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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 09:58 PM
Original message
Will belief trump facts?
You might call it the cognitive divide — the split between an evidence-based worldview and one that is rooted in faith or ideology — and it is one of the most important fault lines in the United States today.

President Barack Obama called attention to the cognitive divide, and reminded us which side he comes down on, at the beginning of this week, when he chose the Princeton University economist Alan Krueger to lead his Council of Economic Advisers.

Krueger is a labor economist, and at first blush, that focus may seem the important part of his résumé. Unemployment, after all, is still above 9 percent, and the president has said job creation is his priority. But when you talk to the insiders about Krueger, what they emphasize is his mastery of data and his utter commitment to the truths it can be coaxed to tell.

Lawrence Summers, the former Treasury secretary and a Harvard economist, described Krueger, his former student, as a “total empiricist” and a “great data monger following the data where it went.” Lawrence Katz, a fellow Harvard economist and one of the pre-eminent labor economists, enthusiastically agreed: “Alan has an open mind and lets the data speak.”

...
Krueger’s devotion to data is a key to understanding a question that has been puzzling a lot of Americans as they reflect on the past three years, and start thinking about how they will vote in the upcoming one: What does Obama really stand for?

To his critics on the right, the president is a socialist with dangerous foreign antecedents. To his critics on the left, he is a waffler with no real point of view and a craven desire to be liked.

Krueger’s nomination points to an entirely different explanation: The president is an empiricist. He wants to do what works, not what conforms to a particular ideology or what pleases a particular constituency. His core belief is a belief in facts.

http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/09/02/will-belief-trump-facts/
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, it may be true that Obama has so much self confidence
that he really doesn't give a rats ass if he appears to be wimpy and spineless as long as he achieves a working result.

The problem with this hypothesis is that the results he has achieved are in many cases somewhat less than ideal and as a result he seems willing to settle for any solution just to avoid conflict.

Unfortunately the liberal media and most of the rest of America view todays politics as sport, with winners and losers in every controversy. And Obama's reputation is taking a terrible hit as he is portrayed as a loser precisely because of his tendency to settle for poor compromises.

This is the new America where perception not only trumps reality, it has replaced it. And the president needs to learn that and learn to operate within it.
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Mr Deltoid Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Of course it does, in certain people
The whole republican party is a good example of it.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't agree with Obama being an empirical man
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 10:17 PM by wuushew
The structure of the stimulus was his to craft when it was being setup. Regardless of the eventual inadequate size of the project the data should told him to listen to Volker and go big on infrastructure.

His approach failed practically and politically. What are his sources of data by which he makes his decissions?
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Great men know what works and what is right and wrong without a calculator...
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 11:06 PM by scentopine
FDR knew, Lincoln knew, they knew what was right and what was wrong without computers or calculators. There is more than enough moral precedent, constitutional framework AND data to point Obama in the correct direction.

Jesus Christ. How sensible and pragmatic. Obama is counting angels on the head of a pin while Wall Street is robbing us blind and worker wages and salaries are in a death spiral.

He's fiddling with numbers while Rome is burning.

One can imagine Obama pacing the halls of the White House, wringing his hands, passing by the portrait of FDR without a moment of reflection, finally coming to rest under the portrait of his inspiration, Ronald Reagan and asking "Hmmm, what could be wrong... I wonder? I flooded rich with cash, I gave the rich tax breaks and tax credits, I save BP's ass from prosecution, I saved Wall Street's ass from prosecution, I started a third war, I flooded the rich with more cash, I think we need more Harvard types to study this problem because I'm fresh out of ideas..."

Now, let's have the sensible and right wing propaganda bullshit about how much harder it is for Obama now, then it was for FDR and Lincoln. Its sickening enough that the windbag Summers (i.e. Recovery Summers) is trotted out as a credible endorsement.






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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Political calculus has nothing to do with empirical data
As I see it, the President, on issue after issue, begins his negotiations with the opposition having already determined what he believes the other side will agree to. Now, that predetermination, in the context of any particular issue, could be correct or it could be incorrect. It's a hunch (and most of the time probably a pretty well-educated hunch, but a hunch nonetheless.) But regardless of whether the predetermination was correct or not, the fact that the President uses it as his starting point for negotiations means, inevitably, that any resulting final agreement will be weighted even more in favor of the opposition. The one thing we'll never know with this President is what could have happened if the President had staked out positions well to the left of where he ultimately figured the agreement would land, and had vigorously fought for those positions both in the negotiating room and in speeches to the public. Had he managed to get a significant proportion of voters behind more progressive ideas, who knows what political pressure might have been brought to bear on Republicans?

As a bit of a personal aside, I'm reminded of the very first time I bought a car of my own, when I learned a little something about negotiating with an adversary. It was 1984 (I was 23). My Dad went with me to several different dealers of different makes, but ultimately it was at the Nissan dealership that I saw the car I simply had to have. A silver 1984 Nissan Stanza 4-door sedan, 5-speed standard transmission with a sunroof. Now, I was prepared to pay the sticker price right then and there (I figured it was like anything else I was used to buying: it had a price tag, and you paid the cashier the price on the tag!) At some point, seeing the negotiating fiasco that was playing out before his eyes, my Dad stepped in and began haggling with the salesman. But it was a little too late: the salesman had already seen that I was determined to get that car. Dad managed to bring the price down by a couple hundred bucks, but the salesman wouldn't budge beyond that because he knew I was determined to buy the car. As we were leaving the dealership, I was a bit annoyed with my Dad; in my 23-year-old, thank-you-I-already-know-everything-there-is-to-know-about-the-world arrogance, I was insulted that Dad "took over" my interaction with the salesman. I mean, I was a full grown man of 23! So as we were leaving I said to Dad in a slightly irritated tone of voice, "You know, I was perfectly capable of handling that myself!" Dad chuckled a little bit, and said, "Well, look, I wasn't trying to step on your toes, and I know you could have completed the purchase yourself. I know you are a competent adult. But this happens to be an area where I, as a 57 year-old, have some experience that you, as a 23 year-old, do not have. I was simply trying to prevent you having to pay more for the car than was really necessary." He went on to explain the game that is played with car sales, and why it was thus important when negotiating a sale never to telegraph either that you have already made up your mind to buy a particular car (even if you had), or to ever let the dealer know what your bottom line was; and he added that one needn't worry at all about "taking advantage" of the dealer, because all of this was built into their business model. (Of course, in my naïveté, it simply hadn't occurred to me that a car salesman might be less-than-totally upfront or honest with me.) Needless to say, I felt pretty foolish at having been insulted by my Dad's efforts!

So to get back to the President's negotiating strategy, I imagine many of us can think of a story not unlike the one I shared above where we learned a little something about how the world works. And that's what stumps me with regard to the President. He is clearly an extremely intelligent man. As someone schooled in law, surely he must have at least a passing understanding of the kinds of negotiating tactics lawyers and business persons typically employ when negotiating deals. So I am simply at a loss to understand how a 50 year-old man (he's just three months younger than me) can get to this stage of life without understanding that in a highly politicized, polarized environment, anything short of the hardest political hardball will result in your getting played bigtime. In fact, I find it almost impossible to believe any 50 year-old wouldn't understand that. So then I'm left to wonder, since he surely must be aware of how adversarial negotiations are played, why does he constantly refuse to play the game, especially when the results wind up being significantly short of the original goals he (claims to have) supported? And the only answers I cna come up with to that question are profoundly troubling ones.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-06-11 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. well said nt
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