Fuck all the shitheads trying to manipulate me and the rest of America using 9/11.

[backscatter712]

Seriously. I don't want to hear no fucking Lee Greenwood. I don't want to see no fucking flag-waving. I'm fed up with the teabaggers abusing this holiday to demand we blow up more brown people. Fuck law-enforcement using 9/11 to demand we allow them to molest us more at the airports and elsewhere. Fuck the politicians who tell us that we're supposed to be proud of a country that has acted shamefully for ten fucking years.

Don't tell me I have to be respectful for all this jingoistic bullshit. Because I won't, and if anybody doesn't like it, they can kiss my ass!

[NightWatcher]

1. I tried to rec it, but I'd buy you a beer instead.

[white_wolf]

2. My thoughts excatly. I tried to rec, but it's still at 0.

[timtom]

76. Well it was at zero

but I rec'd it and now it's at +124.

I have much mojo.

[defendandprotect]

191. It's finally up to 377 REC's -- !!

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. I did not go near it all day... We showed up intentionally late for the

football game. We didn't turn on the television so...I have no idea what you are talking about. :)

[greytdemocrat]

4. 9/11 is a holiday???

Who knew!!! Thx!

[Cary Vonfused]

65. Unfortunately, some are trying to make it that.

The calendar on my wall actually has it marked as "Patriot Day". Thank God I didn't pay for the thing.

It doesn't have "Pearl Harbor Day" on Decemeber 7, or any other war-related dates marked, aside from the federally recognized holidays, Veterans Day and Memorial Day. It has all the other big holidays, at least the Christian based ones listed. None of the Jewish holidays, and none of the solstices or equinoxes at change of seasons.

I don't know who printed the thing, but it was a freebee from a local tribal casino, and as far as I know, they aren't rabid Bush lovers, so I'm stumped as to how this fake holiday deserved a mention when so many more deserving days didn't get one.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[99th_Monkey]

56. -1

[Ken Burch]

68. wait...what?

You're saying this poster is less than ten years old?

Classy, dude.

And who are YOU to be this judgmental about how someone else reacts to this day? It's not as if there's only one acceptable response to the anniversary.

[patrice]

149. 1+ "Who are you . . . " All of us NEED to apply our judgements to ourselves 1st & admit that

up front. This helps to make the point that whatever truth we offer is so important that it applies to one's self too, or, really, more so than it does to others.

[Stuckinthebush]

107. I was

and can absolutely understand the posters feelings. Personally, I'm glad it is 9/12 so we can hold off for at least one more year with the "celebrations".

[Javaman]

116. probably the most epic fail in the history of DU.

grow up.

[texshelters]

166. Okay, why was it a "fail"

and why should the poster "grow up".

Drive buy insults just demonstrate how incapable you are of making a cogent argument or statement.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[Javaman]

211. His post was deleted. need I say more?

Cheers! :)

[H2O Man]

6. I try to separate

what is important about 9/11 from what is obscene. That required the television to be off yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

[graywarrior]

8. +1000

[Octafish]

182. That's where the NFL comes in.

From his two-minute lookitme narrative leading into his coast-to-coast pro football broadcasts, Rupert Murdoch gave the giggling, mass-murderering, election-stealing traitor and his fascistic hoard more than ample loads of free air time. All of Corporate McPravda held a field day dishing a special deluxe double-toxic orgy of psyop semiotic stew mixing an aroma of fatality all the psychic triggers for revenge. Of course, unmentioned, apart from a brief image of a lone fan wielding a sign back in the upper deck somewhere, was the Pat Tillman story. No where at all was mention of leading America into war under false pretenses.

[sufrommich]

7. Alrighty then, cowboy. nt

[Ron Green]

9. What you said. K&R

[RKP5637]

10. Haven't watched one bit of it here. It's propaganda now, used for manipulation. Also, some

are making big bucks off others misery, for example, M$M.

[Autumn]

11. My husband turned on the TV and Paul Simon came on

when he was done so was the TV. I don't blame you a bit.

[tblue]

12. Just wait til it becomes a day of sales and shopping.

And soon there'll be a line of greeting cards.

[chill_wind]

33. That just gave me the creeps

when remembering BushCo telling everyone to go shopping. Nothing seems so much a stretch anymore, when it comes someone, somewhere, figuring out how to market and parlay another new buck out of tragedy, but simply a matter of time.

[soupkitchen]

133. How long till the take $9.11 off sales?

[WiffenPoof]

60. Well Said...

and probably true.

-P

[cyberpj]

111. I wondered the same thing -- how soon Hallmark would jump on it. nt

[Javaman]

118. It already has...

while there are no "sorry for your loss" greeting cards yet, there was a huge sales pack in our sunday paper.

It was as big as the one for Labor Day.

While it's not technically advertised, it's certainly being slowly brainwashed upon the American citizens to think "buy" instead of feeling sorrow.

Just buy your blues away. It's the corporate american way!

[Initech]

13. The irony of the teabaggers is their warped, twisted version of American history.

They know NOTHING about what the constitution really says, they know NOTHING about what our founding fathers really stood for, they know NOTHING about what Obama is really doing, they know NOTHING. They also seem to know NOTHING about the Nazis, who they love to make comparisons to anyone who doesn't fit their profile. And they're shoving this crap in our faces 24 hours a day. It's pretty revolting. If they would take a fucking history lesson, they might actually learn something.

[ladym55]

27. But they sure do like to wave the flag around

Sadly I don't think they know how many stars are on it and how many stripes. I'm not sure they could name all 50 states much less place them on a map.

[Javaman]

119. They are the ones that make "good tv" for the networks to grab ratings.

corporate america sees opportunity in death. It's just doing the slow wind up.

in 20 or 30 years of our perpetual war based nation, 9/11 will become the next memorial day, but since it is on a fixed date, it will soon be moved to the 2nd or 3rd sunday in september, because it's too close to Labor Day. However, given the fact that our rights as workers are vanishing, Labor Day will eventually vanish and 9/11 day or whatever they eventually call it, will become the new holiday.

Once upon a time, I used to get Lincolns and Washington's birthday's off. Now there is only Presidents day.

See how it is?

we are sad nation.

[Enthusiast]

151. "If they would take a fucking history lesson"

Well that is OUT! They refuse to learn ANYTHING.

You would not believe the stupid e-mail I got from a right wing relative yesterday. It was all about how George Soros was mounting a campaign to remove the American flag from classrooms because it might offend the sensibilities of Hispanic and Muslim students. This is the kind of trash these people believe. They are the very sort of people that are vulnerable to Nazi-like propaganda. Idiocracy -we are living it.

[undeterred]

14. Grrrrrr

[dkf]

15. Do you think we should have changed absolutely nothing after 9/11?

No extra security, no extra effort to track people who want to kill us?

What exactly would you have wanted us to do?

[zippytheplatypus]

17. maybe they wouldn't want to kill us

If we left them alone & stopped trying to be the world police.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ixion]

28. ...

welcome to my ignore list.

[sabrina 1]

42. Well then, that make two of you by your logic!

But for the record, by my logic there is only one of you!

:hi:

[underseasurveyor]

49. Well Played,

and well said!

[RC]

44. Me thinks you should go look in a mirror.

[timtom]

77. Most idiotic reply on this board!

Ever!

[Puglover]

98. Educate yourself. It's good for you.

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1003-09.htm

[handmade34]

105. +1

[RoccoR5955]

110. BINGO!!! That hit the nail on the head!

The real reason for the "attacks," if you remember, was because US troops were in the Islamic Holy Land in Saudi Arabia. Why the hell did we need troops there?

[Enthusiast]

153. The only reason for Gulf War one

was because Saddam Hussein got mixed messages from the U.S.

They wanted him to invade Kuwait so we could have a massive display of power and make some money for the MIC. It was as much bullshit as the Iraq War under Dubya.

[cpwm17]

173. To bomb Iraq,

control the oil, and make the ME safe for our precious little alleged ally.

The US, during the Clinton administration, bombed Iraq about every three days from Saudi Arabia. Obviously Saudi citizens weren't happy about that.

[ixion]

26. treat it as a criminal offense, rather than a military one, for starters

and then stick to the Rule of Law and the Constitution rather than throwing both out the window and opting instead for drunken vigilantism.

[RC]

45. That is what Clinton did. He got them and no war either.

[dkf]

47. You can't get suicide bombers. They get themselves.

Does the OP like what we did to get Bin Laden? Or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed? I wonder.

[RC]

53. What part of an international police investigation do you not understand?

The whole world was offering to help us right after 9/11 and bush squandered it all with his lies and senseless wars.

The hi-jackers were not acting on their own.

[dkf]

64. I see that an international police investigation wouldn't have gotten us Bin Laden

From a complicit Pakistani Govt. I don't trust them to turn him over. I used to believe it could be done through the justice system, but after seeing Pakistan in action I don't believe it anymore.

[Javaman]

121. every problem is a nail. nt

[ooglymoogly]

154. No you have it all wrong...the way to get Bin Laden was to go to war with Iraq. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

162. Never mind that he was not in Pakistan, but in Afghanistan, and when

Bush declared that the Taliban (who he'd been in negotiations with over the pipeline just weeks earlier) were equally responsible that shut off ANY possibility of pressuring them into arresting and handing over Bin Laden - which they had previously offered to do, after the Embassy bombings. We could have had Bin Laden and broken up Al Queda by December '01 if we had not declared war.

Of course, doing THAT would have forestalled our illegal attack on Iraq, so we COULDN'T do that.

[dkf]

207. We did rely on the Afghanis to get Bin Laden.

That is why he got away. Same story.

[RaleighNCDUer]

212. AFTER we declared (or not) war on them.

If we had NOT decided to take the Taliban out, they very likely would have cooperated with taking out Bin Laden. After trying to destroy them, what incentive did they have?

Or do you really think all Afghanis are alike?

AQ were foreigners in Afghanistan. Mostly Saudi, Yemeni, Jordanian, Palestinian and Egyptian. The Taliban offered him up to us once before - after he betrayed their hospitality by launching an attack on the US from their country they had NO reason to have any loyalty to him. He was a guest who had dishonored them.

OTOH, we attack THEM, and that solidified any alliance with him, as the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

We (the Bushies) fucked up.

It is simplistic thinking like yours that got us in this mess.

[dkf]

213. So you think a Pakistani police action would have got Bin Laden in Pakistan?

[RaleighNCDUer]

214. don't change the subject -

We're talking about the fallacious reasons for going to war, not something that happened ten years AFTER we started the war.

[dkf]

216. I thought we were debating how realistic using the international justice system is.

I certainly think Iraq was pure idiocy and indefensible. But Obama's decision to go after Osama Bin Laden was the only way to get him.

[RaleighNCDUer]

219. Re-read the thread, if you've lost track of what we're talking about.

Your post #15, Ixion's post #26. THAT is what we're talking about. YOU immediately start dragging it off topic, and not answering the posts directed at you.

"But Obama's decision to go after Osama Bin Laden was the only way to get him." OF COURSE it was - after 10 years of war. The original point was that had it been handled differently, back in Sept 01, the war need not have happened. The Taliban were barely hanging onto power - they KNEW they would not survive a full scale war with America. They WOULD have turned Bin Laden over to us, had we handled it right and framed the need for it in both Pashtun cultural mores (Bin Laden betrayed them while their guest, thus abrogating any responsibility of theirs to protect him) and Islamic law (waging war against women and children is specifically forbidden in the Koran). That would have given them an 'out' and allowed us to get Bin Laden before the end of '01. Without a war.

[defendandprotect]

193. US/CIA created Taliban/Al Qaeda financing it via ISI-Pakistan up to 9/11 ....

and maybe even later -- who knows?

Bin Laden was likely just another CIA asset as Mohammed Atta was -- which has

been confirmed.

The "hijackers" were trained by the US --


See Susan Lindauer video/TEXT recap -- Whistleblower -- CIA asset --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x321024#321175

[defendandprotect]

195. True -- PNAC had been trying to push him to attack Iraq after first attack on WTC ..!!

[dflprincess]

30. Do you think it was right to use it as an excuse to invade a country

that had nothing to do with the attacks?

[dkf]

48. Iraq was obviously wrong and lame.

I don't consider it had anything to do with 9/11.

[Frank Cannon]

74. "Wrong and lame"? You certainly are a master of understatement.

[Enthusiast]

155. Afghanistan also had nothing to do with 9/11.

No nation-state attacked us on 9/11.

[ooglymoogly]

156. Gee by your precise logic...Jeofrey Daumer and John Wayne Gacy

Were harmful to some folks.

[defendandprotect]

196. MIC was fighting for a war with Iraq and didn't want a settlement re sanctions ....

Read what Susan Lindauer -- CIA asset -- has to say about that --

We were close to removing the sanctions on Iraq -- which MIC didn't want to happen!




http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x321024#321175

[RaleighNCDUer]

215. NEITHER DID AFGHANISTAN. nt

[pa28]

43. Maybe he'd like us to follow the example of the Norwegian PM next time.

His reaction to terror was find and punish those responsible as a matter of law and redouble Norway's commitment to democracy. I know that our own monstrous response 911 has undone our finances, rights and moral standing in the world.

When terrorists dictate your actions they win. At least that's what I heard from our political leaders until 911.

[dkf]

50. What do you think would have happened to travel if we instituted no security measures?

The xrays and patdowns are ridiculous, but the other travel precautions are legit. Frankly the incompetence of the ID systems are inexcusable.

And I wish we had gotten Bin Laden at Tora Bora.

[defendandprotect]

197. Nothing would have happened to travel --

but believing in US/CIA myth could probably destroy us --

[sudopod]

58. I like how Norway is handling things pretty well. nt

[dkf]

66. Since when is Norway such a huge target?

[Frank Cannon]

73. And why isn't Norway such a huge target?

Hmmmmm... Maybe we should start asking questions like that?

[Javaman]

122. +1 nt

[Frank Cannon]

72. It should have been treated as what it was, a LAW ENFORCEMENT matter.

And we should have worked with nations around the world to ensure that the people responsible were captured, tried, and thrown in dingy cells to eat spiders for the rest of their miserable lives.

And then, the rest of us should have moved on with our own lives, which would have been the ultimate fuck-you to the stone-age fundie fucksticks who "hate us for our freedoms".

Instead... well, we've all seen what has happened and what it's brought us to.

[blackspade]

106. +1000

[GoneOffShore]

140. Wish we could do the same to our own fundie fucksticks.

People who hate us for wanting to make things better.

[teachthemwell15]

169. Couldn't agree more..

I've said it for years on end. That our government handled it the way it did raises all kinds of motives and speculations, that have been voiced and that we have yet to encounter.

[freedom fighter jh]

79. You didn't ask me, but this is what I would have wanted us to do:

An honest investigation into what really happened.

We went to war and created a security state on the basis of a bunch of dubious assertions about what happened and what caused it.

The first step in dealing with just about any difficult situation is to understand it. That's why we have brains, so that we can do that. Unfortunately in this case as a nation we didn't use our brains.

So let's get the story straight. Who really hijacked those planes and for whom were they working? What brought the towers down and who made that happen? What was it that hit the Pentagon and who was it that made that happen?

[MrMickeysMom]

83. This is true....

It should have been treated as a real murder investigation, because almost 3 thousand were... I've asked why materials were removed and why first responders who suffered post exposure lung disease were not acknowledged, and no answers, ten years after.

I've gotten nothing but pseudo-patriotic rhetoric as an answer... that, plus actual harassment thrown back at me for having asked these questions.

[chervilant]

125. AND,

I bet that harassment often includes calling you a deluded conspiracy theorist, just for asking pertinent questions. I get that all the time, particularly when I ask why WTC 7 collapsed hours after the towers went down.

Interesting, isn't it, how vociferous are the attacks on those of us who seek the truth?

[disndat]

143. God bless DUers!

All anybody needs to know what happened on 9/11 is to listen to the tape recording of the alarm from Logan airport to US Air Defense that the airlines planes had just been hi-jacked, and of course, the message was totally ignored.

[fascisthunter]

204. the Attack was Allowed to happen

[fascisthunter]

203. yee-up! It is VERRRY telling

[cyberpj]

112. + A Brazillion! nt

[tomp]

92. how about actually thoroughly investigate the event first? nt

[spooked911]

100. we should have gone after the real perps

not the fake ones. The real ones being the assholes in the govt who did 9/11.

[Enthusiast]

152. No one suggested anything of the like. nt

[liberation]

168. "What exactly would you have wanted us to do?"

The fact that you have to ask that question, I just quoted, pretty much illustrates why we're well past redemption as a nation.


We were supposed to be a nation of laws, there is just no questioning on what exactly should have done. It is monumentally easy actually: if we had carried ourselves like a nation of laws, instead of going into full reactionary mode bombing nilly willy two countries that had ZERO to do with this tragedy, we should have a) conducted an open and intellectually honest investigation to find out what exactly happened, and b) once we understand and have all the facts, then prosecute of those who were responsible for this tragedy in terms of the actual perpetrators and those in our government who failed us miserably.


If we don't tackle the actual reasons why this tragedy happened, no amount of molestation before taking a plane is going to make us either "safe" or "secure."

[defendandprotect]

192. After 9/11, Bush and Cheney should have been in prison for TREASON ...

Four commercial jetliners hijacked simultaneously --

NORAD AWOL --

An impotent and unprotected Pentagon attacked with no visible signs of a plane --

from the most protected airspace in the world --

Of course that's believable --

Had they told you the Russians or the Chinese had done 9/11, you'd still be ROFL --

[fascisthunter]

202. Maybe They'd Leave us Alone if We Didn't Mess with Foreign Governments

by destroying what chance the people have of true representation. How do you think most of the Middle East's country's became the way they did. That's right... America's government has been complicit in stealing resources from countries around the globe, and the shit finally came back to bite us. The target was no coincidence.

Talking to you reminds me of talking to right wingers I know personally.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoCubsGo]

18. Watching the Cubs-Mets game.

Getting really tired of hearing every detail of what the broadcasters at ESPN were doing that day. Why they think anyone really cares is beyond me. And, their attempts at tying every damn irrelevant thing to 9-11 is getting nauseating.

[bigwillq]

20. Is your mute button broke?

:shrug:

[GoCubsGo]

21. I'm trying to listen to the game more than watch it.

You have a problem with that? :shrug:

It's a fucking baseball game. Why can't they leave it at that?

[bigwillq]

23. You're the one that's complaining, not me.

Don't like it, don't watch. Or hit mute. You have options. Unlike the 3,000 that died on 9/11/2001.

[GoCubsGo]

31. This whole thread is about complaing about the overkill.

I'm not sure why you are feeling the need to keep commenting here given that. And, don't be throwing your "Unlike the 3000 that died" bullshit on me. That makes you no different than these jingoists in my book.

[bigwillq]

38. You have options.

Your move.

But I bet you like complaining better.

Too bad that those 3,000 will never get the chance to complain again.


edited


And what does the point of this thread have to do with my comment? :shrug: I offered suggestions and, because you didn't like my suggestions, you basically called me a terrorist. Nice. Have a good one. :hi: :hug:

[GoCubsGo]

40. My option is to hit the ignore button.

It's bad enough I can't enjoy a damn baseball game for the first time in ages, but now I'm being condemned for complaining about not being allowed to do so without all the damn jingoism and hyperbole.

[bigwillq]

41. See. Isn't it nice to have options?

:hi: :hug:

[TeamsterDem]

57. I literally put it on mute. Couldn't take it anymore. My favorite

was when John Franco said (before I muted) "this guy is someone you want to be in a foxhole with." What the fucking fuck? Speaking of the first game after 9/11, one of you played a game you were paid millions to play, the other managed it for an equally outrageous sum. What foxhole precisely? The dugout? Unlike military service there's like millions of people willing to go into that "foxhole" you piece of shit.

Sickening.

[GoCubsGo]

88. I was watching online as I don't have cable.

I would have muted it, had I not been doing other things on and off on my computer. My favorite was when they were chatting about batting averages or something like that, and one of them says, "...and so-and-so of the Pirates--that's X miles from Shanksville, where the fourth plane went down blah, blah, blah..." They were trying to tie EVERYTHING, no matter how unrelated, to 9/11. As H20Man put it upthred, it crossed into the obscene. But, what pissed me off most was the attitude that the Mets were entitled to win this game, because, well, it was in NYC, and you know what happened there 10 years ago. Never mind that few, if any of the current players were on the team at that time.

And, the bizarre thing was, the game went into extra innings and lasted beyond midnight. Once it became Monday, they pretty much shut up about 9/11. (The other bizarre thing was that the Flubs actually pulled it out after blowing a 3 run lead. They usually lose when they are televised on ESPN on Sunday nights. :-))

[TeamsterDem]

183. That really is disgusting

I was talking to a buddy on the phone and, upon hearing that I also had the game on at my house, he blurted out "hey, enough with that stupid baseball game! I'm trying to watch these four idiots discuss 9/11!!!!" LOL

The one who really bothers me is Valentine. He's got no business in a broadcast booth with that annoying Kermit voice, and despite having managed the game he offers nothing whatsoever to the broadcast. Plus he manages to discuss George W. Bush at every turn, praising him and "his beautiful wife Laura" (he describes her that way EVERY TIME). I tune in to watch baseball, not a shill for Dubya telling me how great he was.

That and listening to Valentine describe himself and the Mets players from 2001 as "heroes" for having gone out and play a game they're vastly overpaid to play. That made me just sick to my stomach.

But at least the Cubs won. It was the most painful victory I've ever had to watch given the announcing, but a win's a win. Maybe now that they dropped Hendry they'll sign some contracts benefiting someone other than just the player himself.

[ixion]

19. right there with ya! k/r

:woohoo:

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

24. I'll bet it wasn't like this on

Dec 7, 1951..................

[polmaven]

84. Yeah!

I'll bet none of all those 24/7 cable news networks nor any of the hundreds of internets places had wall to wall coverage of that 10th anniversary, huh?

:eyes:

[joshcryer]

25. Only 9/11 stuff I saw was on ABC nightly news...

...I didn't hear or see 99% of the coverage.

[gblady]

29. totally agree with your sentiment......

today, my heart goes out to the families of the almost 112,000 Iraqi civilians who have lost their lives violently
since our war against their nation. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

[Arkansas Granny]

32. I haven't watched any of the "special coverage" of this anniversary.

It hasn't been easy to avoid. It's been everywhere.

[chervilant]

128. Hey!!

I am returning to Arkansas in January, deep in the Ozarks! I can't wait!

And, yesterday, I DVR'd Secretariat, and that was the only thing on my TV last night. The rest of the evening, I chatted with friends from Australia and New Zealand.

I am right glad that more and more of us--the great and colorful Hoi Polloi--refuse to be deluded by the corporatists' false patriotism.

[Gregorian]

34. DU feels like home. Too bad it wasn't there in 1980.

Your post could have been written by me in 1980. That's how long I've been harboring resentment for the bullshit. And then it got worse with the repealing of the Fairness Doctrine. And then there was Baywatch and COPS. Man, it hssn't been easy.

Better late than never. And some people will never wake up and mature in their thinking and realization processes. It's like anything- one must put some effort into it. It's easy being a Republican. It takes effort to be a Democrat. Lighting houses on fire only takes a match. Building one takes a lot of work.

[MADem]

35. I watched vintage tv on DVD all day instead, deliberately avoiding the hyperbole.

No live TV, no radio.

This is the first mention I've seen of Nine One One all day.

I deliberately avoided the news.

[Frank Cannon]

75. I had my own personal Farscape marathon all day yesterday.

I remember 9/11 and feel bad for the families that lost loved ones and the rescuers who are still suffering from it. But I'm no masochist. There was no way I was going to watch the "news" yesterday.

I did catch Paul Simon's song, though (here on DU). Perfect choice, and very movingly performed.

[NYC_SKP]

36. I just have to rec any thread that begins with, "Fuck all the shitheads..."

:kick:

[whatchamacallit]

37. Don't let deluded closet conservatives

make your thread disappear.

[rl6214]

39. Whatever skippy

[AndyTiedye]

46. My Tee Vee is Off, I Have Been Building Stuff in Second Life Instead

[astral]

51. +1 ! nt

[rocktivity]

52. You mean it was TEN years ago this week that I screamed at my TV

"STOP TELLING ME HOW I SHOULD FEEL?" And then the strangest thing happened -- I started to feel better because I was in control again.

About two and half weeks later, I joined DU.

:headbang:
rocktivity

[donheld]

54. [phone]

[mirrera]

55. Word! n/t

[WiffenPoof]

59. Maybe No One Noticed But...

...the terrorists won.

-P

[flamingdem]

61. I love New York and New Yorkers so it's a good thing to see them being honored

I think there have been some good documentaries, the one about firemen and the Rachel and Richard MSNBC doc that really questioned the loss of our freedoms.

It really is a time to reflect.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

70. NYers aren't being honored,

they're being exploited......

[Javaman]

124. +1 nt

[disndat]

145. succinct and on point. nt.

[flpab]

81. I loved the show on cbs last night with live footage inside the towers

It was the best and showed how everyone lied to NYC and the first responders about the air quality, what a travesty that was. I work with a retired FDNY and those men have so many breathing problems plus the residents of Battery Park that were allowed to go home and the financial district that went back to work in the area. All for $$$. Seeing the faces of the firemen and the wtf look on their faces when they were inside the building. Very graphic but having lost a friend that day made me want to know more about their last hours. I don't agree with Bush and how he dealt with 9-11 but know the pain the deaths brought.

[flamingdem]

126. That was amazing footage

I hope that the documentary leads to outcry about not covering the firemen and others for cancer related to working on the pile. It's unreal that they can't make the obvious connection that cancers would occur from all those toxins.

[TBF]

87. It certainly is a time to reflect.

I mourn the loss of innocent life that occurred as the Bush administration planned this ops and took this country from bad to worse (full out fascism). I might have had some hope left if Obama had actually prosecuted the war criminals, brought home our soldiers, and exposed this event for what it was. Instead he joins in and decides to trump Bush by "killing Obama" and dumping the body at sea. Really? That's the story?

At some point in history it will all come out.

[GoCubsGo]

90. "killing Obama"?

Did you really mean to type that?

[TBF]

157. sorry -

no, typo of course. Killing Osama. I should definitely not post before my first cup of coffee.

I don't buy the official story. I really don't think it's President Obama's fault - just wish he could've prosecuted the criminals when he took office. I've seen an explanation for that - that some of his inner circle (transition team) were afraid of a military coup. I don't think I buy that, but he could've been afraid for his own safety (and that of his family).

I think Cheney was behind it all in some way, even if it was LIHOP rather than MIHOP.

[defendandprotect]

62. Thank you -- !! 9/11 was a "false flag" operation for business reasons ...

WTC towers were going to have to come down due to ASBESTOS -- and demolition was NOT

going to be permitted --

Note the odd circumstances of the sale and the reinsurance -- "terorist attack" included!

COUPLED with MIC interests in attacking in the ME --

Our sanctions on Iraq and the 20 years of bombing and brutality and death for Iraqis was

being seriously threated by efforts to remove the sanctions by US government with full

cooperation of Sadaam/Iraq government -- everything we wanted --


Full cooperation on inspections -- business opportunities which would have boosted our

economy -- MIC was the only loser -- !!



Sanctions were also being threatened by other nations for HUMANITARIAN REASONS --

violating "No fly" zone which we set up in order to fly in food/aid to Iraqis!


CIA was "furious" and wanted to regain control!


See Whistle blower Susan Lindauer on this -- she is related to Andy Card -- and was a

CIA asset --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x321024#321175

[A Physicist]

89. AFDB

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

[SnakeEyes]

138. Truthers are a "false flag" operation

Designed to destroy the left by making us look completely stupid by association.

[defendandprotect]

198. Those who believe the official conspiracy myth don't need any help ...

in looking stupid -- !!

[Zax2me]

63. Sounds like you have a problem

That won't go away no matter what other people do.
Or don't do.
how awful.
To be....trapped like that.

[Safetykitten]

67. Ok. but that's not what we care about. Does Obama have your vote?

[sce56]

69. Only one thing I do not like in the OP. This is not an official holiday I hope it never does!

But I still give it a rec

[Enthusiast]

71. I must K&R...........nt

[butterfly77]

78. Kick,kick,kick &recommended!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[PatrynXX]

80. glad we can vent. does help doesn't it?

although when I really need to vent. take some cheap broken table out and record myself being an ass and smashing it with a good sledge hammer :) or I could do that with Postal 2.... Postal 3 looks controversial enough...

[PatrynXX]

82. Fuck vs Jesus Christ

always find it strange. have Christians have mouths open if I said fuck but it's just fine for jesus , jeez , jesus h christ , god danmn damn god damn it. yada yada yada.

(guess I can add sons of bitches to that too right? to the list of things that have mouths open. ) oh well. if you have Newts mother says hillary's a bitch.. why not.. course part of that was connie chung's fault. had a great thing going till she turned into her husband...

[spirit of wine]

85. For Some it is a matter of pride

it is difficult to admit on any level that we got outsmarted by Bin laden, whether or not he is now dead or alive, because of the continued wrong reaction this country gave to 9/11. I do not even know if in fact he is responsible because there was no trial, his body was quickly dumped at sea, end of story, so we think.

[TBF]

86. Bravo - great rant and I agree 100%. nt

[SlimJimmy]

91. Try a little decaf. It'll help. (nt)

[mwb970]

93. I tried to avoid 9/11 all week, but it was difficult.

The level of obsession, wallowing, and overreaction on display this week was reminiscent of the obsession, wallowing, and overreaction that occurred following the actual event. I feel like all of my news sources (radio, TV, newspapers, online sites) were hijacked by the 9/11 terrorists, whose dirty deed was pushed into my face continually for a week. In the old days, we would have said that this proves that "the terrorists have won". I don't know about that, but they sure won the week ratings-wise.

As I picked my newspaper up off the front porch this morning, I thought how nice it would be to finally be free of 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11. No such luck. The entire front page was 9/11 stories! Maybe tomorrow.

:(

[Honeycombe8]

94. Isn't it past your bedtime? Read some books to improve your vocabulary, then get to bed! nt

[Chorophyll]

95. Eloquently put.

Applause from New York, Captain Keyboard.

:eyes:

[OneGrassRoot]

97. LOL!

I assume the "eloquently put" was sarcasm.

I'm far from a prude and love me some gratuitous profanity, but some DUers totally diminish their message in a sea of unnecessary profanity -- especially when it's in the subject line.

:thumbsdown:

[Chorophyll]

102. Sacrastic? Nooooo!

He's truly eloquent and also very brave out there, nowhere near where 9/11 happened. I hope he figured out how turn off his teevee though. ;)

[nadine_mn]

96. what sent me and husband over the edge was T-shirts being sold at Michaels

The fucking craft store! that said 9/11/01 Never Forget - these tshirts were for sale and the staff were wearing them.

I just wanted to buy some stickers and some glitter - not be reminded of how a tragic event has been turned into a fucking sale extravaganza


20 yrs from now there will be 9/11 day sales just like for Memorial Day - because that's what we do to respect the dead - we shop and look for 20% off.

[catbyte]

99. WOO HOO!! You're my hero, backscatter712

[valerief]

101. I totally agree, but is 9-11 a holiday now? nt

[raccoon]

103. Why don't you say what you really think? Seriously, I agree. nt

[KansDem]

104. 180th rec...

...and of course, kick.

[RoccoR5955]

108. K & R....

And don't forget, they let 9/11 happen, so that they could, in effect, repeal the parts of the Bill of Rights that were not suitable for them.
Take for instance, our 4th Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure. Gone. People feel that their safety is more important than their freedom.
There are many others, I just don't have time to elaborate at the moment.

[Scottybeamer70]

109. Thank you, backscatter............

rec.

[Supersedeas]

113. I would appreciate it more if we rememeber August 6, 2011 every time 9/11/01 is called to our

attention.

[OwnedByFerrets]

114. A M E N

[Javaman]

115. I wrote this a few years ago and I still feel the same...

Javaman (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-11-08 03:55 PM
Original message

My 9/11 fucking rant!
This day has been so completely bastardized by the fucking rightwing media and by our fucking mentally deficient politicians, that what every real meaning behind it won't be found on over produced over saturated over eulogized tv movies of the week or as the rest of the nation calls it "the news".

I will reflect upon the friends I lost that day on my own, with my own thoughts and prayers.

I don't need the full spangled banner stupidity of the heartless rating grubbing morons and media sycophants or the bottom feeding politicians to tell me how I should fucking feel or how I should fucking think or how I should fucking pay tribute to those that lost their lives 7 years ago today.

We live in a corrupt and crooked nation, period. The last piece of myself that I hold near and dear is my integrity, I will not compromise it by giving into the produced for tv sappy ceremonies that make money off the dead.

my sorrow is my own.

[OxQQme]

117. And not a word about

honest societal introspective about why it came to our shores.

btw, downthread is a link posted by A Physicist that is an absolute roflmao crack up, especially following the links.

[gateley]

120. Some of us feel differently -- not jingoistic but want to remember

those people who were the victims.

I honestly don't think the "shitheads" care if they manipulate you or not.

[slackmaster]

123. Unrec for insensitivity to the victims of the 9/11 attacks, and poor grammar

I give this rant 3 points out of a possible 10.

[deacon]

127. The rantings of an 8 year old. n/t

[emald]

129. 9/11 has become an obsessive religion to many in this country

and it sucks. I mean, what, thirty five thousand people a year die in auto accidents, no war on cars yet. I read this am that we have spent over seven million dollars to each dollar spent on the actual act of flying the airplanes into the buildings.

[L0oniX]

130. Pride is for fools. Mean while 45,000 people die every year in traffic and no one cares.

Who cares about all the innocent people who have died in Iraq because of us? Patriotism is foolish.

Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool. – John Dryden

A patriot is a fool in ev’ry age. – Alexander Pope.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. – Samuel Johnson

In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first. – Ambrose Bierce

Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen. – Ambrose Bierce

That pernicious sentiment, “Our country, right or wrong.” – James Russell Lowell

“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.” – G. K. Chesterton

Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and “My country never wrong” is an even more dangerous maxim than “My country, right or wrong.” – Bertrand Russell

Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious. – George Bernard Shaw

You’ll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. – George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it. – Denis Diderot

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. – George Santayana

The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations. – H.G. Wells

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. – Erich Fromm

One of the great attractions of patriotism–it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous. – Aldous Huxley

Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and “patriotism” . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots – Gordon Allport

It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag. – Elbert Hubband

Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy. – William Inge

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions. – Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism corrupts history. – Goethe

Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind. – Thorstein Veblen

The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty. – J.A. Hobson

2. Patriotism and War:

At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot. – Jules Renard

No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism. – Preserved Smith

Naturally the common people don’t want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism. – Hermann Goering.


3. Patriotism and Religion:

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched. – Guy de Maupassant

God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed. – Luis Buñuel

To be patriotic, hate all nations but your own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own. – Lionel Strachey

When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism! – David Starr Jordan

4. The American Syndrome:

If you have a weak candidate and a weak platform, wrap yourself up in the American flag and talk about the Constitution. – Matt Quay

How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be “American” before (or in contradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism. – Edith Wharton

The 100 percent American is 99 percent an idiot. – George Bernard Shaw

Treason is in the air around us everywhere. It goes by the name of patriotism. – Thomas Corwin

[PavePusher]

137. One can be quite patriotic without being a blind fool.

-me, 12 Sept, 2011

[L0oniX]

142. So you had a choise as to what country you were born in?

What makes your patriotism any better than that of those in other countries?

Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. – George Bernard Shaw

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship. – Erich Fromm

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority. – Arthur Schopenhauer

[PavePusher]

172. I don't think you actually addressed anything I said.

Perhaps I should add that Patriotism is a function of choice, not merely of location of birth. Many people transfer their patriotism to an adopted nation, over their birth nation. Remember that the U.S. is a land primarily of immigrants, few families having been here more than a dozen generations.

edit: missed some content, mangled some grammar.

[Beer Snob-50]

131. +1

i also feel that by having these events, we are telling the terrorists who did and planned this they did a good job. maybe more low key rememberances would have been more appropriate.

[harun]

132. Rec

[saras]

134. Wll, it was the tenth anniversary. Hopefully it'll go away until the twentieth

By which time the war criminal trials will be celebrated as much as the original attack. There's something downright creepy about celebrating the attack itself, and since our response was such a failure, there's little to celebrate there.

Yeah, I know it's wildly, unrealistically optimistic, but hey, I'm a progressive.

[slackmaster]

135. The Germans keep saying that about November 9

But people keep remembering anyway.

[PatSeg]

136. My feelings as well

I did everything to avoid the 9/11 tasteless extravaganza yesterday, as ten years of this excessive, self-absorbed commemoration is more than enough.

Tragedy occurs all over the world, accompanied by great loss of life and property. Though the loss is never forgotten, people grieve their dead and rebuild their lives. This reconstituting 9/11 at every opportunity and often for political reasons, does nothing for the families of those who died except reopen their wounds, as they have to relive that day over and over again.

I'll never forgot 9/11, as if the media would let me, not so much for the losses on that day, but more because of our reaction to a terrible event, a reaction that I consider worse than the action that caused it. So many more lives were lost because of 9/11 than on 9/11, and many others altered forever. We really, really will never be the same again and it didn't have to be this way.

[brewens]

139. I actually had a business operating at a 9/11 event. Not exactly

my idea but I'm not ashamed to take their money. My girlfriend runs it. It's a mobile apparel booth. Custom t-shirts, caps and stuff like that. She's something of a libertarian type.

It was mostly motorcycle rallies and street fairs she planned on. I'm actually the one that masterminded taking it more right-wing. After the summer of 2010 I started jokingly calling it T-Shirts For Teabaggers. Now we do gun shows. People at small town street fairs in our region love us!

So far it's gotten to be about a low income for my girlfriend. I think it will turn the corner and start paying me as well. I already contribute to as many worthwhile causes as I can. I swear I will ramp that up if we get online sales and stuff going.

I actually had a couple TSA guys give me crap about our belt buckles. Kind of fakey looking gun and grenade buckles. I had to laugh at them! If anyone is a big enough tool to try and go through security with one of those on, I hope they get the full backroom treatment! No chance of the TSA guys seeing those and just laughing it off as a gag buckle.

[PavePusher]

217. I was with you right up to the point where you advocated....

that people's First and Fourth Amendment rights be trampled by government agents.

Are you sure you're at the right website?

[brewens]

218. Well I would equate getting on a plane with a grenade on your belt

to screaming fire in a movie theater. Even if it doesn't really look real, that is a little too much.

[PavePusher]

220. "Kind of fakey looking gun and grenade buckles."

So it should be easy to check them out without shredding one of our founding documents and its principals in the process, right?

"I hope they get the full backroom treatment!" Any other things that should merit this, in your authoritarian opinion?

[chrisa]

141. Imo, What 9/11 should be: (vs. What it shouldn't be)

- A day just to remember what happened.

What it shouldn't be:

- An excuse for politicians with 2012 in mind to run out, give overly dramatic speeches with the same cliche garbage (heroism, bravery, America - basically a speech a 5 year old could have written) just to prove that 'they care about 9/11 too.' This does not include those who are actually interested in helping grieving families cope by doing a great speech. This refers to the arrogant jackass who gets on the podium, stares directly at the camera, and spews a bunch of canned garbage that is purely motivated by self-interest. Basically, acting like they're on the campaign trail. It's so disrespectful.

- A day of exploitative commercialization (Anything that tries to use 9/11 to boost sales or make money, including advertisers).

- Having a '9/11 special' on something that has nothing to do with 9/11. I was flipping through the channels, and (I think on ESPN), a commentator said in his commentator voice, "Welcome to the 9/11 (sports program) special!" Nice. Stay Classy.

- Networks competing for the best '9/11 ratings,' which is what we saw yesterday. It was embarrassing.

- Using 9/11 as an attempt to justify anything other than remembering those who were lost.

- Using 9/11 cliches for politics (In this post 9/11 world!), etc.

[Plucketeer]

144. I've had more than enough myself.

What's the fascination with this tragedy??? WHY do so many feel compelled to dredge it up again and again?? We don't spend NEAR as much time re-angsting over Pearl Harbor or the Civil War. Enough already!!! It happened, we mourned, move on.

If you had a loved one that was lost or crippled on 9/11/2001 - yes, you have a right to mourn. Of course, do you HAVE TO wait for this particular calendar date to express your grief? I think not.

You can snarl about those who perpetrated this act, you can slam the religion of the perpetrators, you can celebrate bin Laden's assination, but you can never "put it back". What we RARELY hear mentioned was bin Laden's motives for what he did. Basically, it was because he resented the USA manipulating the rulers and the resources of the arab nations. In a word: meddling.
And while I will NEVER say that he (and the 19 hijackers) were justified in doing what they did, bin Laden DID have a legitimate gripe about this country's meddling in the middle east. A meddling that never would've happend had those countries not been setting over the majority of the worlds oil reserves. Bin Laden "hated our freedom"? Yeah - he hated that we were free to leverage the one real resource that Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Libya and others happened to have - while the common arab citizen was left with nada.
When you think about it, it was oil (or lack of access to it) that provoked Japan's leaders to pull off Pearl Harbor. MAYBE there's a lesson there for us.

On a positive note..... facial tissue makers, and Chinese handkerchief producers probably consider 9/11 in the same light that toy makers see Xmas.

[patrice]

146. One can be and SHOW respect for traits other than jingoism. It's called being pro-active. It depends

upon one's ability to rule one's self and define one's own behaviors so clearly that there is obviously no over-lap between whatever potentially positive sharing is possible and jingoistic BS.

[patrice]

147. This ALSO makes it possible to share y/our SHAME, i.e. the profoundly negative is validated by

the honesty that YOU bring to relationships which are built on whatever you can authentically share.

[davidwparker]

148. I'm with you. I saw about 3 minutes the entire day on

TV as I was passing by those channels.

I did listen to Thom Hartmann's 3 hour coverage and call-in show which Free Speech TV was streaming.

[patrice]

150. I listened to Krishna Das all day.

[Generic Other]

158. Some of us hate to have our emotions manipulated

It makes whatever feelings are evoked seem contrived and inauthentic. I understand your reaction.

[patrice]

159. It IS a kind of emotional-rape. Anger is understandable. nt

[Generic Other]

160. Yes. That is the perfect term to describe it

When I heard the first responders were not welcome to be part of the event and Bush was, I could see it for the propaganda show it was. We had 8 years of that sort of state controlled message. No different than watching Cold War era parades of missiles and goosestepping soldiers marching in Red Square.

[bettyellen]

206. inviting 20,000 first responders was NEVER going to happen in that space w. security needed .

It was a memorial not a reunion for survivors. You got it all wrong, it was a very sad beautiful rememberence. The only people who injected any politics at all was some crazy old uncle of one of the dead. That;s it.

[Taverner]

161. Although I don't believe in MIHOP or LIHOP, I roll my eyes at the 9/11 Celebrations

And yes, they are just that, celebrations.

Celebrations of American Narcissism, celebrations of jingoistic hoo-rahs, celebrations of our very dangerous faiths, celebrations of death and that sick fantasy often called "glory."

Don't buy the bullshit. Something akin to 9/11 goes on all the time in countries other than the USA.

[Miss_Underestimated]

163. Why wasn't Dubya holding a copy of "My Pet Goat" to truly commemorate the day's events?

:crazy:

[katty]

164. we have enough evidence that indicates 9/11, was, in no small

part a tragic event that had the participation (perhaps direct/indirect)of some working inside the U.S. government-and THAT is a MAJOR tragedy along with the horrific results of this event. 9/11 will never, ever be viewed as a holiday. I support your need to rant about the incredible ignorance and agression that preceded and followed September 11, 2001.

[SoulSearcher]

174. Who heavily shorted airlines/insurance co's on Sep 10?

All I know is that they were heavily shorted, and on Sep12 they made millions.
Somebody in US knows, they can certainly follow the money.
I thought beginning 2009, we would finally know.....but No - not a word.

[katty]

199. yes that was one of the first big clues-among so many others

[Vincardog]

176. a tragic event that had the participation (perhaps direct/indirect)of some working inside the U.S.

[texshelters]

165. Ever since the event

shitheads have used it to make money and start wars and be bigots.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/09/the-misuses-of-911/

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[colsohlibgal]

167. Will It Work Twice?

It sure worked once but like that old saying that our verbally challenged ex prez totally mangled, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

The bad news is that there are millions in this country who remain gullible with a capital G and as easy to manipulate as silly putty.

[Safetykitten]

170. Hi, what a great thread! Love it!

[harun]

186. Me too. A separate the wheat from the chaff thread is needed at moments like this

to open up a few eyes around here.

[Chimichurri]

171. Went to the Cowboys/Jets game and Dubya did the coin toss - how disgusting!

Also, the stadium kept asking for donations to the 9/11 memorial and I kept thinking - who gets all that money?

It was all cheers and honors for first responders yet here they are being denied cancer coverage when they start getting sick. How come our citizenry isn't furious about that? We sure jump to our feet cheering these heroes on but where are we when they need us when it really counts? All I hear is Jon Stewart making the case next to a loud cacophony of crickets.

When they trotted out a soldier who's done several tours and lost several limbs as a result - I couldn't help but feel a deep sadness for him. Connecting Iraq with 9/11 is still going on despite that rationale being debunked over and over again. I find it reprehensible that our troops and our minds are being used for the benefit of war profiteers and here it continues - in full force, 10 years later.

I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly and asking for money in the name of 9/11 is shameful.

[girl_interrupted]

178. So glad the Jets sent the Cowboys & Bush home with their tails between their legs

Happiest moment for me in otherwise sad day. I can't stand Bush or the Cowboys. As for the 9/11 responders if not for the help of Jon Stewart, the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010 would not have passed, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand really fought for it, but no one listened till Stewart made a big deal of it, and embarrassed a lot of people. So thanks Jon.

Depending on whose asking for the money, it usually goes to an organization helping wounded soldiers. Or it could be for the upkeep of memorials in NY, Pa and DC. Too bad you didn't ask. I don't have a problem with any of that.

[Chimichurri]

181. You must buy tickets to attend the 9/11 memorial. Everything is profit, including

the death and horror of that terrible day. The reality that 9/11 has become a money maker leads me to question that charity. I'm glad you're okay with it despite knowing almost nothing about it, but I remain skeptical.

[girl_interrupted]

189. And you must buy tickets to attend NFL games

You don't mind doing that, obviously. Memorials, just like Football teams, don't exist on their own, they have to be paid for. But here is the thing, what was left to us on 9/11 was a mass of twisted steel, glass and human remains. Sad and depressing, a constant reminder of horror and death. Ghoulish. And for years, it remained that way. It's no longer that, and I'm glad.

You might be lucky enough to go to a cemetery to visit a loved one. Many families of 9/11 victims don't have that luxury. This is their loved ones final resting place. They had no body to claim. This is it. Same can be said of the victims of 9/11 in Pa. So no, I don't have a problem respecting that and giving them a place to visit and honor their loved ones.

As for the charity you said was soliciting money, you never bothered to ask what it was for. My guess it was for Wounded soldiers, and that is a legitimate charity. If it was for upkeep of a memorial, and that offends you, no one is breaking your arm to give anything.

As for "profit" I assume you have a job and I'll bet the farm, you don't work for free either.

[femrap]

175. I found this video

about 9/11...

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1635249/pg1

I'll probably be deleted, but it is a good summation.

[cottonseed]

177. I've been off the internet. Just watched a little football.

Hardly noticed it. Seems the same as it ever was.

Did someone touch you inappropriately?

[lynne]

179. So, why are you so easily manipulated?

Don't have your own mind or what? You have free choice to participate - to listen - to observe - or NOT. Just put on your tin-foil hat for the day and it will be over before you know it.

I find it ironic that you were manipulated enough to come here and make this post. Guess their plan worked!

[Veracious]

180. FUCK 9/11

I'm sooooo sick of this bullshit. Dont forget, but enough all ready.

[liberal N proud]

184. There have been too many opportunistic endeavors around 9/11

Every media outlet and every organization had to have their "celebration/remembrance."

There should have only been private memorial events in New York, DC and Pennsylvania with no commentary from any of the media's talking heads.

They all just have to have their own little piece of it, damned egomaniacs.

[MarinCoUSA]

185. Fuck 'em, too. I'am in

N/t

[Rex]

187. You had me at 'Fuck all the shitheads...'

K&R

[booley]

188. Patriotism

Patriotism: the Art of convincing young men they should die so old men can make money.

Recc'ed because yeah, I'm sick of it too.

[WillyT]

190. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

:yourock:

:kick:

:hi:

[Deep13]

194. Perhaps that's how I should have phrased it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1919947

[mother earth]

200. With all due respect to those who lost loved ones, regrettably

it truly has become a day meant to use fear and remembrance to excuse and extend the never ending wars and ridiculous spending on "homeland" security/terrorism. Its a win-win for the war machine. We are being manipulated completely. Isn't this what bin Laden wanted, to bankrupt us through fear?

[fascisthunter]

201. DANKE! (nt)

[Smarmie Doofus]

205. I dont watch any of it. I can't STAND it.

But I'm glad some sane people do.

So I can know what's going on.


K and R.

[bertman]

208. Next time, try not to hold back. Just let it all out. You'll feel better, backscatter. REC.

[tavalon]

209. This is why I slept through 9/11/11

That and strep throat.

I was one of those awful people who asked, in 2001, what we did to the brown people to make them retaliate in such an awful way? And then I researched and Iraq and Afghanistan are just new versions of the same old thing. We are not a good country nor a good empire.

The people in the towers did not deserve to die but neither did the millions of brown people we've murdered before and after 2001. I offer no disrespect to those who lost loved ones in the towers nor to NYC, but I'll not "celebrate" that which allowed the fascists in our government to use terror to start wars over oil. Those wars were never about the twin towers and that alone is shameful enough that I'll not take part. That, and I believe that any human has equal value and Americans are no more valuable than any other human that inhabits this planet. I believed that in 2001 and I still do.

[m1049]

210. flag-waving

I'm not usually a fan of flag-waving, especially since it's usually a show of fakery for people who don't actually give a damn about other Americans.

In the case of 9/11, I was OK with displays of patriotism, since it showed solidarity with our fellow compatriots who suffered on 9/11. And it was America, the nation, that was attacked.

I do wish that people would remember, though, that it was the *World* Trade Center that was attacked. People of 58 nationalities died that day, so we ought to spread the symbolism beyond just America somehow.