Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why do we have so many people in jail?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:18 PM
Original message
Why do we have so many people in jail?
I am aware that the number of people we have imprisoned is alarming. I do not know the base cause of it. I am aware of some of the problems that might cause some effect, things like private prison ownership and operation, poor public education, poor public health and mental health services, things like that, but I think those things are just ripples in the pond. I want to know where the water comes from. And this too, and I don't know if this is based on fact or not - because who can tell anymore - but isn't Canada's crime rate much lower than ours? Well, why?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Cool Logic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's simple...we have so many people in jail because we have so many unConstitutional drug laws.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. So that they can be slave labor for corporations. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Bingo!
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. We put more people in jail for frivolous offenses than any country in the world most likely
It has been repeatedly shown that rehab and therapy could solve the vast majority of the repeat offenders that show up in jail. Private prisons thrive on this U.S. attitude of ignorance of scientific evidence and make bank because of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. If non violent offenders were put on home confinement
instead of being incarcerated it would remedy so many budgetary concerns. But no politician wants to be perceived as soft on crime.

Draconian mandatory sentencing requirements haven't helped at all and rates of recidivism are outrageously high.

The system is broken and it speaks horribly of our culture or rather, our lack thereof.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. War on drugs. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. prison planet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Because we're a very vengeful society.
Even a few days reading DU will show you plenty of posts advocating huge prison terms for crimes that would only get you a few years in most countries. We are a nation that screams for suffering instead of rehabilitation.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
30. I agree!
Also, the U.S tends to use prisons to address social problems that other countries address using social support programs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. Great post. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. because private prisons make it profitable
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. Because it's immensely profitable for important people and corporations. (NT)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Claudia Jones Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. racism
Bigger and More Dangerous Than the New Jim Crow

by Alan Gilbert

"Though formally a democracy, the United States is also the biggest (racist) police state in the world."

As I have written about here and here, Michelle Alexander has a striking book, The New Jim Crow, which identifies how many poor people, black, Latino and white, are involved with the prison system and has spoken widely with high school students, in law schools and churches about what the problem is and how to fight it. This year at the American Political Science Association, the magnitude of the problem was beginning to draw the attention of many political scientists. Note also that the issue of mass incarceration is beginning to surface among serious conservatives and libertarians (see the Economist's review of Ernest Drucker's A Plague of Prisons and Scott Horton’s post on Bernard Harcourt).

...

From 300,000 prisoners in all American prisons in the early 1970s, Alexander shows, there are now 2.3 million. This eightfold increase has been triggered by the so-called war on drugs, enforced especially heavily in black communities (lots of people banished into the prison system never to get out for victimless crimes) and by the “tough on crime,” lengthy sentences advocated by Republicans and some Democrats and now mandated by law. As Alexander emphasizes, these sentences are not just for a particular crime – do your time and be made whole, a full citizen again. Instead, drug felons, particularly black ones, are often denied the right to vote afterwards. They are not able, with a jail record, to get jobs in the outside world (they have to survive through family and personal connections). They cannot live in public housing and are subject to fear and discrimination by private landlords. They are continually supervised in the parole system and thus, much more likely to be returned to jail if for example, depressed, they miss a meeting.

...

The danger of political isolation in naming this, however, is, as the critics point out, real. This gigantic police system is sometimes called a "prison-industrial complex" except that this misses the broader aspect of probation, of corporate media stigmatization of blacks as "likely criminals," and the like. Like the war complex (the military-industrial-congressional-think tank/academic-corporate media-intelligence-foreign militaries with large scale American aid and so forth complex), this police state complex is far broader, more institutionalized, more subject to a private profit motive (police often appropriate the money and estates from drug confiscations, prisons are increasingly privatized, and the like) and thus harder to change despite its grotesquely irrational, cruel and wasteful aspects than people usually imagine. Further, as we saw in the case of Abu Ghraib where Sergeant Charles Graner had learned torture techniques practicing on blacks in Florida prisons even before he got orders from Donald Rumsfeld (and Bush and Cheney) to practice them on Iraqi prisoners, there is a mutual interplay between prisons abroad and prisons at home (see my Must Global Politics Constrain Democracy? for a broader analysis of this dynamic). To undo this complex, movements from below, for instance, to legalize marijuana and repeal the rigid federal sentences and three strikes and your out state laws (California), are needed. We need apt words to gather a movement. Both Cathy Cohen and Desmond King, who rightly admire and have learned from Alexander's book, have raised a deep question about whether the new Jim Crow is the right term.

more...

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/bigger-and-more-dangerous-new-jim-crow

Incarceration Nation

by Linn Washington, Jr.

Mass Black incarceration is a kind of "punitive backlash" against the gains of the Sixties, and only a "a major social movement" can challenge it. Nowhere on the planet is mass imprisonment more entrenched than in the United States. "The U.S. imprisons more than South Africa did under apartheid." At every stage of the criminal justice system, Blacks are selected for harsher treatment. "In major urban areas almost one-half of black men have criminal records."

The U.S. imprisons more people per capita than any country on earth, accounting for 25 percent of the world's prisoners, despite having just five percent of the world's population. America currently holds over two million in prisons with double that number under supervision of parole and probation, according to federal government figures. Mass incarceration consumes over $50-billion annually across America – money far better spent on creating jobs and improving education.Under federal law persons with drug convictions like Garner are permanently barred from receiving financial aid for education, food stamps, welfare and publicly funded housing.

But only drug convictions trigger these exclusions under federal law. Violent bank robbers, white-collar criminals like Wall Street scam artists who steal billions, and even murderers who've done their time do not face the post-release deprivations slapped on those with drug convictions on their records, including those imprisoned for simple possession, and not major drug sales.

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/incarceration-nation

Time For A Political Response to the Crisis of Mass Incarceration: Join the Campaign To End Mass Incarceration

Bruce A. Dixon

* Because the U.S., with 4.5 % of the world's population, has 25% of the planet's prisoners. We are the world's first prison state.

* Because African Americans, who are one eighth the nation's population, are almost half it's 2.3 million prisoners, and because Latinos, also an eighth of the U.S., are more than a quarter of the locked down.

* Because prisons do not make us safer. Incarceration rates DO NOT match rates of crime or drug use. Whites, blacks and Latinos have nearly identical rates of drug use, but the "war on drugs" is almost exclusively prosecuted in nonwhite and poor neighborhoods. Local police funding is often tied to drug arrests, and nonwhites are universally charged with more serious crimes, convicted more frequently, and sentenced more harshly than whites.

* Because former prisoners are viciously and almost universally discriminated against in housing, employment, health care and the right to vote for the rest of their lives.

* Because if Dr. King were alive today, he too would oppose the prison state the U.S. has become.

We've been writing for years, in Black Agenda Report, and before this, in Black Commentator about how the heinous impact of our nation's policy of mass incarceration is, whether our supposed leaders recognize it or not, the number one problem of Black America. Fully thirty percent of black males between 18 and 30 are locked away. In the depressed inner-city areas of Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Milwaukee, and a dozen other places, more than eighty percent of black males have a prison record by the age of thirty.

Along with many others, we've identified the crisis of mass incarceration as stemming not from poor education, or broken families, not from disproportionate crime and drug use, not from fading morals or a supposed culture of poverty and violence. As legal scholar Michelle Alexander and many others have demonstrated, mass incarceration is a bipartisan political policy, conceived and implemented from the Reagan administration onward, first to build a political coalition on white racism, and afterward to sustain corporate profits, political careers, and socially useful myths.

Like many of you, we've waited in vain for black civic, media, religious and political leaders, our black elite, to come up with a political response to the nation's social policy of mass black incarceration. It's not coming. This kind of fundamental change will not be brought about by the professional political “pragmatists” whose vision is always limited to what they can get through a state legislature, a regulatory board, or the Congress this session.

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/time-political-response-crisis-mass-incarceration-join-campaign-end-mass-incarceration

http://www.endmassincarceration.org/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
duhneece Donating Member (967 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. The NAACP just passed a resolution calling for end to War on Drugs
The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) passed a resolution Tuesday calling for an end to the “War on Drugs” during their 102tn NAACP Annual Convention in Los Angeles, CA.
“Today the NAACP has taken a major step towards equity, justice and effective law enforcement,” said NAACP president and CEO Benjamin Jealous. “These flawed drug policies that have been mostly enforced in African American communities must be stopped and replaced with evidenced-based practices that address the root causes of drug use and abuse in America.”


Consider reading, "The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness"
Michelle Alexander
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
12. If you heard the teabaggers cheering about Rick Perry's death sentence statements
You can figure out why. The death penalty is something the populations votes to have, not something the government decides. The way they get the votes is to scare everyone. A tried and true tactic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. follow the dollar

taxpayers pay ~$4000 per month to house an offender

$4000 goes to vendors, lobbyists, prison construction, profiteers

those entities donate $ to politicians

politicians enact get-tough laws and policies

more people arrested and jailed

back to the top again

IT's A RACKET!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sirveri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think part of the puzzle is authority utilization efficiency and too much law.
Basically, the LEO's are less likely to turn a blind eye and more likely to make an arrest. I attribute this to training. There isn't any reason a cop can't give a person a warning for a speeding violation, but you almost always get a ticket anymore. This is combined with a 'tough on crime' stance that has been adopted since the late 80's by both parties which have added a lot more highly zealous people to the streets. Then we follow this up with too much law. Take the hands free phone law in California, I recently had an associate receive a ticket for this while his car was parked in a parking space, because the law itself is written that the vehicle engine must be OFF. It provides no room for common sense, and combined with an overzealous officer who feels that they must attack everything to the full extent of the law. You then toss this in with the economic issues that typically cause crime in the first place, latent racism, insane drugs laws (symptom of too much law), harsh sentencing guidelines (symptom of authority utilization efficiency), a prison system that doesn't perform actual rehab, and a judicial system corrupted by money from for profit interests. What do you get... You get this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
32. All good points
The only one I'd add is that the U.S has a political culture that is hostile to helping people through the use of social support programs.

The U.S thus uses prisons to punish individuals from socially and economically disadvantaged groups where other countries use social programs to help address these issues.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChillbertKChesterton Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. 1. Insane Drug War, 2. high levels of poverty leading to increased crime
3. The Prison and Law Enforcement Lobbies are some of the most powerful lobbyist groups in washington.
4. Legal corporate slave labor
5. A bloodthirsty culture that relishes in revenge-based justice
6. Inhumane prison conditions that turn petty criminals into drug-addicted gang-members, resulting in a high recividism rate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. I read recently that Private Prison Corporations lobby
Congress for longer sentencing periods which keeps non-violent people in jail longer. They have denied it of course, but I was also shocked to find that prison has become an 'industry' and is on the Stock Market.

If anything needs reform, and so much does, but the prison system is at the top of the list imo.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I agree, privatizing prisons is nothing but legalizing slave labor.
It is as shockingly wrong as torture. And our courts have been corrupted to match.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. Because many well-connected companies and individuals are
making a lot of money in the "prison industrial complex" as a result of the privatization of prisons.

Those prisons are welcome in parts of the country that are depressed, because they also bring jobs, which reinforces the fact that a lot of people make money from imprisoning a lot of other people.

Those who own the companies make huge profits, while the people who work as guards and in other positions for the prisons also have jobs with benefits, which they would not have without the prisons.

Also, the War on Drugs, which is a major driver of prison population growth, enables police departments and other aspects of the criminal justice sysem to make a lot of money and become more powerful, so they, too, have a reason to want to charge a lot of people and keep as many as possible in prison.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Harry J Asslinger Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. Ronald Fucking Reagan.
The War On Drugs and "tough on crime" nonsense took off under Ronald Reagan like a hyper-puritanical bullshit rocket running on money. Wikipedia has an article that covers the bases here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

From the wiki:

Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. Only 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelve-fold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges.



This is what that looks like:





Three strikes laws, mandatory sentencing, severely criminalizing non-violent crime, contriving increased rates of arrest (with the employ of methods of dubious legality) the growing private prison industry (you can buy shares!) and its lobbyists, flanked by prison guards' unions that will oppose any legislation that might reduce incarceration rates, all in a vicious orgy of using humans as capital. And they have the gall to call it Corrections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. +1 and GMTA, i just posted the same thing down thread
welcome to DU! :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Claudia Jones Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. kick
Important topic. Good question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
white_wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. I actually posted an OP on this topic a week or so ago outlining my proposals for prison reform.
Here is a copy and paste from that thread, if anyone wants to see my thoughts on this issue. Let me know what you think:

The U.S. is home to 5% of the world's population and yet 25% of all prisoners in the world reside in the U.S. We have a recidivism rate of 65%, an extremely high percentage. They do a terrible job of rehabilitation, because they are designed to punish, not reform. A few weeks ago when the shootings happened in Norway an article was posted talking about how Norway's prisoners have education opportunities, their own cells, decent food, TV, fitness trainers, etc and yet their recidivism rate is only 20%. Why is that? It is because they focus on solving the root cause of crime and not on trying to beat it out of people like we do. Also, our prisons are so violent they when people go in the often have to join gangs to survive, gangs that are organized along racial lines so that when people get out, not only are they more violent they have became racists. As a final complaint against our system prisoners are pretty much used a slave labor in private prisons.

I have thought of a few reforms that we need to pass. 1. We need to end the private prison system completely. 2. We need to replace our punitive system with a rehabilitative one and focus on teaching prisoners job skills, helping them get GEDs and college degrees. They need to be taught the skills to help them make a living for their family without resorting to crime. People don't' commit crimes because they are lazy or bad, the commit them out of desperation. 3. We need to do something about the violence and gangs in our prison system. Honestly, though I'm not completely sure what to do about this issue. 4. We also need to abolish the death penalty. 5. This one may seem controversial, but we need to abolish the disenfranchisement of felons or at least provide a mechanism for them to apply for the right to vote after they have been out of prison for a few years. If people feel like they have a stake in the democratic process and a say in society they will be less likely to disregard its laws.

I welcome any other suggestions on this issue as I feel it is very important to our society. I know some people may say these polices make me weak on crime, but that's fine I'll accept that label, because I am hard on the causes of crime and I'd rather fix the problems that cause crime than punish people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. Because private prisons use their inmates as SLAVE LABOR.
The New Slavery is very profitable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ronald Reagun
and his "law and order" platform IMHO
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. Because outright slavery is illegal.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arthur3284 Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Too many people don't have a good opportunity to climb the socioeconomic ladder legitimately
So they break the rules. Also, I think mental health services is another biggie. A ton of people in prison have mental health issues and probably wouldn't have ended up in prison if they'd been treated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
28. For profit prisons. Next question? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
29. Racism, classism, profiteering in the 'private' corrections industry
Edited on Fri Sep-16-11 08:31 AM by Blue_Tires
and decades of chest-puffing "Tough on Crime" (both parties) politicians on local, state and federal levels
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Luciferous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. The war on drugs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
33. Calling Michael Moore!
This thread has a lot of really intelligent responses. I wish Michael Moore would take his documentary-making skills to exposing the human disaster that is America's prison system.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
34. Lawyers,police, goverment employees, prisons for profit, counselors for the youths..
Drug abuse and arrests remain our 'at home' business' which can't be offshored! :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dmosh42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-11 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
35. It's all about your net worth! The more you have, the more justice you receive!
Edited on Fri Sep-16-11 08:47 AM by dmosh42
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC