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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:41 AM
Original message
I Wonder If President Obama Really Believes This

By James Fallows

Sep 6 2011, 6:35 PM ET

Read the two bits of testimony by Congressional staffers -- one Republican, one Democratic -- about the nihilist freefire zone that is the modern Congress. Then consider President Obama's Labor Day pledge:

"We've got a lot more work to do to recover fully from this recession," Mr. Obama said. "I'm going to propose ways to put America back to work that both parties can agree to because I still believe both parties can work together to solve our problems."

An objective observer must of course conclude that in fact there is no way "to put American back to work that both parties can agree to," because not agreeing is, for today's Republican leadership, a paramount goal.

It is admirable, even touching, that the President of all the people states his faith that "both parties can work together to solve our problems." But can he actually "still believe" this? Based on what vote? By what Republican? On what bill? At what point during Obama's time in office? It is hard to imagine that he has not noticed the real-world evidence. So if he has observed reality and knows that no matter what he proposes the GOP simply will not sign on, what's the next move? And lot depends on whether and when the "Mr. Reasonable" strategy pays off.

<snip>

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/09/i-wonder-if-president-obama-really-believes-this/244567/
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. he knows both parties are pimping for corporations
gawd
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HappyMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. No matter what he does or says, the pukes aren't going
to like it. They would argue that blue isn't really blue. Both sides are too busy kicking dirt at one another to do their damn jobs.

If they don't pass something, they are going to make themselves look bad, at this point. They got their miserable asses elected by yammering on about jobs.

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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. And His Options Are?
The majority of Americans want something done to improve the economy but the rushpublicans are hellbent on destroying it. That's your game. As long as they control the House and can turn the Senate into a dysfuncational mess they will succede in scuttling any substantial programs or plans this President proposes. So what do you do? "Go big"...so big it "satisfies" the critics on the left and then when there aren't the votes to pass then Obama gets the blame of being weak cause he isn't the unitary executive. Or attempt to compromise where possible...get something? Trade some tax cuts or the extention of the payroll tax holiday for an extension of unemployment benefits. Do you make the deal? It's easy to stand from on high and say this or that should be done...it's another to look at what CAN be done...or if it can be done at all.

IMO we are in total gridlock...nothing of any substance will move. I doubt we'll even get a budget out of this House that will pass muster or be worth signing. As long as they believe that the worse this country gets the better it is for them the more they'll obstruct. And hope that all sides blame the President.

Personally when I hear the word "jobs" these days I always ask what kind? While we do need a massive rebuild of the infrastructure that's only one small segment of the economy. What about the large number of skilled people who can't drive a steam shovel. The economic mess is far beyond just what one person can do...but it sure can be made worse by the actions of an entire party.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. One option he hasn't tried yet is fighting. Holding his ground.
I'd cheer on the man who finally stands up to the bully, and so would a lot of people. It's our lunch he keeps meekly giving away anyway.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Then Expect Nothing...
As playing pissing matches or "standing up to the bully" means nothing will get passed and we'll see lots of angst and posturing. Welcome to "divided government". I've been cheering James Hoffa's statements and those who can and should be stepping up the fight, but as far as doing anything to positively affect the economy and the fates of millions, playing the all or nothing game will mean nothing.
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durablend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Swell then
We can just give the Republicans everything they want and get the charade over with
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yep...All Or Nothing...
Sadly I see this as a big charade on many fronts...political points to be won. But c'est la vie. It's all or nothing out there and any concept of compromise on either side is total capitulation. Again, I have very low expectations of anything getting done for the next year and beyond as this government is gridlocked. Maybe one side or the other will prevail next year but all I see is dysfunction and polarization.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Standing up to a bully is certainly not the same thing as a pissing match.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. The Standing Up Is Next Year In The Voting Booth
Blame 2010 whatever way you want but its the rise of the teabaggers that has taken this country down. They're not standing down...and will push the rushpublican party further off the abyss. This may be more like wrestling with a pig rather than standing up to a bully. Either way, standing up, as admirable as it is, will mean nothing gets accomplished with this government.

I like the "standing up" to be done by the rank and file...by people getting involved in local elections and working from the bottom up as we've seen the top down approach means even more gridlock. Want a more progressive/liberal country, then one needs to get more of those kind of politicians funded and elected. The way you ultimately stand up to the bullies is to beat them at the ballot box.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. We were talking about what the president's options are, not the voters'. Stick to the subject.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The Options Are...
Campaign or govern. "Stand up" and "go big" and make promises and proposals that won't stand a chance of passing an obstructionist congress...thus campaign. And campaign it will be. But then expect critics to say he's "all talk" when there's not the votes to deliver the promises. Meanwhile the economy will continue to stagnate.

I'm not very happy with any of the options here as the governing is now a sign of weakness. I have very low expectations these days.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. You and I have different ideas about what will happen if Obama were to stand up for principle.
You seem to think that the critics of that move will hold sway. You concede all power to them, and dismiss the ability of ordinary people to have their own reactions, to make up their own minds. So you back away from the fight, you shrink from even trying.

I think there are always some fights worth having, even when the odds of winning are long. That's what principle means. And I think ordinary people still have an awareness of that and, despite the critics, would approve.

Ordinary people are a variable in this equation. It's not just a president versus a congress. If the president stood up for once, he might start a chain of events that, with public opinion as a variable, could actually result in a better outcome. I'd like to see him try. Giving up before you even try, because you 'know' what will happen, is defeatism.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Since there is nothing Obama can do other than bring it to the people
Why on earth would you be opposed to that. That is what fighting is all about. Get your case out to the American people and let them decide.. It matters not whether Obama is meek or mad. Republicans have vowed to stop anything and everything Obama proposes..IMO it is time to get mad and start using the "bully pulpit" on a daily basis..Put Republicans on the defensive for a change..
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. In reality, that is the only option left for him...
he should take advantage of it.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. All Well And Good...
I'm very much in favor of what James Hoffa said the other day as well as many other folks from Michael Moore to Bernie Sanders. These people should be the advocates...the conscious, the driving forces to energize and organize. The job of a President is to govern and to do so within the framework of the balance of power and the Constitution. Right now we're facing an economic mess/depression where action needs to be taken and two sides with totally different viewpoints and any attempt to move off the orthodoxy is considered "weak". Thus its impossible to govern.

Unfortunately we have too many politicians and a system that is in constant campaign mode...where making stands and beating on a "bully pulpit" have merit, but too few who want to govern. Apparently governing is now a sign of weakness.

Right now this administration is raising $1,000,000,000 (had to put all those zeros in) to get their message out next year. I'm hoping he comes out and heats up on the obstructionism and gets in the rushpublican's faces in next year's election, but that's not a solution to the mess we're facing...and that mess is a government to total gridlock while the economy tanks.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. You have it back-words.
If he went big, he might not accomplish anything immediately, but everyone would know that Democrats are serious and intend to fight for us. That would be enough to get people to fight for him and for other democrats in the elections and purge a lot of the republicans from office so that in his next four years he has a chance to get more done, more easily than this time, if he really, truly has the interest and the will.

However, if he goes is soft with the compromise rhetoric from the start and then caves in, as experience has shown us is his habit so far, he still accomplishes nothing. You seem to think he accomplishes something. But he only gets the crumbs that the republicans allow him to have, and these are guaranteed to be nothing more than cosmetic. They may look like something slightly worth having, but there is nothing there of any substance. In exchange for those crumbs of no substance, Obama has again given republicans everything they wanted, angered his base, and given democrats absolutely no reasons to vote for him except that, by default there simply isn't anyone else there to replace him.

In this second scenario, when he wins the election, republicans are likely to retain their seats, so Obama is going to be in the same situation next time that he's in now. He's still going to be facing republicans who refuse to cooperate, and he's still going to be incapable of dealing with them, or negotiating anything of substance that doesn't benefit a corporation.

What is he doing to impress us with his supposed skills as President?

It is only his constant wars spending through defense contractors that has been propping up the economy, because he hasn't been willing to propose, much less fight for any significant infrastructure and jobs bills to spend the money to prop up the economy through spending on rebuilding the US and supporting our people.

Despite every promise he made during his campaign, he has spent his entire term so far working on free trade agreements, that are ready to be unveiled. One is with Panama, a tax-evasion country. That free trade agreement will make the tax evasion legal and permanent.

Remember when NAFTA passes, and almost immediately agriculture in Mexico collapsed? This was because we flooded Mexico with produce that was heavily subsidized by our taxes so that it was cheaper than anything they could grow. It bankrupted all their farmers. They ended selling their land to big American Agribusiness and mostly leaving their land. Now the same thing is about to happen in South Korea. It is already being planned and mapped out.

It is a known, expected and planned consequence of the upcoming free trade agreement with South Korea. We are going to destabilize the entire South Korean economy and put millions of people into permanent poverty. But this is okay because corporations will be there to benefit. Isn't that wonderful?

Aren't these exactly the types of things you think of when you think about Obama being a strong leader? Corporations have no trouble getting what they want from Obama's administration.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. And Nothing Will Be Accomplished...
If Democrats don't know this party stands for the working class then we've lost far more than just a party...we've lost an entire country. Posturing is all well and good when you're not looking for a job or trying to fight off foreclosure and have the luxuary of playing partisan games and "making statements" that in the end will mean further polarization. But this appears to be the mindset of many today and thus anyone who attempts to venture from the extremes is seen as weak.

Here's my deal. While I'd love for the corporate monsters to be tamed and this country to turn progressive/liberal this afternoon, that's not the real world I live in. Unfortunately its the corporations that now control the national political scene. This administration will need nearly $1 billion to fight the equal amount or more that will be spent by the other side next year. The $50 and $100 checks don't cut it.

A sad lesson is learned...the only time the "little guy" matters is after the money is collected...the final weeks of the election.

When I see the term "strong leader" I also think of the term "unitary executive". Be careful what you wish for...
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. Strong leader doesn't mean unitary executive.
The unitary executive ignored one party and pushed all his wishes through congress. That's what Bush did.

A strong leader, what we don't have, at least makes his point and defends it well enough that every time it comes up his firm stand for something means that the republicans are stuck making their stand against it. They can't weasel a position claiming that they're for job, because they're fully exposed fighting against jobs. They can't pretend they're protecting medicaid when clear, public debates keep putting them on the spot where they're trying to undermine medicaid. Etc.

And Republicans couldn't fool people into thinking they support the people because the strong leader keeps getting the people involved in the battles, openly, talking to the public, getting them involved in the issues, getting the public to actively pressure people and take sides. A strong leader with charisma that can mobilize people has a huge advantage, because people will get involved. They just need to be told how.

But Obama hasn't been willing to let people get involved. He doesn't tell people what he is doing, or how people can help. When he talks to the public he basically only tells the public what he wants the public to accept, because his advisers say it's a good idea. But those are the same corporate advisers that the republicans listen to. That's not going to motivate many people, and it doesn't give people any way to get involved. It makes people passive followers. They're not part of the organizational activities in any way.

A strong organizer with the army of adoring fans he had at the start of his administration might have found ways to address them often, keep them motivated, keep them involved, and sic them on opponents. Turn them into volunteers. Turn them into administration campaign workers for strategic campaigns. Did we see any of that? I sure didn't.

Unfortunately, with a weak President who's progressive image was just a Public Relations construction for getting elected, it got put away as soon as he got elected. The liberal advisers were fired, and corporate advisers were put into all the important roles.

With a weak president who only relies on those insider corporate consultants and lobbyists (who are the same consultants and lobbyists that the republicans listening to) where are people going to rally? What are we going to rally for?

Health care "reform" was a great example of all the ways he failed to take advantage of people as a resource.

The whole nation was poised to support Single Payer and Universal Health Care. The President could have had the entire medical profession of Nurses unions, Medical Associations, Charitable Organizations, Health Care Advocacy Groups, and Millions of Patients and our families from all over the country marching with him to implement solutions

  • IF he included health care professionals in PUBLIC talks and in the campaign to sway congress. But he excluded them and only allowed the insurance industry and the for-profit healthcare delivery corporations to have a say in private talks behind closed doors.

  • IF he included patients and supporters in the in public talks and in the campaign to sway congress. He kept the entire public locked out, as if we were just there to be told what was happening, but not part of the discussion.

  • IF he got in front of the media and spoke directly to the public, using the same language and tone we kept hearing during his campaign to rally people, and told people to get involved in pressuring politicians, writing letters, marching on Washington if necessary, he had so many people in love with him at the time he could have had half of this nation in the streets, on the phones and writing demands with him. But he didn't. Suddenly, instead of insurance companies being the biggest problem in American Health Care, he decided that they were the only vital and unchangeable element of American Health Care.

  • IF he had used his populist charisma and charm that we all saw him put to such good use during his campaign and he had called upon those armies of supporters that came to all his campaign events wanting to hear about universal health care and single payer, he could have asked them to do ANYTHING for him. He could have had a huge army of supporters working as volunteers on a public campaign to help him get a program passed. But he never created a public program. He kept it a closed-door political negotiation. His first decision, without public input or support, was to promise the insurance industry that there would be no universal health care or single payer. He caved in from the very beginning without any negotiations at all, claiming it was necessary in order to "bring them to the table." As if they would have needed any bribery to bring them there when he was already giving them the exclusive invitation.


That was the perfect example of how he falls apart in negotiations and leaves people with nothing worth supporting, and nothing worth backing, and he only steps forward with any demands when they are for a corporation. Never for actual people.

Even the stuff that was supposed to benefit people, like expanding who can buy insurance, turned out to be just a benefit for insurance companies, not people.

i.e. We can get the privilege of buying insurance policies, but with such high costs and such poor coverage that we're paying a fortune to get an annual checkup, and then we'd go bankrupt if we ever use it for anything else. But the company is guaranteed lots of revenue every month! Yeah! We get to pay a fortune to own an insurance card! It's a great Public Relations Victory for Obama. But fewer people than ever have real access to affordable health care.

That's the problem with a weak leader. Those negotiations where you "get what's possible" mostly just result in the illusion of getting some kind of victory for us. Aren't you sick of of cheering for the fake victories yet? I'd rather work, step by step, towards real ones.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. The whole concept is false. There is nothing that will put America back to work
that both parties agree with and short of conditions like India or outright slavery absolutely nothing in the TeaPubliKlan toolbox to do such a thing at all.
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
8. He can't perpetuate that myth forerver, so what's the plan?
Okay, if we accept that Obama is a sentient human being and understands that there is no middle ground that the repugs will support, and we accept that his "bipartisanship" message is really just a political communications gambit, then what does he do when the "bipartisan" jobs plan he announces on Thursday is dead 10 minutes after he vacates the podium? What then?
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. He wants "solutions" that favor big business.
The only way to justify his Wall Street agenda to democrats is in the name of compromise. I guess we're not suppose to notice that the "compromise" always ends up being exactly what big business wants.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. What should he say, "the other side won't play so I'm not going to try anything"?
He's already tasked each department with finding an administrative stimulus to enact over the next year; I really don't see the point in Obama not even making the effort in the speech to get a consensus, particularly when he's already moving forward on the executive-branch-only stimulus.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. This is what truly frustrates me about Obama.
I can see why he has to recognize bi partisan efforts but really the days of saying "can agree" are long gone. The Republicans are in annihilation mode it started out personally targeting Obama and now has morphed into politically and economically targeting the American worker. Some of them say they want lesser government intrusion just give that lie a chance and you will get a repeat of Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida on a national level when the executive branch goes republican. They all use the same tactics promoted by Republicans on the Federal level. When will the Obama administration get it this is a crisis that threatens the Republic. The Republican Party wants to create a Democratic Party of Joe Lieberman clones. If nothing else please stop giving them what they want. You cannot move Republicans with kindness they have no empathy and at heart are totalitarians.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
19. our current problem is, the GOP has hijacked eveything so completely, anything that gets passed
needs some GOP votes. they have accomplished their gola of paralyzing the government.

thats said, i wish he'd can that rhetoric sometimes.
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dmosh42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-07-11 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
24. I think this will be mostly a political thing, not expecting any Repuke support!
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