So now that we have not tried any Democratic/Progressive ideas..

[edhopper]

in 2012 the voters, who are mostly not deep thinkers, or think at all for that matter, will give "The Other Guys' a chance and we will have a Repub Government again to finish off this country.
The fact that the Repubs got their policies enacted under Bush, which resulted in massive deficits and the near collapse of the economy won't matter. They will just go back to their "give it all to the rich" playbook.
And of course the fact that we haven't tried any progressive policies under Obama won't get talked about.
His healthcare plan was largely a Republican plan, not the single payer or public fund progressives would putforth. His Stimulus plan was to small and mostly tax cuts and aid to the States, again Repub agenda. He has pushed back against real Wall Street regulation and allowed the Bush Tax cut to continue. Hell, he has even embraced the bullshit idea that the Government should reduce spending in a recession, that is not what a progressive/Keynesian would do. So after 4 more years of Repub policies we are still in the shit. And as a reward the unthinking voters will return the assholes to power.
Mark my words, NY9 is a portent of things to come.

[FarLeftFist]

1. At this point Obama might as well go balls to the wall Leftist and rally our citizens

He's got nothing to lose, and going balls to the wall Leftist would be a complete change of direction, one that would put us on the right track.

[edhopper]

3. Except that he is a right of center

corporatist Democrat. He could have done that all along and been our Roosevelt. Instead he is our Hoover.

[FarLeftFist]

10. Exactly why I'm saying he should do a complete 360 in ideology.

He's been trying to appease the masses, and as you point out the ONLY ideas left untried are Liberal/Progressive policies. He might as well go full blown Leftist like he did during his campaign. That seemed to appeal to the masses.

[edhopper]

15. Not saying he shouldn't

just saying he won't. He doesn't believe in Progressive ideas.

[FarLeftFist]

23. I agree with you completely. It would be a damn shame if we threw everything at this economy except

Liberal/Progressive ideas. Which btw have been proven effective in history. Austerity is a social experiment as is conservatism.

[misanthrope]

22. He'll do a 360 alright...

...which is a move that leaves you pointing in the same direction you were before.

You mean a 180, which is an about-face.

[FarLeftFist]

25. Oops, been a long day. Of course I mean a 180. Thanks.

[Cool Logic]

2. "His healthcare plan was largely a Republican plan..."

That's a bit odd, for not a single one of them voted for there own plan.

[edhopper]

5. Look at the history

it was based on the Republican plan from the 90s and Romney in Mass. It was NOT a historically Democratic plan.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. Wasn't it basically the old Bob Dole plan?

:shrug:

[edhopper]

16. Yep.

[Dragonfli]

32. Correct, and the Republican plan of the 90's (now law), was constructed by the Heritage Foundation.

The Heritage Foundation is the true "father" of Obromney Care, Obama and Mitt were only loyal servants of a right wing think tank.

It took them over 20 years, but the Republicans finally got their plan passed.

Now that they have accomplished that goal they will begin another 20 year (if necessary) campaign for something even further to the Right, it is what they do, move the center until they finally get their Fascism and are allowed to call it the center of American values.

I am ashamed that supposed "Democrats" have become allies in their quest.

[Cool Logic]

35. Forgive me, but wasn't the Massachusetts legislature overwhelmingly Democratic...

during Romney's tenure as governor?

[edhopper]

41. Yes

but with Romney as Governor they knew it was the best they could pass. It was still a GOP plan. Just as the one the Dems in Congress passed under Obama.
It was NOT a progressive Health Care Plan.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. Well, they were for it before they were against it

They were against it only because Obama had proposed it.

I first heard Republicans propose such a plan ("We'll solve the nation's health crisis by requiring everyone to buy insurance") during the Reagan administration, and then as a counter-proposal to Clinton's initiative.

It's all a game with them.

[sudopod]

7. They are good at that.

Hypocrites gonna hypocrit.

[tgal]

19. It's still true

It is a ReThug plan.

No matter what you find 'odd'....

[bvar22]

28. That was the INSANE (or CLEVER) part of it all.

The "Democrats" passed a Republican Health Insurance SCAM,
without forcing the Republicans to take ANY responsibility!

NOW, when the Perfect Stom descends in 2014 (MANDATE),
all the Republicans have to do is sit back and say, "YEP. We voted against it."
Democrats will be unelectable for a generation.

It took some serious work to fuck all this up,
but the Obama Administration was UP to the Task.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[edhopper]

29. And we should remember

Obama forced the Public Option to be shelved in pursuit of a single Repub vote. Which he didn't get.

[LooseWilly]

37. 4-D chess strategy sometimes defies mere tactical thinking :sarcasm:

Incompetence so staggering that it suggests an "intentional taking of a dive"...

[edhopper]

40. And I didn't even mention

Oil drilling and Ozone regulation.

[ibegurpard]

31. yes, how odd

and they continue to oppose policy he throws out there that they'd have no problem supporting...if it didn't come from him.

[Odin2005]

33. LOL, Never heard of RomneyCare in Massachusetts?

[Cool Logic]

34. I believe he had a little help...there are 200 members of the MA legislature.

Only two members voted against RomneyCare.

[Selatius]

38. They would have if it was called Romneycare instead of Obamacare. nt

[HughBeaumont]

39. Republicans didn't vote on it because THEIR plan is . . .

. . . "Die Fast, Die Cheap, More Oxygen for ME ME ME!!!!!!"

[FiveGoodMen]

4. "the fact that we haven't tried any progressive policies under Obama won't get talked about"

Worse.

The M$M will claim that we did try progressive policies and that they are what caused everything to fall apart.

And the average Joe-dumber-than-a-doornail will believe it (his favorite preacher will tell him to believe it).

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. That's why the right-wing media persist in calling

the Obama health plan "socialized medicine" and "government health care" and calling Obama a "far left Marxist," even though none of those assertions are true.

Your average voter doesn't know what any of these terms mean, only that they're supposed to be BAD.

The aim is to discredit anything that really IS left of center, although I bet that if you presented REAL left proposals without labeling them as such, Joe Average AM Radio Listener would like them, as long as his favorite radio-based mind controllers didn't get wind of them.

[Capitalocracy]

43. Will claim? They say it every day.

If you watch a little Fox (I know, it's disgusting, but I like to know my enemy) they literally claim that the economic problems are all because of government spending and stimulus and that the current economic situation is an indictment and proof that Keynesian economics is dead and Obama's a big fat leftist socialist and on and on...

Somehow they can't seem to realize that if they're going to claim that the lack of an economic turnaround after a stimulus bill that's half tax cuts and half stimulus proves that stimulus doesn't work, it equally proves that tax cuts don't work!

I wonder how it would've affected their coverage if instead of calling it a stimulus bill and making it half tax cuts, the Obama administration called it a tax cuts bill and made it half stimulus?

[JoePhilly]

8. Time to curl up in a fetal position I guess and accept our 2012 GOP overlords.

[edhopper]

9. Looks like.

[joeybee12]

13. Yup, either GOP Overlord Perry or GOP Overlord Obama will get in...nt

[JoePhilly]

17. And when Obama starts teaching Creationism as Science in schools, we're all doomed.

[edhopper]

20. So where do you disagree with my main points?

[JoePhilly]

26. Ending DADT is not a progressive position?

Ending pre-existing conditions?

Ending life time maximums?

Extending unemployment benefits?

And about 100 other progressive actions by Obama.

You claim there are none. That claim is false.

[edhopper]

27. You got me there

I was a tad hyperbolic. But on the major economic issues, which the election will turn on, I stand by my OP.

[bvar22]

30. Those were the crumbs.

For each of those crumbs thrown down to the UnderClasses,
Obama gave the RICH Hundreds of Billions (Trillions?) of Dollars,
and fortified the position of the Parasitic Insurance Corporations as the gateway to health care for Americans.


He gave away the store,
but you are praising him for giving you a sucker.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[edhopper]

42. K & R

you got that right!

[elleng]

11. ...

:thumbsdown:

[Occulus]

44. Why are you always thumbing-down truth? n/t

[edhopper]

45. Hard to accept our hero

has feet of clay I guess.

[FogerRox]

18. KnR excellent points.

[RZM]

21. Are you a voter? Does that make you 'unthinking' too?

And it's 'portent.' (I only correct grammar or spelling on 'smarter than everybody else' posts, BTW) :P

[edhopper]

24. Thanks for the spell check.

Did you see my qualifier "most" (not all). And I live in NY9, so I'll stand by my portrayal of the voters.

[Raine]

36. Great Points! nt

:thumbsup: