by what I said

[seaglass]

34. well I guess we'll find out...how many years from now? meet you back here :-) n/t

[librechik]

30. I get 2 bulbs for 20 dollars at the local sams

save them for spots where the lights get left on, like the front porch and so on. I replaced 2 bulbs per month for a few months until I had my dark shadows covered. The technology is not all that good for anything but low light situations, IMO, but they are good for that.

[Honeycombe8]

37. LEDs? Or do you mean CFLs? They're different. I haven't seen LEDs; I use CFLs, tho. nt

[librechik]

91. LEDs. I have CFLs almost everywhere else already

[Mariana]

35. "When people move from one place to another..."

LOL, I've already done that with my CFL's.

[Honeycombe8]

36. The Repubs have a bill in the house, I think, to overturn that bulb law.

I think there are enough Dems who will vote to overturn it. It's what I've read, anyway.

In the meantime, I've purchased 100 watts in advance. I use them ONLY in light fixtures with dimmers; CFLs don't use dimmers well, if at all (I've bought some that supposedly work in outlets with dimmers, but they didn't, so returned them). I already use CFLs in non-dimmer fixtures.

The dimmers work so well in the fixtures where I use incandescents, that I have found that one 100-watt bulb will last me several years. So I don't need very many 100 watters to last me the rest of my life, since I use incandescents sparingly, with dimmers, as I said. Problem solved, whichever way the law goes.

[TwilightGardener]

38. My CFL outdoor light by my garage door just burned out after less than a year.

What a waste of money. I hate those damn things.

[Honeycombe8]

42. I have had a CFL as my porch light for several years now. It's a yellow bug light.

The CFLs don't normally last as long as they're advertised (neither do the incandescents), but my porch light sure has. I think it's at least 4 years old. They didn't make CFLs yellow for a long time, then when they did, they were too big to fit into my fixture. But finally a few years ago, they started making a small curley-cue one that fit. It's been great.

[TwilightGardener]

46. Yes, I have CFL recessed lighting in my kitchen that seems to have

some sort of shell over it to make the light more yellow. It's better than the regular fluorescent light, but one of them burned out a few weeks ago--lasted about a year. I was out of CFL replacements, so I stuck in an incandescent bulb that the previous homeowners had left in a laundry room cupboard, and in comparing the light, they look pretty much the same. So they're getting better, but it's hit/miss on how long they last. Still not a fan.

[Honeycombe8]

50. Hmm. Well, maybe I lucked out on the one I got. It's GE, I think. It's specifically for

porches, I think. It's an outdoor bug light. Before I got this one, I had to replace my porch light every few months (I turn it on and off almost every day.) But no more, so it's paid for itself. Maybe I won't be so lucky next time.

[cyglet]

90. If your CFLs are burning out that early

You have current going through them constantly. Do you have them in outlets that have photo sensors (so that the lights turn on when it gets dark)? The manufacturers print on the box not to use them in these conditions.

Also: Don't use CFLs in dimmers unless they're specifically designed for it. They not only don't work, but it's a fire hazard.
Don't use them with the glow in the dark light switches (low level current).

[NashVegas]

97. As Opposed to Once a Month?

Not bad.

My CFLs are still going, 3-4 years later.

But man, the light's tonal color/hue is fugly.

[Honeycombe8]

39. CFLs (part of the new law) don't cost that much. Don't you use those now? I do...

I spend several dollars for a CFL that equals about 100 watt (I use in my reading lamps). They're supposed to last several years. They don't. I favor the CFLs that have 3-levels of light, but those are more expensive. I forget how much.

I still use incandescents ONLY in fixtures with dimmer switches. I find the dimmer switches are actually MORE useful in extending the life of a bulb than buying CFL. But I live in a hot region, and incandescents put out too much heat to be comfortable sitting under as a reading light.

You can buy CFLs that are brighter white and softer white now. They used to all be the same commercial white.

LEDs are new, I think, and are different from CFLs. I'm wondering if they put out even less heat than CFLs.

[Matariki]

41. I bought an LED that will last essentially forever

$25 for a bulb I'll never have to replace seems fair to me.

[Honeycombe8]

43. I haven't seen LED lights. Where did you get it? nt

[Gari]

53. Try earthled.com - nt

[Matariki]

69. I got it at Lowes. It's a led lightbulb

They work great, last forever and consume less energy.

You can get them online as well:
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=+Atum+Khepri+&btnG=Google+Search#q=led+lightbulbs&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=0rBzToCsAq7SiAK8nYGzAg&ved=0CLUBEK0E&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=f4a039b9452450e7&biw=1634&bih=871

[Matariki]

74. Here's an article that explains LEDs pretty well

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20004887-54.html

I personally think they are *way* better then the compact fluorescents

[Honeycombe8]

83. Thanks. nt

[localroger]

54. Please stop spreading the crap about mercury in CFL's

Please, just stop. The amount of mercury in a CFL is about 4 milligrams. If you collected it together it would make a drop about 1/600 of an inch in diameter -- you probably wouldn't even be able to see it without magnification.

This is not a significant contaminant and the ball only got rolling on that because mercury and other similar chemicals were so abused in other applications that the regulatory people got all booga-booga about it, but seriously when I was a kid nerdy types would pour out several cubic centimeters of Hg and roll it around with our fingers, and I certainly never got cancer from doing that. (It will turn gold jewelry silver in color though, by forming a spontaneous amalgam with the surface gold, which can be a nasty surprise.)

[seaglass]

60. Why is it crap? They contain mercury and at least in my state cannot be thrown away in the trash

because of the mercury. I don't think I said anything about CFLs causing cancer.

So, no it's not crap.

[localroger]

109. Just proof legislators can be stupid. The mercury is trivial.

[Union Scribe]

103. Uh, might want to tell the EPA that.

They're the ones telling people to treat breakages like a friggin' plutonium leak. Can't blame people for listening to the government.

[localroger]

110. I wish someone would tell the. It's STUPID.

[Duer 157099]

55. Costco carries several LED bulbs

I replaced those little bulbs in the kitchen ceiling fan with LED ones I got at Costco and while I don't like the light as much as incandescent, I'll live with it.

The one I really want to replace is the stove hood light, but am not sure if it has to be a special bulb, like the appliance bulbs, so it can tolerate the temperature range. Costco had a 40W LED bulb but I don't know if I could use it for that, but that one bulb gets more use than any other in the house.

[eridani]

56. How will they afford $2/year per bulb? You're kidding, right?

How do people afford cars and cell phones? You are right that people will take them along when moving, just like anything else that they have spent noticable amounts of money on.

[Shandris]

61. Once again, I wonder what fucking planet some of you live on.

I SHARE a one bedroom apartment (yay, my bedroom IS the front room!) with another person. Three rooms and a 4'x8' bath (before cabinet!). Even in this house, and it's dark enough that most people call me a vampire, there are...16 bulbs. If you seriously think I have THREE HUNDRED AND TWENTY DOLLARS just laying around for the fuck of it, you're on the wrong goddamn planet.

"Herpaderp can't afford 2 dollars a year, how do they buy a car herpaderp". Unfuckingbelievable. Wanna trade for a month?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. If You Saw The Income Of Some DUERS When They Do Surveys You Would Understand

.

[ItNerd4life]

80. It's not just that, but they last 10-20 years. Will you get that benefit?

Most renters (or people who own homes) don't stay there for 10+ years. The only way you can get your money's worth
is to take the bulbs with you when you move.

Of course, that's too bad for the new people moving in who then have to get bulbs.

[eridani]

95. You wouldn't leave your microwave, right? Of course you'd take them with

Do you worry about leaving the new tenants without a microwave?

[eridani]

94. You replace them one at a time over an affordable period

I'm better off with respect to living quarters, but I couldn't afford to do it all at once either.

[Shandris]

100. Yeah I agree here of course.

It was the whole presumptuous 'what kind of idiot can't afford such a small amount' attitude that set me off. :) Over a (admittedly long) period of time I'd make the switch, just like I did with CFL's. Although I didn't have quite the track record others seem to, they burn out in about 9-12 months. But, I think that's something in our wiring.

[eridani]

107. Agred. Rereading, it comes off like why don't the poor save by buying things in bulk

Of course you can't. You can't get a reduced price on a 12-pack of LED lights, just like you can't get the 60-pack toilet paper, the big salmon at a reduced per pound price, or bulk hamburger. That's why it's more expensive to be poor, always. Still, the LED problem is solvable over time with gradual replacement. I expect that people will treat them more like microwaves and less like disposable razors.

[Union Scribe]

102. You buy your bulbs on a monthly payment plan?

Because that's how I pay for a car and phone service. And that's how you've divided up the cost of lighting. Crazy, but all this time they've been asking me to pay for light bulbs up front.

[eridani]

106. My phone service is $20/month

Swapping out one incandescent for one LED every three months at $20/month or so would get the job done eventually.

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. LED bulbs are worth the price if you can buy one here and one there until

they're all replaced. 10-20 years....only $1.00 a year if you look at the big picture. :)

I replaced all my outdoor landscape lights with LED bulbs because I was tired of replacing them every few weeks. I installed the LEDs in the Spring and haven't replaced one yet. I also found some replacement LED bulbs for some string lights I have outside. They're shaped like large X-mas bulbs. Not one has burned out. They also make outdoor LED flood lights now too! They look funky because you can see the LEDs, but they're behind lenses so they're acceptable. One of these days I'm going to start replacing all the bulbs in the house. I'm just waiting for the CFLs to burn out..those last a long, long time. If you're interested, Amazon sells a ton of different LEDs...indoor and outdoor bulbs. The wattage you save is amazing!

[exelwood]

58. I question the 10-20 years though...

CFLs were supposed to last 5-7 years but in reality they don't last that much longer than incandescent and no where near five years. It's the turning them on and off that burns them out. Laptop screens and the new TVs are LED and I don't think anyone expects them to last 20 years. Light bulbs live a hard life! :)

[JVS]

63. This sucks. We're getting hosed!

[chillspike]

72. LED lighting in the form of bulbs and even solar lanterns

are going to revolutionize lighting and make it cheaper for people to light their homes. There is no down side to LED lighting.

[JesterCS]

77. where the hell are you shopping?

local Lowes has LED's for $10-$15 a bulb

[seaglass]

79. Haha - I don't buy the light bulbs. As I said in my OP I haven't been paying close

attention and as soon as I heard them talking about starting prices of $35-$40 a light bulb I was blown away as it seemed ridiculous.

(and seriously I do not ever buy light bulbs but I thought they were around $2-$3 apiece).

They also made it sound like CFLs weren't successful in addition to being subsidized so I thought our only choice was going to be LEDs.

[Capitalocracy]

81. Already made the switch here in Argentina.

I'm quite poor. Shelled out for new fluorescent bulbs. Got the yellow light instead of blue light ones. What difference has this made in how well I can see? Absolutely none. And it's been a long time since I've had to buy a light bulb.

I don't see the problem.

[Nye Bevan]

92. Cleanup instructions for CFL bulbs (watch that mercury vapor)

Before Cleanup

* Have people and pets leave the room, and avoid the breakage area on the way out.
* Open a window or door to the outdoors and leave the room for 5-10 minutes.
* Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning (H&AC) system, if you have one.
* Collect materials you will need to clean up the broken bulb:
o Stiff paper or cardboard
o Sticky tape (e.g., duct tape)
o Damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes (for hard surfaces)
o Glass jar with a metal lid (such as a canning jar) or a sealable plastic bag(s)

Cleanup Steps for Hard Surfaces

* Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place debris and paper/cardboard in a glass jar with a metal lid. If a glass jar is not available, use a sealable plastic bag. (NOTE: Since a plastic bag will not prevent the mercury vapor from escaping, remove the plastic bag(s) from the home after cleanup.)
* Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder. Place the used tape in the glass jar or plastic bag.
* Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place the towels in the glass jar or plastic bag.
* Vacuuming of hard surfaces during cleanup is not recommended unless broken glass remains after all other cleanup steps have been taken. If vacuuming is needed to ensure removal of all broken glass, keep the following tips in mind:
o Keep a window or door to the outdoors open;
o Vacuum the area where the bulb was broken using the vacuum hose, if available; and
o Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister) and seal the bag/vacuum debris, and any materials used to clean the vacuum, in a plastic bag.
* Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials, including vacuum cleaner bags, outdoors in a trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly.
o Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your area. Some states and communities require fluorescent bulbs (broken or unbroken) be taken to a local recycling center.
* Wash your hands with soap and water after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing bulb debris and cleanup materials.
* Continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the H&AC system shut off, as practical, for several hours.

Cleanup Steps for Carpeting or Rugs

* Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place debris and paper/cardboard in a glass jar with a metal lid. If a glass jar is not available, use a sealable plastic bag. (NOTE: Since a plastic bag will not prevent the mercury vapor from escaping, remove the plastic bag(s) from the home after cleanup.)
* Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder. Place the used tape in the glass jar or plastic bag.
* Vacuuming of carpeting or rugs during cleanup is not recommended unless broken glass remains after all other cleanup steps have been taken. If vacuuming is needed to ensure removal of all broken glass, keep the following tips in mind:
o Keep a window or door to the outdoors open;
o Vacuum the area where the bulb was broken using the vacuum hose, if available, and
o Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister) and seal the bag/vacuum debris, and any materials used to clean the vacuum, in a plastic bag.
* Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials, including vacuum cleaner bags, outdoors in a trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly.
o Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your area. Some states and communities require fluorescent bulbs (broken or unbroken) be taken to a local recycling center.
* Wash your hands with soap and water after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing bulb debris and cleanup materials.
* Continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the H&AC system shut off, as practical, for several hours.


Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rugs: Air Out the Room During and After Vacuuming

* The next several times you vacuum the rug or carpet, shut off the H&AC system if you have one, close the doors to other rooms, and open a window or door to the outside before vacuuming. Change the vacuum bag after each use in this area.
* After vacuuming is completed, keep the H&AC system shut off and the window or door to the outside open, as practical, for several hours.


http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup-detailed.html

[MattBaggins]

93. last 10 years my ass

they said the same thing about CFLs and they burn out just as quick as incandescent bulbs, that being after they have long since lost their brightness.

[NICO9000]

98. We got a box of 6 curly bulbs from Costco for around $20-25 two years ago

And we haven't needed to use but three of 'em so far. Are these the same bulbs you're talking about?

[sofa king]

112. No, those are compact fluorescents.

Commonly abbreviated as CFLs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp

The LED lamps are the ones described in the article... I think:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_lamp

There are a few other weird-bird technologies that are around, like the sulphur-microwave monsters that may still light the National Air and Space Museum. But it seems most close observers agree that CFLs are only an intermediate step on the way to LEDs.

If you ask me, the real problem is the one light bulb manufacturers have faced since they were invented. It's easy to make a light bulb that doesn't burn out all the time; what's hard is maintaining a business model that can satisfy immediate replacement demand (at first as high as the incandescent bulbs being replaced) and then profitably back off to a fraction of that volume once everyone has them. Traditionally, a predictable fail-rate has been built into the bulbs.

LEDs are pretty nifty right now, but their manufacturing process relies on a process similar to that of other semiconductor products like memory and chips. So I think it's reasonable to expect them to be similar to the life of computer memory: expensive until the manufacturing process goes through several generations of shrinks and improvements, then eventually very inexpensive, maybe ten years or so from now. That's also about the time you'll be trying to stop your daughter from going to the mall with a light-up bra under a t-shirt.

A couple more boxes of the curlies might tide you over until then, if you can find ones that aren't designed to fail sooner than that.

[Trillo]

105. Based upon gross pay of minimum wage, it will take nearly 6 hours of labor to buy

one light bulb?

Seems a bit unreasonable.

[LoZoccolo]

108. I'd probably be apt to buy a $20 LED bulb for the simple fact that

I've seen a CFL burn out and start SMOKING, and accidentally stepped on another one and wondered about what you do now that you've released mercury (it was inside of a plastic bag, so it wasn't that bad) . I've actually gone back to incandescants until they start making the LED ones light enough that I don't worry about them bringing down my ceiling fan with all the extra weight.

[Tallulah]

115. I have LED lights

outside. They burn very little power. If I forget and leave them on I don't panic. I changed them 2 at a time over a year. I have 16 outside. No way I could afford them all in one buy.

I have 2 CFL bulbs in two lamps that haven't been changed in 8 years. I use those lamps every single day.

I'd like to see the prices go down. It should be affordable for everyone. $20 or more for bulbs is obscene.

[sarcasmo]

118. Tried to use some in my bathroom but they had a low hum to them, not acceptable.

[alfredo]

121. This room is lit by LED's. They are low heat too.

I have three LED flashlights. One is solar powered.

[alarimer]

122. so buy a CFL for a couple of dollars.

What's the big fucking deal with incandescents? Why do these people care so much? I've used CFLs for years. I don't really see much difference.
LED's might be the replacement for the future but right now they are expensive.

[seaglass]

124. When I first heard this I thought they were saying they were phasing out CFLs

too because consumers don't like them. That was why I was so shocked by the LED cost, I thought they were going to be the only choice.

[JVS]

125. Instead of looking at this as getting your money's worth after 20 years it might help...

people to understand why others are pissed off about this to imagine what it would be like to be told that you must pay for a 20 year supply of lightbulbs immediately.