It's becoming harder and harder to keep caring so much....

[NRaleighLiberal]

Stick with me - this thought emerged from a lunch discussion with my two best friends.

I started really paying attention to politics when the election was snatched away from Gore - Bush was to me such an insult to anyone with a modicum of intellect (after watching the debates, could anyone not wonder that it would be a slam dunk election for Gore?). So I started paying closer attention, even though any time Bush came on the teevee or radio we had to turn him off. (Yes, I am one of the 10 percenters, even after 911).

Then Sept 11 happened - then we overreacted, and the lies started. Our lives all changed - instead of the country that managed to stand up to the UK and form our own country way back when, we seemed to become a country of chicken shit, sky is falling, afraid of everything. The media decided to side with the corporate masters - and that part has only gotten worse. It became all about money and gotcha politics. Then Bush/Kerry and Ohio happened. I started paying even closer attention though it all made me sick. I am 55 and always end up on the very liberal/progressive end of things - I am also a dove, I suppose. The whole phenomenon of people voting against their interests - the hot-button one issue voters - became a real puzzle to me. After Bush was placed in power a second time, I joined DU. I didn't/don't post all that much - only when I am passionate about something and feel like I have something to add. (I've skipped over a lot - the little romp into Iraq, for example, but I am sure you know how I feel about that).

Then wonder of wonders - Obama was elected. I helped out in the campaign - I had hope. Unrealistic hope I guess, because I would have started with ensuring that examples were made, that liars were punished - because the only way forward is to learn from the past - and once the bridge of lies is crossed, there is no going back. I decided to become a mod here - it was just wonderful doing so, then I found that I burned out - on politics, on watching the left eat itself, on the constant anger. So I am taking a break from that, and I am not here nearly as often as I used to be.

Because....I don't know where we go next as a country. Once huge lies are told and nothing becomes of the perps, what do we do? Once the media passes off truth and lies as a moral equivalence, where do we go? The poverty, the endless wars, the nonstop partisan attacks, the inability of good ideas of the left to be actioned because of the nonstop blocking of any progress by the right. Good people like Krugman tell the truth, and get blasted for it - even by the left. Why can't we on the left be tough enough to fight back when we could and should?

I want to care....I think we all need to care. But I honestly don't know what to do with the frustration and anger - my friends told me today (and they are much more detached than I) that nothing stays the same, that something will happen, that things will shift back to where they should.

But how? How are others here keeping energy and hope and optimism that there is some good way out of this mess?

[Taverner]

1. You and me both, bro

[Broderick]

2. We have to put our work boots on

Win hearts and minds. The blame is solely on Republicans, Bush, and Corporations!

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

6. And Democrats who (heart) the Corporations as much as the GOP.

You forgot them.

[Broderick]

9. The co-opting by big business is affecting both parties.

We need to fight. We need so much more. I want nationalization of the banks, wall street, global multinational corporations and union membership by every working American to ensure our future.

[Claudia Jones]

13. that is not where the lines are drawn

On issue after issue the right wing is consistent and in agreement and has been for decades. They represent a core of maybe 20% of the general public at most.

Democrats are divided on all of the points of conflict with the right wingers.

- Organized Labor (the right wing opposes, Democrats are divided)
- Public education (the right wing opposes, Democrats are divided)
- Privatization (the right wing supports, Democrats are divided)
- "Free" trade and "free" markets (the right wing supports, Democrats are divided)
- Progressive taxation (the right wing opposes, Democrats are divided)
- Public services to include health care (the right wing opposes, Democrats are divided)
- Equal rights for all (the right wing opposes, Democrats are divided)
- Economic equality (the right wing opposes, Democrats are divided)
- Protection of public resources (the right wing opposes, Democrats are divided)
- Worker protections and safety and health regulations (the right wing opposes, Democrats are divided)

On every single issue that is near and dear to the right wingers they can count on support from a faction within the Democratic party, and we can see that right here every day. This is the most important key to their success. Insisting that we look at all politics as nothing more than a partisan electoral process of red versus blue obscures this reality and allows the corruption and sabotage go on within the Democratic party.

Ergo, the battle lines are drawn within the Democratic party, and not between the two parties.

[Broderick]

15. Herein lies the great problem with division in the Republican party

The tea party has co-opted their energy, and they are a reviled minority not only on the left but on the right. I think there is a good possibility that when Romney gets the nod, they will break away and run someone on a third party ticket - securing their defeat. For decades.

[RKP5637]

17. That, would be my dream come true!!!!!!!! n/t

[Broderick]

18. ME TOO

[Claudia Jones]

29. well....

If we worried less about what the Republicans are going to do, and more about what we are going to do then there would be no need to worry about what the Republicans are going to do.

[Broderick]

32. Always know what your enemy is doing

Underestimating your enemy is a mistake too. Like Unions hoping for proper treatment with the bought and paid for Corporations. It's easy to be led astray from the mass media when they want to tell a story.

[Claudia Jones]

33. distraction and deception

I am not suggesting that we should ignore the right wing agenda. Rather we should not fall for the ongoing distraction and deception they engage in and respond to that garbage at face value and thereby give it legitimacy.

Here is what the right wing is doing: they are defending and promoting the interests of the wealthy few at all times and in all ways, to the detriment of the many. They won't say that is what they are doing, because if they did the public would not support them. The proper response to that is to defend and promote the interests of the working class people at all times and in all ways with something approaching the clairty and vigor that the Republicans bring to the battle.

[Broderick]

34. I started to fall for the Corporate Union against Union fight

propagated and propped up by the media. I did a lot of research on that issue, and that is why I brought it up because I recognize your name when I was asking the questions. The media has more power than anyone will admit, and even the one singular station that was a haven to progressives is being co-opted daily by big business - comcast. The enemy is in the mirror when we don't look beyond what the media wants us to think a certain way.

[Claudia Jones]

36. good example

Thanks for sharing that.

"The enemy is in the mirror when we don't look beyond what the media wants us to think a certain way."

The genius behind the right wing propaganda (if we can call it that) is not so much that they "rally the troops" but rather it is in the fact that they are able to define the opposition. They will give a platform to vile reactionary tripe, and that does damage. But they also define the "other side" and they do that in such a way that makes our positions weak and untenable.

[Broderick]

39. You are WISE!

:toast:


I may react by the seat of my jeans sometimes, but I am far from stupid. I will look at the picture in front of me and learn.

[Claudia Jones]

40. LOL... I am old, not wise

Thanks. I have been in this battle for 45 years.


:toast:

[Broderick]

41. I am old too, but not worn out or giving up by any means

Still have my fire.

[Claudia Jones]

42. hear hear

I am a long way from being ready for the rocking chair.

[RKP5637]

16. I often think similarly, that on some issues the dems can be their own worst

enemy. The division within the democratic party is going to cost us. I would look toward Obama to pull the party together, to unite it, but often what I see from my perspective is the WH causing divisions in the party too. Sometimes I think the democratic party is really two or three parties trying to act as one. I know, nothings perfect, but it could be better IMO.

[Claudia Jones]

31. oil and water

There is no way to "unite" the party. The positions of the two factions are incompatible, fundamentally and inevitably.

No, the battle must be fought.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. It is

Fodder for later post.

Thanks...

Usual place, off site.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. Uh, actually real Democrats aren't divided on those issues --

The current GOPer infestation of the Democratic Party are the only "Dems" that have a problem with those issues.

[Claudia Jones]

30. maybe

Doesn't matter what label we put on it. Right wing politics are right wing politics. If you say that we are the "true" Dems, then the conservatives will simply turn around and say "nyah nyah no you aren't, we are!"

[hfojvt]

55. well if you want to purfy the Democratic Party

then you are gonna lose a lot of elections that way.

[Laelth]

50. Brilliant post, Claudia Jones.

Count me as one on the left end of each and every one of those issues about which Democrats are allegedly divided. Frankly, I'd like to see the party split. I want to be a member of a party that stands for something (even if it's a smaller party).

-Laelth

[Claudia Jones]

51. thanks

A Democratic party that fought for the working class people would be larger, not smaller. The DLC faction that has gained control over the party, largely because they have been heavily bankrolled by the big money players from various industries, is smaller than we are, and we are on the side of the working class people while they are on the side of Wall Street and big money.

[Laelth]

58. Spot on.

You're absolutely right to say that the Democratic Party would get much bigger, and quickly, if it actually and consistently fought for working people and not the already-wealthy.

I, for one, don't see that happening any time soon, I am sorry to say.

-Laelth

[gateley]

3. K&R. I think it's too far gone, but I'd rather hope than just give up.

At least the little things I do make me feel involved to a certain extent. And the outrage feels good at times. :hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

5. K&R!

[RKP5637]

7. Yeah, I know "exactly" what you mean. n/t

[EFerrari]

8. I try to focus on social justice, away from national politics,

with networking with SJ activists and groups. I still complain but not nearly as often as if all I was attending to was Washington. Could still do better. :shrug:

[Vinca]

10. I'm seriously considering sticking my head back in the sand.

Politics drives me nuts on a daily basis, even though I know that since I'm one of the sacred voting geezers, anything that directly affects me probably won't be all that bad and I don't have kids to worry about. But . . . alas . . . I can't join the "me me me" crowd and care only about my lot in life so I'll continue to scream at the television and lose sleep thinking about it all until they cart me away. It's like the mob. Once you get in you never get out.

[RKP5637]

14. Sometimes I feel like just saying screw it all anymore, but I can't. I'm concerned about the

youth of this country, the people that are going to miss out possibly on some of the great things this country used to have. It was never perfect. Equality sucked for many, but it seemed at one time we were getting better.

Anymore, it seems we're on a really slippery slope going over the edge. I still have hope, or at minimal, I want to see where I'm landing when I fall.

Yep, I'm in that boat, ... "lose sleep thinking about it all until they cart me away. It's like the mob. Once you get in you never get out."

2012 is coming and I have great trepidation about it ... Mostly 'cause I don't trust the typical American voter to have their brains in gear when they vote. And what a ghastly lineup of characters for presidential candidates the republicans have - it's like a comedy show ... but sad and pathetic.

One thing that really astounds me anymore is the hatefulness in this country. It is really sickening.

[Blue_Tires]

11. I'm at that crossroads, too...The only thing that sort of keeps me going is

I know where this country is headed if it does decide to go FULL-teabag (and don't think it can't happen, either)

[Hell Hath No Fury]

12. Sometimes I feel as if my head is going to explode.

The frustration, the rage, the fear, the hopelessness. :(

I think the only way out of our situation is to bypass the current political/economic structure. Bypass the Party structure and vote/campaign for/finance only candidates in line with your vision of the future. Stop feeding your dollars to the corporations that are crushing us via politics. They -- all of them -- feed and survive on money.

It is time to starve the Beast.

Yes, your friends are correct, things are constantly changing in politics and the world, but I fear we are in an extended period of great risk -- especially now that the Democratic Party can no longer be counted on to protect us.

[movonne]

19. I think that looking at some of these comments here that the

repugs and koch and all the corporation have done their job well...

[Broderick]

20. yep

[FiveGoodMen]

22. IMO, we have to stop hate radio and the megachurches

If we can't do that, we can't win.

If we did manage that, we might be alright in a generation or two.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

24. That is a tough one.

I don't know how to do that, exactly. :( Taking out megachurches might be possible through exposing corruption of church leaders, and radio through boycotting of sponsors (a la Beck). It is a tricky issue because it runs up against protected rights.

[lunatica]

21. Become the person you want to be and others to be

When it comes down to it the only person you have any power over is yourself. Period. Work on becoming what you admire in any human being and lead by example.

In the grand scheme of things this too shall pass.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Anomie, that's the word you are looking for

And you are correct.

May do a post later on this. Not here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Here, more on anomie

http://posterous.com/#spaces/nadinbrzezinski/posts/70311706

[Raine]

25. I feel like you do :-( nt

[DCBob]

27. Progress is never easy. Its like a protracted war.. you win a battle then lose a battle..

it can go on and on but if one side gives up then of course that side will lose.

[Broderick]

28. +1

[NRaleighLiberal]

35. Understood - and the intent wasn't to really say say who is currently to blame - it is

about which principles are the right ones (and I firmly believe it is progressive principles and ideas that need to "win" - since the right has no ideas - we know what their main "idea" is...tax cuts. And we also know what they believe their mission to be - defeat Obama).

It is to look at how the current playing field is set up - stacked pretty clearly against change and progress, for so many reasons - and understanding how to fight that war - with few weapons aside from our superior ideas and our empathy and understanding what needs to be done for the best for all - that is what I struggle with.

When belief system trumps truth - when Palin actually has more than her 15 minutues - when fear has been played so effectively as a trump card - and when there is so much apathy, and so few are really paying attention - working my way through THAT is what makes it tough for me to see through.

[DCBob]

45. I still find it reassuring that a man with black skin and a scary Muslim name became POTUS.

That was a tremendous step forward for us. Of course we should have realized that would rattle the cages of the dogs of hell and we may have to deal with a few steps backward before we can move a few more steps forward. I think that is understandable given the circumstances. This is no time to give up and throw in the towel.

[Initech]

38. We have to take back the media. It's not liberal by any stretch of the imagination.

Limbaugh and Hannity can repeat that fucking lie until they're blue in the face. It's not true. The media hasn't been liberal since the days of Eisenhower and Kennedy. It hasn't as long as I've been alive. It's so far to the right now that even the people in it have lost touch with reality. I used to be at least somewhat accepted of Fux News and their "fair and balanced" crap until they started siding with Koch Bros. think tanks and began attacking workers' rights. The tea party - a by-product of that bullshit - has repeatedly and continued to cross lines that should not be crossed, and until we really take back the media and start holding these bastards accountable, nothing's gonna change. We're just gonna keep electing from the same pool of assholes.

[hulka38]

43. The Democratic Party leadership

(not just Obama but a host of others) has inflicted a lot of damage on the left in the last 12 years and more if you go back to nafta in 1994. And they've damaged America. Yet they remain solidly in power and every election season they demand our support. I had always perceived a large gap between the ideals of the Democratic Party and the GOP. Since 2008, I've realized the large gap is actually between my ideals and the modern Democratic Party and the small gap is between the Dems and the GOP. I'm satisfied knowing that I finally get it and that I'm still capable of critical and independent thinking and will be a better change agent for it.

[In Jest]

46. Awww

I thought there was gonna be a map! :cry:

[WhiteTara]

47. The price of liberty is constant vigilance.

The Buddhists say "Evil is strong and virtue is weak and must constantly be cultivated"

You may have just become aware, but the struggle has been going on longer than you can know and will last longer than you can imagine; but, we (like Sisyphus) must continue to push the boulder up the hill. It is imperative for us and our children and their children.

[Hydra]

48. Unfortunately, your friends are naive

There's no guarantee that the pendulum will swing back. There are a group of people with a HELL of a lot of money who have bought our nation out from under us(if it was even ours to begin with).

They don't have our best interests at heart, and in fact, they think they're the only "people" and that we're some kind of lower class of sub-human that would be better off extinct.

All that remains is a simple question- are they as amazing as they think they are? If they are, we're dead where we stand. If not...

[duhneece]

49. Don't let them take the Love!

Sometimes I have to turn off all electronics, put on some music and move. Sometimes I need to get out doors. Sometimes I need to be touched. I've identified some friends I can call or talk to. I watch inspiring movies from Netflix (I searched for 'inspiring movie lists' or something).

I read of activists, still fighting in their 80's and 90's. I know we won't change the world before I die, but I want to remain active on the side of justice, however grand that sounds.

[Odin2005]

52. The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice. -MLK Jr.

History is on our side, that the main thing that is keeping me going.

[NNN0LHI]

53. You are about the same age as me so I can't help but wonder how you waited until 2000 ...

... to become curious about politics?

Weren't you aware of what was happening around you during the Reagan and Bush 1 administrations?

Unemployment hit 10.8% during Reagan's term. Didn't it occur to you back then that what was happening wasn't so good? You stayed nonpolitical through that?

I have to ask, what happened to bring you to this come to Jesus moment after Gore lost but not during the nightmare of living through Reagan?

Why didn't you ever consider getting involved in politics back when this was all beginning? Because if you and a lot more people would have done the right thing back then we might not be in the predicament we find ourselves in today.

Don

[NRaleighLiberal]

54. I meant actively engaged. When Reagan won I was in grad school....

I got married young, started a family and got involved with...well, life - digging out of our financial hole, trying to cope with the corporate world (I am not a corporate type). I hated the Reagan years, the Bush I years, got disillusioned with the Clinton years (so much promise, but so much more than could have been).....

Hope that helps - we make our choices and we live with them. I have a great marriage of 30 years and two great daughters - so the time was pretty well invested I think.

[NNN0LHI]

56. I was laid of during most of the 1980's so I was really paying attention

I married young too(17), and was trying to raise a young family(Two great daughters too), during that period so that is why it hits me odd when someone says they were too occupied to be politically active during that time.

And to this day I am still digging out of that financial hole I found myself in during the 1980's.

Thanks for your honesty and it was nice talking to you.

Don

[NRaleighLiberal]

57. Honesty is all I know! Right back at you....

I really respect those that have an appetite for politics, esp through their whole lives. But when we are young we make our choices, we find ourselves in our circumstances - can't change the past, but we can do what we can when the need really comes to the fore.