Londoners hit back as Cleese says city is 'no longer English'

[steve2470]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23983436-londoners-hit-back-as-cleese-says-city-is-no-longer-english.do

Comedian John Cleese sparked fury today after he said that London is "no longer an English city".

The Fawlty Towers star was slammed after saying that the capital feels like a foreign city and that English culture is disappearing.

In an appearance on Australian television to promote a show at the Sydney Opera House he said: "I'm not sure what's going on in Britain. Let me say this, I don't know what's going on in London because London is no longer an English city and that's how they got the Olympics.

"They said 'we're the most cosmopolitan city on Earth' but it doesn't feel English.

[provis99]

1. "London is a very English city. The best thing about it is the diversity"

then it's not a very English city, is it?

Cleese is right about London not being very English. Saying London is very English is like saying Boston is very German.

[BOG PERSON]

2. Good.

I'm glad. Englishness is obnoxious.

[Fuzz]

3. lmao

[provis99]

5. London is chock full of Americans. Twice as obnoxious as the English.

First person I met in a pub there was an American businessman, who said he was going to South Africa on business, and then ranted how black people were ruining South Africa just like they ruined America. The second guy I met was a New Zealander, who was telling the American to shut up. The bar was owned by a Polish couple, and the waitress was from Pakistan.

Definitely multicultural, but English? No.

[BNJMN]

17. Thank God knee-jerk stereotyping is alive and well, what would we do w/out it?

nt

[lob1]

6. Then you've met the wrong English people.

The ones I met were lots of fun.

[flvegan]

14. If you're an American, this is facepalmingly hilarious.

[BOG PERSON]

21. it is not facepalmingly anything

americans are generally polite and unassuming when theyre touristing

[flvegan]

29. Satire, sarcasm. I love it! Keep it up.

[lob1]

32. Are you kidding? Americans are the most obnoxious tourists

in the world. I say this as an American. I've traveled to about 30 countries, and American tourists have embarrassed me in every one. They're demanding, loud, and have very little, if any, appreciation for the culture around them. It's all me, me, me.

[rationalcalgarian]

40. A generalization..... however....

there is a thread of truth in what you say.

I hooked up with a group of Americans in Paris this spring and had a few drinks with them that evening. They were in awe at the way a city the size of Paris could function the way it does. "It's like, you know, they all just kind of, you know, agree." They were impressed.... not obnoxious, not belligerent.... respectful .

On the other hand.....

Leaving Bangkok and obeying the rules by getting into the long, slow-moving queue under a sign that read "Foreigners Line up Here", I overheard an especially impatient man comment to his wife, "Why are we waiting here? We're not foreigners, we're Americans!"

But seriously, folks....

Other stereotypes are equally false. I have been to Paris four times and not yet run into the Rude French Waiter. He takes your order, he brings your order, then.... he leaves you alone! I love it! Unlike waiters here who wait until you have a mouthful of food then ask you "Is everything OK?" And your date is so impressed as you answer mmmph mmph mmph and half-chewed rigatoni falls onto your plate. Give me a French waiter any day.

[BNJMN]

54. What in God's name are you babbling about?!@ THIS tourist is your average US tourist...(video)

A polite young man, eager to take in the sights and spread goodwill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu_uD11SIDg

Not sure *what* you're talking about.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

43. If that were true, then we wouldn't have such a horrible reputation.

Some Americans are, most Americans don't realize there are other people in their general vicinity, let alone outside the borders of the US.

[BNJMN]

55. Stereotypes, FTW.

nt

[Pab Sungenis]

4. Another trip to London was on my bucket list

but now I think I might replace it with two weeks in a small English village instead.

[southmost]

7. why the obsession with homogeneous populations?

diversity can be a good thing, no?

[Confusious]

37. Why do you think he is talking about the population?

Maybe he's talking about the culture. Less English, more other places.

[otohara]

8. The England He Grew Up In

was all white.

[orpupilofnature57]

9. Nice way to quell the unrest and promote social cohesion ,idiot.

[Poll_Blind]

10. New York and London share more than London does with Bath or NY with, say, Little Rock

These are international cities. Obviously, Cleese grew up with a London of 40 or 50 years ago. I don't think its a particularly exotic or inflammatory comment to make on the face of it, New York 40 or 50 years ago would have been much more representative of an American City than it is now.

I was going to include Amsterdam because, although I haven't been to any Dutch cities other than Amsterdam, I can't possibly imagine that Amsterdam is a representative Dutch town. But the Dutch vibe in Amsterdam is still very close to the surface, at least as I experienced it.

Then again, does Cleese want the opposite? A sort of "This is a Local Shop for Local People!" of Royston Vasey?


Let's face it, the London he laments wasn't any better or worse, and probably worse, than it is now. It was just less-soaked in the kind of culture that Cleese laments the loss of.

PB

[DonCoquixote]

34. hidden insight

All the cities are becomoing more lik each other, which is why right wingers demonize cities everywhere

[orpupilofnature57]

45. By the way Bath like Ballston Spa has been Internationalized for year's

All them Jersey people.

[FredStembottom]

47. There's nothing for YOU here.....

:rofl:

[RB TexLa]

11. "English culture is disappearing" The world can only hope

[steve2470]

13. Explain please

Every English person I've met was quite nice. I'm sure there are some who are not, but so far I have not met any.

[flvegan]

15. I hope to the internets gods you get a response.

It should be...uh, brilliant. Or something.

[Agent William]

22. I hope ingnorant posts such as yours disappear. n/t

[Confusious]

38. Why do you hope?

Is there a problem with English culture?

Is shakespeare not on the approved culture list now?

[Prophet 451]

44. Yes, we hope you disappear n/t

[onehandle]

12. Felt English to me. It's a massively crowded place with a multi-cultural spice...

...but still overwhelmingly English. Much like New York is American, but diverse.

It's also one of the most expensive places in the world to live. People my wife work with on her global team work in London, but live far away from the city. They simply can't afford to live there.

Additionally, I have encountered more people in New York that could not speak hardly any English, than I did in London. (Just a personal sampling. I spent five days in London, but have been to New York a dozen times or so.)

[monmouth]

16. Does Cleese yearn for those good ole "Upstairs Downstairs" days?..LOL...n/t

[DonCoquixote]

18. Homogeneous populations

It's funny how the places that pretend to be pure cultures/races are anything but: The English are a mix of Roman, Celt, Scandinavian and Germanic peoples, which is why their language is such, which is why that language is use by many peoples. It does not follow the rules most languages do because it was a pidgin made by people who were stuck on that island to talk! It is funny to hear the White racists talk about their "pure" race when they are among the most mongrel race of all!

[BNJMN]

20. What about black racists?

Or how about just race / 'heritage' oriented people in general?
We all came from Africa anyways, right?

[DonCoquixote]

24. Them too

especially considering the various cultures that have been through Africa, but the White Racists love to blather about purity, and I come from an area of the country where they put on demonstrations and radio shows.

[BNJMN]

30. Yikes. I have family like that. It's scary.

All racists are simple minded, but I concede that White Racists 'hold the stick' and therefore deserve extra scrutiny.

[rationalcalgarian]

41. Too true

I come from a lineage that fell out of the Viking family tree and hit every branch n the way down... Celt, Pict, Scot, Gael, Norman, Anglo and Saxon. My father and grandfather are the most racist bigots yet ascribe to a religion that is foreign to their heritage. I point out that we have absolutely nothing in common with with a desert dogma from the SE Mediterranean and if they have to be religious, be true to their history: Wodin, Thor, Loki et al.... Asgaard as the home of the gods and Valhalla where we will all end up.
They don't like talking to me at Thanksgiving dinners for some reason.

[DonCoquixote]

51. lol

I am Puerto Rican, but my tree extends into the Basque area and the Carthagians, who were basically from what will someday be called "Palestine" on the map. At least you Norsemen have some idea who you used to worship before the "God of Abraham" cultural virus corrupted your cultural data :)

[BNJMN]

19. He seems to be stating the truth. Whether this is a 'good' or 'bad' thing is the issue.

That's my take on it.

Feel free to mob me (or not) as you please.
Unpopular opinions always come with a risk attached I guess.
Ask, Cleese.

When downtrodden people complain that their neighborhoods are being taken over by white people I do not hear nearly as many hoots and hollers of derision. Make of that what you will. I guess rich white people can afford to move elsewhere and poor 'colored' people cannot. So, maybe it's a bad comparison?

[Skittles]

31. CORRECT

[Festivito]

42. Indeed. Might cosmopolitanism have a limit: 50%, 99%, 100%, or until profiting declines.

Socialism has its limits. Capitalism has its limits. Can cosmopolitanism?

When?

When there are only ten Brits left in London and they spend most of their time vacationing -- elsewhere.

In the mean time, there are other cities in which to live while the rent checks keep coming.

[BNJMN]

56. 'Cosmopolitanism'. Interesting. I think the question...

...is how to enforce cultural standards.

Of course, unless you have a police state, on a smaller level, you cannot.
I.E.
You cannot force people to dress 'appropriately', act 'appropriately', be considerate of others. Respect their elders. Etc.

Unless you restrict access to an area you cannot cultivate a set of self imposed standards either. Whether through financial requirements or a strict homeowner association rules. Whatever.

That isn't going to keep people from wearing their hats backwards, drooping their drawers, walking around with a limp, scowling at everyone, and basically acting like thugged out scum bags.

I don't know the answer.
I live in Texas and there's two groups. Rich conservatives (mainly Republican and very 'Establishment' and boring) and ghetto-ed minorities. Generalize much?

Those are the main cultures I see.
I've lived in other places where there are
larger segments of middle class bohemians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemianism
That's where I fit in.

Anyways, ramble on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3HemKGDavw

I just fear, cannot stand, hate, don't understand thugs & gangstas.
Just saw some idiot, dressed all in black, with baggy jean shorts, flat brim baseballs cap backwards, folded handkerchief, the whole 9 yards, pimp walking down the middle of the goddamn street, back turned to the traffic he was holding up.

Ridiculous.
Self Centered, Ego Driven, Aggressively Ignorant bullshit.

/vent.

[Festivito]

57. Enforcing cultural standards seems to be for control freaks.

Not that a few basic standards are not cultural standards, such as life, liberty and whatever we can do from there. Sagging pants does not effect death and incarceration, or, should I say, it should not.

But, to argue with myself, if sagging pants means I cannot walk freely with my children in tow, do I want to curb it. Failing that, go to war and kill it.

Should long-time Londoners endure an open society and never curb or fight.

Should novo-Londoners be allowed to take over and become the new norm.

/ramble -- for now.

[mwooldri]

50. I agree with you.

Without attaching any sentiment to Mr. Cleese's statement, he is correct. However is it a good (or bad) thing that the so-called English stereotypical person is not as prevalent in the Greater London area as it was in the past is a whole different question.

Personally, I think it matters not, because in my mind being English is a state of mind and not something that can be put down on a passport. Being English is not a racial matter either. England changes, as does being English. This is coming from someone who grew up in rural England, and where racial diversity means your school has a single person who has a bit of a suntan, and you're more likely to encounter differently abled people than different ethnicities.

[TlalocW]

23. Don't mind him... He's from Barcelona

TlalocW

[eShirl]

39. "He put Basil in the ratatouille!!!!"

The black arm band always gets me...

[Historic NY]

25. Perhaps he means the stereotypical Victorian London ..........

London now covers all corners of the old Edwardian Empire.

[treestar]

26. Therein lies America's greatness

Diversity does not scare us.

[txwhitedove]

49. Seriously? Not in big cities, but you must not have lived in small-town America.

I did, and the first thing you are asked is "Who are your people?" Meaning family, meaning you should be familier to them. And once, "I saw a stranger on the street today and it worried me."

[Bonobo]

52. Is that why cities are divided block by clock into different ethic groups?

Did you ever live in NY or Chicago?

:shrug:

[riderinthestorm]

27. Change is hard. I'm in (near) Chicago, the "City of Big Shoulders", or "Al Capone's Mafia land"

or maybe it's the sparkling city with the incredible architecture, or maybe it's all about crooked politics ala the Daley's, fixed elections ("vote early, vote often!"), and the Dem political machine (and Oprah!)....

I think it's quite possible Cleese is grieving for a city that he has in his imagination that is growing in different directions. That can be bad (the Capone years aren't something any city should be proud of) but one thing's for sure, they do make a city interesting.

[Zanzoobar]

28. Good. There were too many Brits there, anyway.

:)

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. "Those three lions on your shirt...they never sprang from England's dirt"

Billy Bragg
England, Half English

My mother was half English and I'm half English too
I'm a great big bundle of culture, tied up in the red white and blue
I'm a fine example of your Essex man
And I'm well familiar with the Hindustan
'Cause my neighbors are half English and I'm half English too

My breakfast was half English and so am I, you know
I had a plate of Marmite soldiers, washed down with a cappuccino
And I have a veggie curry about once a week
The next day I fry it up as bubble and squeak
'Cause my appetite's half English and I'm half English too

Dance with me to this very English melody
From morris dancing to Morrissey
All that stuff came from across the sea

Britannia, she's half English, she speaks Latin at home
St. George was born in the Lebanon, how he got here I don't know
And those three lions on your shirt
They never sprang from England's dirt
Them lions are half English and I'm half English too

Le-li, umma le-li-ya, le-li Umma le-li-ya
Le-li, umma le-li-ya, bledi g'desh akh! le-li-ya

Oh, my country, what a beautiful country you are

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. Very apposite. Bragg can talk (and sing) far more intelligently about Englishness than Cleese

And you won't find him whinging about tax rates, either.

[bluedigger]

48. Well, you might find Billy ranting about taxes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BgsHb3jPMM

But in a good way!:thumbsup:

[reggie the dog]

36. London looks english to me

rainbow english with all the shades of people from former colonies, i will now boycott faulty towers, fuck him

[orpupilofnature57]

46. Ya !!! he's from hollywood now.

[sfpcjock]

53. That's because in 1997 they let all the American banksters in

with a free hand to export their profits. After that they started to lose their tax base. More from Niall Ferguson.

[HipChick]

58. Actually Polish people and folks from the Eastern Europe

after the whole snafu with the EU...


Account for a lot of the language you hear on British streets...however because they are not of color...seem to be invisible to the whole mem of London is "no longer an English city".