F-16 pilot Heather Penney was ordered to fly a suicide mission on Sept. 11, 2001

[NNN0LHI]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2016162502_sept11pilot10.html

Originally published Friday, September 9, 2011 at 10:05 PM

Ex-fighter pilot recalls her 9/11 suicide mission

By Steve Hendrix

The Washington Post

F-16 pilot Heather Penney was ordered to fly a suicide mission on Sept. 11, 2001, to bring down United Flight 93. "I would essentially be a kamikaze pilot," she recalls 10 years later.

On the Tuesday that changed everything, Lt. Heather "Lucky" Penney was on a runway at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland and ready to fly. She had her hand on the throttle of an F-16 and she had her orders: Bring down United Airlines Flight 93.

The day's fourth hijacked airliner seemed to be hurtling toward Washington, D.C. Penney, one of the first two combat pilots in the air that morning, was told to stop it.

The one thing she didn't have as she roared into the sky was live ammunition. Or missiles. Or anything to throw at a hostile aircraft.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

1. Yikes

:scared:

[tularetom]

2. I've heard so many conflicting stories about those orders

I'm skeptical of everything I read. Even a first person account from a pilot who was there.

[Whiskeytide]

12. Read "Touching History by Lynn Spencer

... Very good account of what happened through the eyes of air traffic control, airline pilots and some military response personnel. I found it credible and very interesting. The "inside job" conspiracy theories don't hold water after you read this. * This really was a group of fanatics that caught us with our collective pants down, further complicated by various rules about live ammunition over civilian air, designated flight sectors, and the like. Eye opening.


* The "Government fucked up and let it happen" theories are still good to go, however.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. Fortunately, the unmarked white CIA plane got to it first and shot it down.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/flight_93.html

[zipplewrath]

4. There were other pilots

Another unarmed pilot explained he figured he'd clip their wing with his and punch out immediately.

[formercia]

5. This story doesn't smell right

Nice to let the potential enemies know that our alert aircraft are ready to scramble without ordnance.

I think this is a cover story because people in this country are not ready to accept the truth about what really happened on 9/11.

[rhett o rick]

10. What in the world do you mean? Dont we know exactly what happened on 9/11?

I suggest waterboarding Cheney to find out.

[krispos42]

23. It's probably common knowledge.

The aircraft that aren't on immediate alert status are not armed. Ordnance is kept under shelter, away from critical areas of the base, and under armor and guard.

[Supersedeas]

67. I got the same impression---the myth of "Let's Roll" feels so much better

[EOTE]

6. Why could that not be done with missiles?

Why was a suicide mission the only way this could be accomplished? I have a really hard time believing this.

[11 Bravo]

8. When ordered to scramble you get airborne ASAP. The two available F-16s weren't fully loaded.

[EOTE]

11. We spend more on our military than just about the rest of the world combined.

And we're stuck like a deer in the headlights when we actually need to defend ourselves? I don't buy it. Not by a longshot.

[11 Bravo]

17. Oh, you don't buy it! Why didn't you say so? That's good enough for me!

(By the way, Michele Bachmann doesn't buy that there's no connection between the HPV vaccine and mental retardation; and she has just as much evidence to support her belief as you do.)

[DisgustipatedinCA]

25. And your evidence?

thank you.

[11 Bravo]

30. My evidence is the words of the two pilots involved. That is "evidence", you know?

Your evidence is ... what? You THINK they're lying? Sorry, Sparky, that doesn't qualify.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

33. I'm not sparky.

And I'm not that gullible.

Thank you.

[indepat]

61. From the movie "Midway," it just doesn't make any sense

Admiral: this scenario doesn't make any sense in the context of junior's August 6th daily intelligence briefing. :patriot:

[PavePusher]

62. Do you know military ROE's for various locations, then or current? n/t

[EOTE]

72. Yeah, apparently the ROEs state that ramming a civilian aircraft so that it crashes is fine.

But shooting it down with missiles is verboten. I buy that entirely.

[PavePusher]

74. Cite, please. n/t

[EOTE]

75. It's called sarcrasm. Of course there's no ROE which states that.

Which is why this whole ridiculous farce is impossible to believe.

[Posteritatis]

9. Launching missiles when there are no missiles to launch is very challenging for some pilots. (nt)

[EOTE]

14. And why were there no missiles?

We spend more on our military than the rest of the world combined yet we were dumbstruck by a few amateurs with box cutters? Can't even scramble planes with actual weapons on board? The story presented seems beyond ludicrous to me. Combine this ridiculous story with Norm Mineta's sworn testimony about Cheney's "Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??" comments and I have extremely little faith (actually zero) of the "official" version of the events.

[treestar]

7. So the country that spends the most on its military

Does not have armed planes to defend the nation itself?

Same country that can drop bombs on Afghanistan and Iraq. Has no bombs or missiles on the planes that defend the country itself?

That pisses me off (or the fact this lady is lying to get gratitude and attention pisses me off. And there is no explanation for why she's still alive).

This country's military does not order suicide missions. You can't be ordered by a military superior to do it. If you can, what's the point of condemning terrorism? We'd be willing to do it too.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. They were not ordering a suicide mission -

they were ordering a mission that would probably end with the pilot's death.

"Stop that jet."
"My plane is not armed."
"Do whatever you have to - stop that jet."

It could be done, as suggested above, by a deliberate collision, and punching out at the last second, or by clipping the jet with the landing gear, causing them to lose control, then punching out - and either of those could not be guaranteed to work and might cause the pilot's death.

And suicide missions are far from rare - they just aren't called that when the orders come down.

[treestar]

36. WWII planes had ejection

At least some of them did. Why wouldn't they have that today?

[PavePusher]

63. Can you guarantee that you can hit a jetliner with a fighter....

and eject in time?

I can assure you that it is far more complicated than you imagine.

[treestar]

76. I don't really know - wouldn't one be able to eject further

away than in old WWII planes, since the plan is going faster?

The physics of it would be do-able by computer.

Anyway, I don't see this as something the US military should require. And wonder why this lady brings it up 10 years later.

[PavePusher]

81. Fighters and their "autopilot"s aren't designed to do anything remotely like that.

And the blast of the ejection motor would likely knock the plane off-course anyway.

What is required is whatever gets the mission done, depending on the urgency of the mission.

When thousands of lives may be at stake... many things become much more possible, likely and contemplatable than you would ordinarily consider.

And we don't, as a general rule, discuss weaknesses in our national defense, in public, until long after they have been remedied.

But what would I know, I've only been involved in military aviation (albeit from the maintenance side) for 20+ years....

[former9thward]

26. Equating taking down a hostile aircraft with terrorist is nonsense.

The commander who gave her the order was the other pilot in the air. He was going to hit the cockpit and she was going to hit the tail. Maybe you should enlist so they will know how to do it next time.

[treestar]

37. Not if they are so out of it in the AF

That they would send me on suicide missions.

I just don't believe that would happen here. Or the person could refuse to go. But nobody should be asked that.

[NightWatcher]

15. Wow theyre really pushing that "no missiles on 9/11" meme

We didn't launch any missiles, hell, we don't have any missiles. What's a "missile"?

Let it go already. There will be no investigation. Some believe one thing, others think something else. Since you're not serious, let it go and move on. (Not you, DU'ers, but those who keep pushing the jingoistic rah rah from that day)

[taught_me_patience]

16. I'd refuse that order. n/t

[Zywiec]

20. Well there are people like you who refuse to do things because of their own safety

You may want to read about the Marine who received the Medal of Honor today.

When he refused an order, it was not about him, but saving his fellow troops.

Dakota Meyer, a Marine who disregarded orders, is awarded Medal of Honor
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2011/0915/Dakota-Meyer-a-Marine-who-disregarded-orders-is-awarded-Medal-of-Honor

[pipi_k]

29. There's kind of a difference...

He wasn't ordered to commit suicide. In fact, he was told NOT to go into the situation.

That's a whole lot different from being told, "You WILL sacrifice yourself".

Piss on that. I don't blame people for not being suicidal.

[Zywiec]

32. "'I didn't think I was gonna die, I knew I was gonna die,'"

Sounds like Dakota Meyer thought it was a suicide mission.

Wonder what the people who stormed the beaches of Normandy thought?

Look, being selfless is not for everyone.

[Fool Count]

39. What, she wasn't trained in operating the "Eject" button?

Sounds like Heather Penney is into self-aggrandizing more than anything. Post factum broadcasting of self-sacrificing pathos from the safety
of one's back porch is the easiest thing in the world.

[pipi_k]

52. Hey, whatever...

I wasn't there.

I don't even know if the story is true or not.

But even if it is, how would anyone know when to push the "eject" button?


Yeah, pushing a button is easy. It's the other things...her speed, wind speed and direction, speed of the other object, altitude, etc., that would have to be figured into the deal. Any of those could change on a dime.

Still suicidal, IMO.

Assuming her story is true...

[jberryhill]

65. "how would anyone know when to push the "eject" button?"

I guess maybe we should hire people to fly planes who are pretty much extensively trained what all of the buttons do, and how aircraft respond to various things.

[NNN0LHI]

66. Ejecting is not a sure thing. About 9 out of 10 pilots who eject survive the ordeal

Kind of like sitting on top of a rocket and shooting yourself into the air is the way it is explained here:

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/aviation/news-ejection-seats-action

Doesn't sound like something I would want to try.

Don

[jberryhill]

73. Being a fighter pilot is hazardous? Who knew?

[PavePusher]

64. It's a little more complicated than pushing a button...

or playing Flight Sim.

Just a little.

[pipi_k]

51. You are right..being selfless...

is likely NOT for everyone.

I can say that the only people I would put myself in danger for are the people I actually love, but then again, I've never been faced with a situation like, for example, getting a guy out from under a burning car.

That Marine did what he did because he cared for his fellow troops, obviously.

It was HIS choice.


Which is a mile off from being told you must single-handedly use your aircraft as a missile to destroy a plane. You are ordered to commit sure suicide.


Those soldiers who stormed the beach at Normandy...I can't say for sure, but I would think that perhaps a form of denial would take over and enable them to carry out their mission. It's not like one guy storming the beach...one obvious target. This was hundreds of guys. Well, I would imagine that it's easier to make oneself think that it will be someone else to get a bullet.

For those not in denial about the bullet for someone else, there may indeed have been a death wish. Or maybe a feeling of Patriotism that transcended fear. Who knows...

But I'm sure we didn't survive as a species by flying like moths into the flame whenever the urge hit. Those who were not "selfless" got to pass on their genes...the ones that select for self preservation.

[NNN0LHI]

54. It wasn't denial that kept the soldiers moving forward at Normandy to carry out their mission

It was out of fear of their officers standing behind them who would have shot the first man who tried to turn around and run.

At least that is what some of the men who were part of that invasion force have told me.

They may have been exaggerating? But I don't think they were.

Don

[pipi_k]

56. Qualifying word there...

"At least that is what some of the men who were part of that invasion force have told me."


"some".


So when you say that "It wasn't denial that kept the soldiers moving forward at Normandy...", you are relating the stories of the some with whom you spoke, and not all.


Which was what I said. Some may have thought one thing. Some may have thought another.

We are both using "some" to make a point.

[Llewlladdwr]

59. You don't get that option in the military.

There are situations in which an individual has to be sacrificed in order to achieve the mission objective. If you're not willing to be told that you need to sacrifice yourself why in God's name are you in the military?

[treestar]

79. So only suicidal people should join the military

Find another way to do whatever the mission is.

By this time, we have sophisticated technology.

[Lizzie Poppet]

80. No, only ones willing to sacrifice themselves for others.

If that's not you, don't join. Seriously.

As far as using "sophisticated technology" to find a better way of accomplishing the mission, that's a wonderful concept, to be sure. However, implementing it on the fly during an emergent situation with minutes to spare isn't something that happens outside of movie theaters, bad adventure novels, and the fevered imaginations in Internet backseat drivers. Just sayin'...

[WilliamPitt]

53. Good thing you're not a fighter pilot.

[FarCenter]

18. According to this timeline, the first two DCANG pilots launched with armed guns, but no missiles

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?day_of_9/11=ua93&timeline=complete_911_timeline

See (9:35 a.m.-11:05 a.m.) September 11, 2001: DC Air National Guard Unloads Missiles and Prepares Jets to Fly, but First Planes Launch with Guns Only

[undeterred]

19. I am always amazed that people volunteer for the military.

[Bluebear]

21. Malarkey

[MadHound]

22. Again, this is a bullshit propaganda story

I've known people who flew defense for this country. The planes they fly are fully fueled, loaded with ammo, ready to "kick the tires and light the fires." These planes have not, and do not, go up without their full compliment of ammo and missiles. It just isn't done.

This is simply another bullshit propaganda story to cover up the simple, but unavoidable fact that we had no planes, no defense force, in the air from the time the planes were first taken over to their tragic endings.

[former9thward]

27. You don't know what you are talking about.

These planes were the only ones available. They did not have time to wait for them to be armed. Anyone who was in the Air Forces, as was I, knows planes do not sit around armed unless they are scheduled to fly. The 9/11 terrorists did not wait for our schedule.

[11 Bravo]

31. Big fucking deal. You were in the Air Force. The person you're responding to saw Independence Day!

He said, "kick the tires and light the fires"! Clearly that's our REAL expert.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

35. enlistment in the military does not confer knowledge

of all military protocol and happenings.

By the same token, not having had military service in one's background does not preclude one from having some knowledge about said military.

Your argument attempts to make the military some homogenous group of people who know everything about the operation of the giant entity that is our military. Your argument also attempts to make you an authority on this, since you were enlisted in 19XX. Well, so was I, and it doesn't mean shit.

[MadHound]

34. Did you fly defense for NORAD?

Did you fly North American patrols? The person I know did. And as he said, as many experts have stated over the years, there are always a set of planes, fully fueled, fully armed, ready to go on a moment's notice.

Thanks, I'll take the word of somebody who actually did the deed, flew the missions, over somebody who was just "in the Air Force," which can cover a wide range of positions ranging from pilot to mechanic to ground crew. What did you do?

[former9thward]

40. You don't get it , do you?

"North American patrols". Which means SCHEDULED flights. If you are a 9/11 nut and think this was staged then I guess someone didn't give these pilots a heads up.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

41. From what I have read the NORAD interceptors were further north

Those 2 F-16 were turning around between training missions, were not part of the NORAD alert pool. They just happened to be there at the time.

[Zywiec]

42. +1

These were just some random pilots launched during an emergency.

[treestar]

38. Why not?

An attack can be unexpected. If that is true of the country that spends more money on its military than any other and more proportionately, then I am pretty pissed off. And so should the people who fly the planes.

[former9thward]

50. ok, killer.

[daleo]

24. She was ordered on a suicide mission to kill her fellow citizens?

Sounds like something for which we would have condemned the old Soviet Union.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

47. Killing 300 instead of letting possibly thousands on the ground die

It's a scary, but very legitimate fear that 9/11 brought to light. The same as now if someone hijacks your plane, you don't assume they are going to let you live while they negotiate terms, you assume you are already marked for dead and jump them and kill them first.

I still don't buy that the fighter wasn't loaded with missles.

[daleo]

58. Regardless of how it came down, the people on board would have been killed

Whether by the actions of the passengers, the military or the terrorists they were doomed.

It's a sad statement of the times.

[PavePusher]

69. Right... 'cause that would have been worse than more crashes into large buildings....

or something.

[deaniac21]

28. It's amazing what goes on that we don't know about.

http://www.greatdreams.com/uforprts.htm

[pitohui]

43. i saw that

what bullshit to send her off with no weapons, they couldn't take a few minutes to load the fucking weapons?

and it's bullshit that she didn't speak up WAY before now, i realize at the time, we were under attack and it couldn't be let known that bush's armed forces were THIS unprepared for war, but she SHOULD have spoken up during the 2004 election campaign or at least the 2008 campaign...the fact that bush had been warned we would be attacked and the military was still at this pathetic level of unreadiness should have been grounds for putting bush in prison, not in office for another term

and this information should have certainly been revealed WAY before a fucking decade passed

she was left unready and sent out to die, so she keeps silent for years and potentially others are put to the same risk?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

48. You might want to read some better quality sources on this

There were aircraft being armed on the ground that followed them up shortly. Their planes had practice gun ammo only, and presumptively a training systems pods where the Sidewinders would go. This was well documented at the time.

[PavePusher]

70. It takes more than a few minutes.

And at the time, it was a tactic few people expected to become reality.

And the lessons were learned, at least inside the military, and plans changed.

We don't go around making public announcements of this stuff.

YMMV.

[treestar]

77. Exactly - willing to die for the nation suicidally but

not to inform us, for 10 years, of this alleged state of affairs.

Looking for adulation for being willing to kill herself but still alive.

[PavePusher]

82. Or maybe not allowed/not willing to talk about it until now.

She may not actually have read your timetable for when to do things.


It's also possible that you aren't actually trying to be an ass....

[itsallhappening]

44. She's a lying drama queen.

On Sunday I watched a C-Span interview with her. She talked about going up for the first time fully armed and waiting for orders to shoot down a plane.

In one interview about her father being a United pilot and the possibility of having to shoot down his plane, she said, "I mean, that's my daddy."

Give me a break. Ten years later she's telling this?

Sounds like a book launch to me.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

45. Err sort of...

The Aviation Leak version was much more detailed and less sensational. Overall much better done that this WP story.

- She and her commander were the first available F-16 at Andrews and were between training mission with a small amount of practice ammo. They were not NORAD alert aircraft
- No one had a clue of what was going on at the time
- Properly armed aircraft were less than 10 minutes behind them

They were willing to do what was necessary to stop additional attacks, even if it killed them. The radio discussion about taking off the tail was telling. I suggest everyone read that.

[Zywiec]

46. Thanks n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. Kamikaze missions are soooo 1945.

[backscatter712]

55. We can thank Cheney & Rumsfeld and their gang for this.

They were the ones that ordered the Air Force and NORAD to stand down for training, IIRC.

On purpose if you ask me.

OK, this is Dungeon material. I don't buy the MIHOP controlled-demolition theory, but I think there's plenty of room for hypothesizing that the Bush Administration allowed 9/11 to happen on purpose. LIHOP.

Yeah, I know. :tinfoilhat:

[Whiskeytide]

57. Wow - you people are really harsh...

She's lying because she says her plane was not armed? She's a drama queen because it flashed through her mind that she could be ordered to shoot down a civilian airliner and her father was a civilian airliner pilot? She's mentally imbalanced because she wouldn't have rejected a likely suicide assignment? Her commander is a bad guy because he would order her (and himself) to carry out such a mission? What the fuck is wrong with some of you people?

She was an Air force pilot placed in an unimaginable position - the prospect of having to kill American citizens to save potentially a greater number of American citizens. And her training would dictate that the way she might have to do that was by sacrificing herself to bring down the jet. You do understand that being ordered to take action that might cost you your life is pretty damn common in combat situations, right? And you guys are bitching her out??? The fact that she's brave as shit and willing to make the ultimate sacrifice never occurred to you?

Sure, Bush and others were to blame for not preventing 9/11, to one extent or another. Sure, rules that prohibited fighters from carrying live missiles over cities and suburban neighborhoods seem silly now. Sure, we don't want to imagine that our military could get complacent after decades of friendly skies over the US, and not have things like handy keys to the missile shed, trained personnel close enough to get to the airfield and load the ammunition, and full fuel tanks on fighters ready to scramble. And, not to mention that when some of the fighters were ordered to scramble, no one yet knew exactly what the Hell was going on. But that shit and more all happened on 9/11 while civilian and military personnel tried to get a grip on what was going down.

Remember, the hijackers didn't radio towers and make demands or threats. What ATC's (different ones in different cities) saw were a few planes off course that wouldn't respond, or that gave responses that didn't make sense. One set of hijackers left the radio on while they communicated with the cabin, as I recall, and that didn't make much sense either. Some pilots got off communications that there were disturbances, possible hijackers, but no one called anyone and said "these guys are taking over my plane and are going to fly it into a building". Even when the first plane hit the WTC Tower, not enough people knew enough of the pieces of the puzzle to make immediate connections and get orders issued. And even then, we're talking about civilian ATCs initially - and it might surprise you to learn that they don't have authority to order military jets to arm and scramble.

Damn, folks. You can hindsight this shit all you want to, but I'm pretty damn proud of people like her and a lot of the other people who tried like Hell to put this thing together and take the right action. I'm glad they're up there. If you or your family had been in 93's target building (whatever it was), I think you might look at the prospect of downing it a little differently.

[PavePusher]

71. A lot of people have been exposing their complete and utter lack of understanding...

of anything military over this news.

It's pretty disgusting.

[Lucian]

60. Yeah, I wouldn't do it.

But then again, I'm not willing to sacrifice myself for this fucked up country so rich men can keep living the high life.

[defendandprotect]

68. ROFL ... they might have alerted the Pentagon... which was defensless -- so they could evacuate --!!

:rofl: -- :rofl: -

[joeybee12]

78. Wasn't flight 93 heading AWAY from DC? nt