Global weather change and THIS YEAR

[nadinbrzezinski]

lemme see a tornado cluster that was off the scale...
A hurricane that was a cat 3 at the center and a cat one on the very large edges
Yes a snowstorm that was off any known scale.
Now the fires in texas...as well as a drought that is unrelenting...


All this was predicted by the weather science...

And at least to me this indicates a climactic change that is accelerating.

So to those who deny it... at this point I only have one thing to say to you... and it is not nice...

Hold on to your horses though...

[Odin2005]

1. The relative humidity in some parts of Texas is 5%.

:wow:

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Not good if you are trying to fight a fire

[TheMadMonk]

3. Wonderful if trying to light. Not so wonderful for containment. /nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. At this point I am looking at tropical depression maps

this is so dry... that they will need RAIN and quite a bit of it.

[undergroundpanther]

5. I'd add

A 2/1/2 week thunderstorm that wouldn't go away it stalled,just hung there storming occasionally a few minutes break,then storming again lightening,thunder the works.At night when it wasn't actively storming it was so humid at around 70 degrees you couldn't spend 30 seconds out at night without being drenched in sweat..After 2 1/2 weeks,we had around two sunny days..and today,we are still stuck storming now. Irene came and it didn't change much weather wise just windier,and constant rain rather than constantly intermittent rain.

[defendandprotect]

12. We need to be discussing nuclear reactors and shutting them down... about 2 in every state -- !!

[XemaSab]

26. How does that relate to the OP?

What do you propose to replace the power with?

[defendandprotect]

30. Global Warming is bringing more earthquakes - more severe earthquakes ... due to

glacier melting which shifts pressure on the tectonic plates --

Earthquakes also generate more volcanic activity --


There was an effort by the town of Fukushima to shut down their nuclear reactors --

which, btw, take one year to properly shut down and I don't know if that includes

appropriate disposal of the WASTE even if there is such a thing!

Unfortunately, their local government efforts were diverted by W Bush -- and

nuclear industry reps --



What do you propose to replace the power with?

You're asking how else can we boil water to create steam?

And without polluting water resources -- i.e., there are two nuclear reactors on Lake

Erie -- a source of drinking water!


We have many alternative sources of energy -- and we need to move to more LOCAL sources --

including solar and wind -- solar batteries.


When ENRON was doing its dirty in disrupting customers in California -- over a 4 month period

sufficient wind energy was erected to supply energy for 178,000 homes!!

[Ship of Fools]

6. My brother, a science guy from MIT, let me know that the word around there

has always been: "It's going to happen so fast, we aren't going to know what hit us."

Comforting, no?

[defendandprotect]

8. Evidently, readings now on the polar shift is that it happened over a 4 year period--!!!

[AverageJoe90]

21. I doubt that's happening now, though. n/t

[defendandprotect]

31. How would you know? It's a possibility, of course -- !!

Scientists have discussed it as a possible end result of Global Warming --

Read something about it --

[defendandprotect]

11. True -- scientists have long said that they couldn't predict how all of this would compound..!!

PLUS every time they turned around their 50 year predictions were happening

like 15 months later!!

We're only now beginning to feel the effects of our human activity post-1960!!

Imagine all we did after that time!!


Plus we're still losing trees -- the storms are taking them -- and new development

is still taking them. We're still destroying trees with acid rain --


However -- I think it would be wise to shut down our nuclear power plants --

Could make the difference between "a whimper or a bang" -- !!



:hi: Keep on tellin' it -- !!

[truebrit71]

25. Yup. Those that suggest that the Arctic will be ice-free by 2050...

...are going to be wildly off...I think we will see that happen THIS decade...Even if we stopped using the automobiles and switched to solar and wind energy TODAY across the planet, we would STILL get warmer for at least then next 25 years...

When the shit hits the fan it won't be in an orderly one-at-a-time fashion, but it will be like being in an elevator when the cable gets cut...Things are going to change RAPIDLY...

[XemaSab]

27. Here are the projections for arctic sea ice volume

You're right; it's not going to be 2050, it's going to be more like 2015.

[truebrit71]

28. ..and that scares the crap out of me...

..once there is no ice cover up there, especially for extended periods of time, all bets are off...

[defendandprotect]

36. Heard one scientist talking about ....

the bigger snows we've been getting -- and he said that the glacier melting

is like having your freezer door open --

When all the ice is gone -- ouch!

[defendandprotect]

32. Agree -- and that's why its urgent to get the nuclear reactors shut down -- "a whimper or a bang" !!

[tkmorris]

7. OK. I said I wasn't going to do this, but...

Nadine you aren't helping with this. Actually you are harming the argument for climate change. I say this to you as someone who has examined piles of evidence and is firmly in the "climate change is real and is occurring" camp.

Every single item you mentioned in your OP is anecdotal, and not particularly abnormal. A "tornado cluster that was off the scale"? What scale are you talking about? While there have been some very destructive tornadoes this past year they are anything but unprecedented. "A hurricane that was a cat 3 at the center and a cat one on the very large edges". I'm not sure what that is supposed to even mean. Cat 3 storms occur pretty much every single season, and believe it or not there are a couple categories higher than that, which also occur with some regularity. "A snowstorm that was off any known scale", huh? I'm not even sure what snowstorm you are referring to, which should give some indication that whichever one it was it wasn't exactly that big of a deal, let alone off some unspecified scale. The drought in Texas is perhaps your most viable example but again, droughts are not exactly unheard of.

You are trying to use individual weather events to argue CLIMATE, and they are simply not the same thing. If you really want to make the case that such events are indicative of climate change you need to show that they have been occurring with greater frequency over an extended period of time. You need data. Numbers, facts, throw in a few charts and graphs to illustrate that the events you describe are actually outside of the norm.

When you try to use a few very much precedented events to make the case that climate change is real you are engaging in PRECISELY the same fallacy that Fox News anchors do when they laughingly dismiss global warming because some town in South Dakota hit a record low for that date. Climate change is shown by a PREPONDERANCE of data, taken over a number of years, not a few isolated and not really unusual events. Attempting to do so makes your argument as ridiculous as theirs, and tars all of the rest of us by association.

[Ship of Fools]

15. Hi! I agree with you on this, but please don't equate me

with Fox News effect (this was the final take away I got from your post ...) I'm well aware that climate change has to do with patterns and trends over long periods of time. Right now, however, I'm marveling, intuitively, at the effects of climate change. Surely you can say with fair amount of certainty, that the past DECADE has seen a greater number of tornadoes per season, a greater number of hurricanes per season, greater amounts of snowfall WITHOUT going to the data? I've been in Kansas for going on 30 years (from NY originally), and me and my husband (a Kansas native) BOTH agree that record high temps have crept up just in the last few years, and there DEFINITELY has been more tornadoes in the last few years. I guess I'm simply taking for granted the data scientists have collected and that the vast majority of scientists agree about the existence of climate change and at the moment am just chatting about the effects with the like-minded.

I also trust my brother -- a straight shooter.

Thanks!

[Ship of Fools]

16. PS to tkmorris:

I know you weren't speaking to me directly, but my take was that your comment to the particular poster was that she/he was *stirring up trouble* or something like that ... Not trying to be confrontational ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Oh he does that all the franking time

[pintobean]

17. Excellent post. Unfortunately it will go mostly unnoticed.

People seem to think over-hyping will move the ball forward. It actually flattens the ball.

[fascisthunter]

50. no... we noticed it

it doesn't refute what Nadin is saying. How can global warming NOT be a factor in today's weather? Since it is ever present, it is a factor and will be for many years to come until we change the way we live on this planet.

So, again, how is global warming NOT a factor?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. They are part of a three decade, at least, long term trend

Go argue with that. This said, now it is starting to be NOTICEABLE beyond weather long range reports.

[defendandprotect]

38. Only in America is anyone in denial of Global Warming -- but that doesn't include our scientists!!

Think your best bet with deniers at this point -- so far into this --

is simply to ignore them --

We've known about Global Warming since the late 1950's -- scientists probably a

lot earlier -- certainly in the 1880's they recognized the imapct of the industrial

revolution on nature/trees --

Certainly it's something that we can all figure out just based on common sense --


Time to start dealing with the MIC and those nuclear reactors -- !!



:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Not only in the US

Just to be clear.

[defendandprotect]

43. Want to elaborate ....

to my knowledge US is the only country where we have denial of GW --

and I mean government -- elected officials --

Granted, you could probably find posters like those here who will disagree

anywhere --

but the overall concept as far as I'm aware is only being denied by government resistance

here in US --

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. A little in russia

And china is still debating

Non OECD economies have taken the less than heathy attitude of we also want to develop, damn it...(India for example)

[defendandprotect]

46. Thank you --

I'm just reviewing two books on Global Warming -- one I'd read much earlier --

and will follow if I find anything more on this ---

But my sense from my last go around with it was that we were giving very disappointing

leadership to GW talks -- in fact, the last GW get together fell apart because of us

as I recall --

I'll catch up on this when I catch up on the reading --

Meanwhile, thanks for the work you're doing on this --


:hi:

[truebrit71]

23. So noticing the ratchetting up of significant weather events is BAD?

The weather events are getting MORE severe specifically BECAUSE of global climate change...What the OP addresses is the severity over events this year of previous years, NOT the "it's snowing in december so Al Gore is full of shit" mantra...


Weather and global climate change are absolutely linked...

[defendandprotect]

9. We're only now beginning to feel effects of Global Warming from 1960 onward ...!!!

That's because we had a 50 year gap in our feeling the effects -- though the

glaciers have been melting since the 1940's --

Scientists have know since the late 1880's that industrial revolutio was seriously

impacting nature, especially trees --


Also, glacier melting is changing the pressure on the tectonic plates which causes

earthquakes -- we will have more earthquakes -- and earthquakes of more severe intensity.


We need to shut down our nuclear reactors -- we have 103/106 in US -- and it takes 6 months

to properly shut one down -- tho not sure if that includes any sane/sensible removal of the

WASTE?



In other words, folks ... had we never engaged in any "bus-i-ness" we would have been

ahead of the game -- we'd still have the planet and a home base!!


We could have all been enjoying life rather than enabling a bunch of fools to make

"profits" -- which they used to buy illegitimate power ovelr us -- !!

[defendandprotect]

10. Fukushima nuclear reactors were going to be shut down ...due to increasing seismic activity...!!!

But W Bush sent a team of nuclear people to intervene --

wouldn't have looked good for the this highly dangerous and toxic industry which

uses nuclear power to boil water to create steam!


Imagine all the pain and suffering and death that could have been avoided had the

will of the people and sane government officials been followed -- !!


Let's not let this happen here -- we have 103/106 of our own nuclear power plants

which should be shut down --

Could make the difference between "a whimper or a bang" -- !!

[marions ghost]

51. ditto

n/t

[AsahinaKimi]

13. Typhoon leaves 27 dead, 51 missing, causing worst damage since 2004

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1882673

[ohheckyeah]

14. We've been on tornado

warning for over 6 hours. We don't normally have tornadoes any more than we have earthquakes.

One tornado touched down I believe it was in Dublin, VA.

[RebelOne]

18. Had tornado warnings yesterday here

in Woodstock, Georgia. Tornadoes hit within a mile from me. Those tornado sirens were blaring for over an hour.

[defendandprotect]

41. Frightening ---

Sunday, Albany had a tornado come thru over the NY State parkway --

Right now we're still getting heavy rain here in NJ --

we're OK but many areas still haven't recovered from IRENE --

[defendandprotect]

39. Wow -- more storms/hurricanes ... more tornados, more cyclones -- !!

Trust you'll be OK -- frightening!


We're getting still more heavy rain here in NJ --

some areas are experiencing flooding of roadways!

And this will be going on thru Friday -- !!



:hi:

[AverageJoe90]

22. TBH, I don't think it solely related to anthropogenic warming..........

But on the other hand, I'm certainly not saying it's not a problem, because it clearly is. All I'm saying is, there ARE other factors involved.........

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Most of the few decades evidence

Has quite a bit of a role for human activity.

[AverageJoe90]

33. True.

I was just talking about this one event, though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Well this is a tidbit

I grew up in Mexico city...the changes in the weather were obvious ten years ago down there. In the US they were not that obvious yet. Yes, observant folks noticed armadillos ranging north, or flowering a week early. It wasn't obvious yet. Now it is starting to. It was predicted in the science too.

So these series of events fit in that...no one could be considered evidence, but the series of them can.

I hope we do move from this is a joke to taking it seriously soon though.

Suffice it to say a single weather event does not mean climate change...a series of them starts adding up.

[defendandprotect]

42. Isn't just Texas -- there's a drought across 14 states --

While some of us here in the NE are still flooding -- still getting raiend on!!


Climate change is something normal --

Global Warming is about HEATING up the atmosphere which brings chaotic weather ---


In fact, it was the notorious GOP propagandist, Frank Luntz, who told W Bush to change

the name to "Climate Change" --


But, we also around he same time had a secret memo from the Pentagon -- evidently there

is still some sanity/common sense at the Pentagon -- telling W Bush that Global Warming

was a more serious threat to US than "terrorism."



Global Warming culprits are Capitalism and oil industry -- those controlling our natural

resources and still pushing for burning fossil fuels --

still pushing for nuclear power to boil water to create steam !! Yikes!!


They'd rather have an enemy they can bomb for profit --

Unable to resurrect the COLD WAR, they settled on terrorism!!


Overall these chaotic weather events are making things more dangerous in areas of nuclear

reactors!!

[AverageJoe90]

47. Yeah.

Isn't the weather usually pretty decent in Mexico City, btw?

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Let's just put it this way

They have a historic drought and the hot two weeks, 90 to 100 are now three months.

[Romulox]

29. With the earth's population doubling every few decades, there's little we can do...

The world's digestive tract runs on oil, from fertilizer to transport to the table. We will burn all of the oil until none is left, and we will reproduce without halt until that goal is accomplished.

[AverageJoe90]

34. How about an all-natural solution to these problems?

Hemp. Good for the environment, good for the soul. :hippie:

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Oh the population collapse will start well before that

[defendandprotect]

45. Oil should have been gone decades ago -- this is purposeful destruction by elites ....

who control our natural resources and push the burning of fossil fuels --

We have many other alternatives -- long have had them --

Like we need to throw pesticides and chemicals on our foods? From the very

beginning of that era it was obvious that it was costing nutrition of our vegetation --

now it's seriously undeniable.



We have overpopulation because of patriarchy's destruction of plants -- which are our

medicines/drugs -- our birth control. Nature is pro-choice and gave women myriad ways

to control fertility. It took a lot of violence to gain control over women and

reproduction and it is suicidal for humanity.


As long as the insane are running the show, we will have an insane ending --



PATRIARCHY -- "the bird with one wing" --



PATRIARCHY -- and its underpinning =

ORGANIZED PATRIARCHAL RELIGION -- and its economic invention =

CAPITALISM =

THE UNHOLY TRINITY

[fascisthunter]

49. if Global Warming Exists, then yes, of course it has been evident

we know what scientists have told us about Global Warming, that storms would be more severe... to pretend global warming is not effecting our more recent weather, is like saying that somehow global warming only effects certain storms.... um, it called "GLOBAL" for a reason and it is always a factor now.

Another thought provoking post.

[marions ghost]

52. Global Warming deniers

are also scientist/intellectual haters.