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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:10 PM
Original message
American Infrastructure Is Being Built By The Chinese, NOT Americans
Edited on Wed Sep-14-11 07:17 PM by nadinbrzezinski
Republicans in Congress have been objecting to new infrastructure spending that would put Americans to work repairing and rebuilding bridges, highways, schools, airports, skyscrapers, high speed rail lines, and clean energy industries. Now we may know why.

San Francisco is getting a new bridge connecting to Oakland. But it’s not being built by American workers. It’s being built in China and shipped back to America for assembly. But that’s not the only infrastructure project being built by the Chinese, and it’s not just being built in China. It turns out, the state owned Chinese contractors are being hired out to build American infrastructure right here in the United States.

According to Engineering News Record, five of the world’s top 10 contractors, in terms of revenue, are now Chinese. One of them, China State Construction Engineering Group, has overtaken established American giants like Bechtel.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/12/american-infrastructure-is-being-built-by-the-chinese-not-americans/

Here http://posterous.com/#spaces/nadinbrzezinski/posts/70305724
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh hell I will say it
Our damn monuments to our country are being sold out.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Rise and Fall of Great Empires
That's it
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Bound to happen when ideals
get raped and pillaged by human greed.
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astral Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. They are taking over much more than that.
We are owned already. Whether they are getting paid slave labor or good wages is kind of beside the point, at this point. Our own country doesn't want to employ us. What are we heading for next? Do people already know? Do they want to keep us alive if they don't want us to work so we can earn pay and live? We are watching the predictions play out right before our eyes, the time is now, it doesn't make any difference whether we admit to what we're seeing or not.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Recommend
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. Rec... Nadin thank you for all you do. NC
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well hopefully they are not indentured servents like they were when they built the railroads
but something tells me they are.
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ChandlerJr Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. Like the MLK memorial in DC
with a that disrespectful statue of Mao.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I don't understand? You don't like the monument?
I want to know what people think.
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Broderick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. ish
250M for that, or some such number.

We are for sale.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Made in China
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ChandlerJr Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Not one bit
The entire thing was made in China and assembled here by "volunteer" Chinese labor and the Chinese artist that did the "likeness" of King made him look more like Mao.

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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. it's a Chairman Mao stature with MLK's name on it.
It looks like that crappy kitsche that the Nazis and Communists turned out in the 30's and 40's.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. my depression is through the roof, but I will conquer it.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Is this not something. Those Chines Communists are out ahead
every time I turn around.

By the way Folks, they showed us how to do stimulus.
Very Big , cut the Red Tape and Do it.

Not so bad, huh. Let me clutch my pearls, I never
thought I would live to utter such words.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bridge Comes to San Francisco With a Made-in-China Label
A joint venture between two American companies, American Bridge and Fluor Enterprises, won the prime contract for the project in early 2006. Their bid specified getting much of the fabricated steel from overseas, to save money.

...

“I don’t think the U.S. fabrication industry could put a project like this together,” Brian A. Petersen, project director for the American Bridge/Fluor Enterprises joint venture, said in a telephone interview. “Most U.S. companies don’t have these types of warehouses, equipment or the cash flow. The Chinese load the ships, and it’s their ships that deliver to our piers.”

Despite the American union complaints, former California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican, strongly backed the project and even visited Zhenhua’s plant last September, praising “the workers that are building our Bay Bridge.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/business/global/26bridge.html?pagewanted=all

It is not at all clear whether the US steel industry has the capability to do the job. The heavy steel mills of Gary, Pittsburgh, Bethlehem, Sparrows Point, etc. have all been closed. There is, for example, no longer a US mill capable of forging steel pressure vessels for nuclear reactors.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. do you have a problem with this?
I certainly do.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Yes, but I don't think that the situation is at all easy to reverse
Once you lose a major manufacturing capability it is very difficult to bring it back. It requires huge capital investment, recreating the technology base, and retraining a work force in the necessary skills and specialities. Bear in mind that building and operating steel mills is not something you can just read up on in books -- lot of practical know how is in the heads of employees who pass it on by word of mouth from one to another.

Furthermore, we have pretty much decided that we don't want to do icky, smelly, ugly heavy industry stuff in the US. So there would be huge opposition to doing something like:
"“They’ve produced a pretty impressive bridge for us,” Tony Anziano, a program manager at the California Department of Transportation, said a few weeks ago. He was touring the 1.2-square-mile manufacturing site that the Chinese company created to do the bridge work. “Four years ago, there were just steel plates here and lots of orange groves.”"

Imagine acquiring and developing such a site in California. The environmental statements would take decades.
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ChandlerJr Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. The Hoover Dam was given the go ahead in 1931
and completed in 1935.

The Hoover Dam Bypass Bridge was proposed in 1968, studied for 27 years, approved in 2001 and construction began in 2005. The bridge finally opened in October of 2010.

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Hoover+Dam+Bypass+Bridge+Project+Complete+xQcXPsHLldpl.jpg
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. The central portion of which was built by Japanese companies
From wiki:
"The bridge itself was built by Obayashi Corporation and PSM Construction USA, Inc.,".

PSM is a subsidiary of PS Mitsubishi.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Recommended readying
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kinda the way Bechtel became a giant. Doing work in other countries
instead of them doing it themselves. I guess we could call this full circle.

Does this mean we the American people have official stepped into subserviant bondage brought on by the Chinese building us white elephants which we will have to pay them enormous interest while having no way of generating wages to pay for it?
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matmar Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. Didn't Chinese workers build the trans-continental railroad?
they were brought in as cheap labor and to break unions.

Some things never change.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yup.
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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. Chinese Labor on the Transcontinental Railroad, western end.
CHINESE LABOR.

A large majority of the white laboring class on the Pacific Coast find more profitable and congenial employment in mining and agricultural pursuits, than in railroad work. The greater portion of the laborers employed by us are Chinese, who constitute a large element in the population of California. Without them it would be impossible to complete the western portion of this great national enterprrise, within the time required by the Acts of Congress.

As a class they are quiet, peaceable, patient, industrious and economical—ready and apt to learn all the different kinds of work required in railroad building, they soon become as efficient as white laborers. More prudent and economical, they are contented with less wages. We find them organized into societies for mutual aid and assistance. These societies, that count their numbers by thousands, are conducted by shrewd, intelligent business men, who promptly advise their subordinates where employment can be found on the most favorable terms.

No system similar to slavery, serfdom or peonage prevails among these laborers. Their wages, which are always paid in coin, at the end of each month, are divided among them by their agents, who attend to their business, in proportion to the labor done by each person. These agents are generally American or Chinese merchants, who furnish them their supplies of food, the value of which they deduct from their monthly pay. We have assurances from leading Chinese merchants, that under the just and liberal policy pursued by the Company, it will be able to procure during the next year, not less than 15,000 laborers. With this large force, the Company will be able to push on the work so as not only to complete it far within the time required by the Acts of Congress, but so as to meet the public impatience.

LELAND STANFORD
Pres't C. P. R. R. Co.

Central Pacific Railroad Statement Made to the President of the United States, and Secretary of the Interior, on the Progress of the Work. October 10th, 1865. H.S. Crocker & Co., Printers, 92 J Street, Sacramento.


http://cprr.org/Museum/Chinese.html




Hands off my Social Security!
Hands off Latin America!


Just my dos centavos

robdogbucky



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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. I have read a little about it
Edited on Thu Sep-15-11 11:35 AM by robdogbucky
The only sources that I have read that suggested there was any large scale slavery or indentured servitude involving the Chinese were fictional.

The Chinese laborers had a good rep from previous projects in Cal. They only worked the Pacific to east portion BTW, over the worst terrain, the Sierra Nevada. The project from the other direction had the then largely untamed Indian tribes to contend with and also exploited an immigrant group to help get it done. The Mormons recruited from back east and Europe for laborers, promising a homestead when they were finished as their reward. Many ended up not being paid by the church, but at least they had their way paid to America by the Mormons.

In Stephen E. Ambrose's book "Nothing Like It In The World," The Men Who Built The Transcontinental Railroad 1863-1869, he points out on p. 21 that:

"...That included the thousands of Chinese working for the Central Pacific. Contrary to myth, they were not brought over by the boatload to work for the railroad. Most of them were already in California. They were glad to get the work. Although they were physically small, their teamwork was so exemplary that they were able to accomplish feats we just stand astonished at today..."

There is a lot more information on the Chinese laborers' contribution to the building of the west end of the rail line in his book, the most difficult part. There were a lot of Chinese already here, but they were also recruited in China by overseas merchants touting the expensive labor in California.

pp. 151-152:


"...After 1858, many Chinese had come to America in response to pamphlets put out by several companies of Chinese merchants residing in San Francisco, advertising the high price of labor. The merchant companies took their pay from a percentage of a man's earnings, plus a large bonus. They agreed to return a man to China free of charge; in the event of sickness he would be cared for; in case of death they would send the body home to be buried in the Celestial Empire. These contracts were faithfully fulfilled. Nonetheless, the ships rivaled the slave ships for gruesomeness.

In California the Chinese could find work as domestic cooks, laundrymen, housekeepers, gardeners, errand boys, and so on. Like most previous immigrants, they sent back to China letters to their families, urging their wives, children, parents, brothers, and sisters to come. They landed in San Francisco, which had the largest number of Chinese and was known to them in their own language as "the big city - Tai Fau - first city." Next came Sacramento, the "Yi Fau," or the second city. Marysville was the third city..."

The real reason the Chinese ended up the marjority of the laborers on this west end of the construction was that initially the men that were hired were either gold diggers, that had arrived in SF with nothing, but took a job with the railroad and at the occasion of their first paycheck, bought tools and hightailed off the job to dig gold in them thar hills. Most of these men were unaware that the large surge of the actual gold rush from 1848-1860 was essentially over.

The other groups were ex-civil war soldiers and groups of immigrant labor such as the Irish. These groups also proved unreliable as they drank, fought, and generally were not manageable as a work force for such a demanding task. On the other hand after the initial doubts by some of the bigwigs building it like Strobridge and Crocker, the Chinese were found to perform superbly.

"...They worked as teams, took almost no breaks, learned how to blast away rocks, stayed healthy and on the job. Engineer Montague praised them and declared in his 1865 report, "The experiment has proved eminently successful." The CP began to hire them locally, offering $28 a month, then $30, then $31. Those were big wages even when the men had to pay for their own food. Crocker turned to a labor contractor in San Francisco, Koopmanschap, and had him look across the state for two thousand more "coolies," and even to import them from China if necessary. Before the end of 1865, there were seven thousand Chinese at work on the line, with just under two thousand whites."

Nothing Like It In The World, p. 152.



CHINESE-AMERICAN CONTRIBUTION TO TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD

...Chinese labor was suggested, as they had already helped build the California Central Railroad, the railroad from Sacramento to Marysville and the San Jose Railway. Originally thought to be too small to complete such a momentous task, Charles Crocker of Central Pacific pointed out, "the Chinese made the Great Wall, didn't they?"

The first Chinese were hired in 1865 at approximately $28 per month to do the very dangerous work of blasting and laying ties over the treacherous terrain of the high Sierras. They lived in simply dwellings and cooked their own meals, often consisting of fish, dried oysters and fruit, mushrooms and seaweed.

Work in the beginning was slow and difficult. After the first 23 miles, Central Pacific faced the daunting task of laying tracks over terrain that rose 7,000 feet in 100 miles. To conquer the many sheer embankments, the Chinese workers used techniques they had learned in China to complete similar tasks. were lowered by ropes from the top of cliffs in baskets , and while suspended, they chipped away at the granite and planted explosives that were used to blast tunnels. Many workers risked their lives and perished in the harsh winters and dangerous conditions.

By the summer of 1868, 4,000 workers, two thirds of which were Chinese, had built the transcontinental railroad over the Sierras and into the interior plains. On May 10, 1869, the two railroads were to meet at Promontory, Utah in front of a cheering crowd and a band. A Chinese crew was chosen to lay the final ten miles of track, and it was completed in only twelve hours...

http://cprr.org/Museum/Chinese.html



I don't think there were anything like labor unions in the 1800s, so that theory is not valid in terms of the Chinese being hired to bust unions here.

That came later, like with Nixon and the recognition of China and Chinese opening the door to the outside world in the 1970s, making their workforce a player on the global stage.




Hands off my Social Security!
Hands off Latin America!




Just my dos centavos

robdogbucky




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matmar Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. Thanks for the info...However your statement -
"I don't think there were anything like labor unions in the 1800s" .....there were plenty of labor unions in America in the 1800's, especially after the industrial revolution...
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robdogbucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Nothing until 1880, then only a .1 fraction of labor force
This was in 1863-1869, not 1880. But point well taken.

Table 1

Union Members per 100 Nonagricultural Workers, 1880-1985: Selected Countries
By 1900 that was at 7.5, by 1914, at 10.5.....

http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/friedman.unions.us


Point is that nowhere in the historical record can I find anything that hints at the hiring of Chinese for the TCR was union busting.


I have seen ficionalized accounts of it being portrayed as slavery, you know "Shanghai-ed," but here in California it is more the tale from the descendents that settled here, it was as I pasted above. Same old same old. New group gets foothold, works to get rest of family over here, etc. The Irish did it that way as well. Come here work your ass off digging a canal or building a railroad and save enough to bring everyone over. Exploitation, yes, slavery, no, union-busting that early on, no. The only way ethnic groups could get a foothold here.

The historical society did a book on the stories from a cemetery in my home town. It's titled "Bishops to Bootleggers," and in it is the tracking of the timeline of the different waves of immigrants from Europe over the years, especially from 1860-1920.


I'm happy to be corrected.



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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. You've read a little, but you need to read a little more -- and read between the lines.
If the president of the railroad himself is praising the frugality and happiness of the Chinese to work for less than other groups, that should tell you something.
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flamingdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-14-11 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. Time to learn Chinese at the local Community College.. nt
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
27. Oh noes! I could NEVER drive my Hyundai over a bridge that was made in China!!!!
:silly:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Yummy
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. First it was the railroads, now the bridges? Geez
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Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-15-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R
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