it wasn't 9/11 that changed the world

[ensho]

it was the 2000 coup d'etat that changed it

those nasty criminals at the Supreme Court working for the neo cons

and we all sat in shock and didn't do much of anything about it

[HopeHoops]

1. They had it planned all along - get in, give it a year, and then turn us into a police state.

[cui bono]

5. And unfortunately no one (and we all know who that is) is turning it back. n/t

[ileus]

18. We lost in a few years what it could take decades to get back...if ever.

[elocs]

21. Yes, it was machiavellianly sly & clever of them to do it in Florida.

I wonder if those who have lived in a true police state would call ours one?

[Tippy]

2. Yep got that right.....Dec. 12 2000 the day Democracy died

[liberal N proud]

3. SCOTUS pulled the coupe that no one saw coming.

[malaise]

4. Yes indeed

Get thee to the greatest

[Romulox]

6. Clinton's "triangulation" shifted the Party so far right that it gave W's ideology credibility.

The differences in trade policy between Clinton, Bush, and Obama are minimal, at best, for example.

[Uncle Joe]

7. No, the corporate media gave W credibility in large part

because Al Gore was the primary political champion for opening the Internet to the people thus magnifying their freedom of speech power more than anything since the First Amendment was adopted over 200 year ago.

As the Internet grew in power and influence, the corporate media came to view it as a threat to their existing business plan of top down, one way communication and monopoly on information. They saw the writing on the wall spelling out the loss of their power and influence and so they took it out on Gore with a near two year war of slander and libel prior to the selection of 2000 while enabling Bush to power by camouflaging or ignoring his shortcomings.

The corporate media kept the race close enough for Bush to steal, had they not done so, Gore would've won in a landslide.

[Romulox]

8. Al Gore was also point man for NAFTA. Google "Triangulation" for an introduction to Clinton/Gore's

"New Democrat" ideology.

[Uncle Joe]

10. Yes, Gore debated Perot on Larry King re: NAFTA

and won hands down, but that's not what kept the race close in 2000.

It was the relentless slander and libel aka: "War Against Gore" waged by the corporate media that kept the race close enough for Bush via the SC to steal.

Every time Gore had momentum on his side and was starting to pull away, the corporate media came out with a fresh new slander, the first and most repeated was the "Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet" lie this was repeated incessantly beginning in March of 99 in one form or another from the morning talk shows to the late night comedians and most every "news" related program in between.

It was pure brainwashing of the American People, the corporate media would use the same MO approximately two years later in selling the war with Iraq convincing a sizable majority of the American People that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

CNN had a poll and the most dynamic creation of the 20th century was the Internet but the corporate media with a very few isolated exceptions could never bring themselves to give Gore credit for his visionary legislative achievements, had they done so, Gore would've won in a landslide.

[Romulox]

11. He may have "won" the debate, but history has falsified his arguments. He was wrong. nt

[Uncle Joe]

12. History was changed after 2000, Cheney/Bush were in charge, not Gore. n/t

[Romulox]

16. Obama is in charge, now. We still wait for the mythical "side agreements".

:hi:

[Uncle Joe]

17. Gore is not Obama and Obama is not Gore.

Lincoln freed the slaves but he wasn't around to stop Jim Crow.

:hi:

[Romulox]

20. Both "New Democrats". If that label is tarnished, it is by the actions of those who

wear that label. :shrug:

[Uncle Joe]

23. If you get too caught up in labels, you miss the big picture, trees forest etc.

Lincoln was a Republican so is George W Bush, so I guess that makes them the same?:shrug:

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Of course, NAFTA, as envisioned by Gore, promoted EQUALITY

in trading partners: environmental policies, labor policies had to match up on both sides. Slave labor was not an option. Dumping on the partners' markets was not to be allowed.

The NAFTA that was passed stripped out all the protections which would have improved the working conditions, and raised the standard of living, in Mexico. The DLC's cooperation with Republican undermining of NAFTA is what pushed Gore out of the DLC. And THAT, as much as anything, was why he 'lost'.

[Romulox]

15. Then why isn't that codified into the agreement itself? No, we wait for mythical "side agreements"

to this day. :hi:

"The NAFTA that was passed stripped out all the protections which would have improved the working conditions, and raised the standard of living, in Mexico."

That was the NAFTA that Gore championed, however. Not some made-up version that didn't have any chance of passing. :hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. As I said: Gore actually believed the DLC line when he argued for those things,

and thought the side agreements would be worked out. He didn't really know who he was dealing with (rather like Obama, today). He DID champion a NAFTA with all those ingredients in place, and only later settled for something that would require a 'fix'. BTW, if HE was elected, er, if HE took office in 2000, I believe those fixes WOULD have happened.

A genuine 'fair trade' agreement, rather than the Republican free trade, makes sense. If we had that, the Mexican drug war would have never happened, the rate of illegal immigration would have plummeted from even the moderate rate of 1995, and Gore would have kicked Bush's ass in 2000.

This is ALL in the lap of the Fucking DLC.

[librechik]

9. my feeling too.

that was more of an eye opener about who we are as a nation than 9/11 was, by far. 9/11 just showed what the bad guys were willing to do to stay in power with no mandate.

[EFerrari]

14. On 9/11 the United States suffered the direct effects of its foreign policy

as people around the world always have.

[stuntcat]

19. for me it definitely did

(the election, I mean.. that's what decided it for me)

I knew the very first time I saw George Bush, heard him speak.
But he's just an ugly symptom of an awful nasty problem.
I've learned enough about humanity the last few years that ALL I am glad for anymore is being over 40 and that I never had a baby.