Danziger Toon - "But I want the lowest price, no matter what it costs!"

[n2doc]

[ZombieHorde]

1. Unemployed people are buying 48" Hi Def TVs?

I am not so sure that is a common phenomenon.

[Warpy]

4. I think some newly employed workaholic former execs have

since all they think they'll be doing is sitting home and watching ESPN. They're getting them from Walmart instead of the glitzy electronics stores, but they're getting them.

The working class is a little more realistic. They know their unemployment won't go far and they don't have a portfolio that's earning them income.

[Fumesucker]

5. I'm unemployed, I have a 19" monitor I got from Craigslist..

And no fucking TV at all..

The cartoonist can kindly go fuck himself.

[sufrommich]

8. It's a cartoon. It's making a point not about the consequences of

a consuming public that demands the lowest prices for products.

[Fumesucker]

10. And pointing straight at the victims instead of the perpetrators..

If we had decent incomes we could have nice things without having to constantly worry about how much every tiny item costs.

[sufrommich]

13. The decent wages went away with the factory jobs. You know,

when we used to make stuff?

[Fumesucker]

16. Yep, the workers all decided to export their own jobs to China..

Over the strenuous objections of industry and government.

:eyes:

[sufrommich]

18. Are you denying that consumers bought cheap asian made

products while we still had the choice between the more expensive US brands? Because we most certainly did. We bought "made in Japan" before "made in China" undersold them. We all did.

[Fumesucker]

20. Why were the Asian brands cheap?

A rational trade policy would have leveled out the prices between imported and domestic goods.

This cartoon is basically trying to point the finger at unemployed people for thirty plus years of government policy specifically aimed at moving manufacturing jobs overseas.

It is an exercise in misleading caricature pointed straight at the victims.

I usually like Danziger even though his work is very dark and angry, this time his aim is 180 degrees off but his venom is just as strong as ever.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. No. He is saying that the REASON the shlub is unemployed is because

of the American habit of buying the cheapest.

People swarmed WalMart long before we had 10% unemployment. Now, we are in a vicious cycle of having to by the cheap crap, because of our previous habit of choosing to buy the cheap crap.

Some of us have been sounding warnings about the WalMart syndrome for years, predicting this exact result. And in answer, we got "but they really are cheaper!"

[Fumesucker]

30. But the person in the cartoon asking the questions of the unemployed man...

He's the guy that made the decision that Asian products would be cheaper than domestic ones.

And American incomes have been flat in constant dollars since the 1970's.

Meanwhile cars have gotten bigger, houses have gotten bigger and the amount of junk we all "have to have" has increased exponentially.

[TheMadMonk]

21. Victims who willfully and cheerfully, aided and abetted those perps.

We started doing the damage to ourselves back when we DID have decent wages and choices.

We're the ones who chose the choices which have ultimately left us with no choice but the one between Coke and Pepsi.

[Fumesucker]

29. It was some time in the early 1970's when the domestic auto industry decided quality was unimportant

I know that after teen years and a young adulthood of driving and indeed being an enthusiast of domestic cars I switched to Japanese ones in the mid 80's because I had three domestic utter lemons in a row.

The management of the domestic auto industry totally dropping the ball on quality and owner satisfaction is what drove a lot of people to foreign brands in the first place.

When the car guys were running the domestics they put out good to great products, when the MBA bean counters took over they ruined the reputation of the companies they controlled.

That pattern was common in industry after industry, the quality in American products largely went away before people started buying imports in the huge quantities they do today.

[ZombieHorde]

12. The poor are buying school suplies and clothes for their children,

but the cartoon would have a different tone if those items were in the cart.

The poor are buying toilet paper and toothpaste, but the cartoon would have a different tone if those items were in the cart.

I suspect the cartoon is a lie. It is saying even the poor can afford to buy giant TVs.

[sufrommich]

14. Jesus, whatever. Don't let me interrupt your 24 hour outrage

session. I think most people will understand the cartoon is not an attack on the poor. :eyes:

[ZombieHorde]

15. You know I am right, so you attack me personally. So typical. nt

[sufrommich]

19. No, I don't "know that you're right". The cartoon is pretty

self explanatory. You don't get it.

[ZombieHorde]

33. The cartoon does not work because it is based on a false assumption.

If the cart was filled with food and school supplies, the punchline wouldn't work.

[Fumesucker]

17. Come on down here to the South..

This cartoon is a bank shot off the the most common prejudices, stuff like Reagan used to mouth about welfare queens with Cadillacs.

[TheMadMonk]

28. The cartoon is a) not entirely a "lie", and b) the sort of lie which...

...illustrates rather than deceives.

It is perfectly possible for the poor to be able to "afford" what were big ticket items when I grew up, on easy terms (nothing dowm, 0% for 24 months, but absolutely ruinous if you allow those 24 months to expire with as little as a since cent still owing). A car can be had on a lease made to look like a loan by almost anyone.

It's the school supplies, the food, the bog roll and soap, the jocks, socks and singlets which are unaffordable to the poor.

[Fumesucker]

32. The lie in the cartoon is that unemployed people are all rushing out and buying luxury goods..

When nothing could be further from the truth.

[CrispyQ]

35. Danziger missed it on this.

Instead of the consumer answering, "Yeah, but I'm unemployed..." he should have answered, "Yeah, but I have a job..."

[Prophet 451]

36. No but it is a common myth

Whenever the subject of the unemployed comes up, there will be some prat who starts in with a stereotype of the unemployed living high on the hog.

[Booster]

2. Yep. That sums up the problem. It's us.

[lumberjack_jeff]

7. No. With all due respect, I don't think it is.

Throughout US society, there's an expectation that abstract considerations such as ethics and macroeconomics influence "the invisible hand" of commerce. They don't.

Businesses will only hire as many people as they need, at the lowest price the labor pool will support, to fulfill orders for their products.
Consumers will buy the least expensive perceived satisfactory product from the cheapest retailer.

It is the job of government to inject big picture policy into the economy. If not enough people are working, government should hire them. If pay is too low, raise the minimum wage. If the market is being flooded with substandard/subsidized products, impose tariffs. If retailers are exploiting government and the workers to keep prices cheap, tax 'em.

[Fumesucker]

11. Retailers don't exploit to keep prices cheap..

They exploit to maximize profit.

[Booster]

26. And with all due respect, do you really think ANY of what you

suggest in your last sentence has a chance in Hell under the current political climate? Hell, we can't even get them to END tax cuts for the rich; we're not even trying to raise their taxes where they've never been before. They were doing very well before Bush's tax cuts.

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. Then we're fucked.

The fact that it's difficult politically doesn't make it less right.

It's amazing what becomes politically possible when the torches and pitchforks come out.

Eventually economic populism will become economic unrest. Better to deal with the situation now.

[Booster]

34. Yes, we're fucked. Where have you been? Short of threatening

people in Congress with their very lives, what are we supposed to do? Right now there's enough Dems in Wash DC to get some things done but they don't have the heart for it, and they may have already been threatened with their lives by the Teabaggers. They ALL seem to be severely afraid of them. They (Congress) are really just looking out for themselves and working on their next election campaign; the rest of us be damned. Yes, we're fucked.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. He's really nailed it...

I want the lowest price...no matter how much it costs...

And that lowest price does cost us. Maybe not immediately, out of pocket...

The book "Cheap" goes into this in great, and fascinating detail.

On edit: It's by Ellen Ruppel Shell.

[Blue_Tires]

6. kick

[Frustratedlady]

9. I'm not unemployed, but I've always tried to buy USA. It's darned near impossible.

Granted, there are a few stores that are all USA products, but there aren't that many products to begin with. Try it. You'll be amazed at how few items you can find. I'm talking about clothes, household goods, decor, etc.

[gemdem]

22. Do you or anyone else know about this site?

http://www.ibuyusmade.com/home/

I'm trying to find ways to get away from foreign-made goods and support US jobs. I found this site. Haven't checked it out thoroughly yet, but would appreciate if anyone else looked into or used it.

I'm not an isolationist, but the way this country has given away the store (and everything in it -- products and jobs) has been nothing short of amazing. I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to wanting to pay less, but too often I've found that a "bargain" is a shoddily made product (from overseas) that in retrospect wasn't worth the low price paid. This has led to frustration that is caused me to rethink how and what I buy. Do I have to accept that "everything" is foreign-made and/or shoddy? No.

There is no guarantee that US-made goods found on this or any other site will be better than what I find in the department stores. Still, it's an alternative to the current model, and may in some small way help someone here keep a job.

I'm looking for options folks. Can anyone help?

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I am sorry but he missed this by a mile

trade policies led to this...

[WillyT]

24. K & R !!!

:kick:

[treestar]

27. Heck that's why this is happening

It still amazes me that the labor cost in China is that low, that the transportation cost doesn't more then defeat it. China is so damn far away. Why not Mexico? Why China? One of the big mysteries as far as I'm concerned.