I truly do not understand this...help me out, here!

[CTyankee]

Today, our garage mechanic, a great guy in many ways, was complaining about having to pay all of his state taxes. I was stunned. He has 5 grandchildren ranging in age from 6 months to 13 years old and they are all covered under CT's Husky medical insurance for kids who do not have private insurance. His son and daughter both work for him at his garage and his small business can't afford health insurance coverage. She has 4 boys and he has a little girl.

I don't understand this! How can he talk this way about paying taxes when his own flesh and blood are benefitting from state programs!

I haven't said anything but if I hear this again, I will...nicely...tell him I don't mind paying my state taxes when I "think of the children that those taxes help..."

[Myrina]

1. We aren't taught civics anymore ...

... people don't understand where their tax money goes or what it does, they just know that 'taxes are evil' and 'the little guy's getting screwed' because Faux says so and nobody corrects them. Educate him.

[elleng]

4. Quite right. W/o knowledge of how the world works,

we're all subject to the ignorance of fools (as we see.)

[CTyankee]

10. He's really a nice guy otherwise. I tell him he has to stop watching Fox

but he says he doesn't watch it.

I feel really badly for his family. They just struggle all the time. And they work very, very hard.

[elleng]

21. Yank, didn't notice this was your initial post!!!

HI, Here and There!!!

:hi:

[CTyankee]

25. Are ya coming to the Challenge today?

It's kinda fun...

[elleng]

27. Was just gonna look for it!

[jwirr]

29. This struggle is why he is feeling this way. This family are fighting

for their economic survival and they are one of the ones that should be given a tax cut to keep them going. I like what you said about how to tell him how you feel. Tactful.

[Avalux]

15. +1

It's so much easier to push the "taxes are evil" meme when people don't know any better.

[Fresh_Start]

2. You'd be too subtle for him to understand if you do that

you should tell him...why should other people pay for his grandchildren if he doesn't think they are worth it?

[BR_Parkway]

3. Ask him how much of a tax cut he'd have to get to buy insurance for

all his family? Odds are pretty strong that he's getting one helluva bargain at the moment

[CTyankee]

7. Yes, he is. His kids have work and he doesn't have to cover their kids.

I don't know what the son and daughter do for health insurance, but the state has some "affordable"health insurance that is thin coverage, but better than nothing.

[Dawson Leery]

5. A small percentage of activists on both sides are the only ones

who understand the technical mechanics of how things work.
The vast majority do not.
The 80/20 rule applies here.

[wryter2000]

6. I think your proposed reply is perfect.

Not a direct attack on him, but he can't help but get the point.

As to your question, my only guess is that "everyone knows" that taxes go to welfare for lazy people. There's no logic involved.

[CTyankee]

8. He doesn't know that his daughter let it slip to me about the health insurance.

She and her brother are single parents (never married the partners who parented with them).

Or maybe he feels that the state "owes" him the kids health insurance since he pays so much...

[sufrommich]

9. I used to work with a teabagger who I still keep in

touch with on Facebook. He complains about "socialism" all the time. His wife has been on social security disability for carpal tunnel since she was in her early 30s. Socialism to them is about what other people get.

[CTyankee]

11. Do you point out to him that "socialism" is exactly what his wife is getting?

[sufrommich]

13. We've had the discussion while we worked together. His

answer is "if it's there we're going to take advantage of it, everybody else does".As I said, teabaggers are strictly concerned with what other people get from "their" tax dollaes.

[Atypical Liberal]

24. Exactly.

Whenever I hear a conservative bang on the "socialism" drum, I point out that we also have socialized schools, socialized libraries, socialized roads, socialized police forces, socialized courts, socialized fire protection, and a socialized military.

All of these things are government services that we all benefit from whether we pay for them or not and whether we use them or not.

We have these things because as a society we have decided that they are essential to stability, and they are things that most of us could not afford individually if they were not provided collectively.

But when conservatives say they don't like social programs, what they really mean is they don't like anyone who isn't paying taxes being able to use social programs. They are totally cool with using them themselves, because "they pay taxes". Everyone else can fend for themselves. Real Christ-like attitude.

[CTyankee]

26. "everybody else" pays taxes too...perhaps not income taxes, but

they sure as hell pay sales taxes...

[Atypical Liberal]

28. Oh, but you see, that doesn't count.

Where did they get the money to buy things to pay sales tax with in the first place? Huh? Huh? They are supposed to die like good peasants.

[CTyankee]

30. Ah, I forgot THAT...

yeah, right...

[hamsterjill]

12. He shouldn't be complaining.

The daughter with 4 children, together, would take a pretty large bite out of state programs.

It astounds me at times that people have children and don't realize that they cost money!

[CTyankee]

17. I was astonished to learn that she had never gotten married!

Now, I'm not sure if all of her children were fathered by the same guy (and it is none of my business anyway). I guess I shouldn't be judgmental anyway...she's doing the best she can...and I'm sure she loves her kids...

[handmade34]

14. ignorance of facts

lack of critical thinking skills
distortion of information from news sources, family and friends
unwillingness to think for one's self
distorted sense of reality
a social system that derides and exploits poorer people
and on and on

I am aghast at the number of lower and middle income people that complain about taxes, bitch without learning and acting appropriately to help their situation (vote democratic, not support mega corporations, etc), spout freedom to do whatever they want (without concern for consequences and how we seriously affect one another)...

nothing is black and white and I understand some irrational behavior but we do need to speak up and gently speak truth to many people

[Recursion]

16. I like getting a laptop from Best Buy. I don't like paying for it.

Those are two real emotional reactions; what's so confusing?

[closeupready]

19. Try addressing the threadstarter's point instead of raising a red herring.

Thank you.

[Recursion]

20. How does that not address it?

He likes the things the state does and doesn't like paying for them. I was saying those are both normal emotional reactions.

[closeupready]

22. Sorry, I guess that DOES address it. My mistake.

:hi:

Separately, I think the threadstarter may not have meant he's confused, I think he meant, he doesn't know how to respond to the mechanic's complaint.

On further thought as to that question, this is what I would suggest as a rejoinder:

"Did you know that illegal immigrants can collect social security benefits?"

When he says, "No, they can't! They haven't paid in!", you say something like, "Ding! Ding! Ding!"

[treestar]

18. Amazing how disconnected people can be

Probably just thinks it comes out of the blue, along with the roads, public schools, police, fire, etc.

[Blue_Tires]

23. I know a whole lot of people who hate taxes that get their living from the government

cops, military, teachers, professors, etc...

I guess it's so normal here no one bats an eye...

[GeorgeGist]

31. Same guy will never complain about having to pay ...

all those corporate profits; for which he never gets a thing.