Repugs are "pro-life" for one reason only - To control women

[Ohio Joe]

They do not care about babies after they are born.

They are all for invading other countries and killing their inhabitants.

They do not care about the old. They do not care about this sick. They do not care about the poor. They can all die.

The only time they care about "life" is when it allows them to control women.

[provis99]

1. yeah, it's pretty obvious now.

Just like it's pretty obvious their tax cutting policy is all about coddling the rich, not this job creating baloney.

[Tony_FLADEM]

2. Not exactly

They are "pro-life" on the abortion issue because it helps with their economic agenda. It's easier to be against abortion than it is to fund government programs that help children living in poverty. They take the "moral" position on abortion so they don't have to be moral when it comes to economic issues.

[ljm2002]

15. If it were only an economic issue to them...

...then they'd be all for birth control and the availability of safe, legal abortions. When birth control is widely available, there are fewer abortions. There are also fewer unwanted children or children born into abject poverty, and as a result the government does not need to spend as much to provide support services. Since they give no weight to such arguments, I cannot see how their primary concern is an economic one.

[Tony_FLADEM]

18. Being against abortion allows them to be immoral on economic issues

They establish empathy and morality by saying they are against abortion. This allows them to cut government programs that help the poor and use that money to cut taxes for the rich.

[hifiguy]

35. Plus, they want cannon fodder

for the endless energy wars in Whereveristan and the more poor children there are, the easier it makes the arguments to punish the "overbreeding parasite" class.

You don't see this much pure psychopathy in the average loony bin.

[justabob]

39. and more white babies

to counter the growing minority population. It is all very ugly.

[Cerridwen]

3. Yes. But why?

Who benefits? Of what use is it to control half the population? Why women? Why that half of the population?

Keep following that thread.

[Ohio Joe]

8. Good question... I do not know the answer

I expect they do see something they define as a benefit but I have never been able to see it.

[XemaSab]

4. A couple years ago I would have said that this was hyperbole

after spending serious time looking into the beliefs of the far right fundies, I think this is dead on.

[Skittles]

5. CORRECT

[ProfessionalLeftist]

6. Yep. That's exactly it. n/t

[fishwax]

7. k/r

:kick:

[backscatter712]

9. George Carlin hits it right on the nose!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XekUEXULMXg

[LuckyLib]

31. He is right on target. Among other gems, "when some of these cardinals and bishops

have experienced pregnancy and labor pains and raised a couple of children on minimum wage I will be glad to hear what they have to say about abortion . . ."

[applegrove]

10. Abortion is just a social issue which they can get people to vote for rich people's interests on.

The GOP will never try and make abortion illegal. They need it as a wedge issue to much. I don't even think it is about controlling women really. It is about controlling the wealth and the rich want it all to themselves.

[bettyellen]

12. but why do the masses go along with it? not to help the rich

that;s for sure.

[Ohio Joe]

13. No offense but... You have not been paying attention the last few years

Red states have passed a frightening number of laws restricting abortion and have it all but outlawed in more then one state.

[RZM]

20. Yes but their holy grail is a federal ban on abortion

And like I said below, they've been raising money on that promise for decades and really aren't any closer to it than they were 30 years ago.

[Ohio Joe]

36. I do not buy that anymore

It may have been their holy grail but they have changed tactics... And not made it a secret. For years now they have put far more focus on taking out womens rights on a state by state basis and they have made great progress. Yes, it is true that the topic is used for fund raising to great effect but they have also been following it up with frightening numbers of state laws restricting womans rights.

[RZM]

19. I think it's even simpler than that

It's a useful fundraising tool. Republicans have raised a whole lot of $$ on it over the years yet their base really doesn't have much to show for it.

[sakabatou]

11. George Carlin knew about this for a while

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM

[slackmaster]

14. This oversimplification is closer to the truth than the "economic interests" thread

But it's still an oversimplification.

[REP]

16. Not just Republicans - ALL so-called "pro-lifers" who act to outlaw abortion

Every. Single. One. I don't care what they call themselves; inwardly they are as ravening wolves, as one gifted translator put it about that sort of 'person.'

[RZM]

17. Different people have different reasons

Most anti-abortion people I've met have been devout Christians (usually Catholic). My sense is that they believe that a fetus is a 'blank slate' sin-wise and deserves to be born because it has done nothing wrong. Probably it also ties in with the notion that the miracle of life is an expression of God's love and it's not humanity's place to undo his good work. Or something like that.

As an aside, far from all Republicans are for invading other countries. RW isolationism has a long tradition in America and my sense is that lingering doubts over Bush's foreign debacles have actually helped that crowd out. Just read any Pat Buchanan column about Iraq or Afghanistan. If you took his name off and reposted them here, some would probably make it to the greatest page.

[Cerridwen]

21. Where are the women in that discussion? n/t

[RZM]

22. Well

I'm sure over the years plenty of people have posed that question to them. They'd probably say that a woman's ability to carry children is also part of God's plan and that nobody has any business interfering with the reproductive capacity that God has blessed women with.

[Cerridwen]

24. ..."nobody has any business interfering with the reproductive capacity"

Unless it is to force the "reproductive capacity" of women.

Just ruminate on that for a bit.

[RZM]

26. This is just my take on what they believe

It's not like I believe it. I think what you are arguing is that restricting abortion has the effect of unfairly controlling women's behavior and impinges on their rights. I absolutely agree, but that's not really what the OP was arguing (though I assume he agrees with that assessment).

The OP argued that the only reason Republicans oppose abortion (and they aren't the only people who oppose it - Skinner allows DU posters to argue against abortion, though you almost never see that here) is because they want to control women and I think that's way too simplistic an argument. Like I said, my experience has shown me that their motivations have more to do with stuff about the sanctity of life (especially fetal life) and God's plan and all of that. Saying that such positions have the effect of controlling women is not at all the same as saying their reasons for holding those positions are because oppressing women is the goal. They would probably angrily rebut that assertion by talking about how abortion is murder and that laws against murdering a person after they leave the womb don't oppress anybody and why are abortion laws any different?

Maybe you think that in the end it doesn't matter - if the effect of implementing such beliefs is unfair control of women's behavior, that's bad enough and who cares what the real reasons are. Maybe you would be right about that . . . I don't know, but that's not what the OP was arguing either.

[Withywindle]

23. Yes, and as soon as they're no longer these imaginary pure blank slates

then they're less important. Anyone with any memories, life experience, questioning, opinions, desires, etc....is less valuable than a 'blank slate.' Because they're tainted by sin. Or something. So the ideal human is one who's completely ignorant of the world, with absolutely no agency of any kind?

Something like one-quarter of all fertilizations end in spontaneous miscarriage, often before the woman has any clue at all that she's pregnant. So obviously not all sinless blank slates are worthy of life in God's eyes.

[RZM]

27. I think you're probably right about that

In their framework, once people start exercising their ability to make choices, they are fair game. But a fetus can't do that, thus the opposition to abortion.

As for the last part, you're right too, although I'm sure they could tie that in to other arguments about 'bad things happening to good people' and all of that. Apparently God works in mysterious ways ;)

[coalition_unwilling]

25. Best not to call those nutjobs 'pro-life' either, as that buys their

term. Better by far to call them 'anti-choice'.

It's misogyny trying to appear respectable by cloaking itself in seeming morality. Conveniently ignores the fact that Mother Nature herself sees fit to spontaneously terminate about 50-60% of all conceptions (if I remember my genetics class from long ago correctly).

[samsingh]

28. you may have a point

[Tommy_Carcetti]

29. Let's be intellectually honest here.

What you said in the body of your paragraph may indeed be correct, at least by their practices.

But the problem I have with both sides of the abortion debate is the extent they go to in order to "frame" the issue their way and repeat bumper sticker slogans ad nauseum, and totally ignore any type of actual rational discourse in the process.

People who oppose abortion usually feel that way because they believe a fetus to be a human life and believe the procedure thus kills a human life. Whether you or I agree or disagree with that assessment is a totally seperate issue. But that's why they feel the way you do, at least on a conscious level. I highly doubt many anti-abortion advocates feel the way they for the primary purpose of controlling women. The entire abortion debate can probably summed up by the fact that each respective side simply places the entire focus 100% on either the fetus, or the woman, (while seemingly ignoring the fact that the situation to whatever extent--50/50, 90/10, 10/90--involves the interests of both.)

So people who are anti-abortion advocates feel the way they do not (at least consiously) to control women no more than people who are abortion rights advocates feel the way they do because they want to kill babies, which is basically the false counter-argument thrown out there.

[Ohio Joe]

33. Sorry, I dis-agree

"People who oppose abortion usually feel that way because they believe a fetus to be a human life and believe the procedure thus kills a human life."

If this were indeed true, they would care about other life and not just un-born life. It is bullshit, I do not care what excuse they verbalize, their actions show the truth.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

42. I agree that there is a displacement of priorities there for them.

But that only goes to the extent of the self-proclaimed "pro-life" moniker. And only to those who seem to ignore other forms and stages of life. There are some who oppose abortion who also are vocal in opposition to the death penalty, euthanasia, policies that negatively affect quality of life, etc.

But to say people who oppose abortion do so solely to control women is just intellectually dishonest. Perhaps too many of them don't consider the countering interests of the woman in the situation, but I doubt that spare very, very, very few of them, the reason they believe what they believe is to "control women."

[Yavin4]

30. No Exception for Rape

Therefore, any man can rape any woman and force that woman to carry his child to term.

They believe that women are the domain of men. That's what they believe.

[arbusto_baboso]

32. Their fixation on gender roles shows that truth. Which is why they are so exorcised about same-sex

marriage. That blasts all their little myths about gender roles out of the water completely.

[Uncle Joe]

34. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Ohio Joe.

[The Genealogist]

37. Yep

I believe you are quite correct.

[tgal]

38. Exactly!

Thanks Ohio Joe.


tgal

[Ilsa]

40. It is the issue that binds religious poor people to voting not in their own best interest. nt

[femrap]

41. K and R

You got the Truth, Ohio Joe!