Just some thoughts

[Beearewhyain]

I have been a lurker on this board for many a year. I have donated some back in the day but I found that when discussing things my passions could get the better of me so I decided to remain in the background and just read the discussions. I still love this message board; it is an amazing way to stay on top of breaking news and to hear what are the main topics of discussion regarding almost any political topic. The bonus is I occasionally learn a great deal.

The point of this post is that I am disturbed. Not the discussions here, though that has often given me pause, but by what we, as liberals/progressives/Democrats have accomplished in the aggregate. We seem to have all the correct ideas but all the ideas are treated by pop culture as if we should be relegated to some nether world populated by misanthropic ghosts of the New Deal. Herein lays my point; at what point do we realize that the game is rigged?

We constantly complain about the issues of the MSM and the fact that they are reluctant to addresses alternative solutions to our current economic and cultural malaise. Where do we address this other than to complain on some message board and think that by doing so, we have made a difference? We must stop this autoerotic destructiveness!

1) We have to realize that the game is rigged against us in very broad as well as specific ways; comments on various message boards without action in the real world do nothing to promote our cause and in fact, without action, actually does us harm.
2) The popular narrative is not one that favors liberal viewpoints and causes us great harm in that the ideas expressed by that narrative tend toward the conservative. We must stop using the language of the Right and change it! (See Lakoff)
3) We must accept that we have failed in our attempts to change the political discourse with our current strategies. Whatever you may think of the current administration, it is not a modern incarnation of FDR. This is mainly due to the fact that WE have not provided a narrative that they could operate from. In other words, if the popular will was there in the majority the admin would be right there with us.
4) We are the minority. We are the marginalized. We are the truth that won’t be heard. Get over it! We must recognize this fact to be able to overcome it. We are much like those African Americans previous to the Civil Rights Act who broke the boundaries of excellence (do I really have to list them?); we have to be that much better than the best to make ourselves known.
5) And finally we have to recognize that we have done a terrible job in building communities. We talk a good game about collective action but we don’t, in the aggregate, build communities

Now I would be a horrible commenter if I just listed the problems without offering solutions. The solutions are actually harder than the list of problems in that it takes getting up and doing something.

1) Start building a local social network of like minded political friends (NOT ONLINE) that meet regularly. Knowing that you have real world friends that share your views strengthen your resolve.
2) Back your friends up. It is well too often that I see either online or off that liberals back away from conflict. We have to get used to conflict
3) Don’t be a dick. When getting into it with someone we have to avoid the stereotypes that have been laid for us. Sure the stereotypes are unfair and unrealistic but let us not add to the narrative. This is not because of the person we are debating but for the person(s) who is listening.
4) Don’t believe you can convert those from the hard right. It is always tempting to try and debate those on the right but ultimately it is a futile exercise. They have already made up their mind and they hold it like a religious dogma. While tempting it will be futile and unproductive.
5) Change the narrative any chance you get. When you hear someone use a term that is straight out of the MSM, change it. (Death tax, entitlements etc.)
I am just posting a few thoughts that I have and I would not be surprised that if it is met with derision but for those few of you who happen to see merit to this post please let me know.

B

[bbgrunt]

1. you make some great points. One thing I would

say about those who post such thoughtful points is that they serve to educate us all. The education process is essential and internet interaction is a great resource to test ideas and philosophies.

That being said, there comes a point of diminishing returns and there is nothing that can trump action and getting to know your neighbor.

[Beearewhyain]

2. Good points or not it is about community

I see that there is so many current social structures that support the conservative view, whether that be the local chamber or the evangelical church on the corner but there is little to support, presently, liberals.The thing that I have found amusing, yet disturbing, is that Conservatives talk about individuals yet act very well collectively and liberals talk about acting collectively yet act very individualistically.

[bbgrunt]

3. yep, and they decry evolution yet advocate social darwinism.

[Nay]

7. IMHO, this area is where liberals have seriously failed. Specifically, rich liberals.

Where is our version of the Koch brothers? The Walmart clan? No rich liberal bunch has started a foundation to fund think tanks, its own newspapers and TV network, elections of Dem dogcatchers and sheriffs, etc. When the pubs said 30 yrs ago they were going to start taking over everything from the bottom up, they weren't kidding. They did, and that's why we're in this position now. Unfortunately, we don't have 30 years of our own to try to imitate their success -- as others have mentioned, we are staring peak oil/global warming/economic chaos in the face, and, to me, it's actually 'game over.' And they wrong people won.

One mistake liberals made was to assume the best of people -- to assume that most were intelligent enough to figure out their own interests, to see through propaganda, to want to improve. Large numbers of people are easily led to be fearful, paranoid, warlike and tribal. Our mistake was that we did not realize that and did not use a propaganda organ to reinforce our beliefs in the dozens of ways that the pubs have used theirs.

[Nay]

8. IMHO, rich liberals dropped the ball 30 yrs ago when pubs said they

were going to take over everything piece by piece, from the ground up. We should have believed them and done the same thing,starting 30 yrs ago.

Where is our version of the Koch brothers? The Walmart clan? No rich liberal bunch has started a foundation to fund think tanks, its own newspapers and TV network, elections of Dem dogcatchers and sheriffs, etc. When the pubs said 30 yrs ago they were going to start taking over everything from the bottom up, they weren't kidding. They did, and that's why we're in this position now. Unfortunately, we don't have 30 years of our own to try to imitate their success -- as others have mentioned, we are staring peak oil/global warming/economic chaos in the face, and, to me, it's actually 'game over.' And the wrong people won.

One mistake liberals made was to assume the best of people -- to assume that most were intelligent enough to figure out their own interests, to see through propaganda, to want to improve. Large numbers of people are easily led to be fearful, paranoid, warlike and tribal. Our mistake was that we did not realize that and did not use a propaganda organ to reinforce our beliefs in the dozens of ways that the pubs have used theirs.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. Very interesting observation.

Thanks. :)

[Faux pas]

4. Just some

Great thoughts! Thank you for sharing them.

[defendandprotect]

5. Capitalism is a rigged system --

When the criticism of New Deal and liberal concepts comes from the White House and the

president -- it should NEVER be ignored -- and no one here should permit it to be IGNORED

nor fogotten -- !!


While there is recognition that our corporate-press is rigged -- it's not a complete enough

understanding -- posters here will complain -- but they continue to watch --

and when it comes to quesitoning 9/11, they don't want to accept the role that MSM played

in this "false flag" operation -- or the cover up --

So they believe corporate-press is lying, but they sitll expect the truth from it! Amazing!

Yet, many of us have tried to bring government and the press to accountability -- certainly

over the last 20-25 years. Many continue to try to do so.

Meanwhile, as in so many other issues, we continue to be undermined by corporate buying of

government -- we've seen this collusion -- sadly from Clinton to Obama!


3) We must accept that we have failed in our attempts to change the political discourse with our current strategies. Whatever you may think of the current administration, it is not a modern incarnation of FDR. This is mainly due to the fact that WE have not provided a narrative that they could operate from. In other words, if the popular will was there in the majority the admin would be right there with us.

Whoa -- the WILL OF THE PEOPLE has been made very clear --

74+% of Americans -- 83% of Catholics -- want government-run health care -- MEDICARE4ALL

80% of the public want an end to the wars --

Enormous support for Social Security and Medicare --

Huge support for taxing the rich --

including raising the FICA cap --

94% of Americans would like to live under a system like Sweden's -- !!


We have failed to change things because we are voting for candidates who are pre-bribed and

pre-owned by corporations - !!

We have failed because of 40 years and more of voting for "the lesser evil" which only moves

the Dem Party and its candidates and the Congress further to the right!


4) We are the minority. We are the marginalized. We are the truth that won’t be heard. Get over it! We must recognize this fact to be able to overcome it. We are much like those African Americans previous to the Civil Rights Act who broke the boundaries of excellence (do I really have to list them?); we have to be that much better than the best to make ourselves known.
5) And finally we have to recognize that we have done a terrible job in building communities. We talk a good game about collective action but we don’t, in the aggregate, build communities

Don't know where you've gotten these ideas .... ? I'd like to know, actually -- !!

However ...

Liberals are the majority -- we are a huge voting bloc -- and this is a liberal nation --

If that weren't true there would be no need for corporations to have to buy government or to

put forth candidates who lie to the public --

Nor would there be any need for corporations/capitalists to buy and control our press -- !!

But they do have to do these things because this is a liberal nation --

and because every iota of truth is a threat to them -- like a pebble hitting a mirror -- it

shatters their myths/lies!


1) Start building a local social network of like minded political friends (NOT ONLINE) that meet regularly. Knowing that you have real world friends that share your views strengthen your resolve.

Problem with that solution is that Amereicans aren't political -- but are only slowly waking up.

Most of the politally aware are on the internet! And that's where the info is which is waking

everyone up.

However, the chaos that Global Warming is creating and economic problems -- energy problems --

which are draining citizens and local communties is beginning to bring citizens together as they

are forced to acknowledge what is happening. We need to get off the grid and return to locally

based energy, food supply.


Agree with you about the shyness about "confict" -- too often liberals don't want to push their

ideas on others -- all law is based on common sense -- and there is too little of it these days.


Also agree with trying to "convert" anyone on the right -- including RW Dems -- there are few

of them at this point -- and I would give them far less attention than they get here.


As far as RW talking points -- we all have to realize that this is RW propaganda too often

based in a Goebbels' style corporate-press -- and, yes, the Nixon WH was studying Nazi proapganda

and the same families and corporations who supported Hitler/Nazis have control over our

corporate-press --


We don't have a lot of time to waste anymore -- the biggest threat to us is Global Warming and

everyone has to begin to understand that -- it is an enormous threat.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

6. K&R

[malaise]

9. Good post

Rec

[MisterP]

10. even better, we're not usually in the minority

65-75% consistently want to raise taxes on the rich rather than cut Social Security and Medicare, real public option instead of a corporatist stickup, not having soldier acquaintances coming home screaming every night
propaganda may be pervasive but it's often shallow
show them the story about how 40% of people who got Federal bennies don't think they've ever gotten $ from Washington
the problem for the national party, of course, isn't that it's "lost the framing" but that it's pushing Republican policies and then warping American politics by sending out its flacks to say that they're victories for liberalism. They're pandering to the 15% of the country that follows Murray Rothbard and Pamela Gellar--because that's the belief of the billionaires they openly serve.

[tkmorris]

12. K&R to check later. Have dentist appt

Great post though.

[Beearewhyain]

13. Sorry for the late reply

but have not been able to get the time to post today.

I see that there are disagreements with my analysis and I think that the points have some validity though I still stand by my original assertions. Questions about the will of or the preferred policy direction of the general population still don't address why we have failed to implement those polices in a broad and consistent ways. This would be why I would refer back to the broader narrative as being a great hindrance to our aims. There is not a day that goes by that I don't hear talk from all sides that reflect the largely conservative viewpoint. Whether it is talk of class warfare, government programs or ideas of the relationship between the individual and the state, there is broad cynicism that government can't do anything correctly. Herein lies the essence of the situation; if our collective cynicism has run so high as to always default that government can not accomplish anything properly, we will only keep getting the government doing, at best, half measures, if anything at all.

We have abandoned the idea that government (which good are bad is us)action can address our most difficult problems. This I would like to change and I think that it will take a concerted effort, beyond the internet, to make these things real.

B