Which is worse?

[Safetykitten]

Having republicans tell you to your face that they have no problems telling you they want you to die, or our method of promising to help you with HC but saying it's coming soon, wait, just hang on, and being part of the system that is cutting the programs that keep people alive now?

[MineralMan]

1. I find your distorted spin on this to be worse.

How's that?

[Safetykitten]

2. What reality are you in? Programs that exist now are up for cuts.

[MineralMan]

5. The only reality that exists.

Why do you ask?

[Safetykitten]

6. Prove that cutting existing social programs does not effect people in health.

[MineralMan]

7. Which programs have been cut?

Who is proposing cutting those programs in the future?

Think carefully.

[Safetykitten]

8. We are. I missed the day when the President said that he will not cut SS or Medicare.

Maybe you can point me to that.

[MineralMan]

9. I will do that, at the time you point out the day where he said

he'd cut those things. Cut, not reform. How many cuts to those programs has he actually proposed? What cuts to those programs are in the Jobs Bill?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Safetykitten]

4. Personal attacks aside, cutting social programs does kill people.

[kctim]

10. Hard to say

seeing how neither is true.

[Safetykitten]

11. There are no plans to cut SS or Medicare now. In any way?

[kctim]

12. You are the one

claiming people want you to die and that programs that keep people alive are being cut, so maybe you can prove such rhetoric and give us something to work with.

[MineralMan]

13. Actually, no. At least not from the President.

I was sure you had a list of cuts he had specifically proposed. Apparently you do not. Perhaps it's time to go see if you can find any. We'll wait.

[Safetykitten]

14. From information in another post...

"Is President Obama trying to kill Social Security without explicitly saying so? He put Social Security "on the table" for consideration by his Deficit Commission -- even though Social Security has not contributed to creating or sustaining the deficit/debt in the first place. He kept Social Security on the table when he made a deal to delegate deficit reduction authority over entitlements to an undemocratic Super Committee. Now, in a speech reportedly about jobs, he proposed to extend and increase the ill-considered FICA tax cut he embraced last December -- a tax cut that directly undermines the financial integrity of Social Security."

[MineralMan]

15. Oh dear. Not a single word about cuts.

And not a single quotation from the President. Again, show me where the President has proposed actual cuts at any time. Yes, there is a proposal to temporarily reduce FICA payments in specific situations. Temporary and not linked to any reduction in any of those programs.

Cuts. You talked about cuts. Find something the President said that calls for cuts in Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. Don't rely on other people's commentaries that don't answer the question. Show me where the President has called for cuts in those programs. I can read, you know. I can tell the difference between third party projections and actual words from the President. He has mentioned "changes." He has mentioned "reforms." I can think of a number of changes and reforms that would be very beneficial to those programs, and would actually improve the way they work for their recipients. He has never referred to cuts. That is my recollection, anyhow. If you can find some statements where he referred to cuts or reductions in benefits, then I will be very interested to see them.

As I said, I'll wait patiently for your response.

[dionysus]

16. don't hold your breath, i wouldn't want you to turn blue.

:hi:

[MineralMan]

17. I'm breathing just fine, thanks! nt

[TheKentuckian]

18. In context, it can't be almost anything but cuts and we all know it.

You think we are getting a cap increase through Congress? How about lowering the eligibility age? How about new revenue streams?

Unless the President has found that magic wand his die hards are always going on about, we are talking cuts.

Seriously, you folks know what kind of "reforms" "some in my party" won't like and you know full well they aren't raising the cap. The "plausible denial" here isn't very plausible.

[MineralMan]

20. We have a chance. That chance comes in 2012.

We can either take it or squander it. 2011 and most of 2012 is going to be a holding pattern. That has been obvious since the 2010 election. No, we're not going to get a cap increase through Congress. We're not going to expand Medicare or any such thing. That's been obvious since last November. The very best we're going to get with this Congress is to hold a line.

So, what we must do is reverse the course in 2012. We must create a Congress that will support those things. We must get our state legislatures back on track. In the meantime, we must hold Congress from doing what is harmful to the nation. Anyone who expects more is engaging in wishful thinking. In order to have the things you're talking about and that we all want, we must work our asses off in 2012 and turn this ship around.

We cannot expect President Obama to do what it is not in his power to do. We can expect him to try to hold a line against a Congress that has only one goal. Then, we must rebuild Congress in 2012. We must deal with realities, not unreachable goals. 2011 and 2012 are going to be years where we can only hold our ground, if we can even do that.

Condemning President Obama for failing to do the impossible isn't productive in any way.

[TheKentuckian]

22. He isn't talking reforms in 2013 but now so what could that be in the current context

other than cuts?

If we are to "hold" then there is no way on Earth we can be reforming anything.

Everything you say indicates Obama is talking cuts, nothing else makes the slightest bit of sense in these circumstances and if we are honest, I don't think anyone can reasonably disagree.

[TwilightGardener]

19. Well, this is dumb.

[dionysus]

21. not as bad as the jumpers post.