KS teacher steps on flag while discussing free speech rights

[proud2BlibKansan]

Free speech lesson in Towanda

A Kansas high school teacher has apologized and will change her lessons after parents objected when she stepped on a U.S. flag while discussing free speech rights in her history class.

Officials at Circle High School in Towanda said Jennifer McKinsey, a U.S. government and history teacher, stepped on a flag last week while discussing controversial behaviors that are protected by the First Amendment, The Wichita Eagle reported.

To illustrate the point and prompt class discussion, McKinsey took her personal American flag from the classroom wall, put it on the ground and stepped on it several times.

Cherie Davis, a parent of a Circle High student, complained in emails to the teacher and principal this week after a posting on her Facebook page prompted dozens of comments, including some that said McKinsey should be fired.



Read more: http://midwestdemocracyproject.org/blogs/entries/free-speech-lesson-towanda/#ixzz1XeheVfsI

[MadHound]

1. I see, a lesson that didn't take, a lesson that wasn't learned.

A real shame.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Sounds like a great teacher to me

But it's Kansas. Need I say more? LOL

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. To the contrary, a teacher with very poor professional judgment

Lots of ways to convey those ideas and concepts without offending people. However to choose one guaranteed to offend both students and parents and create needless controversy is dumb.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Free speech rights have been controversial since they were added to the constitution

Why should teachers avoid controversy?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

26. Its not the topic it is the method used that was unprofessional

Hopefully she does not demonstrate the effect of hemlock the same way.

[MedicalAdmin]

30. To clarify, do you think she should be fired? n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

32. Of course not.

Hopefully this is a learning experience for her.

The lesson was more than valid, it was important. The way she went about it interfered with the lesson itself. That is not good technique. Its a rookie mistake, regardless of the experience level.

[customerserviceguy]

28. I'd strongly suggest

that art teachers in public schools not teach their students how to make "Piss Christ". Yes, they'd be utilizing their free speech rights, and teaching students to do the same, but it's not going to go well with the school board.

This teacher could have very easily found a photograph of someone burning a flag in a demonstration, then launched into a discussion of the flag-burning case before the Supreme Court. She could have even quoted from Scalia, and the rest of the community really wouldn't have had too much to say about it.

[leftyohiolib]

33. nothing in the constitution about the right to be not-offended by others

the teacher should sue the school district for free speech violations. tell the precious "offended" to suck it

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. Yet another person who does not understand that there are no free speech protections at work

The lesson was important, but her "technique" actually got in the way. Rookie mistake hopefully she will not repeat again.

[coalition_unwilling]

48. Um, you're msitaking 'free speech protections' with 'academic

freedom,' I think. But this is, after all, Kansas where academic freedom is now seemingly 'quaint and obsolete.'

[coalition_unwilling]

45. Isn't that the point of free speech, though? Even if some find speech

offensive, it is still protected by the First Amendment.

I actually don't think the teacher's tactic in stepping on the flag was dumb at all.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

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[RetroLounge]

63. Did you miss this part?

"her personal American flag"

Geez, I swear this is Republican Underground sometimes.

RL

[ProgressiveProfessor]

66. Did you miss the part about it being an ineffective approach

since the fracas over the approach as completely overshadowed the material?

[mopinko]

69. no, the fracas is the lesson. a great one.

hope you don't think lessons and learning end at the door. free speech may be constitutionally protected, but it is rarely popular. this is a great way to teach that part of the lesson.

perhaps it will inspire some of her kansas kids to reach out to a wider world and read about what happened when a student did the same thing- dread scott .

[tblue37]

68. I don't think we necessarily have a right to not be offended, especially since

so many people get offended so easily.

Sometimes people need to be startled out of their thoughtlessness and complacency--and students especially need to have their assumptions and prejudices challenged, since they usually hold their beliefs not because they have thought seriously about them, but because they have never thought seriously about them at all. They have been spoon fed and force fed certain notions all their lives, and having those notions challenged by direct demonstrations of truth can be good for them.

[aikoaiko]

4. Or maybe it did.

The teacher expressed herself.

The parents expressed themselves.

Someone's behavior changed.

[wtmusic]

7. A very important lesson was learned:

don't expect everyone to cheer just because you exercise a right that is yours to make a point - all the while knowing others may find it offensive. Some people might be very offended, and be all too happy to let you know about it.

That is, of course, their right too.

[Solly Mack]

3. I keep typing different things and I keep coming back to Fuck Cherie Davis.

I'll stay with that.

[tridim]

5. There's just a touch of hypocrisy in calling for firing someone for expressing their rights.

I'll just leave it at that.

[BiggJawn]

6. Sort of like "People DIED for your Right of Free Speech, so STFU!"

Yeah, that one always made me go "WTF?"

[wtmusic]

8. The parents don't have the right to tell her to STFU?

I thought that was their right too.

[BiggJawn]

12. Sure they do.

But they're not the ones in peril for their job for exercising their 1st amendment rights, now, are they?

[Lucian]

16. Oh snap.

[jberryhill]

18. Do you also beleive that the teacher has a first amendment right...

..to include her students in a demonstration of her right of free exercise of religion while she is on the clock?

I, for one, do not, but I'd like to see how far you go with this.

In answer to your point here... The parents are not the ones expecting to get paid by others during the incident in question.

[MedicalAdmin]

31. This is a first. I agree with you.

My clock must have stopped 12 hours ago.

:P

[jberryhill]

37. Lol

As someone points out below, in the contex of prayer there is another factor in play - ie separation of church and state. But IMHO the rationale that makes the teacher a government actor in that context also renders her to be a government actor in the context of political expression.

Now of course teachers of civics need to give the kids a taste of a range of ideas to challenge their minds, but the picture of a government employee going this far to make a point just strikes me as odd. Your mileage may vary.

[wtmusic]

21. The teacher was never in "peril for her job"

but you'd have to read the story to know that. :eyes:

[BiggJawn]

13. dupe

Damn cheap Chinese computer...

[rustydog]

9. Teacher backed away from her free speech rights

The Flag is a symbol of this country, it's ID card to the rest of the world. It is a fucking SYMBOL, people.
And in the words of George Carlin: I'll leave symbols to the symbol-minded.

[MineralMan]

10. Others have also stepped on the flag:

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

11. I guess it's only OK if the pResident does it...

[RKP5637]

14. Many of our politicians step all over the flag everyday! n/t

[Lucian]

15. The parents objected to her free speech, I see.

Oh, irony.

:eyes:

[jberryhill]

17. I see the point, but not appropriate for a government employee

She's not allowed to lead them in prayer, either.

Public school teachers do have restrictions on what they can do when they are on the clock. There's nothing unusual about that.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

20. Wondered when some one was going to point that out...

There are restrictions on speech at any employer, including schools. There was no violation of her first amendment rights. More importantly, at a practical level, the lesson could have been taught without doing it. Poor judgment on the teacher's part.

[jberryhill]

39. The counterweight there is "academic freedom"

But which is generally not extended to undermining the institution itself.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Academic freedom does not apply in high school

There is not much of it left in universities these days for that matter.

This to me was a clear rookie mistake. She should not lose her job for it, but if she is the junior member of the dept and there are cutbacks...

[jberryhill]

41. Not generally, no

But in the course of classroom discussion, taking an apparent advocacy position of some concept in order to move along a dialogue is not unusual.

This could have been done in a more appropriate way, and we agree on that.

[coalition_unwilling]

50. Oy vey and you dare to call yourself 'Progressive'?? Whatever. -n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

54. It was clearly a rookie mistake by the teacher

There are clearly more effective ways of teaching the same lesson. As it is, the methods have now overwhelmed the content. Not good practice.

If you academic freedom exists today you are woefully out of touch..the campus is not hwat it used to be. No I do not consider that a good thing.

[coalition_unwilling]

57. Your post seemed to tacitly condone firing her if there arose a

need for cutbacks, presumably because of what you consider her erroneous pedagogy.

That is hardly a progressive position, not least because it endorses terminating someone for exercising academic freedom.

Whether academic freedom does or does not exist is open to debate. The AAUP (American Association of University Professors) would strongly disagree with you and their censure of various institutions (like Auburn AL for its denial of tenure to Charles Curran) carries a lot of weight.

I know that 'academic freedom' is a far more contested topic at the secondary level, but there is a strong argument to be made that academic freedom should and does indeed exist in the secondary as well as the post-secondary arenas.

Finally, I disagree with your assertion that "the methods have now overwhelmed the content." On the contrary, the methods used have served to illuminate the content in ways the teacher probably never dreamed of. She should never have apologized and she should be instead heroized by anyone on DU.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

60. Actually it was acknowledging what could happen

Seniority still drives retention in most districts. If she is junior, she could be pink slipped, having nothing to do with this event. However, if that happens, undoubtedly there will be those screaming it was over this issue, ignoring that union protections would apply. However, I can see that my comments were less than clear.

I have to disagree with you on the weight of AAUP. At a practical level, its noise and little more. If there was effective labor organization at the university level, that might be different. There is a glut of those who would teach and management clearly has the upper hand today when it comes to staffing. I am an AAUP member, but I am realistic about its impact.

Academic freedom really does not exist at the secondary level. You file lessons plans which in theory are reviewed and prep for the standardized tests. Where is the freedom? Helicopter parents and testing mania make it even worse. Makes me glad my daughters are past that and my late wife is no longer teaching. Even at the post secondary level, true academic freedom as I first saw and experienced it many years ago is ghost of its former self. Why is an interesting discussion, but watching those scrapping for tenure today it is the last thing on their minds. A serious loss to be sure.

As a teacher, if my methods overshadow my content, I am by definition being less effective than I could be. That was the rookie mistake this teacher made, regardless of her level of experience. I am not the only DU poster pointing that out. However, I too am a little troubled by the firestorm around this. It should have been a case of showing her why it was a dumb thing to do and then moving on. Instead it feeds the anti teacher feeding frenzy. Again, a bad thing.

[provis99]

65. he's never written anyting progressive. I think the title is meant in irony.

[coalition_unwilling]

49. Again you're substituting incorrectly 'freedom of speech' for

'academic freedom' (the rights of teachers to express themselves freely inside a classroom without fear of political retribution).

The only poor judgment the teacher displayed, imho, was in apologizing for a very effective lesson.

[jberryhill]

56. I suppose I frequently suffer from incorrect ideas

Probably because I am an evil person.

[Skip Intro]

25. +100

[Horse with no Name]

29. When did we have a separation of state and free speech? I've got my Constitution out and can't find

it. Help a sister out. Point me the way.

We have a definitive separation of church and state, and that was obviously honored by THIS teacher. However, I would probably be pretty correct if the same folks that objected to free speech would be okay with a violation of church and state.

[jberryhill]

36. That is true

I believe it is appropriate for a civics teacher to explain that freedom of speech is indeed meant to protect the expression of politically unpopular dissent.

However, the reason why we apply separation of church and state to public school teachers is, as you point out, because the teacher is an agent of the government. But then it strikes me that, as an agent of the government, it is one thing for the teacher to have his/her own political opinions, which is fine, but an agent of the government should not be herself expressing ideas, in her capacity as a government agent, which are essentially anti-government.

That sends something of a mixed message, and is, again just my opinion, inappropriate. Or, it is about as appropriate as a counter worker at the McDonalds telling customers that McDonalds sucks. I wouldn't expect that person to keep their job very long either.

[The Midway Rebel]

42. You assume the intent of the teacher was to send and anti-government message.

There is nothing in the article to suggest the teacher was expressing her negative opinions about the government. In fact, her intent is exactly the opposite as you have suggested. If you read the article you would see that she was championing free speech and trying to engage her students in the learning process. Your McDonald's employee analogy is therefore flawed.

This is not to mention that the flag was her personal private property.

edit speeling

[jberryhill]

43. Those are both good points

However, there are innumerable ways to make the point, such as by showing a photograph of someone doing such a thing, etc.

There are first amendment cases addressing, for example, nude dancing as protected speech. What sort of classroom demonstration might come to mind there?

Clearly, they need to re-assign her from civics to sex education.

Now, she COULD have unprotected sex with a stranger in front of the class in order to illustrate a point, but there are also other visual and/or instructional aids that she might consider to convey this point to an audience which is still developing its critical thinking faculties.

[The Midway Rebel]

44. Reductio ad absurdem

You have introduced a slippery slope arguemnt. Nude dancing in front of minors is illegal in Kansas, stepping of American flags, not so much.

[jberryhill]

62. True that..

...but nude dancing earns more tips, and these kids are gonna need jobs when they graduate.

Call it vocational training.

[provis99]

64. they don't have any free speech off the clock, either.

you can be fired for political advocacy, or what you post on your Facebook page, for example.

[subterranean]

19. She was just following the example of our previous president.

Of course, Bush was not trampling on the flag to express his contempt for the Republic for which it stands. (Or was he?)



Likewise, this teacher in Kansas was not trying to express her hatred for America or foment insurrection, but simply to illustrate the protections afforded by the First Amendment. I admire her for stepping out of the textbook and attempting to stimulate her students' interest in U.S. history, a subject that many find boring. Perhaps she exercised poor judgment in the way she chose to do that, but she certainly achieved her goal of prompting discussion.

[The Midway Rebel]

24. Hooray for the teacher.

Thank god somebody stood up to the blind patriotism, corporate funded nationalism and idiotic symbol worshiping that has helped fuck this country. I hope the teacher caused at least one of her students to think critically. I hope that at least ONE of those kids learned a valuable lesson. Perhaps at least one child will chose not to become cannon fodder in our next godamned war.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. My thoughts exactly

And it was a very brave act in Towanda, KS.

[WinkyDink]

35. Difference between "Constitutional rights" and "job smarts" was the lesson today, kids! If only she

had mentioned that the flag was manufactured in CHINA!

[dems_rightnow]

38. She also has the unabridged free speech right.......

..... to tell the Superintendent and the school board to kiss her ass. Those would be similarly bad ideas, professionally. But certainly protected.

[demtenjeep]

46. The Principal at my new school talked with us about this

and said as long as he knows before hand if we are going to do something controversial he was behind us all the way. Sometimes to generate "feeling" in these kids something shocking needs to be done. He just would like to be able to respond with knowledge. I am great with that

I am glad I have an awesome principal. My new school is such a refreshing change from the past.

[CRK7376]

70. I too let my

principal know if I was going to do something outside of the norm....Always helped. He did get a little miffed when I nailed Martin Luthers' 95 Thesis to my classroom door...then he found out I used a thumb tack and all was forgiven...Funny, when I was coaching track and Cross Country I had a tradition of wearing American Flag racing shorts, shorts I had worn for years and years when I was still racing. Some parents would become very upset with my attire. I always found it kind of funny that they would choose that to be upset about. And this was years and years before 911 and super patriotism. Now you hardly go anywhere without seeing American flag tshirts, jackets all kinds of attire. Now it's patriotic to be seen wearing the flag, but boy were those parents upset with me. Too bad, my principal didn't care and always supported me. Being an Infantryman didn't hurt my cause with him either, since I was the only teacher on his faculty that was/had militray service....

[JVS]

47. A perfect lesson about your rights and then the ratfuckers who will try to keep you from using them.

[Capitalocracy]

52. Teacher tests limits of free speech; finds them.

Looks like she had too much faith in people.

[Generic Other]

53. I have a plastic flag car trash bag the Washington State Patrol handed out

the year they made it a law that we have a trash bag in the car.

When I talk to my class about the proper way to display a flag, that pretty much shuts them up.

[TK421]

55. She should be fired for stepping on a piece of cloth? How odd

there are those who are obsessive about this flag. If you are a vet, then I suppose I could understand that since it is pretty much drilled into you to do so, but this is kind of silly.

[benld74]

58. THIS is WHY so many tornado's hit Kansas,,,,

[treestar]

61. Making a big deal of this sort of thing

Is just insane. Don't understand people who have nothing better to do than make something out of this.

[tblue37]

67. This pisses me off. Her free speech rights are obviously being violated!

I have never burned an American flag--or had any desire to do so--but if the idiots in Congress ever passed that flag-burning amendment they keep promising, I would be out in the streets burning flags in a New York minute--and I am in Kansas, not New York!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. "Sacred cows make the best hamburger." Mark Twain

[southernyankeebelle]

72. I find it ironic. My dad use to tell me when he see a guy burn a flag

during the VN era at protest it was their right to do so. He said he fought during WWII to give people the right to burn the flag even though he didn't agree with burning the flag. He was right.