Does Obama want to lose? Obama said to be ready to propose Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security cuts

[WI_DEM]

And what will he get in return from the GOP? Nothing! as usual. He isn't going to have an excited base turning out in 2012. It could be 2010 all over again if this is correct:

According to the Financial Times, President Obama is going to propose cuts of "several hundred billion dollars from Medicare and Medicaid," when he presents his proposal for deficit reduction next Monday.
The FT reports that the proposal is expected to include the "grand bargain" policies the White House put on the table in the debt ceiling negotiations with Speaker John Boehner: "$150bn extracted from Medicare providers such as doctors and hospitals, $150bn coming from Medicare beneficiaries, and $125bn coming out of reforms to Medicaid," including "an increase in the eligibility age for Medicare." Additionally, the administration could propose more flexibility in negotiating drug prices and access to cheaper generic drugs.

While the administration has downplayed Social Security changes, and in fact Obama left Social Security out of his jobs speech while asserting that Medicare and Medicaid cuts had to happen, the chained CPI could be part of this proposal. The Medicaid cuts, among the least discussed of the "reforms," would be cuts to federal payments to states in the form of a "blended rate" formula for reimbursements.

www.dailykos.com

[MineralMan]

1. Did they name any sources?

Bet they didn't. "Some say..." "It's been said..." "We hear..." that's the usual deal.

Let's hear it from President Obama. He hasn't said any such thing.

[WI_DEM]

3. And if he does, then what?

[MineralMan]

10. Then it would be news. So far, it's all speculation by people

who don't actually know any facts. That's easy to do.

As far as I have been able to determine, President Obama has never used the word cuts at all when it comes to these programs. Changes. Reforms. Not cuts. Nothing specific has ever come out of the White House. That does not mean it is not going to happen. It just means people are only speculating about it.

It is not news. It is speculation.

[Cal33]

40. I wouldn't be surprised if these rumors were started by right-wingers. Don't forget,

these guys are spreading their propaganda and lies 24/7.
They sure do work hard!

[grantcart]

39. and if he doesn't are you going to post a thread decrying all of the

incorrect and harmful speculation that goes on day after day and consistently turns out to be false.

And pledge to discontinue the practice in the future?

Didn't think so.

[dtexdem]

6. And if he DOES do it, he loses my vote.

But let's hope that he doesn't.

[MineralMan]

15. Yes. That's what they hope will happen.

This is all so transparent. Lacking any statement from the White House regarding this, it's bullshit. If they announce it, it will be news.

I'm weary of speculation being posted as news here. How much of it have we heard that ended up being bullshit? Tons, and the manure storage area is full.

[elleng]

7. THANK YOU, MM.

MAY keep me from drinking or smoking tonight, knowing that SOMEONE here gets it.

[Little Star]

14. I'm not trying to be a wise ass but...

have you never heard of trial balloons? Well, I think they send them up to see how they will float. And I think we are suppose to react to these so that our congress critters hear from us.

In other words I think you are incorrect to purpose that we wait till obama says such a thing. No?

[MineralMan]

18. What are your plans other than waiting?

What is it that you think you will do? The same story has been bandied about for a long, long time and there has been no corroboration. How long do we have to listen to speculation pretending to be news? I'm sick of it.

Bring me some news.

The bottom line is that you have no role in whether such cuts happens or not. No role whatever. If the White House calls for them, you can protest that move. The White House has never done so. You're barking at the moon here.

[Little Star]

24. I'm sick of many things myself. However on this one you'll..

have to tell the Obama Admin about your disapproval of their timing on this trial balloon.

I disagree with your premise that We/I have no role. Do you not understand that when a trial balloon is floated we are suppose to let our reps know what we think of them?

I'm not going to argue with you about this. If we were suppose to just wait for Obama to make a announcement the WH would not bother floating trial balloons.

Talk about barking at the moon, you want us to bark after the sun has come up.:eyes:

[Donnachaidh]

27. yeah, that trial balloon worked so very well with the public option, huh?

:eyes:

This admin floats those balloons as a 10 second warning. They've YET to listen to the huge amount of voices going hoarse telling them to stop destroying the underpinnings of the social safety net.

[fascisthunter]

23. well said! (nt)

[markpkessinger]

26. Exactly. People shouldn't be so naive . . .

. . . as to think these things get floated accidentally.

[11 Bravo]

16. Exactly MM! Said by WHO? Hell, I've heard it "said" that the OP ...

has regular carnal knowledge of adolescents and small rodents. No sourcing, of course, but you know ... where there's smoke ...

[jwirr]

29. What does he mean when he says "on the table"?

[trueblue2007]

33. OF COURSE PRESIDENT DIDN'T SAY THAT. Why did the poster put this note up here

you got a specific agenda????
I thought this was a Democratic haven.

[newspeak]

43. actually, from his speech it sounded to me

that it was on the table if taxing the rich was on the table. Am I wrong?:shrug:

[elleng]

2. As Dems cry 'no reform,' we all lose.

DAMN!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x772440

[dtexdem]

12. "Reform" HAS come to mean attacks on SS and Medicare.

So, yes, true reform is needed; but that MUST be delayed until there is a political situation where that does not mean destruction.

I do not trust ANY politician who today touts "reform" in the programs.

But, hey, if you're serious about reforming SS, eliminate the FICA wage cap. Then think about increasing benefits.

[elleng]

25. 'Reform' SHOULD mean eliminating the wage cap.

It does not have to mean attacks on SS and Medicare; it only does have to mean that to foolish or ignorant people, or those with anti-Dem and/or anti-Obama agendas.

[louslobbs]

31. Exactly, by the time I earn $106,000, it's usually 4 months into the working year with my bonus and

salary for the next 8 months adding another $300,000 plus stock options and 50% matching 401k contributions. I'm also fortunate enough to have deferred compensation so that I can pay lower taxes on that money at a future date. So why not tax me on all of my income for Social Security? I'd appreciate it if they took the cap off for all of us who earn good income in today's lousy, Republican/corporate stalled recovery. Take the F'ing cap off you bunch of pathetic morans!
Lou

[chill_wind]

36. Pres Obama SHOULD stand, then, with Dems and Bernie Sanders

on this bill introduced today:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1940808#top

[polmaven]

4. Oh, good grief!

here we go again...This has been said to be set in stone SO many times, and it hasn't happened yet!!! Maybe we could just wait and see what his proposals are before automatically making accusations based on articles written by someone who really does not know anymore than we do.

[brentspeak]

5. Obama apparently wants his reelection to fail right away rather than later n/t

[WinkyDink]

22. He might very well be going "all in" at this point.

[MineralMan]

8. Of course, the Financial Times story is a subscriber only thing,

so we can't look at it. However, the Daily Kos story names no names as sources. It's the usual "Some say..." crap all over again. "The Obama Administration is expected to...

When someone comes up with some actual information, rather than speculation about what "might" happen, or what is "expected" to happen, then we'll have some news. So far, it's more speculation. Interestingly enough, there was none of this in the Jobs Bill. Not one word. When is this supposed to happen, actually?"

[WI_DEM]

11. Yes, lets see what happens as you say. Will he raise the MC benefit age?

will he make cuts to social security and MC programs. If he doesn't then this story is crap. If he does do these things then it will be another blow to progressive ideas.

[MineralMan]

13. I can't answer your questions. Neither can the pundits who

are saying all this shit without any factual backup. Why are you posting speculation as though it were fact? Now, there's a question you can answer. I'll wait.

[HereSince1628]

9. This'll be like a priest putting a cherished ram on the alter.

I hope this really isn't true, because all Obama will get back from such a grand gesture to the gods of politics is exactly what every sacrificing priest has ever gotten for a portion of the butchered meat...bloody hands.

[patrice]

17. Physicians for a National Health Program support HR 676 IMPROVED & Expanded Medicare for All

Read Title II - Finances > Subtitle A - Budgeting and Payments for Senator John Conyers and PNHP's recommendations for how Medicare can be improved by CUTTING Payments and making various other ANNUAL operations recommendations, including staffing and capital expenditures.

http://www.pnhp.org/sites/default/files/docs/2011/HR676-Feb-11-2011.pdf

[patrice]

19. IOW, there are Medicare cuts and then there are Medicare cuts. Some can improve the quality of care

by doing things like removing middle-wo/men who are between care-givers and care-receivers and some can either interfere with or reduce the quality of care by not dealing with Medicare's systemic flaws.

Which kind of cuts happen will depend upon the extent of public knowledge about what exactly is proposed and who responds how.

[patrice]

20. P.S. This is where/when "the Left" proves that it is in fact the Left or not. nt

[loyalsister]

44. + 1000

Thanks for posting. Many things are overlooked by misinformed outsiders of real policy discussions.
Of course there will be changes in Medicare over time. And there certainly will be changes to coordinate with the HCR.
I agree that presumptuous\unattributed language appears entirely too much on this topic.

[WinkyDink]

21. The poor and elderly must PAY for their existence! Why, the latter can't even go die in Afghanistan!

[jwirr]

28. Not only will his base be angry but those illusive independent voters

he is chasing will to. There is no one but the gop and Tbaggers that want the big 3 cut. I agree - does he want to lose?

[bananas]

30. Here's the link to the article on dailykos

For those of us wondering what the OP is talking about:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/14/1016927/-Obama-said-to-be-ready-to-propose-Medicare,-Medicaid,-Social-Security-benefit%C2%A0cuts?via=blog_1

Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 12:18 PM PDT

Obama said to be ready to propose Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security benefit cuts
by Joan McCarter

According to the Financial Times, President Obama is going to propose cuts of "several hundred billion dollars from Medicare and Medicaid," when he presents his proposal for deficit reduction next Monday.

The FT reports that the proposal is expected to include the "grand bargain" policies the White House put on the table in the debt ceiling negotiations with Speaker John Boehner: "$150bn extracted from Medicare providers such as doctors and hospitals, $150bn coming from Medicare beneficiaries, and $125bn coming out of reforms to Medicaid," including "an increase in the eligibility age for Medicare." Additionally, the administration could propose more flexibility in negotiating drug prices and access to cheaper generic drugs.

While the administration has downplayed Social Security changes, and in fact Obama left Social Security out of his jobs speech while asserting that Medicare and Medicaid cuts had to happen, the chained CPI could be part of this proposal. The Medicaid cuts, among the least discussed of the "reforms," would be cuts to federal payments to states in the form of a "blended rate" formula for reimbursements.

The New York Time's Robert Pear writes about the political hurdles for Obama with these proposals.

<snip>

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[unkachuck]

34. if he proposes....

....actual cuts in Medicaid and especially in Social Security and Medicare, he will lose big-time in 2012....

....from across the political spectrum, people will show up at the polls just to vote him out of office and to keep their benefits coming....

....there seems to be a self-destructive lemming quality about politicians who want to attack our social safety net....

[newspeak]

45. well, then there better be a primary choice

because I sure as hell ain't going to be voting for a sociopathic, dense as dirt repug!!!!! Times are too crucial for anyone to stay home.

[chill_wind]

35. Americans by a large majority want the President and Congress to focus on Jobs

not deficits.

6. If you had to choose, would you rather see Barack Obama and Congress pay more attention to
reducing the budget deficit, or more attention to creating more jobs?
Sept. 9-11
2011

Deficit 29%
Jobs 65%
Both equally (vol.) 6%
Neither (vol.) *
No opinion *

Two-thirds believe that creating jobs should take precedence over the federal budget deficit and only 29 percent say reducing the deficit should be more important that reducing unemployment.

New CNN poll:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/14/cnn-poll-more-americans-trust-obama-on-economy-over-republicans-in-congress/

That's been true overall for a long time now, despite Washington's obsession, and the GOP's in particular, with the deficit. It's going to be bad if he doesn't stay with the message.

Americans remain in a foul mood with the economy and Washington in general.

U.S. Wrong Track/Right Track

09/12/11 Bloomberg permalink Wrong Track 72.0% Right Track 20.0%
09/01/11 Politico/GWU permalink Wrong Track 72.0% Right Track 19.0%
09/01/11 ABC/WaPo permalink Wrong Track 77.0% Right Track 20.0%
08/31/11 NBC/WSJ permalink Wrong Track 73.0% Right Track 19.0%
08/28/11 Rasmussen permalink Wrong Track 76.0% Right Track 16.0%
08/22/11 AP/GfK permalink Wrong Track 75.0% Right Track 21.0%
08/22/11 AP/GfK permalink Wrong Track 75.0% Right Track 21.0%
08/21/11 Rasmussen permalink Wrong Track 79.0% Right Track 14.0%
08/14/11 Rasmussen permalink Wrong Track 80.0% Right Track 15.0%
08/08/11 Ipsos permalink Wrong Track 73.0% Right Track 21.0%
08/07/11 PPP (D) permalink Wrong Track 76.0% Right Track 14.0%
08/04/11 Marist permalink Wrong Track 72.0% Right Track 21.0%

http://polltracker.talkingpointsmemo.com/contests/us-right-trackwrong-track


Poll finds majority pessimistic on Obama job plan, economy
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/181401-poll-majority-pessimistic-on-obama-jobs-plan

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-14/obama-approval-drops-on-skepticism-of-jobs-plan.html

Even if they doubt Obama and Congress can get it done, even if there is varying support for varying parts of it over other parts of it, they like it that at least there is finally a recognition that there needs to be priority and a plan. (see CNN poll.) And they think the GOP SUCKS on the economy.


Returning to focusing on entitlement cuts are not going to be good for whatever momentum Dems have going, unless they finally start FIGHTING those cuts, rather than bargaining them away.

*Poll: Majority Don’t Want Entitlement Cuts To Reduce Deficit*

July 2011
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/poll-majority-dont-want-entitlement-cuts-to-reduce-deficit.php

Is ANYONE in Washington listening? Anyone? Anyone??

[KOfan]

37. Aww hell nawww!

What the f*ck is going on with his advisers? They better not go backwards, are these reliable sources?

[bobthedrummer]

38. k, n/t

[closeupready]

41. Republicans will come back with, "You know, we really ought to end these wasteful social programs en

entirely. Meet us halfway."

[bobthedrummer]

42. A Democratic Socialist kick. n/t