So let me get this straight: We have to watch what we say because Fox News will frame the narrative?

[trumad]

Really?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Brickbat]

2. That's what some are saying here. And then we can't possibly call the other side on it when they

say stupid things.

[Marnie]

35. What exactly is stupid about suggesting that we take the

other party out of office through voting?

Except that Republicans don't want Americans, who they have not hand picked, to have a vote.

[Luminous Animal]

38. Yes. I'd like to know the answer to that, too.

[Brickbat]

45. Some people don't hear past "take them out."

It's a little annoying. Or disingenuous. Or trolling, who knows.

[Occulus]

48. Notice that the pearl-clutchers here are pretty much across the board

leaving out the part of the quote related to voting.

Leaving that out, after this much time and the way FOX doctored the quote, should be a bright red flag.

[gratuitous]

3. Got it in one

See, if we don't couch our comments in the most inoffensive and bland language, Fox News will say mean things and ridicule us. You'll be able to tell you've delivered your remarks properly when Fox News doesn't notice them or quotes them with approval. Like, say, when Sarah Palin says anything. That's the mark we should all strive to hit, because then you'll know that you haven't said anything.

Offensive.

Said anything offensive. That's what I meant to say.

[KarenS]

4. No matter what is said Faux news will

try to frame the narrative,,,, using any means necessary ~ taking things out of context or changing them around or out & out lying.

That's what they do.

sooooo it really doesn't matter :shrug:

[trumad]

8. Right

but some here want us to watch our mouths.

[KarenS]

23. oh I see that now,,,,

whatever,,,,

I'm old :) I don't have to watch my mouth anymore and I don't recommend anyone else watch theirs.

I'd rather know what someone's really thinking than that carefully measured politically correct BS that passes for conversation these days.

[Contrary1]

64. Must be a "Karen + Old" thing...

We should form our own club. :)

Your name tells me what decade you were born...the same as mine.

It's amazing what you can get away with when the audience perceives you as "old". That, along with the fact that I started to gray very early has enabled me to let people know what I think for quite some time now.

I watch my mouth even less than I use to. Surprising to me, is the fact that so many younger people take the time to listen. They seem to be interested in my views, since I was a former "hippie".

All is not lost...this next generation coming up does not buy into all the propaganda.

[CTyankee]

37. OH, it's not just Fox news....it's the main stream media saying "Oh,you can't say that1"

I'm, so sick of it I could scream...

[Fumesucker]

5. I thought Ari Fleischer let us know a long time ago?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0928-04.htm

[tblue]

6. Fox does it anyway.

May as well give them a reason. The sooner we stop worrying about their reaction to our self-defense the better.

[fascisthunter]

7. some say that, but it is a trap in and of itself

if you claim to worry about what your enemy is going to say to other americans about you, you have the perfect "out" to no do what you should be doing.

[cali]

9. No. We have to fight smart. And its hardly just Fux.

We actually want people to hear what we say, right?

[trumad]

10. See---now your one of the folks telling us to watch what we say.

I heard what Hoffa said....plain and simple. But Fox distorts his words and you get all worried.

[cali]

11. Actually, no I'm not. I said that Hoffa's wording was stupid.

People want to be stupid that's up to them, but I won't ignore stupid or not comment on stupid. And no, dear one, I'm not worried. I'm just observing.

[trumad]

14. His wording was stupid to you and that's fine.

But when you see a strong majority of DUers agree with everything he said---don't you step back a minute and go wow--- his words resonate?

Or are you so worried at what the misinformed hear and think that it will hurt the Progressive cause?

And what do they hear? There hear the Fox news narrative.

[Booster]

17. Cali's right, Trumad. Hoffa should have said let's vote these

son of bitches out; using "take out" are terms both Palin & Bachmann have used and they didn't mean vote either. No matter who uses that term it's stupid. And for the record I stand by Hoffa for the meaning what he said but he should have been more careful.

[trumad]

21. I know what he meant...you know what he meant

so so does anyone with a fucking brain knows what he meant.

[madinmaryland]

41. So you are suggesting that we as Democrats start talking like Fucking Repukes?

I guess you would be happy with the gungeonites here referring to taking second amendment remedies against their opponents.

:wtf:

[Luminous Animal]

29. Taking someone out is also used in sports vernacular.

Cali is wrong.

[Booster]

33. Doesn't it mean to eliminate them?

[Luminous Animal]

36. Yes. In the context of playing a game. Similarly, Hoffa quite clearly stated that

we are taking out Republicans via the ballot box.

Nobody bats an eye when a sports player claims that he or she is going to take out their opponent and everyone knows that violence is not implied.

[Booster]

39. But you don't agree it would have been smarter to say "we need

to vote these son of bitches out of office?"

[Luminous Animal]

43. No. And I don't think anybody else would have noticed until Fox News released

their dishonest edited version to make it look like he was not talking about voting not violence. In order to create the false impression that Hoffa was referring to violent means, they had to edit the tape.

I am not going to let Fox news fuck with my brain and commonly understood phrases.

[Booster]

47. That's kind of my point. Everybody with a tv knows Fox News

makes up shit. If somebody doesn't know that in this day and age then they shouldn't be represented anybody, much less millions of people. I guess I long for the days when we had really sharp, smart people who were always one step ahead of their enemies. We don't have that anymore and, funny thing, Bachmann's face just jumped into my head. Oh, well, we'll just agree to disagree and let it go.

[Luminous Animal]

49. We will have to agree to disagree but I feel the need to make one last point.

Do you honestly think that people should watch what they say because of what the dishonest shits at Fox News might do? If so, you are ceding a lot of power of self-censorship to the enemy and you end up saying a lot of pretty words that have little content.

[Booster]

57. Absolutely not. I'm just saying, be smart and frame your

statements so that there can be no manipulating your words - "we need to vote those son of bitches out" is much clearer and concise than "we need to take those son of bitches out". No matter what is said they are going to twist it so I'm just saying don't help them.

[Waiting For Everyman]

62. Actually, it was smart.

As long as it remains a controversy it's a story to be covered, and he gets to repeat his points.

[chill_wind]

71. Yep. And I hope it's just the beginning.

'Sonsofbitches' is waaay too tame as epithats go for what the banksters, the filty rich politician-owning elite and their union-busters have done to this country. A little frank talk about their pure corrupt greed and evil is desperately needed. I'm glad he's not backing down.

[Courtesy Flush]

73. His wording wasn't stupid at all

Just because the words "take them out" have more than one meaning does not mean they should only be interpreted to mean that one thing.

If your friend said "My parents are visiting this afternoon, and I'm going to take them out," what would you think? Would you really think he planned to murder them? Would you even think it was poor wording? Unless he said it in a fake mobster voice while making a slashing motion across his throat, you wouldn't give it a thought.

This is entirely fabricated, and too many on the Left are playing along. Stop it already!

[chill_wind]

75. +1. Stop facilitating the ridiculous faux outrage by playing along

with it and pretending anyone- anywhere- could construe with a straight face that he meant he was going to go right out and mobilize an army to shoot or poison a bunch of Republican politicians. Giving validity to the execrable fox news spin is what is politically, self-destructively stupid. Stupid. Stupid. STUPID!

[Occulus]

31. Like I said. n/t

[The Wizard]

59. What percentage of the Pox audience

will vote for Obama? Worrying about what the propagandists at Pox are going to say is like worrying about the darkness of night.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. they heard us this weekend

and I am fine with that message, no matter how hard fox spins it.

The polite and civil messages are lost in the media white noise.

[Skittles]

66. no, we have to fight, PERIOD

[alphafemale]

12. Fox News can go fuck themselves with a barbed wire dildo and kerosene lube.

They can frame that any way they damn please.

[malaise]

13. LOL

Amazing isn't it

[trumad]

15. It is....

again--- a strong majority of Progressives are applauding this guy.... but there are some that are worried we might look bad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Well some of our "friends" on this side of the aisle

Are saying that...them fighting words are SSSSCCCCAAAARRRYYYY!!!!!

[Journeyman]

18. Of course. Look at what you just said: "We have to watch. . . Fox News." See how that works? . . .

Better if everyone remains mute and simply tapes a "thought bubble" to the side of their head. That way, Fox (or really, any reichwing source) can simply fill in what words they want you to say without having to bother themselves with selectively editing what you do say.

[TheKentuckian]

20. Faux and the mealymouth brigade can sit and spin.

[markpkessinger]

22. When The Richard, Cheney, told a sitting senator...

...to "Go fuck yourself" on the Senate floor, Fox News cheered the event. Hoffa calls out a class of politicians for their systematic attempts to undermine the programs that helped to build the working and middle classes of this country by calling them "sons of bitches," and suddenly the good folks at Fox are clutching their pearls. Ya gotta love it.

[Solly Mack]

24. How many times has that same bullshit been posted over the years?

Too many to count.

Watch what you say..."they" will use it against us!

Ohnoes!!!!!

[unblock]

25. trumad says, "... get this straight: ... watch ... fox news...."

fox news today is reporting that notorious du'er "trumad" has endorsed fox news and recommends watching fox news!"


:evilgrin:

[QC]

26. Is that what the pragmatic sensibles are saying now? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Yup...nice and shiny old toy feel to it too...

Them talking points are getting old.

[QC]

54. But what will the neighbors think? n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Shhh...we should ask papa bear if it is ok

:hi:

[Luminous Animal]

28. A hearty recommend. Fox news leads most of us by the nose.

[Ohio Joe]

30. Fuck that. I'm going to speak my mind.

FAUX will just make shit up anyway, it's not like they ever report the truth.

[scarletwoman]

32. "One might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb." That's what I think.

The right wing was already calling union members "thugs" long before Hoffa spoke up yesterday.

It's about time for someone to clearly express some anger and the intent to fight back. I have absolutely NO problem with what Hoffa said and how he said it. We owe the right NO civility whatsoever.

sw

[Marnie]

34. That's want Obama does and he is our party's leader.

Isn't he?

[HappyMe]

40. Hell no.

There's absolutely no reason to take Faux into consideration. There's no reason to watch what we say, or make any apologies.
It's time to rattle some cages.

[cyglet]

42. Propaganda machines propagandizing

and who the hell cares what they do or what words they put in whose mouth?

They are what they are (in spite of any alluding to any contrary, and calling themselves "news" or "news talk").

That they have any credibility left after doing this and other unscrupulous things (where's the FBI phone hacking investigation at?) is amazing to me.

[Dawson Leery]

44. That's what happens when one side (the right) has their own noise machine

to frame the narrative. The left, like fools run and hide in fear. Democrats and Liberals must never back down.

[chill_wind]

76. It's just absurd that Hoffa's comments are giving any self-claimed liberals the vapors.

A little combative figurative speech, a little confrontation, and they're worried about what RW media charlatans will do with it, which is the same thing the RW rat-bastard media will do all day, every day, no matter whatsoever what day it is. All this latest pearl-clutching over some speech metaphors really is a measure of just how brutally conditioned to fear some in the new party of bipartisanshit really have become.

[Odin2005]

46. Those folks spouting that are firmly brainwashed by Establishment Beltway Bullshit.

The M$M will spin what we say no matter what.

[lonestarnot]

50. I say fuck that, and fuck them.

[Skip Intro]

51. self delete

misunderstood the topic at hand

[Generic Brad]

52. This is the latest version of the "Dean Scream"

They deliberately take things out of context, perform creative editing, and then pump up the artificial outrage machine. The most innocuous statements get amplified and criticized until they sound strange and irrational.

Hoffa was onto something. Using plain and simple language to call out Republicans resonates with people. They are afraid this theme will catch in so they are attacking it with everything they have got. It neutered Howard Dean's message and they are hoping it will work again.

Instead of backing down and apologizing, more of us should be speaking the way Hoffa did. Speak the truth and call them out. Their overreactions indicate that Hoffa hit a raw nerve.

[The Wizard]

53. No one in their right mind watches Pox

And I really don't care what Pox News cultists like or don't like. I refuse to waste time either engaging or worrying about mental defectives.

[Avalux]

56. FOX lies about everything so it doesn't matter what we say. n/t

[libodem]

60. That is about it

They lie and then repeat fair and balanced. They are neither.

[guitar man]

58. Screw that

It doesn't matter what we say, they'll just make up whatever shit they want to anyway

[RetroLounge]

61. anyone who tells us to watch our mouth

can go fuck themselves.

RL

[Waiting For Everyman]

63. Whatever we're doing that annoys them, we should do more of.

Their phoney little prissy snitfits are of no consequence. The RW's LYING about the quote is the news story - it makes anything we say about it Aok. "Middle voters", especially women, HATE LYING, remember that - many are actually freaks about it.

The RW's lies have definitely not been hung around their necks often enough. This one, is a thing of beauty - if it's harped on until every low-info voter in the country knows about it. That is the only way to get through to the public these days.

Each and every example like this that comes along, that same thing should be done with it - including their phoney economic policy lies. But it's good to start small with something like this. That way, people know what the theme is, as it goes along.

The Left wastes a lot of useful material, by flat-out bungling it.

[gateley]

65. You have to watch what you say because Fox News will EDIT it --

I heard both the unedited and Fox-edited versions today.

The unedited version had the word "voters" in it, and was clearly talking about voting them out.

I'd sue if I were Hoffa. :7

[Tuesday Afternoon]

67. Fox News can kiss my ass.

[Recursion]

68. Are we going to whine like conservatives every time somebody complains?

I hope not. He made the point, he took the heat. Move on.

[hobbit709]

69. Faux can read my lips "GO FUCK YOURSELVES"

[chill_wind]

70. The decades of toxic hate-soaked sewage and LIES emanating from

RW radio, RW television, RW internet, RW feces flinging teabagger-captured politicians makes Hoffa sound like a boy scout in comparison.

The hand-wringers on both sides of the political spectrum over what Hoffa said seem to have very serious problems of discernment and perspective. Enough of the cringing and cowering over what Fox news will do. When they don't have a soundbyte, they are willing to completely manufacture one every single day of the week. It's time to give them something to talk about. Rat bastards.

[AsahinaKimi]

72. Makes you wonder ..

IF people from Fox News ever reads our posts. If so .. Here is my message to FOX NEWS!
Kutabare o Baka ze!!

[Atman]

74. No, DUers will.

Just look at my other flaming thread.