Biden: "I am about to be let loose."

[Robb]

He's at the Cincinnati AFL-CIO picnic, rile'n 'em up. :D

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/801-economy/179521-fiery-biden-riles-up-union-members-in-ohio">Fiery Biden riles up union members in Ohio

Vice President Joe Biden delivered a fiery speech to a big labor event in Cincinnati Ohio on Monday where he urged his audience to stop a Republican anti-union "onslaught."

(snip)

Biden said that in the upcoming presidential campaign he will be fighting for nothing less than the survival of the American working class.

"I am about to be let loose," he said.

:toast:

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. Why wasn't he "let loose" on 1/21/09? nt

[NYC_SKP]

2. My theory has always been that the second term is for kicking ass... The first term is...

... for making sure you don't let the Republicans get your Second Term.

:P

[Broderick]

7. Yep yep yeppers

[joshcryer]

10. That's not really a theory, that's a political reality, the President isn't a dictator.

That said, we really need to work our asses off to get congresspeople elected in droves.

[NYC_SKP]

14. +1 re: Congress...

Give Obama the kind of Congress FDR had and see what happens...

:hi:

[mazzarro]

50. DLC/Third Way/New Dems Control Democratic Agenda

Have a strong doubt that many or big progressives policies will happen in a DLC dominated administration with or without a Democratic Congress. The leadership we now have are more DLC leaning - almost all of them.

I am already resigned to waiting for the next presidential nominee from the left to determine how much optimistic to be. For now I will only settle to work for and cheer for, as much as possible, a left leaning congress we can get.

[NYC_SKP]

57. NGU.

Never Give Up.

DLC or not, at least if they're DLC they can be called to task and challenged.

The truth is that with the paltry numbers of Dems we've had, it doesn't matter because just a few blue dogs can screw it up.

With FDR numbers we can afford a few rats.

FDR's 1935 (74th) Congress:

Senate--

....Dems: 73

....Reps: 21

House--

....Dems: 322

....Reps: 103

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Obama's 2011 (112th) Congress:

Senate--

....Dems: 51

....Reps: 47

House--

....Dems: 193

....Reps: 243

:patriot:

[immoderate]

86. Called to task and challenged by whom?

A progressive who runs against a DLC incumbent in a primary, will find a well financed opponent running to his/her left, ready to split that vote.

--imm

[SwampG8r]

119. so i am not

the only one who has noticed the way the DLC candidates always seem to have a spoiler in the race?how a perot always seems to pop up when they need one? or a charlie crist? and when they dont have a real one they drag one in anyway like nader. huntsman was the DLC choice for GOP nominee this time but he was rejected.
or in the case of the florida senate election of 2010 just spoil the race by supporting a former republican while demeaning the progressive democrat.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

128. Very illuminating numbers

Thanks for posting these. Time to clean house.

[kenfrequed]

161. right...

I noticed you used 2011 numbers in congress rather than... I dunno... 2009? You know, when we actually DID give him a decent majority. Granted he didn't have a supermajority, but oddly enough Republicans manage to get things done without a supermajority and block the ever living crap out of things without a supermajority.

[FedUp_Queer]

175. Hmmm..

I noticed that too. Interestingly, the things real progressives call O(GOP)bama to task are things he signed in 2009 and 2010...you know when he had big majorities. It gets old trying to just point out to the toadies where O(GOP)bama is not a progressive and has really not fought for anything progressive. It's always Congress' fault. All the progressives in the senate and the house in the world would not have made Obama against indefinite detention, prosecuting more whistleblowers than ever or deporting more undocumented people than ever.

[joshcryer]

58. A President is limited, a DLC Congress would be bad, but it's not the trend.

The trend is, when we actually get the vote out, is far more progressive candidates. The Congressional Progressive Caucus is the largest non-party Caucus in the Congress, for example. The crazy stuff that the 2008 Congress sent to the Senate was mind boggling good, but the Senate Democrats blocked it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

124. The Fucking DLC Senate Democrats, that is.

Every failure of the Democratic Party for the last 30 years can be laid at the feet of the Fucking DLC.

[xxqqqzme]

133. You got that right.

The only bright spot was when Howard Dean was DNC chair. When a real democrat is at the helm, significant change takes place and we move forward. When Dean left all the air escaped. The DNC is flat and lifeless again.

[Vincardog]

166. That is why we need to DRAFT DEAN or Pres in 2012

[ooglymoogly]

173. Lest we forget...the few bits of good news out of the 2010 election

The Bluedogs lost half their number. Something the Beltway loons do not like to think about and would like us to forget; while the progressives strengthened their power.

My bet is we have a good chance to vote in a strong progressive congress come 2012.

[Historic NY]

68. YES, its time to fix & finish the unfinished.

[mikekohr]

101. Bingo!

best post. Ever.

[RaleighNCDUer]

122. FDR was not DLC, and did not have a DLC controlled congress.

Fuck the Republicans - the ones kicking our collective ass are the Third Wayers, or Fifth Columnists as I prefer to call them.

[tomg]

156. Absolutely spot on.

Incidentally, I have a young friend down your way who was very energized and worked hard in 2008. He and a number of people like him just can't see themselves voting for Obama next time out. They are looking for a real progressive. I'm up in NY where Obama is a lock. In North Carolina, it is a whole different issue. He will vote for progressives, not corporatists. That is where the election will be won or lost. When I raised this with him, he basically said he didn't mind compromise, and he didn't mind losing ( well, we all do but). What he hated was capitulation masked as compromise. I said DLC. He said, yup.

[Sherman A1]

177. Agreed

:thumbsup:

[pangaia]

147. He HAD a Democratic Congress... and what?

[elocs]

163. When the country as evenly divided as it is now, that will never happen.

But then reality sucks and is often not popular here at DU.

[ooglymoogly]

167. Gee it seems he had something close to that the first two years in office.

But I agree the only hope we have is to get as many liberal democratic congresspeople elected as we can.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

169. Nice Peter Kropotkin Avatar!

I know it's off-topic, but just had to say. :toast:

[toddwv]

16. Some people forget this reality of American politics.

You simply can't get re-elected if you lose the middle.

[tcaudilllg]

83. The modern middle isn't a middle.

It's an ignorant, indifferent bunch of self-interested hounds who will vote for anyone who cuts their taxes.

The encroachment of anarchist sentiment on the left has removed many left-wing voters from the rolls. Now the center right holds sway. Self-serving extremists in the center-right work hard to perpetuate the growth of this anarchy and with it, the hand of the kleptocracy in Washington.

When the anarchists sit out the election, democracy fails to function ideally.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

171. Huh?

[tcaudilllg]

196. Why are Anarchists even allowed to post on a political organizing forum?

Anarchists are the scum of the earth.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

198. That's your opinion, I suppose.

Not very well informed, but an opinion nonetheless.

It's kind of surprising what an intolerant statement made here on a progressive forum.

[nineteen50]

87. The only thing you find in the middle of the road is?

[southerncrone]

197. Dead skunks.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

99. Then how do you explain Bernie Sanders?

[Taft_Bathtub]

107. Obama lost the middle the first year he was in office

How do you explain 2010 midterms?

[PatSeg]

150. Its not that he lost the middle

It was the people who didn't turn out and vote in 2010. The republican base turns out for mid-term elections, especially when there is a Democrat in the White House. I suppose if that Democrat is black, that motivates even more extremists to get to the polls.

It certainly wasn't the "middle" who voted for the whack-job candidates like Rand Paul or Joe Walsh.

[Taft_Bathtub]

182. And why didn't Democrats show up?

Because Obama installed Wall Street in his cabinet, didn't try anyone in the Bush Administration, expanded the wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan, did not close Guantanamo.

Why would anyone show up for that in big numbers?

[DaveJ]

184. It's Obama's fault Democrats in congress lost?

That's what I figured. Let's not blame the politicians who actually lost, because they did not understand their electorate.

Whether or not Obama understands his electorate (rather than the loudest voices) will be determined in the next election. He will take the blame for his win or loss. Nobody else.

[Taft_Bathtub]

185. He's in charge of the party, is he not?

He's the one establishing the agenda. Pelosi actually passed some decently progressive legislation, the Obama administration let a lot of it die in the senate. Obama was the one that had backroom deals with pharma companies to prevent reimportation, Obama was the one that pushed for an extension to the Bush tax cuts for the rich, Obama was the one that blocked any meaningful Wall Street regulations, Obama was the one that put worthless tax cuts in the stimulus bill, Obama was the one that bought into the 'debt ceiling crisis' instead of championing more jobs, Obama was the one that pushed for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid to all be cut.

[DaveJ]

190. So people voted Republican for more liberal legislation?

I just can't process that logic. I guess the point might be that people 'sat out' elections because Democrats were not liberal enough, thereby allowing Republicans to win.

This is like any other party that will allow disaster to occur if they don't get everything they want.

Anyway, bottom line is that each candidate is in charge of their own political career.

[PatSeg]

189. It tends to be the nature of a large number

of Democrats. They act with great surges of energy and passion during a presidential campaign. Then they often fall back and bask in the glow of their victories. Meanwhile, the republicans vote predictably and consistently. In 2010 Democrats were a bit too self-satisfied and republicans were angry over their 2008 losses.

We can hardly put all the blame on the president. It is a constant challenge to keep Democrats motivated.

[ooglymoogly]

199. sorry wrong place nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

125. Bullshit.

There is no 'middle' to win or lose. Stand strong for your base, and you draw in the mushy uncommitted.

It is pure myth that there is a 'center' that lies to the right of the left and the left of the right.

Doesn't exist.

[kenfrequed]

162. There is no "middle"

The "middle" is a construct. It has no absolute constituency and if you poll the supposed "middle" on the issues, you will find that they fall on the left on most of the important issues.

I honestly don't know who this "middle" is. Are they the 20% of Americans or some faction thereof that wants to cut social security or is against tax increases on the wealthy? Is this "middle" the ones that are in favor of increased free trade and shipping jobs out of the country? Is this "middle" the ones that are in favor of the protection of corporate loopholes and reducing the estate tax even further?

Who is this middle?

[pacalo]

17. That's what I've been thinking all along. Obama will have more freedom in his second term

to kick some *ss!

[AverageJoe90]

35. I hope so, too. n/t

[movonne]

49. He may have more freedom but I wonder if the DLC has a hold

on him...I love Obama and probably always will..not always thrilled with some of the shit he has done but sure want him him for my president and hope for the best...if the repugs would get the presidency there will be no hope...

[cilla4progress]

73. Well said - agree 100%

[3waygeek]

60. Only if he has at least one Dem majority in Congress...

if both houses go Rethug, odds are pretty good he'll be impeached & convicted.

[nineteen50]

89. He had both and what did he do?

[Taft_Bathtub]

109. He gave the rich a tax cut!

[Sheepshank]

117. do some homework and quite propogating shit.

Obama had a weak Dem majority for 43 days. His first 43 days. he did not have a filibuster proof majority and he also had blue dogs. Your attempt paint Obama as having the legilstive world handed to him on a platter is a fucking lie.

[rpannier]

120. Obama turned the leg work over to Baucus and others

People like Truman, LBJ and others presented what it was supposed to look like and worked it through congress
The President and the dimbulbs in Baucus' committee were too busy looking for a bipartisan bill which dragged on for months
They could have gotten Kennedy's Committee bill through or Leahy's bill through if they hadn't sat on their asses and let the conservatives regain ground.

[jeff47]

95. Congress still needs to get elected.

There is no more freedom for a President in the second term, because Congress is still looking for re-election.

Waiting for the second term to do anything important is a way to guarantee you don't have a Congress that backs you.

[rpannier]

134. Especially once they've decided he's a lame duck

Then they're out for number 1

[gkhouston]

20. So instead you let the Republicans waste your first term--the only

one you're sure you've got.

[joshcryer]

22. Nah, you do at least one big thing that's fairly good, and move on to shoring up support.

Obama got Health Care Reform passed, it's shit in so many ways, but it can be reformed immensely with the right number of votes.

[Taft_Bathtub]

108. Ok so he got nothing good done by your definition

And Obamacare is incredibly unpopular with the American public.

[blogslut]

126. That's not at all accurate

According to the http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/8217-F.pdf">most recent Kaiser poll, the numbers break down this way:

Q: As you may know, a health reform bill was signed into law early last year. Given what you know about the health reform law, do you have a generally favorable or generally unfavorable opinion of it?

Favorable - 39%
Unfavorable - 45%
Don't know/refused - 17%

In order to for the The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act to be considered "incredibly unpopular" the unfavorables would have to range somewhere over 60%. According to this survey 60% of Democrats favor the PPACA.

The observation posited by this latest result from Kaiser is that if more people were made aware of the fact that the PPACA benefited them, they would support it.

[Taft_Bathtub]

181. Only 40% approve

That's disastrous. Only 60% of Democrats? It was a Democratic bill. Horrible numbers.

Also Kaiser's assertion is dubious; the PPACA forces people to buy private insurance without any price controls, people know well enough that is horrible and that they couldn't even get a public option.

[Sheepshank]

158. Your constant RW talking points are too obvious

try being more subtle

[Taft_Bathtub]

179. You're the one defending a rightwinger

Unlike some, I don't defend Obama's horrible rightwing policies simply because he has a D next to his name.

[Sheepshank]

183. oooh another RW meme: Obama=Bush

so why do you even bother posting here? You know there are plenty of anti Obama bb's that would welcome you and not argue back your iditoic regurgitations.

[Taft_Bathtub]

186. How is that a rightwing meme? Rightwingers think he's a socialist

I'm terribly sorry you can't think past the Blue Team:Red Team dichotomy to see that you openly support a president that legitimizes many failed rightwing policies (tax cuts for the rich, deregulation, numerous foreign wars, torture). It only shows just how badly you've bought into the system that you then attack anyone that points out how badly you've been duped.

I'm not advocating anyone leaving the message board, but since you brought up the subject I'm sure you can go be Blue Team Cheerleader over at Obama For America's campaign forum where they'll all assure you how great a president he is.

[Sheepshank]

187. I think you've been here long enough to see those equivalency posts n/t

[Taft_Bathtub]

193. Typical, no response to my post

I expected as much.

[Sheepshank]

194. who the fuck so you think you are...I responded...you just didn't like the response.

[NYC_SKP]

37. They kind of set that up, Bush/Cheney et al, on their way out.

They scuttled the ship of state, robbed the bank, set the house on fire, then hit the highway leaving Obama to clean up the mess.

Now they sit around blaming him for all that they caused to happen.

Unbelievable.

[MH1]

39. Exactly.

[Pirate Smile]

47. Great description.

[blank space]

79. They had no idea who would win.

So it - as a plan is ridiculous.

Secondly, how many Democrats voted for these wars ? Patriot acts ?

Thirdly, time to get your head around the fact that the bedrock of libral politics globally, and especially Democrats, is neo-liberalism.

Sorry, but thats the absolute truth, and neo-liberalism is utterly destroying the US, Europe etc.

Protecting jobs can only be done through destroying globalization of the work force - not going to happen.

The left wing believes in a bigger spread of taxes in order to spread the burden, while the right believes in user pays - at the end of the day, they both believe in globalization and destruction of trade barriers for free trade and the expansion of corporate power to increase the collective cake - they will both destroy America equally - that is the very, stark reality - Obama is just as bad - the only difference is he will use a pillow to kill your dreams, while the Republicans will use a gun - which is worse ?

[Pirate Smile]

46. The first term wasn't wasted. They got a ton of good legislation passed during the first two years -

Saved the US Automobile Industry, HCR, Student Loan reform, Wall Street Reform, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, a huge Food Safety bill, DADT repealed, two new progressive, female (one Hispanic) Justices, huge increases in fuel mileage standards for both cars and trucks, killed OBL, will be out of Iraq, helped get rid of Ghaddafi, Start Treaty, .... That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

We all knew little to nothing would get done other then playing defense once Republicans took over in '10.

[Hissyspit]

26. The second term isn't for making sure the other party doesn't get the third term?

With your follow up candidate?

Actually the second term is usually for dealing with the backlash of all the disasters from the first term when we were trying to make sure we got the second term.

[joshcryer]

28. If you kick ass that shouldn't be a problem.

[jeff47]

97. Then why not kick ass in the first term?

If "kicking ass" is the metric by which you ensure your party holds the White House, why put it off into the second term?

[NYC_SKP]

36. There's some of that, too. But as regards Individual Accomplishments as a President...

I think the right strategy would be to build capacity and strength in the first term and then, assuming you have a major plan to kick ass (like say Medicare for All), you do the big career-ending things in term 2.

But I have my doubts, I really do, if these things will come to pass.

[Arctic Dave]

43. Nice theory but no really true.

In the second term you will start to hear the, "we can't ruin it for the next candidate". Continuity, blah, blah, blah, next time, yadda, yadda, yadda.

[hughee99]

48. I've always felt if you kick ass in your first term, you'll get a second term. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

61. That would be true if everybody though like we do, but mostly they do not.

Mostly, they care about TeeVee and sports and fashion and makeup and cars and clothes.

:shrug:

[onpatrol98]

160. I feel like IF you kick butt in the first term, you WON'T get a second term

BUT...if it's about America and not you...you won't care. I say you won't get a second term, not because the American people will hate you...but rather because the media and corporations will hate you. And, when the press coverage turns...you're doomed.

It doesn't really matter who ends up in the White House UNLESS they go in not giving a heck about a second term. Maybe, not even wanting a second term.

We need someone who goes in WITHOUT an eye to his/her legacy. Just wanting to do the job of the people...and that person (thanks in small part to the media) will never get the coverage to get off the ground.

The media and/or corporate money picks the president. Without good media attention, you're doomed even if you're wealthy. You won't get favorable press coverage, you won't get interviews, the American people won't get to know who you are. Or, worse. The media deems you unworthy and silly and after they portray every misquote and misdeed as idiocy or incompetence on steroids, the American public picks up the mantra and a decent candidate is drummed out of the running. And, other decent candidates don't even try.

I was a huge Bill Clinton fan. But, when he was signing NAFTA, I didn't think it was a big deal. It wasn't until later that I realize it was just another nail in the coffin of the American middle class. Sometimes the valuable or disastrous results of a president's term doesn't become noticeable until years later. But, if as a President, you're focusing on winning re-election, you're not really focusing on the long term needs of the country. Just, your own short term ones. No wonder we've been in the process of killing the country since we formed it.

[paulk]

67. where does the ass- whooping the Democrats got in 2010

fit into this theory?

[KoKo]

72. Which Dems have "Kicked Ass" in your memory in Second Term, though???

As I remember it.. Carter didn't get a Second Term nor did LBJ or JFK.

Clinton got a second term and the legislation that went down was: Repeal of "Glass-Steagall Act" which led to the deregulation that caused the Banking/Housing/SEC/FANNY MAY/FREDDIE MAC CRISIS that Obama inherited when the Housing Bubble Imploded and Bankers held us Hostage during the last days of election 2008.

Then, there was the "Telecommunications Act of 1996 (I think that's correct...but it was second term) which further allowed Faux News/Limbaugh/Clearchannel and the rest of the crap to survive and grow that we have to live with on our Air Time and Cable Channels today.

That's on top of NAFTA and other things in his first term..

THEN...there was the STARR Investigation...where Clinton was found to have done some "dirty stuff with cigars" in the room of the Oval Office that went on and on and on and on.

This doesn't even mention the other dereg stuff Clinton did Second Term ...while he was "understress" from Ken Starr where he gave away the rest of the American Store to the Repugs.

I think we definitely need to be concerned about where Obama goes in his Second Term...given the track record of the only one who managed to get elected to a second term who still seems very influential in the Obama Admnistration.

Just saying.....Just saying......If you think carefully about this...

[swilton]

77. ++

[nineteen50]

85. Once you give away the store what's left?

[The Doctor.]

90. I've been feeling it too.

What's really cool is knowing that I've been right far more than wrong.

This is one of those few things I'll be glad to be right about.

[Ken Burch]

92. Doesn't work that way, though

Jimmy Carter spent his whole first term refusing to kick ass. Then he got his ass kicked in '80(and he would have even if Teddy HADN'T run...as everyone should admit by now).

FDR DID kick ass in his first term, and won big time(unfortunately, FDR pissed away the 1936 landslide by embracing the pointless goal of a balanced budget in 1937, a choice that caused the 1937 recession).

Clinton would've beaten Dole in '96 no matter what...he never had to be anti-liberal and anti-poor to do it(and he damn sure didn't have to fight to pass NAFTA, since 70% of the people were against it).

It's hard to see how Obama would do anything in a second term other than keep sliding further and further towards the suites and away from the streets.

If he's not on our side now...why would he change that later?

[Maraya1969]

94. From what I read on this forum Obama is not going to have a second term

Way too many people just love to slash and burn him every time they get the chance. I feel like they are trying to get a republican in the white house and my fear is that they will be successful.

[Taft_Bathtub]

106. Or it could be that he's been a disastrous president

that has sold out liberals on every major piece of legislation while actively protecting the rich who destroyed the economy.

No, it's just a bunch of people that hate Obama, that's it.

[jeff47]

96. Your theory has a major flaw

Being a doormat during your first term guarantees a hostile Congress in your second term. So you get to keep being a doormat.

[Taft_Bathtub]

105. My theory is you're delusional

Obama's not a liberal, he's a Republican and he'll sell you out in the second term as well.

But I doubt he's getting reelected. 9.1% unemployment and a completely ruined liberal base? Have fun building houses with Jimmy Carter.

[cliffordu]

112. Yep, yep, yeppers.....indeed....

[BlueCaliDem]

132. Exactly. eom

[fasttense]

139. Then why did Clinton pass some of the most un-progressive legislation

in the history of the Democratic party during his 2nd term?

Such as: November 3, 1998: Securities Litigation Uniform Standards Act (reduced the ability of people to sue for securities fraud).

November 12, 1999: Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act

December 21, 2000: Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000

Not to mention he reduced capital gains tax and increase the exemption for taxes on estates.

[MattSh]

142. It would make a lot more sense...

to do everything you really want to do in the first term and then let the voters decide.

Run around in circles your first term, accomplish little, piss off everybody who voted for you, and then hope for a second term to do what you really want to do? Really? If that's true, this administration is more f*cked up than even I could have imagined.

[SusanaMontana41]

165. A second term also is a lame-duck term.

But I like your interpretation better.

[WDIM]

174. If they wanted that....

They'd already be kicking ass... They won't get a second term if they don't start kicking ass!
The people elected him for his policies and his promises. What promise has he come through with? That is why people are so dissatisfied. He is not doing what we elected him to do! He is doing what the republicans want him to do.

Mr. President
Go back to 2008 look at the promises you said you'd keep and keep them!

[savannah43]

176. Or, the second term is for doing just what your

corporate sponsors want you to do without fear of any repercussions.

[totodeinhere]

180. Usually once a president's second term starts their power starts to wane.

They are instant lame ducks. You might think that since they don't have to worry about reelection they will have freedom to do what they want to without worrying about how it will affect their reelection. But during recent two term presidencies it hasn't worked out that way. From Nixon on two term presidents have had trouble in their second terms. Nixon resigned during his second term, Reagan saw the Iran Contra scandal almost bring down his presidency, Clinton was impeached, and shrub had some of the lowest approval ratings in the history of the presidency and saw the economy totally meltdown toward the end of his second term.

I hope that President Obama can break the recent trend and have a successful second term, but history is not on his side.

[yurbud]

195. that's the opposite of what happened with W and Reagan and..

Nixon for that matter.

For Dems like Bill Clinton, the second term was about surviving to the end.

LBJ thought he could placate Wall Street with a war in exchange for progressive policies at home, and voters just noticed the war and denied him a second term.

[flamingdem]

201. Oh I hope our fellow countrypeople get a CLUE and vote heavily for the Dems nt

[elleng]

3. GREAT NEWS!!!

Kick A**, Joe!!!

[stevedeshazer]

4. ' Bout time, Uncle Joe. 'Bout damn time.

He's been sporting a muzzle for too long.

[hlthe2b]

5. I love Joe....

I know I will be ripped to shreds for stating what some might be thinking, but I earned the right with the 1000 or more people I personally canvassed on behalf of Barack Obama and the countless hours I spent on that campaign....

That said, I sometimes wonder how different this administration might have been and our current situation, had Joe Biden (not HRC or BO) gotten the nomination... The fact is that these RETHUGS in Senate and House have a harder time being so damned nasty to Biden, who most have known for many many years.

But before you unleash the fires of hell on me for putting voice to that thought, I did hear President Obama's speech today on labor and am cautiously optimistic he might be able to start the long process of turning this whole clusterf..k around. We shall see. And, I'm glad if Biden is now "unleashed."

[hedgehog]

8. Joe Biden can get out there and said what needs to be said

with the advantage of offering plausible deniability if there is a need to walk back the rhetoric.

[hfojvt]

18. way I heard it

was Biden was the one who urged Obama to cave on the Bush tax cuts.

As such, I am not a big fan any more.

[gateley]

24. He also advised Obama against escalating in Afghanistan -

he's got some positive and negatives, but in my mind, the positives are more numerous.

[gateley]

21. I agree -- I think it would have been much different because

he knows the Players better -- in DC and Internationally. He was my first choice -- my "plan" was to have a Biden/Obama ticket so Obama could get his chops during the Biden presidency and slide into the WH in 2016. :7

BUT -- not Joe, or anybody else, could have garnered the world-wide support and enthusiasm that Obama did, and we sure needed that after Bush had help us to become even MORE globally loathed.

It would have been interesting watching him and McCain because they ARE friends, and Joe is excruciatingly loyal.

I also think if the American people would have LISTENED to him, as they would have had to had he gotten the nomination, they'd be won over like I was.

But since it didn't turn out well for Joe, I'm very glad and reassured he's the VP. I know Obama listens to him (like he took time to weigh Joe's advice to NOT surge in Afghanistan) and I'm sure he's been invaluable to O thus far.

[woodsprite]

38. I'm with you. He was my first choice.

I feel that he's been on a tight rein during this term. I hope he does kick ass and get the party fired up. Obama has done some good things, but nobody is talk about them. The Dems aren't singing praises. He's done remarkably well since he only had a Dem majority for less than 2 months. THAT's what needs to change!

[PatSeg]

64. I have thought the same thing

Though there would have been many of the same problems, but it surely would have been harder for republicans to go after Biden the way they've gone after Obama.

Biden unleashed will be a joy to watch.

[dionysus]

93. i like joe too, but you'd be hearing "president MBNA" instead of "cave! cave! apeaser!"

[gateley]

178. I know. But maybe he could do something to turn that around

without harming the jobs in Delaware?

[CherokeeDem]

6. Go Joe!!!

I love me some Biden!!!!!!!


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :kick:

[gulliver]

9. I do look forward to what happens after Labor Day

I just have a feeling we are going to see some fireworks from the Dem side. We need something to really, really rile up the Tea Party. Obama's logic and race, coupled with the barely stifled memory of the Bush/GOP failures they share blame for should make the Tea Party quite a spectacle. Remember, they want to admit they ordered the Code Red. We need them frothing.

[Robb]

11. "Not an applause line. You are the only folks keeping the barbarians at the gate!"

"The other side has declared war on labor's house and it's about time we stand up!"

Watch: http://youtu.be/kJXduIrDDM4

[MrTriumph]

23. Hey, Joe, we have been standing up. You? You've been supporting job killin' trade deals.

[JoeyT]

100. +1

We're supposed to pretend those don't exist, though.

It's uh divisive to acknowledge disastrous policy. The only thing that works is to defend it and renegotiate it later, like we did with NAFTA. Wait, wait, bad example...

[PatSeg]

62. I made the mistake of reading the comments

and most of them are pretty brutal. These people have no idea how much unions have contributed to their lives.

[War Horse]

12. Sounds promising

Up and at 'em!

[Buns_of_Fire]

13. Biden Unchained!

(Starring Steve Reeves. Opening next Friday at a theater near you.)

[pinboy3niner]

15. That's what I'd call a BFD!

:woohoo:

[Electric Monk]

19. Let's just hope he doesn't put his foot in his mouth, as he's been known to do on occasion.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2838420&page=1
http://wallofshamearchives.blogspot.com/2006/08/joe-bidens-foot-in-mouth-disease.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acpiBYxh3fw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWSGmruN4Xo

Just some examples found with a quick google.

[gateley]

25. Your point? If he does, he does - does that affect his actions? nt

[TK421]

192. that is why he has the nickname "foot-in-mouth Biden" around here

[gateley]

27. K&R for my Joe! Thanks for posting this!! nt

[xchrom]

29. While you're at it - lobby your buddies to repeal that awful

Bankruptcy law.

[Unvanguard]

30. Kind of sad that we've forgotten about that one.

I've never been able to be a fan of Biden, for that reason among others.

[Fuddnik]

31. I haven't forgotten it.

I have a sister and BIL (Republicans, no less) who have been living under it (barely) for almost four years now.

[Unvanguard]

34. I know lots of people haven't.

More referring to how it's mostly disappeared from public political discussion, and also to how people forget that Biden supported it.

[gateley]

33. I'm a big Biden supporter but this is one of the things I agree

with anti-Biden people about. To be fair, the industry is his State's biggest employer, he was over a barrel and did fight to put some good stuff in the bill, but still... :(

[xchrom]

41. I'll never forget it. Nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

144. +1000000!

:thumbsup:

[cascadiance]

159. That's always been my sentiment about Joe, which is why I never could support him.

Him being selected VP was my first clue to Obama's being more corporatist than he showed during the 2008 campaign.

[gateley]

32. Wow - lots of anti-labor/anti-Obama/anti-Joe and racist comments! Is

The Hill a RW publication? For some reason I thought it was kind of liberal, but I never really delved into it.

I just hate seeing such hatred and judgment coming from fellow Americans. We sure have a lot of ugly people here. :(

[Broderick]

151. So many have crawled out of the woodwork

emboldened by polling etc etc.

[PatSeg]

155. Damn, those comments are off the wall

I kind of doubt they are all real though. They sound too much like right-wing sound bites. I think there are some paid trolls over there.

[a kennedy]

40. "I am about to be let loose," Yikes, I almost thought he meant

that he wasn't going to be the VP next go around..... misread that. :blush:

[pinboy3niner]

42. LOL!

I think that's "let go." :rofl:

[MilesColtrane]

44. Go for some Republican leg meat, Joe!

[TwilightGardener]

54. LOL--perfect!

[Ruby the Liberal]

45. Release the Biden!

:applause:

[TK421]

51. lol! someone needs to do a photoshop of this!

[ChiciB1]

52. I've Been One Who Always Thought Biden Was (Was) One Of The GOOD ONES...

These days, even though I live in Florida... I say SHOW ME!

I'm SICK of speeches, slogans, words and MAKE BELIEVE wishes!! JUST Eff-ing SHOW ME! Words will NO LONGER keep me hanging on!

I've said up until as recently as maybe yesterday that I will HOLD MY NOSE and vote for Obama, but now I'm not so sure! I've really had it and am at my lowest point ever. I NEED ACTION, real action. No more words, nor more promises, nor more "pretty speeches" just down in the gutter ACTION! I'm seriously, and really seriously thinking that I in fact WON'T vote for the lesser of TWO EVILS!

Bile has been building up in my gut for so long now that an ulcer would almost be a welcome! SHIT or get the "F" off the pot! My vote isn't something that ANYONE can take for granted, and I don't give a rat's ass what anyone here our OUT there thinks anymore!

I'M ABSOLUTELY AND TOTALLY FED UP! NO MAS! I'm done with the games and DONE with the APATHY! I'm a died in the wool DEMOCRAT and NOT this SHIT that has been masquerading itself as The Democratic Party of today. If that means I'm going to BE an interloper than SO-BE-IT! I've really HAD IT and I no longer care about what anyone else thinks! I've works for years and years as a Democratic supporter, and what's been handed to me lately looks NOTHING like what I signed up for as a TRUE DEMOCRAT! Say what you will... I could give a rat's ass what anyone thinks! I think I've finally reached my breaking point and can no longer keep playing this STUPID game!

MY LIFE and the lives of those I love IS NOT FOR SALE! And yes, I do feel that I'm going to get TS'ed from here now, but I NO LONGER think it matters. Ban me, I'll go elsewhere, but what I THINK is IN FACT very important. GAME IS OVER! GYST or count me out!

[mazzarro]

53. How quickly we forgot that Biden was the one that gave G.W.Bush cover for his Iraq war

With his sham Senate Foreign Relations hearing when he refused to allow war opponents to testify and basically packed the hearing with pro-war experts. I have, since then, never trusted him and his politics.

[ChiciB1]

65. S0000000000, I Blinked, Got Frozen From THE FLASH! IT IS NOW TIME...

TIME that we ALL start waking up. I freely admit I very probably contributed to THE PROBLEM, but as I said, I'm really positively and in with ALL FOURS ready to FIGHT back!

No longer will I be passive in my thinking, wishing that TPTB will see the light! NOW, I AM the light, and if that means I'm out of the "today" Democratic Party circle, then I REALLY don't care. THEY will have to WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO me!

My pent up frustration has reached a boiling point. Anyone here who is with me or against me no longer matters! I DON'T feel a need to persuade you or anyone! I am who I am, I believe what I believe and I AM NOT going to go along to get along!

JUST Effing SCREW this STUPID politic game! I'm big enough to admit that I have been wrong, but I suppose I'm ready to FLY SOLO!

FAREWELL TO FRUSTRATION! I will go down holding my head HIGH! It has become that severe for me, and THIS country had better WAKE-UP! And I'm not even sure if it's not already TOO LATE!

I'm out of here for now because I have a previous engagement, but I KNOW what MY HEART feels! I want to WIN the game, NOT simply PLAY the game. And if that means I'm completely ostracized, you know I no longer care. I care about looking at myself in the mirror, win or lose and knowing that I stand for what I BELIEVE!

[Angry Dragon]

76. He also let SCJ thomas slide

[eilen]

138. Justice Clarence Thomas. Nothing else to say. nt

[swilton]

81. +++++

I'm no longer holding my breath or raising my expectations for anything beyond the empty rhetoric from this administration....there is too much evidence to the contrary beginning with the appointed staff, many of whom have legacies in Republican administrations and ensured continuation of GOP policies....Then to add insult to injury took the public option off the table, worked with the pharmaceutical industries behind closed doors to perpetuate their monopoly on drug costs, gutted the clean air regulations, expanded free trade agreements, social security/medicare and tax cuts beneficial to the middle class have been nominated for restructuring...These measures go beyond any Republicans wildest dreams.

Go on Joe, sound tough! Perhaps while your acting so gallant in defending the middle class with your rhetoric you'll stay away from your office and do less substantive damage with your policies.

[DearAbby]

55. Turn him loose!

[TwilightGardener]

56. OK, that fat kitteh is adorable.

[DearAbby]

59. fat kittah hooked on popcorn

washed down with some nice creamy milk.

[Brigid]

116. Fat Kitteh is unhealthy.

Yes, the pic is funny. But that cat probably has one very unhappy vet.

[Brigid]

113. Looks like that cat has been eating too much of that popcorn!

:rofl:

Seriously, I'll bet that cat's staff has been getting reamed by his vet about his weight.

[ThomWV]

63. two and a half years too late.

[proud patriot]

66. Woo Hoo !

[philly_bob]

71. Things about to get interesting! Go Joe! (nt)

[MissDeeds]

69. "Biden said

that in the upcoming presidential campaign he will be fighting for nothing less than the survival of the American working class."

Thank God someone in this administration is.

[senseandsensibility]

70. Let's hope he's serious, and let's hope the corporate media

cover his efforts instead of calling them "gaffes."

[rucky]

74. I was there today

it was pretty awesome.

[PatSeg]

153. Cool, its always better in person

:hi:

[swilton]

75. Blah, Blah, Blah

Actions speak louder....

[peace frog]

146. Exactamundo

So what if Biden is speaking out now? What, he was muzzled for the last 3 years, that's supposed to inspire confidence now? Puhleeze.

If you mean it, do it. Otherwise STFU.

[TK421]

191. sadly, I have to agree with you on this one n/t

[Joe Fields]

78. It saddens me to see the knee-jerk reaction here over one lousy Labor Day speech.

They are just words, which haven't been met by any action to help the working class in over two years.

Flowery, fiery words to re-energize a base that this administration knows damned well it is losing in droves.

So now, it is clear. Just like Nixon used the Vietnam war to gain re-election, Obama is going to use the economy and the war on the middle class to win a second term. When he clearly had a mandate to do this in his first term.

Bullshit on that.

[James48]

80. Question- what would happen if......

What would happen if Joe Biden suddenly announced he is running for President in 2012, and he is NOT resigning the Vice-Presidency?

I don't think there is a precedence of a sitting VP jumping ship and running against his boss.


But then again, when we've had sitting democrats in the past, they've actually been democrats, not republicans.


What do you think? If Joe jumped and opened an opposition campaign, what would happen?

[OwnedByFerrets]

82. Time to start making those promises AGAIN??

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me

[nineteen50]

84. Where has he been?

Getting paid.

[orbitalman]

88. K & R

[Beacool]

91. Oh Joe, not that again................

How did that "summer of recovery" work?

:eyes:

[SwampG8r]

121. i cracked up when i read

" in the upcoming presidential campaign he will be fighting"
so during campaigns they can fight? not before? not after?

[Beacool]

154. Hi, Gator!!!

I like Joe, he's a decent guy. But Joe is not exactly someone who excites the masses. He and Dodd barely got a few thousand votes in IA and dropped right away from the primaries. Fairly or not, Biden has a reputation for having foot in mouth disease. The media portrays him as a goofball.

Besides, as you pointed out, both he and Obama will start fighting for jobs now when they are up for reelection? What happened during the prior 3 years?

:(




:hi:

[Skittles]

98. NO THANKS

[aikoaiko]

102. Yes, let loose and protect the banks some more from "Bankruptcy Abuse"

Thanks, Joe.

[russspeakeasy]

103. The place has already been raped and pillaged.

:wtf: Thanks for showing up Joe. Turn off the lights when you leave.

[SunDrop23]

104. why the hell has he waited for three years? (nfm)

[WheelWalker]

110. What I've learned is that if you're a lightning rod, stongly positive and strongly negative,

it only means you're effective. Go Joe.

[salib]

111. Yeah yeah teah

Sure.

[gkhouston]

114. More likely, "I am about to be cut loose." n/t

[DeSwiss]

115. What. A. Load. Of. Bullshit! n/t

[Divine Discontent]

118. about to be? huh? wouldn't you have been fighting for the survival of the working class before the

election season kicks up? I guess this is just Joe being Joe.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

123. So, what, or who, was holding him back up until now?

His DLC connections?

[AllyCat]

127. Really? Where have you been for the past 2.5 yrs sir?

We've had a Democratic anti-union onslaught for all that time? Did you notice?

[Lorien]

129. No kidding. Like an abusive husband who keeps beating his wife

but tells her he loves her when he wants dinner prepared. :eyes:

[defendandprotect]

130. What about stopping Obama and Arne Duncan's "anti-union onslaught" ... ???

[Sherman A1]

131. we will see

the proof is in the pudding. Nice speeches at this point really don't impress me too much.

[Skittles]

135. we have ALREADY seen

:thumbsdown:

[Scurrilous]

136. K & R

:thumbsup:

[bowens43]

137. There will be no fight for the working class whileObama Obama is president

It's pretty obvious that Obama despises the working class.

[Faith No More]

140. You have basically spit in labor's eye all this time and now you're going to do something.

Give me a break. You know you've pissed labor off and now you need their support. We've heard this song and dance before.

[The Wizard]

141. Embrace class warfare because

"They got the guns we got the numbers."

[bread_and_roses]

143. Let lose to do what?

Pretend to support workers while making more deals with his Bankster Buds? Color me not impressed - I haven't forgotten the Bankruptcy Bill, among other issues.

[SixthSense]

145. It's more like let loose like what

I'm guessing we're not going to be fortunate enough to get a simple SBD

[bread_and_roses]

149. LOL, ty - I should have seen that

... not enough coffee yet when I posted that, obviously. Alas, I do not know what SBD is? Should I?

[SixthSense]

152. sorry I'm being a bit juvenile

SBD = "silent but deadly"

[Romulox]

148. Jesus. I hope he's not working on a new Bankruptcy bill! nt

[woo me with science]

157. MBNA Joe.

We have SEEN whose side you are on.

Welcome to election season. Time to dig out the hip boots.

[liberal N proud]

164. Let him loose already

We need some of his candidness right NOW!

[spanone]

168. the msm has been selling cheney's book, they can't be bothered by a sitting VP

[geardaddy]

170. Too many beans at the picnic Joe?

I'm glad you finally spoke up. Even if it's a little late.

[msanthrope]

172. I was gonna suggest daily fiber... nt

[Autumn]

188. About time Joe. Must be campaign season. n/t

[flamingdem]

200. fantastic! go joe! nt

[ooglymoogly]

202. That's right Joe

You and your boss have this politics thing down pat. Campaign from a weak alter ego in pretend mode, to cover for the all powerful id that controls all, in the soulless political mind, usually know as the common pugthug....unless it is masquerading in complete deceit, as a Democrat, pretending to hold the commonly held beliefs encapsulated in the phrase, "the most good for all mankind" and not just the rich who can gratify and further your own self interests.

[KOfan]

203. Good!

It's about time to get after the son of bitches..don't back down!