***READ IT AND WEEP: Proof POSITIVE the RW Lie machine is channeling the Nazis!!***

[tom_paine]

Hyperbole? Over-the-top nonsense?

Hold on there, let's take a look at this Nazi article/pamphlet from 1932, late Weimar. About where we are now, relatively speaking.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/journailleluegt.htm

In comfort and ease, the Red party hacks set themselves up after the successful “revolt” of 9 November 1918 in the quarters of the capitalism they had so attacked.

The nice, warm spoils system took in the army of party hacks and lesser dignitaries, allowing the top comrades to take up the promised life “of beauty and dignity.”

The Social Democratic war profiteer and big swindler Parvus-Helphand resided in the
Schwanenwerder Palace. There he met the illustrious leaders of the workers’ party,
Scheidemann, Bauer, Wels, Gradenauer, Heilmann, etc.

The leaders of the exploited masses — Police President Richter, for example — accepted gold toothpicks and elegant sleeping gowns from big Jewish swindlers.

The Red party hacks promised the working people heaven on earth...

<snip>

...We can demonstrate the accuracy of these Magdeburg directives by the following citations from Vorwärts :

“Our most damaging attack on this society is to brand it at every opportunity as the slave of business...” (Vorwärts, Nr .5, 4.1.1931)

“The republic needs to be led by republicans who will shrink from nothing!” (Vorwärts, Nr. 565, 3,12.1931)

“They (the SPD, editor) will take allies in this battle wherever it can find them...” (Vorwärts, Nr. 547, 22.11.1931)

“We have only one enemy, the Right!” (Vorwärts, Nr. 547, 22.11.1931)

“We will take help anywhere we can find it.” (Vorwärts, Nr. 547, 22.11.1931)

Lie: Reaction!

With a great deal of noise and a lot of wasted ink, the Red benefactors of the people accuse the Nazis of being evil reactionaries.

When the National Socialist movement was in its beginnings, the Red papers sneered at it as an insignificant offshoot of the German National Party. That will not work any longer, for even the most stubborn Marxist realizes that this is something new, a movement following its own victorious ideas. If the NSDAP had been only an offshoot of the German Nationalists, it would never have achieved such great success. Its rise, which shows that new, revolutionary elements are at work, refutes the myth of the “reactionary” Nazis better than all the speeches. </i>

Complete with faked footnotes, JUST LIKE our own RW Authors! Notice how the Nazis happily self-identify as "the Right" (enemy of the evil Lefty Socialists who's paper the Nazis are quoting as enemies)

Wow, eh?

More at: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/journailleluegt.htm

Read the rest of it. Note the cadences, the choice of language, the bullying, the arrogance, the high-toned Glenn Beck/Sean Hannity "we're above the fray, not the violent dishonest barbarians but the ones opposing the violent dishonest barbarians."

Insane railing against Red Party Hacks and Social Democrats. Almost NO DIFFERENCE between Repugs and Nazis in their choice of hate speech targets. My God, the economy of words one would need to tranform this wholly into a demented Michelle Malkin or Rush Limbaugh rant VERBATIM. Just change Jews to liberals and a few other things!

Hitler was a Leftist? The nazis rail against socialism EXACTLY as much as the RW
Lie Machine does and in EXACTLY the same tone in this and other late Weimar articles. I mean, I knew they were close, but this is ridiculous!

Been saying it for 10 years this was coming one day. This and worse. Been saying we were living in Weimar. Try reading this article all the way through and then telling me they don't sound EXACTLY like our RW Lie Machine.

Am I wrong here? Read the article and let me know.

[The Magistrate]

1. No Question There Is Similarity In Propaganda Tactics, Sir

Though this does not necessarily amount to identity in other areas. Give several engineers the same suite of materials and the same task, and their designs will show great similarity, since what works works, and is known to work by students of a subject. Granted the initial need of taking and holding power will be shared by all political movements, what they intend to do with the power, and what they may conceive themselves to be intending to do with the power, will not necessarily be the same: similar means do not indicate identical aims.

[tom_paine]

3. I agree with your logic, however did you read the article slowly and thoroughly or just skim it?

This is not a mere similarity, sir. This is far more than I ever imagined, as I haven't examined late Weimar propaganda directly since I read some history books which reprinted some articles.

This is IDENTICAL in almost every way, tone, style, cadenence, meter, theme even the players are the SAME. Nazis on the Right, proudly, socialists and liberal Social Democrats on the Left. Note the Nazis falsely conflate the Libs with Socialists, too.

IDENTICAL, sir. 99% IDENTICAL. I am floored, myself.

If you haven't read the article yet, please do so slowly and thoroughly.

If you already have read it, please rad it again, Sir, slowly and thoroughly.

Then please tell me whether you agree with 99% IDENTICAL, and if not, why. Certainly at least 90% identical, all aspects considered.

I will be very interested to hear your feedback after you have read it again.

99% IDENTICAL. Wow.

[The Magistrate]

6. My Favorite Among My Editions Of Mein Kampf, Sir

Is one prepared by a body of U.S. liberals in 1938, in which they argue with the man page by page in footnotes, and include large extracts of speeches and pamphlet texts for examination separately. This is one my areas. But the rules are the same; Hitler claimed to have learned the art from Lenin and the English in the First World War. What you display here is how it is done, by people who are serious about doing it. Effective propaganda from the left against the plutocrats would look very much the same.

[tom_paine]

7. OK. We agree to disagree, Sir, but I must say that I disagree with you STRONGLY

It is one thing to point out similarities, yes, and everything you say is true about propaganda in general.

But you can still read that article, so very very VERY closely paralleling our own RW Lie Machine, that it doesn't qualify as a step above the mere similarity shared by all propagandas?

Just asking. Again, I don't wish to wrangle over it, and we can happily agree to disagree.

But, Magistrate, REALLY? You REALLY think the similarities between what was said then by the RW and what is said now by the RW can be adequately described by something of a glib, generalized comparison, which is what you gave, in my opinion. No offense, but that wasn't exactly your most thoughtful, deep thorough explanation that I've ever seen, is it? Go deeper, please, Sir.

And if you go deeper and still find yourself unchanged and unmoved, so be it. We respectfully disagree and go on our merry ways.

But before doing so, please answer my question, of REALLY?

I hope you are well, Sir :hi:

[The Magistrate]

10. A Couple Of Points, Sir

First, in dealing with a translation, one never knows whether elements of rhythm and sound are the product of the translator or the original. The matter is of some importance, because these are very significant in producing emotional effect, which is much of the point of propaganda.

Second, do not imagine that professional propagandists do not study the works of the Nazis and the other masters of the totalitarian age. The analysis in Mein Kampf of how to move a mass of voters is insightful, and useful, though not unique. There is, to my mind, nothing particularly arresting about seeing similarities in marketing campaigns; they are to be expected. Marketing is a task, to which a certain suite of tools can be turned, with intent of moving some number of people to a particular course of action, whether purchasing a product or hating a sort of person, or whatever the desired action might be. The size of the group one desires to move, and the 'hook' by which it is to be moved, account for most of the differences in marketing campaigns: a campaign aimed to sell a luxury good to a small number of people will look different than one aimed to convince many people they can have something good more cheaply; a campaign aimed to move people to feel they will be taken as of a higher social standing than they really are if they buy a product will look different than one aiming to move people to feel they will be one of the regular people everybody likes if they buy a product. But this is no more than saying a battle fought against a regiment will be appear different from one fought against a corps, or that an assault on a force arrayed along a high ridge will be conducted differently than one against a force ensconced in a series of ravines. One political marketing campaign aimed to move people animated by hatred and resentment and a feeling they have not only lost but been cheated of what they deserved when they did, focusing on people who have a little more than many and want above all not to lose that small bit that elevates them above the lower depths, will look very like another aimed at the same target and motivations for action. There have been quite a few of these, after all.

[hootinholler]

9. An interesting sounding tome Sir

Being an area in which you have expertise, would you say the Nazis were innovative in their adoption of their methods, or from whence did they model them?

-Hoot

[The Magistrate]

12. Not An Easy Question, Sir

In some ways they were far from innovative. The power of Anti-Semitism in popular politics at the time was demonstrated before Hitler's eyes by Karl Leuger, the Viennese mayor before World War One, and various elements of Pan-Gemanism and militarism were ready to hand. Violence as a means of influencing politics is hardly new, no more than the techniques of demagoguery are.

In other ways, they were quite innovative. Hitler and his cohorts understood exploitation of modern contrivances such as radio and moving pictures, and used these tools to great effect. There is necessarily an element of innovation in tactical flexibility, which Hitler certainly displayed in the chaotic period of the Weimar Republic.

[hootinholler]

16. It seems the older I get Sir, the harder the questions I ponder. Prehaps then

This might inform us our next charismatic leader should be born from cyberspace or perhaps video games. In essence, the Nazis were cutting edge hoodlums, if you'll pardon the pun.

At what point in your opinion did Hitler recognize his potential or had his sights set on ruling?

-Hoot

[The Magistrate]

19. Cutting-Edge Hoodlums, Sir, Is Quite Apt

If there is a revolution in future, it will certainly be carried out by people who know their computers inside and out.

The story Hitler told is that he had a sort of epiphany in the last days of World War One, while a gas casualty in hospital, that tied in to several narrow escapes from death (the man spent almost the whole of the war on the front line, starting with First Ypres in a volunteer unit which took such high casualties its attack there was referred to even in war-time Germany as the "Children's Slaughter'), and left him convinced he was Germany's saviour, destined to the task. Hard to argue with, and there is almost nothing reliably known about his adulthood prior to the war, besides its broadest outline of 'down and out in Vienna and Munich'.

[hootinholler]

21. To change the subject a little

Has there ever arisen a white knight in history?

Could one arise now?

-Hoot

[The Magistrate]

23. In The Modern Era, Sir, There Was Roosevelt

Hell, there was even the Kingfish....

[hootinholler]

25. Ah, Thanks for that refresher...

Setting aside the anti Fed sentiments, this excerpt sounds like the root of the Tea Party litany of fears.

Long created the Share Our Wealth program in 1934 with the motto "Every Man a King", proposing new wealth redistribution measures in the form of a net asset tax on corporations and individuals to curb the poverty and hopelessness endemic nationwide during the Great Depression. To stimulate the economy, Long advocated federal spending on public works, schools and colleges, and old age pensions. He was an ardent critic of the Federal Reserve System's policies. Charismatic and immensely popular for his programs and willingness to take forceful action, Long was accused by his opponents of dictatorial tendencies for his near-total control of the state government.

Surprising that the media puppeteers can motivate them when they have little of the things he proposed taxing. A testament to the aforementioned motivational sciences.

-Hoot

[The Magistrate]

27. The Old Biography By Professor Williams, Sir, 'Huey Long', Remains The Best Introduction To The Man

As you may guess, the old rogue has some appeal for me....

[Swamp Rat]

2. Dubya's grandfather Prescott Bush was a real Nazi who enriched his family with blood money.

[hootinholler]

17. How someone convicted under the trading with the enemy act

Got elected to the senate is beyond me.

-Hoot

[Oilwellian]

20. And....

Poppy is so fondly remembered for his work as a legislature in the field of eugenics. I live in a state that sterilized the retarded during the 1970's.

[Swamp Rat]

24. Oilwellian!

:hi::hug::loveya:

[Oilwellian]

26. Awww Swampy, smooches back atcha

What a fine mess we're in, eh? I'm so glad to see you here, still fighting the good fight. I was just kicking myself for not being a little more personal in my response to your post. So I came back to do just that and wow! What a sweet response back from you! Oh, and, :loveya: MORE!! :hi: Thank you for posting one of my all time favorite works of art. :rofl:

[Cleita]

4. Anybody who has read up on the Nazis can't help

seeing the similarities and parallels of what is going on today. I think this is why they like to condemn anyone who brings it up. It's too close to the truth of what they are.

[The Magistrate]

5. Permit Me, Sir, To Take This Opportunity To Answer An Earlier Question You Posed Elsewhere

There are some similarities that come to mind between our present pass and periods of our country's history. The 'tea-baggers' are reminiscent of the rise of the Ku Klux Klan in the period after the Great War. The extent of that, from its Southern homeland into areas like Pennsylvania and Ohio and Indiana, is instructive. It is clear that it appealed to a similar slice of the people, and did so in a similar way. One hall-mark of the time was resurgence of nativist feeling, a sense that the 'old stock' was being swamped by 'others' who did not and could not share 'American' values. The immigrants were southern and eastern Europeans and Jews, many Catholic, who were considered not quite white in the view of people who considered themselves of Anglo-Saxon stock. It was also a time in which wealth was concentrating quickly at the top, with people working harder but getting no more for it, and clear indications monied interests had a stranglehold on government, and some spectacular corruption in consequence. Though the over-lap is hardly perfect, you can see some congruence in features. Basically, while the wealthiest are stealing the family silver, a great distraction compounded of racism and faux patriotism arises and busies the people losing the most. It should be noted, too, we were lucky to get out of that spasm so well as we did. What amounted to a sex murder by a leading Klansman broke its spell, and that kind of thing is purely contingent; it cannot be counted on to occur, and cannot be viewed as inevitable in some form.

That said, there is something new in the present situation. Most of the safety valves are out of commission; we are no longer a rising power, social mobility is far more constricted; there is very little social capital of community and family, owing to the erosions of market exploitations of labor. The racial question is very much to the fore, and carries an element of backlash, of attempt to restore a lost age, that was absent from the earlier national burgeoning of the Ku Klux. The marching banner of the Klan was 'This Will Stay A White Man's Country'; the 'tea-baggers' rally under a banner reading 'This used to be a white man's country'. Nor is the left of the present day anything like the left of the earlier period. The left of the present is not a fighting body, it is largely divorced from the working people and even matters economic in the minds of most people. This is very different from the condition of the twenties and thirties of the last century. It is also more difficult to hew to the view that this is a democracy in any meaningful sense, that the will of the majority of people expressed at the polls will guide, and determine, the policy of the government. People did not get what they voted for in 2008; what they wanted was put off till a rump electorate, carefully constructed for the purpose by monied interests exploiting racial chasms and economic distress, could be brought to bear to pretend something else was desired by 'the people', even though many millions fewer voted in the subsequent election than in the prior.

Part of this crafting has been the cultivation of violence by hyperbolic rhetoric and dehumanization and demonization of Democrats, liberals, and anyone who is not a southern or rural white person in general outline. This 'trolling for assassins' is having an effect; there have already been numerous instances of hard right types, mostly semi-sane, cooking off as the heat rises in murderous violence, or serious planning for same. This is going to continue, and must, in the nature of things, increase in frequency so long as it is not addressed as a principal threat to the country by federal and local police authorities. Unfortunately, these agencies are themselves shot-through with rightists, and with people on whom the demonization of the left has worked very well indeed. It is an open question whether they can be trusted to deal properly with rightist political killers, even though these very often target law enforcement personnel deliberately.

[tom_paine]

8. Now THAT'S what I'm talking about. Nice post. Thoughtful. Interesting.

But it still somehwat begs the question regarding what, in the finall tally not yet seen, these people are capable of.

I find this article from 1932 Weimar to be so above and beyond a generic similarty between propagandas of all stripes, that all that you say seems to confirm my thesis that the RW is emulating the Nazis ver very VERY closely.

But I understand that you still disagree and that's OK.

"I'm OK. You're OK."
--1932 German Social Democratic campaign slogan

(OK, OK, I made that one up) :evilgrin:

[The Magistrate]

13. It is Far From My View, Sir, That We Are All 'O.K.' Just Now

Even if one accepts the more radical view that democracy has always been a mere facade and charade, a decision by the ruling strata to dispense with the play-acting marks a real change, and one for the worse.

[Swamp Rat]

18. Excellent!!

So great to see (read) you! :hi:

[NuclearDem]

11. Right wing groups everywhere are going to share similar beliefs

The same way the Repubs here accuse us of being Soviet Communists because we as liberals share some similar ideas to a far-left ideology.

But same as I tell my rightie friends who accuse me of being a Communist...Communism, social democracy, and American liberalism are all leftist ideologies, but not all leftist ideologies are Communism. Same with the right...Naziism and American conservatism are right-wing ideologies, but not all right-wing ideologies are Naziism.

It's why I hate those "WHO SAID THIS, ANN COULTER OR HITLER" or "WHO SAID THIS, AL GORE OR MAO" websites.

Both sides definitely have the potential to tap the most extreme elements of other ideologies though...which is what we need to be on the lookout for. The right has definitely tapped into some Nazi ideology (maybe not genocide or a final solution, but some elements), and they need to be woken up to it.

[Nye Bevan]

14. Don't be so terrified of the tea partiers.

They are not going to seize absolute power, cancel all future elections, herd hated minorities into ghettos and then exterminate them in concentration camps.

[The Magistrate]

15. No, Sir, they Will Not

But they may well enable the permanent bifurcation of our society into one composed of a tiny aristocracy of wealth and an impoverished peasantry, with little else present but discarded starvlings. That is certainly what they are being mobilized to do.

[Cerridwen]

22. Have you read "Old Nazis, the New Right, and the Republican Party:

Domestic fascist networks and their effect on U.S. cold war politics" by Russ Bellant?

It's from the early 90s but it's pertinent to today's politics. It's a history of the Nazi influence and control of the "new" republican party. link

He has another; "The Coors Connection: How Coors Family Philanthopy Undermines Democratic Pluralism", link

They are both well researched and documented. It is part of our hidden history. He names names and the names will disgust and amaze you.