If Obama backs down in the face of this Hoffa thing, I am going to lose my fucking mind.

[WilliamPitt]

In addressing the crowd before Obama’s appearance, Hoffa said there has been a war on workers. “And you see it everywhere, it is the tea party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They’ve got a war, they got a war with us and there’s only going to be one winner. It’s going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We’re going to win that war.”

Hoffa added: “President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. Let’s take these son of a b----- out and give America back to an America where we belong.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/tea-party-calls-on-obama-to-rebuke-union-chief/2011/09/05/gIQAsSON5J_story.html?hpid=z3

The Tea Party, and by that I mean the GOP, is demanding an apology from Obama over these comments.

Hoffa was 100% correct in everything he said, down to the last word.

If an apology is issued, I'm going to be sick. An apology will perfectly encapsulate everything wrong about this administration's approach to the "loyal" opposition.

[highplainsdem]

1. I agree.

[roguevalley]

86. I agree. If he does he's beyond the pale. say what you will about

a hoffa, they don't lack balls.

[meegbear]

2. Holy doctored quote Batman!

Right-wing bloggers misled by dishonest Fox News video editing are attacking Teamsters President James Hoffa for supposedly urging violence against Tea Party activists during a Labor Day speech. Conservatives are also attacking President Obama, who appeared at the event, for "sanctioning violence against fellow Americans" by failing to denounce Hoffa. But fuller context included in other Fox segments makes clear that Hoffa wasn't calling for violence but was actually urging the crowd to vote out Republican members of Congress.

During the segment that the bloggers have latched onto, Fox edited out the bolded portion of Hoffa's comments:

HOFFA: Everybody here's got to vote. If we go back and keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a bitches out and give America back to America where we belong! Thank you very much!


<snip>

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201109050003

[Deep13]

125. Like they're in any position to complain. nt

[ooglymoogly]

222. +1 nt

[NNN0LHI]

3. He already has released a statement that he has no comment on the matter

I wouldn't be expecting any apology.

Don

[dgibby]

20. He who? Hoffa or Obama?

I hope they both stand their ground. Tea Party can dish it out, but squeal like stuck pigs when they have to take it, even if they're making it up.

[NNN0LHI]

21. President Obama had no comment

[dgibby]

28. Thanks! n/t

[ooglymoogly]

223. Except that he did

but it was through Carney...Quote:

Carney said, “Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself. He speaks for the labor movement, AFL-CIO. The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president.”

[totodeinhere]

161. That's better than an apology, but I would have hoped for a statement of

actual support for Hoffa's comments rather than a terse no comment. But maybe that's too much to expect. As President he can't appear to be divisive I guess.

[eridani]

179. Best that can be expected, IMO

Very grateful for the absence of an apology.

[peace frog]

4. Hunt up the honey bucket

You're gonna need it.

[elocs]

5. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

Prepare to be disappointed. If not, you can be pleasantly surprised.

[Brickbat]

6. Whether he does or not, the fact that people are demanding it and others can imagine him doing it

should be a huge wake-up call for those who are fond of encouraging others to chill the fuck out. The system is broken and none -- NONE -- of the players want to fix it.

[sufrommich]

36. In other words, you're going to be outraged no matter what. nt

[MADem]

74. +1 nt

[RadiationTherapy]

7. Bullshit. That was a dumb thing to say.

That is a dog whistle just as it would be from Palin's mouth. Whether it was intentional or not, one does not need be a PHD in communication to understand the connotation and context of those words. A hell of a dumb thing to say in our nation-on-the-edge.

[mazzarro]

19. Please explain!

Not using the Faux Noise's "cut-and-paste" tape, the full statement is as follows:

“Everybody here has a vote,” Hoffa said Monday. “If we go back and we keep the eye on the prize. Let’s take these sons of bitches out and give America back to America where we belong.”

Kindly explain the dumbness in this.

[RadiationTherapy]

39. "let's take these son of a bitches out"

That's the dumb part. I'm not wasting time parsing the violent imagery if you don't want to see it. To take someone out is to eliminate them and, while I understand the voting/political context, the dialogue in this nation is too volatile - too close to a hot war - for this bullshit.

[onpatrol98]

59. +1

Yeah...that was a pretty dumb statement. If we want (and hey on DU we may not), but if we want the President to have the high ground and not sound like a hypocrite when Republicans say stupid things like this...we can't pretend it's not stupid when someone like Hoffa does it. There is nothing wrong with consistency. That was a bone headed thing to say. We've almost melted DU down several times over when a Republican makes statements like these. I don't want him to apologize...he didn't make the statement. But, the next time a Republican says something stupid, the President will look like a hypocrite if he opens his mouth to condemn it.

I'm just sorry. It's the truth. And, down deep somewhere, we know it is. That's why I was actually impressed when NOW defended Palin or Bachmann after some inappropriate sexist comment. It's not about being politically correct. Words have consequences. If we care about those consequences, we can't play favorites.

[whathehell]

64. Tom Coburn just talked about "bringing a gun to congress"..Sharon Angle

threatened "2nd Amendment remedies".

The Republican "opposition" to Gabbie Giffords in Arizona, is auctioning

off a Glock, the gun she was shot with, to fundraise

Spare me the double standard.

[onpatrol98]

67. Actually, I would be arguing for the removal of double standards

Actually, I would be arguing for a removal of the double standard by all parties involved. So, we should agree.

Gun violence and many other forms of violence are a very real part of reality for many. If the implication of your comment is that others get to do it, so why can't we...I'm simply not impressed. Or, if the implication is...yeah, but Republicans are much worse with their comments. I think that's a given.

I have been guilty of saying many things that I now regret. I simply say no one should indulge in it. I think Republicans are wrong when they do it. I think Democrats are wrong when we do it. I have no desire to set up some false equivalency test to measure whose comments are more dangerous. I feel relatively at peace simply acknowledging that as an adult I recognize that Hoffa's comments were inappropriate in a political culture where we are "supposedly" trying for a higher standard since the horrible attack on Ms. Gifford.

If we're convinced only Republicans such as Tom Coburn make stupid, inciting comments, let's help that become the reality without having You Tube moments of our own.

To my mind, this is a win win. We get to 1) bring attention to the stupid comments made by Republicans; 2) perhaps provide a safer environment for own constituency; and 3) be able to say with a straight face that Democrats do not condone such behavior.

Again...I can't find any problems or reasons to disagree with my comment.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

70. Just where do you get off coming here and being reasonable?

;)

[whathehell]

82. Actually, I don't much care if you are "impressed" or not.

Clearly, Hoffa's comments were taken out of context.

Had they run the full clip, his true meaning would have been understood.

It would have been better, obviously, if Hoffa had said what he

meant, which was "vote them out"
.
but I'm not sweating this one.

You can, if you'd like.:shrug:

[onpatrol98]

83. No Sweat...

I'm feeling all...peaceful. I wonder if my husband slipped something in my coffee.

[russspeakeasy]

207. I feel the same way....no sweating here...as a matter of fact,

I'm glad Hoffa said it...A lot of us are thinking it, but don't have a pulpit.:evilgrin:

[whathehell]

245. Damn straight!..n/t

[ooglymoogly]

224. Ooooh that's ever so sweet, so very sweet, my my, I just thought I'd die.

Dare I say it? yes, yes, I think I will: It's sugary sweet and dripping with honey and topped with honey cherries and rolled in sugar again.

Give yourself a great big slobbery kiss.

[Marnie]

134. Voting is a double standard?

To what?

[whathehell]

246. Um, no..

condemning harsh talk from dems but not from repubs is.

[sulphurdunn]

122. It doesn't matter if he said

it or not. It doesn't matter whether he should have said it or not. What matters, and all that matters, is that no one apologize for it publicly to anyone for any reason.

[reACTIONary]

175. The guy's a teamster...

... he's supposed to talk tough and shit.

[MadLinguist]

230. yeah, god damn it!

He's not going to stand up and say "Let's show those fellas a thing or two"
He didn't say "men go get your bats" or "kill the fuckers". He alluded to a fight. Mild mannered pundits say things like "so and so is in the political fight of so&so's life". It really seems to me to be the equivalent, given Hoffa's role and audience. my 2 cents

[creeksneakers2]

213. Republicans say things like that all the time

Listen to talk radio for a day and start counting. Nobody in the mainstream media says a word about it either. Here's a snippet from Rush Limbaugh while discussing Hoffa's comments:


"RUSH: These are the people that are authoring all the anti-bully legislation. These are the people that are responsible for all the anti-bullying stuff in school, and who are they? What are they but a bunch of bullies themselves. Proudly so. They applaud themselves for their bullying-like tactics. Excellent point out there."

I think its time we start calling Republicans out for there words and I'd like Obama to join. Obama just let Rick Perry off the hook for some outrageous remarks. That disappointed me.


Nothing is going to change by trying to be consistent. The right and the far left are obsessed with finding statements from anybody they can connect to Obama that they can twist into examples for their persecution fantasies. The best that can be done is to fight back against the GOP, starting with the statements they make daily on talk radio.

[JuniperLea]

78. OFFS

Way to pump up the RW talking points... Jesus... where the fuck did I wake up today?

[emilyg]

80. Just imagine how DU would

react if a Republican had said it.

[Amimnoch]

81. I'm so glad you said this! I was feeling alone in having this position.

I very much dislike the way pubs/teabaggers handle themselves.

I totally support organized labor.

I agree 100% with the Sentiment of Mr. Hoffa.

BUT, this is the same kind of hot rhetoric that got Mrs. Giffords shot, and has the potential to kill other people.

I agree that most people will understand these statements in the correct context in which they were presented, but all it takes is one person to read into it the wrong way, and go on a killing rampage. It would NOT be beneficial to us (liberals, progressives, or supporters of organized labor) if someone who is already on the brink of going on a spree actually does now, and his activities can be traced back to listening to this speech. We all KNOW that the pukes wouldn't hesitate to throw it in our faces.

Anger doesn't garner support, and often reduces it.

Hot-headed rhetoric shouldn't be tolerated from the pubs, and it shouldn't be tolerated from us.

[StarsInHerHair]

140. ok, please point out to me those on the Left who will become violent because of his words

[Courtesy Flush]

85. Didn't you see the un-edited quote?

He clearly said "take them out" as in VOTE them out. He prefaced it with "we've got to vote."

Don't fall for this RW smokescreen.

[nxylas]

242. Well, then he should have said "vote them out"

He couldn't possibly have been unaware that his words could be misconstrued, surely.

[Marnie]

132. But you have done exactly what Fox did.

HOffa is talking about voting.

[RadiationTherapy]

133. And who could have EVER predicted he'd get soundbitten?!

Hyukhyukhyuk! How's it all work!??

[kenfrequed]

211. Awesome

We should sanitize and milquetoasterate every word that comes out of any person that even has an attachment to the democratic party to assure that they can never be contorted or twisted or creatively edited by fux friggin news! Yeah. Brilliant.

Say only positive pithy vauge things that cannot offend or attack anyone in any way. Sounds like a wonderful recipe for getting people fired up...

[RadiationTherapy]

214. That's ridiculous. Violence implies what about a person?

We can win without "takin out" our "enemies".

[kenfrequed]

234. yup...

Good that you use the fox news edits so effectively. I'm sorry but there is far too much 'concern' in your post.

[DissedByBush]

164. Also not a good thing to say after the Giffords shooting

When we were calling for and end to violent rhetoric, to more "civil discourse."

Looks hypocritical.

Watch some idiot take a pot shot at the next Tea Party rally because he's simply batshit insane.

But the Repubs will have this to hold over us.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

54. So long as we can get all of Fox's viewership to read DU or MM we'll be OK

[Honeycombe8]

169. "Take them out" is common mafia terminology for killing someone, isn't it? I think...

that's the connotation here by the rightwingnuts, since Hoffa is a name associated with the mafia in years past.

Just guessing that's where that came from.

But for you and me, it's just normal terminology. Take 'em out! Vote 'em out! Rip 'em up! Kick 'em out! All of that just means get rid of 'em and replace 'em with Democrats.

[reACTIONary]

177. It's Mafia and it's military...

... but it's very common to use martial illusions in electioneering. Elections are sublimated warfare. The martial terminology actually helps to diffuse and redirect the emotions into a positive process.

[RadiationTherapy]

188. I think you mean 'allusion', but I am not responding for that.

I am very interested in your last sentence. Is this supported somewhere? I am very interested in the interaction between words and actions. Thanks.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. What specifically do you see wrong with this:

"Everybody here's got to vote. If we go back and keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a bitches out and give America back to America where we belong! Thank you very much!"

A vote can take those bastards out of office. That's called democracy. How is that a problem? Focus on an electoral victory is 'dumb' in what way? Be specific. If it does not take a PHD to understand it, you should be able to clearly express your view on the statement in exacting language. Can't wait.

[RadiationTherapy]

40. "let's take these son of a bitches out"

That is a phrase with violent undertones. You can read more above if you are interested.

[PassingFair]

98. He's Jimmy. Fucking. Hoffa.

Obama should just tsk tsk him and then
GET BEHIND LABOR.

[Enthusiast]

103. Exactly!

But Obama, you know the President that will submit to an interview with Bill O'Rilly, but not Rachel Maddow, will not get behind labor. George H. W. Bush wouldn't see it as prudent.

[ChiciB1]

153. Grow Up! They've Been Talking About Taking People Out For Quite Some

time! Shall we now call YOU Obama? Turn the other cheek, kiss some ASS? THEY have been at it for far too long and I myself am soooooooooooooo glad to hear someone FIGHT BACK!

They'll get over it... OR NOT! I don't really care. They've been so evil for so long, it serves them right. And generally I'm very careful to try and "kill 'em with kindness" but now my cynicism has grown by leaps and bounds! Time for a Green Light and LET'S GO!

I want to SHOW THEM, we have a SPINE!

[RadiationTherapy]

156. Right, because violent equals tough!

BZZZZZZZT.

[former9thward]

62. That is not the quote in the OP. Who is correct?

[Courtesy Flush]

87. Link

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201109050003

One of the videos shows the full quote, which Fox aired later.

Hoffa said: "Everybody here's got to vote. If we go back and keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a bitches out and give America back to America where we belong! Thank you very much!"

[former9thward]

90. On a radio news report I heard him say the one in the OP

Which is completely different than the one you are giving.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. Dog whistle -

coded language understood by only select listeners who know the true intent of a message is different from that heard by the general public.

Where's the 'dog whistle' there? What is the select group being addressed, other than the general audience?

Do you understand the words you use?

[nashville_brook]

25. obviously RT has confused full-throated liberal advocacy with dog-whistle politics -- so seldom

do we see said "full-throated liberal advocacy" that it's understandable how one might become confused. it's disorienting...i'm feeling a bit of vertigo myself.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. When asked for specifics, the talking point people melt away

like a banana split on a summer's day.

[RadiationTherapy]

44. Or maybe they are getting their kid off to school.

One or the other.

[RadiationTherapy]

43. There is nothing "liberal" about "let's take these son of a bitches out"

Any idiot can stitch those angry, violent words together. If you want violence, then you got some words that resonate with you.

[StarsInHerHair]

142. then you know NOTHING of Labor Rights & the history of practically EVERY

PROGRESSIVE GAIN MADE IN THIS NATION

[RadiationTherapy]

149. Riiiiiiight.

Jeepers! Tell me more, Wally!

Violence grafted on to election politics - that has what to do with labor violence from the beginning of last century?

[StarsInHerHair]

194. read this-GO AHEAD TRY TO REBUT IT

13 January 1874 (United States)
The original Tompkins Square Riot. As unemployed workers demonstrated in New York City's Tompkins Square Park, a detachment of mounted police charged into the crowd, beating men, women and children indiscriminately with billy clubs and leaving hundreds of casualties in their wake.

Commented Abram Duryee, the Commissioner of Police: "It was the most glorious sight I ever saw..."

1 May 1886 (United States)
Bay View Tragedy -- About 2,000 Polish workers walked off their jobs and gathered at St. Stanislaus Church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, angrily denouncing the ten hour workday. The protesters marched through the city, calling on other workers to join them. All but one factory was closed down as sixteen thousand protesters gathered at Rolling Mills. Wisconsin Governor Jeremiah Rusk called the state militia. The militia camped out at the mill while workers slept in nearby fields. On the morning of May 5th, as protesters chanted for the eight-hour workday, General Treaumer ordered his men to shoot into the crowd, some of whom were carrying sticks, bricks, and scythes, leaving seven dead at the scene, including a child.<2><3>

6 July 1892 (United States)
Homestead Strike -- Pinkerton Guards, trying to pave the way for the introduction of scabs, opened fire on striking Carnegie mill steel-workers in Homestead, Pennsylvania. In the ensuing battle, three Pinkertons surrendered; then, unarmed, they were set upon and beaten by a mob of townspeople, most of them women. Seven guards and eleven strikers and spectators were shot to death.<4[br />
January–March 1912 (United States)
Lawrence textile strike in Lawrence, Massachusetts, often known as the "Bread and Roses" strike. Dozens of different immigrant communities united under the leadership of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) in a largely successful strike led to a large extent by women. The strike is credited with inventing the moving picket line, a tactic devised to keep strikers from being arrested for loitering.

It also adopted a tactic used before in Europe, but never in the United States, of sending children to sympathizers in other cities when they could not be cared for by strike funds. On 24 February, women attempting to put their children on a train out of town were beaten by police, shocking the nation.<4><6[br />
20 April 1914 (United States)
The "Ludlow Massacre." In an attempt to persuade strikers at Colorado's Ludlow Mine Field to return to work, company "guards," engaged by John D. Rockefeller, Jr. and other mine operators and sworn into the State Militia just for the occasion, attacked a union tent camp with machine guns, then set it afire. Five men, two women and 12 children died as a result.<4><5[br />
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_labor_issues_and_events

[RadiationTherapy]

218. Rebut what? Are you ready to take it to that level?

What is your point? I am well aware of labor history. I did not say violence hasn't happened in labor history; I am denouncing violent imagery that I am more worried about resembling 1864 - citizen vs. citizen. There is not near enough unity among workers right now for our present to resemble your examples. Conservative workers hate liberal workers. That common ground is not there. I assert that Hoffa's comments bring us closer to civil war and not a labor uprising. Jeez.

[RadiationTherapy]

42. "let's take these son of a bitches out"

Unfortunately it will end up in the wrong audience. Hoffa meant voters, conservatives will hear a threat against them and the nation teeters further on the verge of violence. I reject violent imagery.

[RaleighNCDUer]

55. Conservatives only hear what they want to hear anyway -

what WE need to hear is somebody standing up for US.

Just because YOU have some violence issues, that doesn't mean that what Hoffa said has anything to do with 'violent imagery'. Perhaps you need to look at your own reaction, rather than castigate your allies.

[SusanaMontana41]

141. + a trillion. nt

[ChiciB1]

154. But THEY Also Know If THEY Make Enough Of A Stink "Our Man" Just Might

BACK DOWN! This is the reason they are calling him out and if he keeps giving them what THEY want, IMO he loses and WE lose!

[Telly Savalas]

95. The mendacious dipshits that run 24 hour news networks will turn "I want oatmeal for breakfast"

into a menacing declaration of evil intent if they feel like it.

I too reject violent imagery, but Hoffa's remarks can only be construed as such by conservatives with a victim complex and their enablers. The demands for an apology, especially a Presidential apology, are petty, childish, and stupid. They demonstrate the right-wing's obsession with turning every minor little item into some stupid political game.

[sabrina 1]

99. Conservatives know exactly whart he meant but are pretending

like spoiled children, that he did not say what he said. And giving in to their temper tantrums is not an option. If they can't take tough talk from Unions, then they should not have started a war with them.

They should be ignored. I can't believe anyone is even giving their nonsense any attention. It must be a slow news day, no-one dying in any of our wars, no one losing their homes, their jobs or anything of importance going on.

No, we must cater to the traitors who are being paid by Global and National Multi Corps to 'take out' America's middle class who are pretending to be offended because NOW they are finally realizing that when you start a war with workers, it isn't all going to go your way. :eyes:

[StarsInHerHair]

137. so throw the bums out is violent rhetoric? are you also complaining about Palin's

rhetoric, & other GOP/TP rhetoric?

[RadiationTherapy]

143. Yes, I am. I am very concerned about the potential for civil war in theis country

and the rhetoric is shrill all round.

[Honeycombe8]

170. I hear ya. But what the media ISN'T saying is...it's usually rightwingers who go around shooting ..

people. It's not usually liberals.

It's not like an NRA member who puts names of congress people on his/her website, and then on top of the names puts shotgun crosshairs, while knowing that followers of the NRA member are gun advocates, and some are nuts who shoot people.

Joe Scarborough was trying to compare the two things as the same. They're not the same.

[RadiationTherapy]

172. I am not saying the two are the same.

As a matter of fact, I am more concerned about Hoffa's remarks' effect on conservatives than on liberals as far as violent acting-out.

[w0nderer]

247. so

in effect their violent acting out has already managed to intimidate some people to the point where they recommend giving up freedom of speech using 'verbal violent imagery' to protect against more violence against themselves or their group?

is that a relatively fair summation?

[WillyT]

58. Yeah... Maybe A Sternly Worded Letter In Their Personnel Files Would Do The Trick

BTW - It is customary for the President's allies to say things that the President would like to say, but cannot.

I doubt this President would have chosen those words, but I'm glad Hoffa did... I'm waiting for the fight to begin in earnest.

And see that word "fight"... violent there too...

Bring it on!!!

:evilfrown:

[w0nderer]

190. speech

on labor day, a labor leader, to workers

making a speech....(the politically correct civilized non offensive milquetoast version)

really, we should you know perhaps, considering the circumstances without being unnecessarily partisan or offensive, possibly, as an idea we could you know, kinda i guess vote, or something, to possibly, if it wouldn't hurt their feelings, i mean we could potentially actually vote or express our concern, not against them as such, more of expressing concern or vote a little less for them so that they would not be in office as much as previously unless that would be too harsh.

unless it offends someone or disturbs someone or in any other way is not acceptable i'd like, well actually not like but partially like, more, feel neutral towards, yes neutral towards presenting the president, well possibly the president, of the united states, well not that united, since many people don't like us, but we love them in a fuzzy group hug kind of way anyway, on this day, so give him a big, but not too big, because that would hurt the other speakers' feelings, welcome.

:sarcasm:

as for me, i almost fell asleep writing it
i can't imagine the poor worker listening to it

[kctim]

60. Aw, come on

You know it's "different" when the side you support does it.

[StarsInHerHair]

136. you're WAY OFF-that was an FDR thing, a Truman way of putting it

FINALLY!

[OwnedByFerrets]

162. Yeah, democrats/progressives have such a strong record

of violence against those we disagree with.:eyes: FAIL. I love it when OUR guys say what needs to be said.

[ooglymoogly]

174. Bullshit

Let me spell that out for you B-0-0-0-L C-H-E-E-T. Not to be too parcy but only a phony baloney idiot would make of that perfectly appropriate comment, a dog whistle. But then clearly you have been wounded to the quick by that comment. His meaning is clear, we need to take these loons out of the government. So carry on with the phony outrage.

[RadiationTherapy]

187. I am not outraged, nor do I feel the need to take a phony position of authority

by "giving permission" to someone to "carry on." I simply pointed out that what he says has violent imagery, it provides counterproductive fodder for the media, and there are a million other inspirational ways to say it. I do not relate to the "violence = toughness" paradigm and I call bullshit that it was a "normal" thing to say. It is abnormal, as is obvious by this thread.

[ooglymoogly]

197. There are fighters on this board who are fed up with capitulation at

every affront. They (and I) are tired of a president who talks the FDR talk but walks a crooked walk. There are Pollyannas and goody two shoes on this board who wear rose colored glasses, who constantly make excuses and shy away from anything remotely resembling a confrontation.

It is time to uphold the principals of the Democratic party that many died for.

They want a fight so lets give it to them...Trumka threw out the first punch and we owe him for that and let the outraged thugs do what they will with it. My crawling apologies for the violent imagery, to the delicate, pearl clutching minds of some, on this board.

[RadiationTherapy]

220. You can't conceive of confrontational language that is absent of violence?

That is surprising to me. You seem to be well spoken.

And "pearl-clutching?" Really? My words haven't been rather even and carefully chosen? I am in such a state of pollyanna shock that I have lost my ability to distinguish confrontation from violence?

[ooglymoogly]

228. There is violence and there are metaphors that speak of things where no violence

is even suggested....words like fight as at a highschool football match wherein the cheerleaders shout the violent language of fight, fight, fight for example. ...Whereupon the spectators all pull out guns and shoot each other....for cripes sake get real.

[Ineeda]

8. Why would anyone expect an apology

for anything said by someone who is not a part of the administration? I can't imagine an apology would be forthcoming.

[polmaven]

33. Because

the statement was made when Hoffa was introducing the president on stage. So, you see, it was obviously officially endorsed by the president...

Of course, I do think the president should fully endorse the statement that was actually made... the voters should take the tea party out of office with our votes!

[Number23]

144. Exactly. Seems like something else to be outraged over

Nobody's even seriously talking about an apology. Except on DU. :eyes:

[fasttense]

9. The RepubliCONS asks for an apology every time Obama sneezes.

I think the GOP believes they can get Obama to criticize his base so that his base will abandon him.

The next thing you know they will ask Obama to apologize for being born.

[potone]

13. They already have.

He wasn't born in the right country, don't you know? :crazy:

[LaurenG]

10. Obama didn't say it so it's not for him to apologize

and I'm with you, he'd better not.

[Broderick]

11. REAL QUOTE

“Everybody here has a vote,” Hoffa said Monday. “If we go back and we keep the eye on the prize. Let’s take these sons of bitches out and give America back to America where we belong.”

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nevergiveup]

14. When pressed he will probably say

something to the effect that he wouldn't have used those words. One way or the other it won't be a big deal except on the blogs.

[Buns_of_Fire]

37. With that, I would have to agree. I wouldn't have called them "sons of bitches."

I would have called them something MUCH more insulting.

[catbyte]

15. Me too.

[Proud Public Servant]

16. Negotiations have already begun

Obama has pre-emptively opened with an offer of an apology and, though no one asked for it, a unilateral Democratic Party ban on union campaign contributions. Tea Partiers have refused, and are said to be holding out for Congressional appointments for life and a re-introduction of serfdom in the trucking industry. "We're not actually that far apart," said Jay Carney in a hastily-called press conference, "and we believe there's middle ground on which we can meet."

[Sheepshank]

35. Obama woke up this morning and pe-emptively reversed everything he signed to date. *sarcasm*

you statement is inane

[JohnnyRingo]

159. Though I think this speculation is pure neurotic hand wringing....

That's pretty god damn funny.
I laughed aloud as I read it. thanx.

[demgrrrll]

163. that isnt funny at all.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

237. Welcome to DU!

While others might not have seen the humor in your statement, it gave me a chuckle to start the day.

The worst part is that based on past performance, your tongue-in-cheek hypothesis stands a good chance of being the actual response.

So many freaking weak attempts to show a real unity with organized labor don't really instill a lot of confidence in how our President will handle this. Huge sigh..........

What happened to those comfortable shoes and picket signs that CANDIDATE Obama mentioned?

[tomg]

240. Thanks for the laugh. I am glad

and surprised that President Obama gave a simple "no comment." But your scenario is a spot on satire. You got to my deepest fears and I found myself laughing my ass off.

[jaxx]

17. Really?

Why worry about this when the left gave Trumka thumbs up for his assy statement in August.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. Funny how the ardents wailed and weeped over Labor comments

and even after that rally yesterday they still keep up the whining and crying. Where was the rally organized by the ardents? Is it not pleasing to hear someone stand up to the Republicans with strong language, or do you miss the bipartisan lexicon of coddling and compromise with them? I'd say those so upset by Trumka's comments are free to make their own rallies, open up their own forceful renunciations of the Republicans, but that's going to be hard to do for the 'moderate centrists' who are at least as close to Republicans as they are to labor people like me.
Is the internet ardent group DOING anything? Labor is. The whole conversation has changed. And that was a nice rally yesterday, the President looked better than he has in many weeks. On a stage given to him by labor. I notice that he is not weeping and wailing but instead he is showing up and speaking out. He seemed pleased with the crowd yesterday. Say what you will about Obama, he recognizes politics when he sees it, something his most ardent supporters fail to see every time.
Who would you prefer? Critical people who give you tons of support and huge crowds or people who always praise, constantly to the point of doing nothing else, presenting no podium, no crowds, no context, no chorus, no nothing but praise? I say look at the 2010 elections, and see how all the ardent supporters did not bother to support when it counted. Where were they? Posting praise and shouting at those who are actually doing something. And of course, claiming it is all 'for Obama'.

[disillusioned73]

47. Well said..

:applause:

[jaxx]

71. Well you missed the boat all the way around.

Funny that the very same Trumka couldn't say enough when the President was in the house, isn't it? Funnier yet is that you are telling the supporters of the President to go make their own rallies.....bub, you saw one yesterday. Who do you think you are anyway? Don't you dare try to put out there that the supporters are nothing.
I have to laugh when the angst gets caught in the pissing contest. You can take your 'ardent supporters' whine and figure out we are the ones who showed up to vote in 2010, not the disenchanteds. We're not the ones who stayed home or had lost their love of the Democratic Party and started tossing around third parties and primaries. You are not going to get by with crap like that. Your post was the proverbial epic fail.

[TheKentuckian]

123. Your ardent vote didn't count any more than my disenchanted one.

Many of us also gave time an money.

What you need to do is to stop pretending the Turd Way is a stand up crowd and actually look at who didn't show up to the polls because you will find it was the Obama wave voters that didn't make it or even switched sides and that capitulation to the Reich wing not only failed to attract independent voters but apparently ran them off in droves.

[jaxx]

139. Hey I just go by what was said here in the Democratic capitol of the country.

If people didn't stay home they shouldn't be acting like they did. If they didn't sit on their time and their money they should say so. That isn't how it was and we all know it. It has been one long 'I'm gonna do nothing' And now we get it again for 2012. I doubt many indies hang out here.

[bluestate10]

160. Indies don't hang out here. I talked to an Indie today.

What I heard from the person's mouth really, really encouraged me. Looks like democrats have that Indie in our column. I have given up wasting time convincing the Obama and democrat haters that gather in DU at certain levels. There is no reason for me to waste time on DU frothers, democratic leaning Indies and even the few moderate republicans that are shitting their undies at their choices are more promising and will show up at polls to vote.

[jaxx]

166. Indies would be scared away here, the anti-Obama is

not conductive to bringing in voters. Glad to hear they are paying attention to the truth that is out there because we really need to win in 2012.

[bluestate10]

157. Yes, you're right. But the Ardents, as you insultingly call us.

Did not sit naked on our thumbs while teabagger bastards were ushered into office, we were out fighting our ass off. I personally would rather see people of your ilk leave the democratic party, the party can then get democratic leaning independents back, a group that is saner and more proactive.

[TheKentuckian]

248. Proactive, my ass. I haven't seen a "pragmatic progressive" or a "centrist" working a campaign ever

Not even for like minded candidates. Who was fighting their asses off are the same folks who have been in the trenches for decades that you spit on and blame for the failures of the halfassed Republicans you think the moon is hung on.

Who sat home are the same folks that always sit home during mid-terms aka young people, the politically disengaged, and a fair chunk of the minority vote. Add in your "centrists" that flipped back (for no sane reason seeing that what passed was more conservative than what they voted for and you have a pretty complete picture.

Did some disenchanted liberals say fuck it? I'm sure some did but most found a clothespin for their chapped noses and stuck with it, just like I did. Our turn out was good and we elected Democrats in my district and did all we could for Conway (who fucked himself with silly aquabuddah commercials and dumber drug warrior nonsense), so go puff up at someone else.

[ooglymoogly]

176. Well I went out and voted as I am guessing everyone on this board did

You and your tag team are off base.

[jaxx]

181. Then they should admit it.

I have no tag team, but thanks for giving me that power.

[ooglymoogly]

186. Is this a papers please!, moment?

Well at least you are consistent and explains why you are so gung ho on the democratic principals sellout.

[jaxx]

202. I don't want your papers, why would you offer them?

The sell out is a myth.

[Doctor_J]

72. Amen bnw

a major reason we continue to be kicked around by the Repukes is the knee-jerk hand-wringing by the PC crowd who try to make sure no one is offended by any remarks. The president got his ass kicked in November because of HIS straddling and appeasing. If everyone who voted for the president in 2008 talked like Trumka, the enemies of America like the teabaggers would start to fear us a little, which would be a very good thing.

[Enthusiast]

107. Goddamn good post!

Fuck the Teahaddists!

[WillyT]

126. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

:bounce:

:hi:

:kick:

[ooglymoogly]

209. +1 nt

[WI_DEM]

18. I agree. It isn't up to Obama to apologize for his remark.

and it's just another manufactured media controversy.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

23. I just wish Hoffa had said "kick" or even "get" instead of "take."

"Kick" would have sounded plenty angry and forceful but to "take" someone out connotes more violence, even killing. The mob "takes out a squealer." The military "takes out a sniper's nest" or "takes out an insurgent headquarters."

I also wish Hoffa had said "scum-sucking, thieving, son of a bitches" as it would be more accurate. }(

[Occulus]

26. He used 'vote' in the same place.

Not buying it.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

29. True, but that's not helping much with the soundbites.

[Occulus]

84. Then try scolding the right people

instead of the ones they're misquoting.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

89. I'm not scolding. I just don't see why we should hand them these soundbites on a silver platter.

[Occulus]

135. There you go again. n/t

[StarsInHerHair]

146. the right will ALWAYS twist EVERYTHING said by anyone even remotely Left

so let them foam at the mouth, don't appease them-they trumpet that as their victory over the Left.

[Enthusiast]

111. PLUS ONE!.......nt

[Claudia Jones]

128. nothing ever will

Nothing will ever "help much with the soundbites."

Much of the strength of the right wing propaganda comes from the inordinate fear and cowardice that so many Democrats display in response to it.

[Raksha]

173. That is SO true!!!

Re "Much of the strength of the right wing propaganda comes from the inordinate fear and cowardice that so many Democrats display in response to it."

[Common Sense Party]

57. He also used 'army' in the same speech.

Which adds to the violent inference.

“President Obama, this is your army,” Hoffa concluded to applause, his voice raising to a shout. “We are ready to march. Let’s take these sons of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong,” he said, stepping back from the lectern where President Obama would speak less than an hour later.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/09/hoffa-they-declared-war-on-us/

[durablend]

30. Sorry, they'd throw a fit over 'kick' too

Since that's meant to be a violent act (when one kicks another person).

I really think we should stop clutching our pearls every time FauxNoise makes something up out of nothing. Because that's what they do!

[Gidney N Cloyd]

49. Sure they might also throw a fit over "kick" but they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

...So to speak.

It's OK to be both tough and smart and the tough-smart thing would be to stop just short of using an expression that connotes killing.

[RadiationTherapy]

45. It was chosen for its violent imagery.

In America, that's how you let people know you are SUPERSERIOUS about something. Violent imagery.

[Enthusiast]

110. I agree. But anything and I mean 'anything' said

in criticism of the Teabaggers is better than no criticism at all.

[stuckinarut]

32. Yah, you are pushing the Fox-doctored version. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

34. You're setting yourself up for disappointment and a nervous breakdown.

Never make your mental health contingent on Barack Obama acting like a Democrat.

[KarenS]

121. HA!!!

too late for me

:rofl:

[Warpy]

38. Why the fuck should Obama be called on to apologize?

He's not the one who told them the truth. Hoffa is.

Good for Hoffa.

[Ikonoklast]

41. Pre-emptive gassiness over something that won't happen.

But, you got the outrage out there.

Good for you.

[emulatorloo]

46. Seems like you are trolling for "outrage recs" to reach greatest page, Will

I am disappointed in you.

Usually your posts are much more substantive than this.

[WilliamPitt]

52. I'll try to do better

Cuz you're right, Obama has never folded like a wet napkin in the face of right-wing pressure before.

Shame on me.

Or something.

[Number23]

147. It's the new DU and all

Where would this place be without "outrage recs?"

[disillusioned73]

48. Fuck the tea party...

and it's mindless followers.. it's about freaking time "our side" start pushing.. no scratch the - shoving back!!

And if people that are supposedly on our side complain and align themselves with the right - well fuck them too!!

[Fumesucker]

50. Will, we hardly knew ye..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIUZbA1bxnE

:hi:

[KittyWampus]

51. Hoffa- the union guy who endorses drilling in the Arctic?

[Jakes Progress]

113. This is apropos of . . . . ? Oh. I see. Obfuscation. Not very good, but you tried.

[truebrit71]

53. I agree. Fuck the tea party and double fuck the gop....

...It was exactly what needed to be said and therefore I expect the apology by 5.00pm this afternoon...

:puke:

[bengalherder]

56. The phrase "Sons of Bitches"

Is unlikely to ruffle the feathers of people actually employed in labor industries.

Believe me we know far worse and will share at a drop of a hat.

Pearl-clutching is an elitist exercise.

[WillyT]

63. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!!

:bounce:

Well said...

:kick:

:hi:

[Loki]

65. Ah, excuse me but Dickhead Cheney

told Senator Patrick Leahy to "go fuck himself" if my memory serves me. I think we need to tell the republicans to just "shut the fuck up" just like their former VP.

[Gemini Cat]

68. "Pearl-clutching is an elitist exercise."

You nailed it perfectly.

[Lucian]

79. + a million

[w0nderer]

195. +1 n/t

[blogslut]

61. I see the AP is as guilty of quote doctoring as FOX

Why are you falling for it, Will?

[Waiting For Everyman]

66. It's time for Hoffa and Obama to "welcome their hatred" (as FDR said)

and attack the RW's deliberate lying about this instead of retracting one inch.

"Take them out of office" is obviously what was meant. It's time to shut down the RW's deliberate blatant lying to the public. And if the media gives this any credibility at all, they are just as guilty.

The liars about this are the ones who need to apologize. It's about time we stopped giving them a free pass on pumping out lies without any consequences to them.

[rhett o rick]

69. Let this be our battle cry: "“President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. Let’s take

these son of a b----- out and give America back to an America where we belong.”

[lillypaddle]

73. You realize, don't you

had Hoffa posted this comment on DU, it would have been deleted for being SEXIST. :rofl:

[mfcorey1]

75. Hoffa will simply need to say, "No one can apologize for me. My statement stands as I said it and I

do not apologize." That will take care of it.

[spanone]

76. i remember the teabaggers showing up at rallies brazenly carrying weapons.....

this is bullshit

[JuniperLea]

77. Jesus, Will...

When did you go all tabloidy on our asses?

The quote is wrong and out of context... and you've joined the "he's going to, he plans on, he wants to, he intends on..." crowd.

Wow... very disheartening.

[spooked911]

109. What?

I don't follow your logic at all.

[Hutzpa]

88. I absolutely agree with this sentiment. n/t

[woo me with science]

91. I am weary of the language police,

but I must say I find an apology over rhetoric to be a very odd last straw when this administration has been brazenly endorsing supply side economic policies in this shithole of an economy, trying to cut the social safety nets of the poor and elderly, and defending corrupt banks.

[fascisthunter]

105. .

[Recursion]

92. What would constitute "backing down"?

I'm not sure how O is even involved here.

[toddwv]

93. Please remove that redacted right-wing swill and replace it with the FULL excerpt!!!!!!!

We all fell for the right-wing propaganda machine. Let's fix that and remember to always be wary of a right-winger bearing "facts"! Question everything you see and hear from the media regardless of the source!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f65xilSDyso

We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They’ve got a war, they got a war with us and there’s only going to be one winner. It’s going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We’re going to win that war.

President Obama, this is your army. We are ready to march. AndPresident Obama, we want one thing: jobs, jobs, jobs… That’s what we’re going to tell him. He’s gonna be … and when he sees what we’re doing here, he will be inspired. But he needs help. And you know what? Everybody here’s got to vote. If we go back, and we keep the eye on the prize, let’s take these son of a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)es out and give America back to an America where we belong.

[Waiting For Everyman]

96. Thank you!

[FrenchieCat]

94. So this is to be all about Obama, once again, hey?

Perhaps some smart person will make a T-shirt that reads...

Keep your eye on the Prize, make sure to vote,
and let's get rid of those GOP SOB!

Now, that would get the Hoffa message out far and wide,
instead of focusing on "what will Obama do?" once again.

It's like the distraction our enemies pray for is created by those who would claim
to be such great political analysts....but instead of making the GOP the focus offensively,
some would rather shift the focus and anticipate how to kick the hell out of Obama.
The GOP appreciate this redirected singleness of purpose from some of our own, tell you that!

[Zorra]

97. Alas, it's too late for me...hey, maybe they'll give you the room next to mine!

It's the Chief's old room, got the window that looks over the staff entrance, it's a good one.

I mean, if you do the "Obama Snap" that is...that's why most of us are here. Myself, I lost it just last week, after the proposed EPA regs were scrapped. I'm doing better now, I don't have to be sedated anymore, and my profane Tourette's has diminished considerably. Fffff ---ffff... fu..fu..see, it's really under control! I'm getting strong again.

The majority of the crew were committed after the debt deal, I guess the sheer audacity and number of insults we've suffered reached critical mass.

They don't let us discuss politics here; they're very strict about that, it's the main part of our recovery therapy...but it's looking like the Yanks and the Sox are going to go at it in the playoffs again, and Big Nurse is going on vacation for a month beginning next week, so we'll get to watch the whole thing, maybe even the Series too. Junior Bob says he's got some beer and smokes coming - we'll see, you know how that goes.

Anyway, I expect we'll see you soon, and don't worry, it's really not so bad here.

[Enthusiast]

112. Tee.....hee, pfft

:rofl:

[Zorra]

196. Well, Will... looks like Commander Compromise capitulated again. That room is

is still open, but there's another influx of toasted progressives that just came in here to Happyland Home for the Politically Insane. Better hurry!

Do you want to try to drive here yourself, or do you want a ride in the Big White Van? The van will probably be safer for you; I think you already know this.

Anyway, like I said earlier today, we expected to see you soon.

Welcome to Happyland!

So, how bout them Sox, huh?

:beer: - :popcorn:

[cally]

100. I'll lose my mind next

someone in the WH will probably apologize and then make fun of unions and liberals in the same sentence. :bang:

[Enthusiast]

101. Kicked and recommended!

When is Obama going to issue his apology?

[flamingdem]

102. UNREC for upsetting people and not conceding that Obama had NO COMMENT, please issue UPDATE nt

[spooked911]

104. Hell yes!

though I've already pretty much lost any hope for Obama and can't see voting for him at this point.

[w0nderer]

106. k&r n/t

[kentuck]

108. K & R !

It is very important to see how the President handles this. I hope he is getting the correct advice.

[spedtr90]

114. Charles Koch called President Obama “Saddam Hussein” ...

...and that the right has to "fight the Mother of all wars" against him.

(In June, at their private meeting with wealthy donors.)

Guess Koch needs to apologize first. If he doesn't need to....


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/09/06/312067/at-strategy-seminar-with-wealthy-guests-charles-koch-referred-to-obama-as-a-saddam-hussein-to-be-defeated/

[pam4water]

115. Gets you a padded room ready.

[dbonds]

116. Is there ANY action from the past that would lead you to believe he would stand up to them?

If he stands up to them in any shape form or fashion that will be a surprise - although it is starting campaign season and candidate Obama has a different tune than President Obama.

[Muskypundit]

117. To me hoffas statement is exactly the kind of thing we scream about when we hear it on the right.

All the same arguments are used, all the same excuses... Yada Yada Yada. There is no excuse for using language like he used. It's exactly like palins don't retreat reload. It's bullshit, we are not the party of violence, and speech like that takes away from the message, plain and simple.

[trumad]

119. don't hurt your hands.

[StarsInHerHair]

150. so point out the violent elements in the Left, unlike on the Right-I haven't seen any

[Muskypundit]

168. It doesnt matter that there arnt any

Statements like his are amazingly reckless, because it risks creating violent strains. Or, more probable and more dangerous, makes the left look violent to the center. Regardless of the fact we are not.

That is how you lose the center, with quasi violent statements. That is how you empower the right, and that is how you lose elections.

[StarsInHerHair]

193. REALLY? So using language like that during the 2010 election is what made

the GOP/TP LOSE all elections? They haven't won the House? I think the mushy oatmeal middle is upset over nothing. I understand that Faux & the rest of the infotainment can will & did try their best to make Dems look scary/bad/ANGRY/dangerous/out of touch.


I remember how they portrayed Gore in 2000, called him an angry out0of0control unfeeling robot.



your excuses don't convince me, I like what Hoffa said & I like his delivery.

[Muskypundit]

200. Language like that is why Giffords and a dozen other people got shot.

Language like that is why there are a million shit stain rush limbaugh militias around this country. We are the responsible adults in this country, and that is why we are poised to win in 2012. Acting like them will get us nowhere, and only add to the hatred this country is reeling from. I dont like his language, its self defeating and scary. Just like the reich wingers.

[QC]

118. Of course he will back down. It's already started. n/t

[notadmblnd]

120. read it and weep

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1887932

[Marnie]

124. Obama has the perfect moment to show what he really

stands for.

When you think about it it is profoundly sad that loyal Democrats/liberals/progressives/union memebers/working class Americans have to hold their breaths to see whether the party leader they elected will stand up for them or stab them again.

Think about that and be very very saddened.

Et tu Barak?

[SidDithers]

127. Derp...nt

Sid

[Major Hogwash]

182. Hahahahahaha!!!!

I stole that fucking picture, man!
That is funnier than shit!!

[Deep13]

129. Well, the history of the unions was such...

...that if legal remedies were inadequate, it was sometimes necessary to resort to intimidation, property destruction and occasionally violence--especially when violence was being used to suppress the union.

Maybe not a bad idea to remind the fascists of that, even though it is clear that the context of the speech was directed toward elections, not violence.

[w0nderer]

191. that's actually the much forgotten purpose

of at least May 1st in Europe

dunno bout labor day here

May 1st demonstrations in western Europe are all about power demonstration for the employers
WE took a paid holiday (forced you to give us one)
WE spend it showing you our power, how we stand united and willing to fight
WE fire ourselves up to remember why we vote for our labor friendly reps and why we 'fight'
WE warn you by our mere numbers, by our resolve, by our standing united in all towns across the countries...don't step on us too hard

forgetting that means loosing the intimidation of 'strike' 'united we stand workers'

[Deep13]

192. +1 nt

[sandyj999]

No apology is needed, it's called freedom of speech.

As for Obama, stay out of it!

[jwirr]

130. K&R

[Deep13]

131. Sounds like Hoffa is throwing down the glove.

He's giving Obama a chance to pick it up and do what Senator Obama promised. If POTUS does not pick it up, the Unions will know to look elsewhere, a primary challenge, a new party, or sitting this one out with the intention of trying to dethrone Perry in '16.

[HipChick]

138. Hell...they've called President Obama worst...where are the apologies?

[Initech]

145. Totally agree, the tea party and the billionaires really crossed the line.

[ChiciB1]

148. AB-SO-'EFFING-LUTELY! But Don't Place Any Bets That He WON'T

BACK DOWN! Fighting fire with fire doesn't seem to be something he has in his DNA! I myself have given up on trying to figure this person out. POTUS, perhaps in name only!

It is now time that WE as Democrats stand up and quit covering HIS behind when he keeps caving! If he can't see us BEGGING for him to take action now, I doubt he ever will! I had thought that no matter what, given what the other side is putting up that he would probably get re-elected. Now, I wouldn't put a dime down on it.

An extremely sad state of affairs. I'm with Hoffa & Trumka and all others who are trying so hard to make him see. He seems blind AND oblivious and I find this outrageous.

[pacalo]

151. WHAT IS IT with their needing APOLOGIES all the time?

They're LUCKY that WORSE hasn't been publicly said about them, as corrupt & insensitive as they are.

[underpants]

152. Talk radio and Fox News is built on the foundation of victimization

they just can't catch a break you see BUT if you follow *me* (Rush, O'Reilly, etc.) I will lead you out of the wilderness while manly being such a WINNER!!

it goes something like that.

[Vattel]

155. unrec because you have an inaccurate quote

that makes Hoffa's remark look like a call to violence.

[JohnnyRingo]

158. I don't see an upside to doing so, and I can't imagine the White House does either.

To speculate they may is just unnecessary and premature hand wringing.

The administration has frustrated many here with what most view as traitorous aisle crossing and caving like a grass hut in a snowstorm, but it'd be incredible that the White House doesn't know this faux issue will fade quietly away in three news cycles.

I'm not even sure they have time to "apologize" before the next big thing catches the right's attention. As you recall, there's been one "crisis" after another on a weekly basis for 3 years, from the birth certificate and death panels to Michelle's vacation itinerary.

No one has to clarify for Mr Hoffa, he chose his words carefully.

[redwhiteblue]

165. Why apologize?

Why should Obama apologize for something Hoffa said?
He cannot be responsible for everything that comes out of other people's mouth.
The cry babies should think about all the insulting and vulgar things that come out of Rush Limbaugh . Ann Coulter and Glen Beck. I am listening for an apology from all of them. Grow up you poor abused whiners.

[Skittles]

167. of course he will

COUNT ON IT

[upi402]

171. He has. Here it is:

"“Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself, he speaks for the labor movement, AFL-CIO,” Carney said, in response to a reporter’s question. “The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-hoffa-carney-tea-party-20110906,0,1343002.story

[Major Hogwash]

178. Well, that didn't take long, did it?

I wonder if Obama is going to campaign on anyone else's behalf this way in 2012?

I've got a bag of a dozen, old, crusty donuts I bought 2 months ago to bet that he does.

[scheming daemons]

199. Um.. check your outrage meter. It's broken.

[Major Hogwash]

201. Nope, sorry lumpy, it doesn't work that way in my house.

Do what you want in yours, but not in mine.

[scheming daemons]

198. Um... that isn't in ANY WAY an apology.

You're off base.


"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself" is the exact opposite of an apology.

[Skittles]

203. CORRECT

it's a COWARD'S DISAVOWAL

[scheming daemons]

208. Not even close to accurate... but you're looking for reasons to be outraged...

"Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself" is the exact correct response to the question:

"What did you think of Mr. Hoffa's comments?"



It is 180 degrees from a "disavowal".

[ooglymoogly]

204. No one thought for a minute that Hoffa was speaking

for "0", nor did Hoffa claim to, in any way, be speaking for "0". It was not necessary for "0" to say Hoffa speaks for himself. So what was the purpose of the "comment"??????....but to say "0" does not want to be associated in any way with Hoffa's speech.

[scheming daemons]

206. Um... Carney was asked about the comment. Carney's answer was "Hoffa speaks for himself"

The exact appropriate response.

[ooglymoogly]

216. Ummm....I believe the end of the quote was "I speak for the President"

the full quote:

Carney said, “Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself. He speaks for the labor movement, AFL-CIO. The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president.”

[Name removed]

180. Deleted message

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[tawadi]

183. Same here

Though I am mentally preparing myself for it.

[Hello World]

184. Don't torture yourself, most today would be shocked if he actually ran with the lead hoffa just gave

of course he should put it in diplomatic terms and phrases, but he should definitely take this opprotunity to reframe the debate.

unfortunately, he works for the man, imho.

:hi:

[ooglymoogly]

221. Yes indeed. nr

[TwilightGardener]

185. Have you still got your faculties, as of this evening?

[WilliamPitt]

189. It wasn't as bad as it could have been.

Blowing the union affiliation, however, does make me want to punch myself.

I swear to God, these people could fuck up the recipe for boiled water.

[Name removed]

210. Deleted message

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[ooglymoogly]

219. Speaking of faulty reasoning....Jeeeeeeeees.

The full quote:

Carney said, “Mr. Hoffa speaks for himself. He speaks for the labor movement, AFL-CIO. The president speaks for himself. I speak for the president.”

[demwing]

226. scheming daemons?

Speak for yourself

[Occulus]

227. If you hate Labor, it is.

"The President agree with Mr. Hoffa" would have been the CORRECT response.

[a2liberal]

244. This. Thanks for putting it so succinctly

A disavowal/disassociation, while not technically an apology, is in the same vein. It's saying "I don't want to be associated with those comments". A strong supporter of labor would have backed Hoffa up. The apologists may not like that, but those are the facts.

[Number23]

231. Exactly. Used to be folks at least looked for something INTERESTING to froth over

Now, half these folks are in tears because it's a Thursday.

[scentopine]

205. This is class warfare, we are under attack, not only should have said "take them out" he should have

added, "and prosecute them for war crimes".

[ooglymoogly]

225. Now you are on to something nt

[Name removed]

212. Deleted message

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[Ellipsis]

215. Sniff... what's that smell?

[orbitalman]

217. K & R

[PatrynXX]

229. think someone with the vids

is going to come up with a quick display of every gutter language word the tea party has ever said. Sorry excuse me. THis is a FREE COUNTRY. fuck off tea party. you love to say Jesus Christ and God Damn when that suits you. even though your breaking a commandment. Or beat up your wife or whatever. Ain't shutting me up. I don't shut you up your not shutting me up.

[Zambero]

232. Harry Truman would have approved

That's good enough for me. No words are too harsh when levied against those who seek to wipe out the hard-earned progress of the past 50+ years. Say it loud and say it often!

[chill_wind]

233. Good for Hoffa. A little tough talk shock doctrine has them all running for the smelling salts.

Or pretending to. The RW crazies and their media tools have forgotten for decades, it seems, what it's like to be confronted. Really confronted. I expect nothing of this sort from Obama, but I hope Hoffa is just warming up and gets his army.

K & R.

[demgrrrll]

235. USA today NO apology from White House.

[Cobalt-60]

236. I'll apologize

with the business end of a buggy whip!

[Fruittree]

238. I don't think he should apologize either particularly

as he didn't say anything but it is kind of curious that people seem to view politeness and a willingness to work together as weak and wrong somehow. How did our society get this way?

[DCKit]

239. Let 'em stew in it for as long as it takes. No apology. nt

[tomg]

241. Hoffa and the President should apologize

Hoffa to sons of bitches everywhere for insulting them by comparing the average son of a bitch to the fucking sociopaths he was actually referring to.
And President Obama to everyone else for not calling them sons of bitches about a year and a half ago when they were clearly sons of bitches but not yet complete sociopaths.

[unionworks]

243. what we're up against

I was in the steelworkers in the 70's and was in a UE organizing drive in the 90's. I have and still do survive in non union shops. I have had my car vandalized, had my family harrassed, and have been physically confronted by company paid goons. These people do not care about your delicate naieve sense of fairness and decency. They will do whatever it takes to break labor, up to and iincluding having you bumped off if they can get away with it. In the light of what. These SOBs have been doing I feel Mr. Hoffas words were too gentle.

[Name removed]

249. Deleted message

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