This Transportation Alternative is where our resources should be concentrated:

[supraTruth]

http://www.freewebs.com/prpmt1/index.htm

[taterguy]

1. Why?

[supraTruth]

2. Because it can allow US to EVENTUALLY go from our homes to ANYwhere w/o having to change systems or

vehicles, & in the most efficient & environmentally friendly way possible.

It combines a government guideway system with the EVENTUAL ability to own private vehicles made by ANY manufacturer that meets the necessary standards.

It is the INTERNET of Transportation.

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. And the construction of complex , prestressed concrete and/or steel overhead guideways....

can be done for .....what?



Pennies?

Not bloody likely.

Another pie in the sky idea, straight out of a 1950's Popular Mechanics.

[supraTruth]

8. Much cheaper than MASS Transit Trains to build due to the lighter vehicles.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. You aren't at all familiar with how such structures as the one in your link are constructed,....

are you?

What's involved?

Any idea?


You think they go up overnight?

[supraTruth]

15. As a construction estimator who worked as a union form carpenter for much of 8 years, I have more

than just an idea of the work involved. & no, of course the monorail guideways would not "go up overnight." But they WOULD go up quicker than MASSIVE FREEWAYS & at least as fast as high-speed train tracks. As a modular system, it would all get easier & quicker with time. It is a system for the DISTANT FUTURE that can quickly start working for the VERY NEAR FUTURE.

San Francisco's BART took 10 years for the basic system. The problem with it is that the farther the system reaches, the more difficult it is to schedule the intermediate stops. This system is not hindered by intermediate stops; they are ELIMINATED.

PersonalMultiModalModularMonorailMaglevTransit

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. Not in most mass transit systems in the world

In Tokyo, for example, they don't eliminate intermediate stops. They just send out express trains and slow trains so many times per hour each.

[supraTruth]

47. Makes more sense to stop only at the station 1 wants.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. Your sentence doesn't make sense

I can't parse it.

[supraTruth]

50. I corrected the word for US.

Thanks.

[taterguy]

12. Anywhere? How am I gonna get to Buxton on one of those?

[supraTruth]

16. EVENTUALLY a guideway will take U there. Intermediately U will be able to walk or drive to your

nearest station & take a publicly rented vehicle to as close as possible, & then either ride your bike or take a taxi until a station is built close enough for U to walk.

[taterguy]

18. "Intermediately", what exact distance are we talking about?

It's your idea, back it up with solid data.

[supraTruth]

19. It is not MY idea; the system was being studied farther back than 1971 when people 1st rode in a

maglev vehicle (in Chula Vista, CA) BEFORE Boeing bought the rights from ROHR INDUSTRIES & RAYgun dropped ALL funds for future study of it from the Department of Transportation.

The general consensus is that a PersonalMagTransit system should be built with guideways following freeway arteries for right-of-way access with stations at central downtown locations & shopping malls & universities & parks & beaches, with infill stations added later as funds are obtained from the diverting of tax $ from our present systems. Remember, our present automobile road system was not built overnight either.

If U explore the links given in my original post, U can answer most of your questions yourself; but I will try to answer those that U cannot find for yourself.

Thank-you for your interest.

http://prpmt1.webs.com/systemdescription.htm

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[supraTruth]

23. After infills, stations 10 blocks apart (similar to N.Y. subways stations) are proposed for dense

population areas, allowing for a maximum 5-block walk. In more suburban areas, major shopping malls along freeway/guideway arteries would be the norm until infills & EVENTUALLY (50-100 years?) guideways to individual homes & condos would be the ULTIMATE GOAL.

[taterguy]

27. So how far away will the nearest station be from Buxton?

Do you not understand the word 'specific'?

[supraTruth]

28. Be specific; what state is "Buxton" in.

[taterguy]

29. FFS, don't you have Google?

[supraTruth]

30. Yep; THIS is what came up:

http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=buxton

[taterguy]

37. Fine. Buxton, North Carolina

Now where's my specific number?

[supraTruth]

38. Yeah, U are pretty far out in the boonies; it will definitely take a few decades to get to U even

after the system begins to be built; but EVENTUALLY it would seem come down to Hwy. 12 to your great grandchildren's BENEFIT, if U care.

But if we put enough $ into the system sooner than later, people like yourself will be able to buy MultiModal vehicles that can exit & enter the system at designated stations.

[taterguy]

39. I'm nowhere near the Boonies

Let me guess, reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Once more: How many miles away from Buxton will the nearest station be?

ps: I have no children.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[taterguy]

41. It's a system you're advocating. It's your responsibility to explain how it will work

Just for the hell of it, we'll give you all the money you want.

Where will the station be?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. I already tried this challenge with another PRT guy

He kept dodging my questions about specific logistics and tried to tell me that he'd already answered my questions.

[supraTruth]

51. I'll try NOT to dodge.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

120. You ARE dodging

You have not produced a working simulation of a full PRT system that handles rush hour in a city, with people going from multiple points of origin (workplaces) to multiple destinations (their homes, or let's just say their neighborhoods to make the simulation similar.)

The reason nobody has funded PRT is that no one can come up with such a simulation.

It's not a grand conspiracy. It's the fact that such a system doesn't work with more than one, maybe two, lines.

[supraTruth]

121. I am NOT dodging; I have answered EVERY ? asked of me that I CAN. U are asking that a COMPLETE

system be designed ALL AT ONCE FIRST. I say it does not have to be ALL DESIGNED AT ONCE first.

I say we start w/a BASIC system, that takes 1 or 2 decades to build.

PersonalMagTransit (PMT) could begin as basic connecting lines between downtown stations, major shopping and entertainment centers, office cities, industrial centers, trade schools, universities, airports, beaches, parks and existing mass transit stations.

As a component and modularly constructed system, PMT could expand (as moneys become available) to neighborhoods, suburbs, and in the near future to individual home and apartment parking spaces, and even through fast food drive-thru's.

Also incorporated into this system would be once developed GM plans for trans-pallets allowing travelers to drive their cars onto a magnetically levitated pallet carrying them across country for use at their destination.

Eventually, even multi-modal vehicles equipped to exit and travel by their own means could (and should) be built. GM, Ford, Chrysler, American Motors, Boeing, Volkswagen, Toyota, Nissan, etc. could all participate.

These multi-modal vehicles could even be autonomously driven off-grid by artificial intelligence software now being developed by Google. http://www.myconnectedcar.com/telematics/google-prius-autonomous-driving/

Perhaps some day (in the DISTANT FUTURE) our grandchildren may take boat rides in amphibious ski boats with "T"-roofs; then drive into a PMT entry station and travel suspended from a maglev monorail to their homes, their vehicles eventually docking into the side of their homes.

Safety and true relief from transportation related global warming/storming effects are the overwhelmingly desirable elements inherent in a PMT system.

http://prpmt1.webs.com/systemdescription.htm

PersonalMultiModalModularMonorailMaglevTransit

[Lydia Leftcoast]

123. Yeah, you want local govts. to spend millions on an unproven system, and

then when real-world logistics bite them in the ass, the companies will still have profited and the local govts. will be left with half-built systems to nowhere.

No local govt. is going to even start a system that hasn't proved (even in simulations) that it could handle the commuter traffic of a major city.

Meanwhile, light rail, commuter rail, subways, and bus-ways are handling commuter traffic all over the world.

Otherwise, every government in the entire world is irrationally against this WonderSystem that you propose.

[supraTruth]

125. No; I want a Federal system so that it integrates cross country. I want the Federal Gov. to

supply the guideways built to beforehand-agreed-upon standards by private contractors & vehicles provided by various private manufacturers.

"Meanwhile, light rail, commuter rail, subways, and bus-ways are handling commuter traffic all over the world" that forces commuters to stop at multiple stations & change systems.

"Otherwise, every government in the entire world is irrationally against this WonderSystem that you propose." REALLY?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

129. "stop at multiple stations and change systems"--Oh, the humanity!

God forbid that people have to walk between train lines or read signs.

And "private contractors" and "private manufacturers." Uh-HUH.

I'm reminded of another unproven boondoggle that the Feds and some states got sucked into: ethanol, pushed by agribusiness. Oh wait, it costs almost as much energy to produce as it provides, and it does nothing to reduce carbon emissions.

But in the meantime, a bunch of private companies made out like bandits.

I haven't decided whether you're a corporate shill or a deluded True Believer, but you're dodging my challenges, so I'm done.

[supraTruth]

137. WASTE of TIME. U2.

People like U are why nothing ever gets done ANYmore..

[supraTruth]

141. Oh. & I am 1 of those TRUE BELIEVERS, for 39 YEARS NOW.

[supraTruth]

49. Locked into the side of your house, your OWN personal "station." That is the ultimate goal.

[supraTruth]

161. Too bad U got them to delete my message; I answered your ?'s. I guess the attacks are only allowed

1-way.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

159. You're acting like a jerk to this poster

I don't know if you have a history with the OP, but from outward appearances, your posts to this person seem spiteful and angry, and it's hard to see why you're getting bent out of shape.

[taterguy]

171. Honestly, posters who make claims they can't support annoy me

I was perfectly civil until he said this system could get a person anywhere. That isn't possible due to US geography. If he had used the qualifier "almost" I wouldn't have bothered with most of the replies I've made in this thread.

When I called him on it he started making stuff up and that set me off. IE, a claim that the structure would be hurricane proof. 10 days after Irene Hatteras Island is still closed, during the height of tourist season. If there was a way to make a transportation system resistant to hurricanes then we'd be using it already.

For the record, I respond to posts, not posters. My memory isn't good enough to keep track of who I interact with here, with a few notable exceptions.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

174. Thanks for the reply

I'm the same way--I react to posts, not posters, and I usually don't recall who I've sparred with (notable exceptions notwithstanding). I appreciate that you took the time to reply. Thank you.

[supraTruth]

52. Intermediately would be 10 blocks apart in metropolitan areas, so that a walk or scooter ride would

be no more than 5 blocks maximum, like the subways in N.Y.

[taterguy]

54. How are you going to put stations on national park service land?

And are you gonna have half a dozen stations on the Bonner Bridge?

If so, why?

If not, why don't you answer the original fucking question honestly?

[supraTruth]

59. With permission from We The People. No need to put any stations on Bonner Bridge unless

U can think of some need.

Since 1-unit ferries would be incorporated into the system, rural citizens could DRIVE to a station supporting the ferry part of the system & take the system to other similar stations & then travel to locations where the system does not yet go.

What "f*ing" ? are U still waiting for an answer for, RUDEman?

[taterguy]

81. So you're going to put elevated steel rails on most of the surface area in the country?

Where are you gonna get the steel?

Is relying on automobiles desirable? No.

However, this alternative isn't viable, unless you provide basic info like how much it will cost and what areas will be served.

Have you ever been to the Pea Island National Wildlife Refuge? This system would destroy it, not to mention that it would be rather pricey to fix whenever a major storm came through, which is about once a year.

[supraTruth]

87. Along existing roads & highway arteries, yes. We can have it stop at refuges if that is wanted, &

those who want can exit in their OWN vehicles & travel on existing roads there. It would be built to withstand major storms or earthquakes.

U doN'T like roads EITHER, so WHAT do U want?

Horse & buggy? Flying cars? Light rail that stops REPEATEDLY at stations like HEAVY RAIL TRAINS? SUBWAYS? WHAT?

[taterguy]

97. Don't bother replying if you're not going to answer my questions

What's the point of this if we're going to keep our existing roads?

How much is it going to cost?

Where is the steel going to come from? Do you have any idea of how many miles of roads there are in this country?

How are you going to convince people to walk five city blocks? The only places that's currently done are places like New York where owning a car is too much of a pain in the ass. (And yet, people still drive a lot in New York).

Where have I ever said that I didn't like roads?

Why isn't the magic technology that makes something storm-resistant currently used?

How far from Buxton will the station be?

:evilgrin:

[supraTruth]

106. It will relieve the pressure on our existing roads & ELIMINATE having to widen widen them.

Cost less per mil. than ANY other transit system.

Steel will come from the same places it comes fro rebar or ANYthing else.

Let them ride their bikes or scooters if walking is too much.

Did U say U doN'T like roads? Do U like the TRAFFIC too?

It is if it is up to code. Did U see ANY skyscrapers fall from Hurricanes yet?

We can put it in Buxton if U people there ANTE UP.

Really tatertot,U need to get a grip on your anger.

[taterguy]

115. "Cost less per mil. than ANY other transit system." Can't get much more specific than that

:eyes:

[supraTruth]

122. Cost less per mile than ANY other transit system.

Impossible to back that statement up with anything more than intuition & practical sense until an actual system is built, I admit.

But, as a lighter vehicle system than trains, PMT should be cheaper than them.

Buses & cars need ENORMOUS infra-structure ALREADY built that cost US BILLIONS to repair & maintain. A PMT system that will put less stress on its infra-structure which seems inherently cheaper IN THE LONG RUN.

"Light rail" as currently being built might be cheaper than all, BUT with it, passengers are forced to waste time stopping at EVERY station.

Best I can do.

[taterguy]

132. It's taken 24 hours for you to admit this is based on your intuition?

Why didn't you say that earlier? It would have saved us a lot of trouble.

Pardon me for not being convinced by your "practical sense."

ps: About hurricane proofing: How long was electrical service interrupted by Hurricane Irene?

[supraTruth]

138. Well w/those like U we will stick w/cars until the whole country is 1 BIG

FREAKING PARKING LOT.

That would make U happy at least.

[taterguy]

145. There you go again, relying on your intuition

No one on this site has complained more about cars than I have.

If you think a Parking Lot Nation would make me happy then you know very little about happiness.

:toast:

[supraTruth]

150. Then YOUR answer is WHAT?

[taterguy]

172. A comprehensive approach that utilizes all resources as smartly as possible.

Transportation options should be subjected to a thorough Cost Benefit Analysis.

Right now, cars are the dominant mode of transportation in this country, mostly because they are convenient and we don't really account for how much they cost. Ask someone how much automobile usage is subsidized in this country and you'd just get educated guesses. That figure should be compiled and heavily publicized.

There are countless things we could do to reduce oil consumption.

Participation in the Bicycle Commuter Act should be mandatory, not something that's only done by a few companies.

All businesses should be required to have bike racks, in addition to parking lots.

Zip cars need to be available everywhere.

Etc.

Etc.

Will your system work? There's a slight chance it would but until there's actual data to support it there are higher priorities.

[CreekDog]

153. most of the country is not and won't become a big parking lot

most of the country is lightly inhabited with little traffic.

urban centers are often dense, but they are only a small proportion of our land area.

for example, most of Oregon, Nevada and Utah are only lightly inhabited...so much so that most of the road network are unpaved roads. to develop the level of infrastructure you're proposing in these areas, which are probably 1/7th the nation's Lower 48 land area is incredibly wasteful.

[supraTruth]

155. & for these areas the advantage is being able to travel cross country at very high speeds w/o

intermediate stops or the inconvenience of airport check-in.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

160. I live in a rural neighborhood. 30 miles from the nearest (small) town.

BTW - that banner or whatever it is you keep posting is really annoying. Sorry, but it is. It's too long the my monitor so I have to keep scrolling.

[supraTruth]

162. For me it doesn't show UNless I click on the word "IMAGE."

Does it make U scroll to the right to read the words too?

Sorry about that.

Well, maybe some day U can drive to a station that will allow U to ferry your car across country for a vacation; otherwise maybe your children or grandchildren will finally get some use from the system.

[cali]

73. yeah, that'll work where I live in northern Vermont or in Wyoming or

Nebraska or North Dakota or Maine. Ridiculous.

[supraTruth]

74. U saying U wouldn't like to drive your car on to a 1-unit ferry & have it take U to FL or CA

NON-stop to your destination & then have your own car when U get there?

U think our PRESENT SYSTEM isn't ridiculous? Would U vote for our present system if some1 told U that U would have to pay for it to be built as it is NOW?

[orpupilofnature57]

3. Mass transit ,Mass job's ? Less consumption ? Wall street will never buy it

[supraTruth]

5. It is NOT mass transit; it is PERSONAL transit. More jobs; more variety; Wall Street will LOVE it.

[ChandlerJr]

4. I'll wait for the flying car, thank you.

[supraTruth]

6. That would be great except for the air traffic control NIGHTMARE & CRASHES.

[frazzled]

10. Nah, the teletransporter is the only way to go

[supraTruth]

17. Just hope U don't end up part fly.

[napoleon_in_rags]

11. I like it, from the epidemiological perspective

which is an important minus for public transit that the advocates don't mention much.

The public issue with transit is an issue of people who live in rural suburbs vs people who live in METRO areas having to agree. In the context of the latter, cars are freaking dumb, and you realize it the first time you see them moving slower than pedestrians in traffic, while bike messengers zip by... Yet nobody can give them up, so it takes us an hour to move half a mile through narrow streets between sky scrapers surrounded in our two ton expensive steel cages. But then you go to rural areas, where cars are the pinnacle of sanity: Room for you, your wife, and supplies and groceries to take back to the farm. The real way forward is to structure things so urban people can dictate their own destiny as far as projects without effecting rural people as far as taxes.

[supraTruth]

26. Rural people could benefit from being able to drive onto PMT 1-unit ferries to travel on vacations

or business trips to other long distant places, at near MACH 1 speeds EVENTUALLY.

[Speck Tater]

13. Don't forget that oil is fast running out...

The more practical transportation of the future will look like this:

[supraTruth]

14. PersonalMagTransit (PMT) can be powered with electricity generated from WASTE,

EVEN THAT from those horses.

[Speck Tater]

22. Maybe AFTER it is built, but is there enough fossil fuel left to built such a system?

I doubt it, since the Pentagon has "much better uses" (:sarcasm:) for the remaining fuel.

[supraTruth]

24. We need to start building WASTE REFINERIES & electrical generators NOW at our landfills to power our

present system & the building of THIS system to replace much of our present system gradually.

[Luminous Animal]

20. More filling in the landscape because individuals seem to be afraid to sit next to a stranger.

[supraTruth]

25. It is not the "sit[ting] next to a stranger" that is the real problem with MASS transit; it is the

STOPPING AT EVERY STATION that is the REAL problem with trains & subway & BART systems.

PersonalMagTransit would allow US to stop at only the station that takes US to where we want to go, or at least as close as possible until a more distant future funding allows more stations closer.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. So how is this different from a freeway?

and how do you prevent backups from occurring on the switchoffs, and how do you ensure that there aren't too few pods at one station and too many at another?

No PRT advocate has ever been able to answer that question, especially not as applied to a real-life system spread over an entire city.

[supraTruth]

53. NO potholes. Automatic moving of excess vehicles to other stations in need.

[Luminous Animal]

79. It's roads! But in the sky!

[supraTruth]

88. Yes, so that humans & wildlife can pass UNDER it. HIGHER CAPACITY, SMALLER footprint on the

environment, powered by electricity generated from WASTE at landfills, wind, solar, & wave & tide generators.

[Confusious]

164. Computer controlled

While there may be some backups as the system gets up and running, eventually statistics will show how many cars are needed where.

Some things are known in advance, such as people at the mall on saturdays and sundays, concerts, sports events, etc.

Storage of cars could be as simple as a tower, they come in the bottom, go out the top. A computer could dispatch the cars as needed.


If a system like this is to work, manual control is not an option.

[Electric Monk]

31. This is a joke, right?

You should team up with that timecube guy.

[supraTruth]

32. Absolutely NOT. If RAYgun hadN'T cancelled ALL funds for the study of it; we could have been

building a basic system more than a decade ago. After all, people 1st rode on a test track here in 1971.

Germany or China will probably have it before US thanks to the OBSTRUCTIONIST CONS.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. Actually, most of the ADVOCATES of PRT are conservatives

Most notably, Michelle Bachmann. Yes, that Michelle Bachmann.

No system has been built ANYWHERE in the world, even in countries that never had Ronald Reagan, with more than one line.

Why not?

Because the logistical problems multiply with each additional line.

[supraTruth]

56. Funny, on other bulletin boards, it is the CONS that claim it won't work. Maybe U have more in

common w/THEM than U think.

Can U give US a link to where bachmann has advocated PersonalMultiModalModularMonorailMaglevTransit?

Thanks.

[Electric Monk]

57. Let me google that for you

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=bachmann+prt

http://www.dumpbachmann.com/2005/11/bachmann-prt-and-media-memory-hole.html
http://prtboondoggle.blogspot.com/2011/06/will-reporters-ask-michele-bachmann.html
http://www.roadkillbill.com/PRTisaJoke.html
elaborate infrastructure, yet low capacity

[supraTruth]

60. Thanks for the links. 1, the systems being quoted are not complete systems including maglev &

ferries.

2, the writers of the websites U give seem to definitely have an agenda biased towards heavy EXPENSIVE rail systems that force people into MASS transit options that are UNflexible & will never be acceptable to MOST Americans who UNwilling to give up their personal privacy & flexibilty.

U know, just because some1 NEITHER of US likes, likes a transportation system that is flexible & environmentally friendly, it is NO reason to dismiss it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

62. Your second point:

"2, the writers of the websites U give seem to definitely have an agenda biased towards heavy EXPENSIVE rail systems that force people into MASS transit options that are UNflexible & will never be acceptable to MOST Americans who UNwilling to give up their personal privacy & flexibilty."

My experience in Portland was that once people actually TRIED light rail, they liked it and used it often. When I first moved there, I was the only person I knew who didn't own a car.

When I left ten years later, five of my friends had joined me in being car-free. They learned that "privacy" is vastly overrated, that you meet several interesting people for each disagreeable person you encounter, and that there is no "flexibility" when you're stuck in traffic or can't find a parking space.

Have you considered how many ugly overhead structures there would have to be to bring such a system to full use? It would make the old overhead power lines look beautiful in comparison.

Oh, and I looked at a PRT proposal for Melbourne, Australia, a pretty major city. Even it didn't cover the whole city. It was intended as single feeder lines to the existing heavy and light rail systems.

[supraTruth]

67. Light rail transit systems still have to stop at MULTIPLE stations. Why do U think an overhead PMT

system would have to be ugly?



Can U imagine a light rail system replacing MOST of our present car system? I can't. I can imagine PMT replacing MOST of it though.

[Occulus]

86. If I'm going to work, I don't want to go to Cedar Point first n/t

[supraTruth]

89. Then maybe U won't use it; but U will benefit from the decreased traffic on the roads U use.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

102. Nobody has figured out how the interchanges would work with pods being transferred from

one line to another.

When you're transferring people only, it's simple. The people get off the train and walk to the other line. It doesn't matter which line they want to transfer to at the interchange. Some stations in Tokyo handle four train lines smoothly.

But with PRT, you have to transfer the actual pods, a complicated but not insoluble matter if your system has only two lines. But if pods were really going to replace cars, you'd have to figure out the logistics of transferring the pods from, say, Line 1 to Line 2 or Line 3 or Line 4.

[supraTruth]

107. Track SWITCHING & COMPUTERS. CaN'T be any more complicated than the Internet.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

118. So, show me the model

and I bet it IS more complicated than the Internet, since you're moving bulky physical objects instead of electrons.

But go ahead, devise a working simulation of a station where four lines intersect and pods may have to switch to any one of them. Show how that would work at rush hour without pods backing up.

[supraTruth]

124. Why would they all have to intersect at the same point?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

131. Because people might want to go somewhere that isn't in a straight line?

:eyes:

[supraTruth]

So? Still no reason for all of the switching to be done at the same 1 point.

[supraTruth]

139. So? Still no reason for all of the switching to be done at the same 1 point.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

149. Obviously you have no understanding of how real-world transit systems work

I suggest going to Tokyo for a couple of months and seeing how a real integrated multi-modal system works (commuter rail for the broad outlines, subways to fill in the network, feeder bus and trolley lines between the stations).

Or just look at maps of the world's major transit systems, for goodness sake.

[supraTruth]

151. Do U REALLY want to live like the Japanese PACKED like sushi?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

152. I did once--it was fine, and I love going back for visits

Lots of Americans enjoy Japan. Two DUers--Bonobo and Art_from_Ark, live there by choice, and I know dozens in real life who prefer to live there, too, to the point of taking Japanese citizenship. I'd live there, too, if I could finagle the visa technicalities, which are considerable for anyone who doesn't have a pre-assigned job or a Japanese spouse.

And Tokyo's transit system actually WORKS in the real world. So do the transit systems of other major Japanese cities.

[supraTruth]

156. I have met people that like to visit but they wouldN'T want to live & work there. Pay is WAY TOO LOW

with NO unions, NO government S.S. or Medicare. Do U want US to REALLY live as they are willing to.

& they are on an island with most of their population concentrated in certain metropolitan areas; there is much more diversity of terrain & our population is much more spread out here.

Seriously, who wants to waste the time changing systems or checking in at airports to go cross country. & yes, trains are quaint & fun at least once; but cross country on a regular basis?

Some day PMT will be considered the norm if we give it a chance.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

163. Excuse me--you must have Japan confused with China

They have unions, old age pensions, and universal health care.

[Confusious]

165. Really, I think they look quite nice

http://www.taxi2000.com/images/movies/echo.swf

better then hundreds of thousands of miles of black tar roads.

Put the power lines in the rail system, have north/south routes skip every mile ( 1st mile north, second mile south, third mile north. The east/ west lines do the same. You don't need a north/south east/west line everywhere.), you really don't need that many.

The cars and traffic are Computer controlled.

You won't get to your door, but Americans can walk a little and work off that fat. Or ride a bike, you can fit those in.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

33. Right... lets just see them try making that ADA compliant!

[supraTruth]

34. Why not? Roll your scooter right into 1 at the 2nd level station inside a high-rise building or mal.

mall.

[supraTruth]

70. or MALL.

[loyalsister]

134. They're basically starting from scratch

not only is it possible to look for a way, under ADA law it has to happen. I think they would do it right or risk having to do make some seriously expensive changes.

[RushIsRot]

35. I really like this transportation solution. That alone should be sufficient

cause for the idea to never gain ground. DRAT! DOUBLE DRAT!

[supraTruth]

36. Don't think that; CHANGE happens; just much slower than most of US want.

[RushIsRot]

84. There's no profit in it for Big Oil.

[supraTruth]

90. NOT the problem of Americans.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. Oh geeze, another PRT shill

Mass transit advocated by people who are secretly against mass transit and who work in design firms owned by Republicans

I got into an argument about the logistics with another PRT shill a couple of months ago, and when I raised practical objections, he kept saying that he'd already answered my objections, only he hadn't.

[Electric Monk]

55. It seems to combine all the disadvantages of rail with all the disadvantages of normal cars, too

Not to mention that website looks like it was made by a 6 year old :/

[boppers]

58. It's hosted at freewebs.

That says a lot right there.

[canetoad]

61. This is a student project

It's not real. :rofl:

[supraTruth]

72. Could be; but the CONCEPT is real.

Laugh all U want if it helps U sleep at night breathing the pollution from our present system.

[supraTruth]

71. Yep; it says I am not backed by some CORPORATE ANTI-TRAIN CONS.

[boppers]

75. It says that it is not backed. By anyone.

I am reminded of the people trying to rid our environment of dihydroden monoxide.

[supraTruth]

76. Well that sounds like a good reason to dismiss it, huh? Not recommended by ANY1 yet so it MUST be a

BAD idea.

[boppers]

77. We have words for people who have great "ideas", shared by only themselves.

Those words are in the DSM.

[supraTruth]

78. & there are words for those who NEVER have solutions or even want them.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

104. Oh, I want solutions, all right

Better mass transit (as nearly every city in the world outside the U.S. is building), more car-free areas (I saw some amazing ones in Scandinavia last month, and they were popular), and better facilities for bicycles and pedestrians.

Do you really want your whole sky filled with a lattice of tracks, which is the only way you'd get PRT to run to everyone's house?

I dare you to construct a computer model for a PRT system that meets all the transportation needs of your community, including the actual current flow of people between home and work/school, plus you must link all the shopping areas. Pretend you have no cost limitations. That's the easy part. The hard part is the logistics. Go ahead. Let's see what you come up with.

[supraTruth]

108. 1st of all, I want it called PMT because it emphasizes the maglev technology.

I don't think U need more than 1 monorail each way above local streets with EVENTUAL guideways to the houses not happening for decades. By the time it happens, even U will be ready for it.

Over MY head. But then I could never have developed the Internet EITHER, ESPECIALLY BY MYSELF.

"Better mass transit (as nearly every city in the world outside the U.S. is building)"
U REALLY like stopping at EVERY station.

"more car-free areas (I saw some amazing ones in Scandinavia last month, and they were popular), and better facilities for bicycles and pedestrians." We can have those TOO. No reason not to.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

117. Stopping at every station is fine, less inconvenient than being stuck in traffic

Gives me time to read. Forces me to sit back and relax.

I hate driving, and the thing I like least about Minneapolis is its backwardness in the area of public transit.

[supraTruth]

126. So, if U are "stuck in traffic" in a PMT vehicle, READ.

[supraTruth]

68. Well U doN'T like cars OR rail; so WHAT DO U like?

U want to donate a lot of $; maybe I can find some1 to improve the website.

JEEZE; what an argument!

[boppers]

80. I like self driving cars.

No MONORAIL needed.

[supraTruth]

92. Sounds good at areas the grid does not reach, but the vibration from potholes will still shake U &

the bolts of the vehicle that carries U at MUCH LOWER SPEEDS, ESPECIALLY LONG DISTANCES.

[boppers]

100. Just like the divots in the rail will shake passengers and vehicles?

Poorly maintained travel surfaces aren't limited to specific media, just like there are potholes in roads, there are bumps in rails, jumps in tracks.

[supraTruth]

109. Not w/maglev, certainly not as severely. Computers can smooth them out even.

[supraTruth]

66. It is NOT mass transit; it is PERSONAL transit. & the logistics are no more complex than our

current system or an expanded train system.

I don't work in ANY design firm for republiCONS, so get off that kick.

[upi402]

63. Like real really spread out rain riders.

But we should try every damn thing.

[brooklynite]

64. As a professional Transportation Planner...

...this I what we call a solution looking for a problem.

[supraTruth]

69. U think our PRESENT car system is not a problem?

Wow, "a professional Transportation Planner." What's YOUR answer light rail, trains?

[brooklynite]

83. And, you've just proven my point...

You've picked a generic problem to solve with an un-tested, un-studied technology. In the biz, we identify the SPECIFIC problem (people need to egg from A to B, congestion at specific locations needs to be reduced), and then consider EVERY solution (technology, route, grade) to see which works best from a cost, maintenance, power consumption, emissions reduction, and passenger capacity perspective.

By the way, do you want an elevated structure going pas your house? You'd be amaze at how many people tell us "no"

[supraTruth]

93. It has been studied for more than 40 years; just not by our Federal government since RAYgun

cancelled ALL FUNDS for the study of it.

I not only want to see it pass my house elevated above the existing roadway, but want to SOME day be able to buy a guideway to my house.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

103. "Buy a guideway to your house"?

Do you realize that if everyone bought a guideway to their house, it would be like living under a massive jungle gym?

What's wrong with people walking a few blocks, as they do in most of the world, including most large American cities. Our habit of riding door to door is killing us with lack of exercise.

[supraTruth]

110. U are welcome to ban the system from YOUR neighborhood; this IS America.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

119. Ha, you'd have to convince YOUR neighbors, too

:rofl:

[supraTruth]

127. Yep. Or convince them to join the system. This is America. MANY laugh at US.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

130. Yeah, because we indulge in right-wing fantasies instead of building proven

systems for moving large numbers of people.

[supraTruth]

140. Funny; the CONS call it a LEFT-WING fantasy. I guess Luddites come in all political colors.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

148. No, it only shows that Cons are ignorant--they think Obama is a Marxist

Anything they don't want to spend tax money on, they call "left-wing."

[supraTruth]

157. Kind of like U calling PMT a RIGHT-WING CONspiracy. Goes BOTH ways.

[Confusious]

166. If that elevated rail is quiet

I have no problem with it.

I think the problem most people have is they hear "elevated rail" and think of the loud klicky clack of the subway. I wouldn't want that either.

[loyalsister]

135. What do you think about a national rail system

that cooperates with more local transportation like state\city rail and bus systems? Is that something that would be a reasonable plan.
I know that better transit would be helpful in promoting the tourism that would help stimulate local economies.

[supraTruth]

142. Too many systems with TOO MANY FLAWS. We need a new COMPREHENSIVE system that can GROW.

PersonalMultiModalModularMaglevTransit.



Difficult these days to overcome the NEGATIVITY from BOTH sides; but it NEEDS TO BE DONE.

[loyalsister]

146. One size fits all?

with the range of terrain, population density, regional preferences, etc? I don't see it.

[supraTruth]

154. It will allow more spaced out stations in rural areas connecting downtowns & shopping malls & office

parks & universities to more densely (PRT) designed systems in large densely populated urban areas. Built to carry 24-passenger sized buses, as well as 1-unit ferries cross country, it can expand as WE can afford it; 1st alleviating the stress on current, inadequate systems, and EVENTUALLY replacing much of it. No longer will we need to widen freeways, or stop at an ever increasing number of stations as we now have to do with both HEAVY & LIGHT rail.

Travel across country should be priority #1, allowing US to travel coast to coast non-stop at high speeds & w/o the hassle of airport check-in.

[supraTruth]

144. & too many STOPS between Point A & Point B.

[loyalsister]

147. I think a Americans need to grow up

and get over the need for instant gratification. It would do us good to slow down and read a book while we travel rather than get ourselves worked up into road rage every few hours.
Seriously, someone said to me that they thought it would suck to have to wait for the elevator because I live in a high rise building. Seriously 2- 3 minutes of waiting is that bad?

[supraTruth]

158. At 64, I kind of resent being told to "grow up." Many of US have jobs that COST US WAY TOO MUCH

OF OUR PRECIOUS TIME COMMUTING. Often we buy a house & start a family, only to have to find a new job much farther away & our commute increases; & if we WERE to be able to take a train it would stop at EVERY STATION.

[MilesColtrane]

65. MONORAIL!

"is there a chance the track could bend?"

"Not on your life, my Hindu friend."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZjzsnPhnw

[Chan790]

82. God I hope not...

that thing is an eyesore, a catastrophe of clutter-pollution to say nothing of the weighty negative environmental impact of its' construction. You see modular mass-transit...I see a massive drain of non-renewable resources combined with a project that will require more consumption of petrol-resources, coked steel from foundries, manufacture of concrete forms than anything anybody has ever proposed before; necessitate a larger consumption of energy to build and operate than not merely our current consumption but our current capacity...let me put this in perspective for you: This is a worse idea than the f**king tar-sands pipeline. Full Stop. :rant:

We don't need to go hunting for magical new approaches to public transit...we just need to commit to actual solutions to our burgeoning transit crisis and begin building. We need Americans to understand that the era of widespread long-distance personal-vehicle-transit is by-necessity slowly coming to an end. We need to seek solutions to the issues and challenges of current transit implementations and improve upon them.

[supraTruth]

94. "begin building" WHAT? "We need to seek solutions." NEGATIVITY is what got US into this mess.

[Chan790]

101. No. Waiting for the magical thinking rather than fixing the current system is what made this mess.

The solution isn't PRT, it's building buses, trains and current mass-transit solutions today. Let me say that again so it's clear as rainwater...the solution is wider adoption of current technology, combined with dedicating resources and brainpower to addressing the shortcomings of that current technology and infrastructure. It's higher upfront car taxes and petrol taxes combined with reduced highway/road/gas subsidies so that the actual cost of personal transit is borne by the public directly rather than routing it through government subsidies so that it's less apparent to the US taxpayer what the cost of their personal car and its' infrastructure really is to them. It's exploration of systems and technology that advances what we're already doing ratrher than waiting for the magic-solution.

A big part of killing the Waiting-for-Godot magical thinking on public transit is taking PRT to the woodshed and making sure it's really really dead this time...it's a flake concept and Reagan, as much as it pains me to say it, did well to murder it in its' infancy before we poured billions of dollars down that money=hole. If only he'd exercised as much fiscal restraint on other grand-scale fiscal boondoggles like SDI and the MX-missile-centered "Peacekeeper" (an initiative to put most of the US domestic land-based ICBM inventory onto mobile subterranean rail-based launch platforms running under the entirety of the Western US in an effort to render them untargetable.)

[supraTruth]

111. I grew up with buses & they DEFINITELY AIN'T the answer. NOTHING magic about this system & the only

reason we might be waiting for it is that RAYgun CANCELLED ALL FUNDS for the study of it.

It is thinking like U & RAYgun that keeps US WASTING & adding to the CRAPPY systems we have now.

[Chan790]

116. A'ight, so...check.

supraTruth: in support of transportation-based financial boondoggles. Duly noted.

(I'm noting this so that I can remember that we don't need to have any future discussions on this subject...we have no common ground from which to discuss it. I think PRT is a dumb idea and one that should never be given even 2 seconds of consideration or $1 of funding. This means we have nothing to discuss.)

[supraTruth]

128. U call it a "boondoggle;" I call it the future, EVENTUALLY, even if it happens in china 1st.

[Confusious]

167. It's worse then cars? Seriously

It's worse then cars?!?

No imagination on top of it.

[Shagbark Hickory]

85. You haven't been to disney world lately, have you?

There would be some pretty long lines to go anywhere.

[supraTruth]

95. As if we have no LONG LINES on our freeways?

[Shagbark Hickory]

98. Not like disney world.

If you hate the 45 minute commute to work just wait until it takes 45 minutes before you can hop on the ride to work.

[supraTruth]

112. At Disney Land, U wait while the ride gives a thrill to those before U. With this, U get in & GO &

the person behind U does the same.

[boppers]

99. Whoa, that took me way back.

I have seen a system somewhat like this. At Disney*land*, 32 years ago, in "Tomorrowland" or somesuch (I think it was replaced by "Toon Town"?). As another poster said, the worst problems of cars, combined with the worst problems of trains.... one stopped/broken vehicle on the track, and the whole track is rendered useless.

[Shagbark Hickory]

105. Of course there's the 800 lb gorilla in the room...

there's not enough of those little car thingys available at one time for all the people that want to get somewhere.

[supraTruth]

114. Unless we pay for them.

[Confusious]

168. We have these things called computers now

And a system of gathering information called "statistics"

[Shagbark Hickory]

173. I guess disney aint usin' computers

:silly:

[Confusious]

175. Disney has a a monorail

More like the light rail/ subway some here would rather see.

Not the same thing.

[Shagbark Hickory]

176. I'm referring to the rides. Not the monorail.

There's like an hour wait for each ride

[Confusious]

177. I had to wait to ride the kiddie train

at a park in Oklahoma.

I guess we shouldn't have Trains either? your logic.

Not like we have brains, or computers, or statics to make it work better then that. What was I thinking?

[Shagbark Hickory]

178. My logic is clearly explained in 105. That's what happens when you pull one out from the bottom of

the stack without reading the prior replies.

Too many people wanting to go somewhere at the same time for itty bitty ride cars.

[Confusious]

180. Using Disneyland would be fallacy for any transportation system

Population density is too high, to many people wanting to go at the same time. Doesn't happen in the real world.

Any transportation system would fail that test.

After running the numbers, Disneyland has 85 acres open to the public, about .13 square miles.

60K people there on a Saturday. That puts population density at ~462000 people per square mile.

New York is 70,000 people per square mile.

Like I said, fallacy.

[Shagbark Hickory]

181. OK. Fallacy.

I give up.

[supraTruth]

113. Kind of like when there is a wreck on the freeway, but with fewer DEAD people.

[boppers]

136. Freeways have multiple lanes, and no limit on lane changing points.

To emulate the same ability with track/rail, you'd have to have switching points every 10 feet or so.

I also have no idea how you think there would be less dead people, as the concept vehicles seem to have:
1. Less safety bumpers, airbags, crush zones.
2. Much higher travel speeds.
3. They're suspended at heights that can injure/kill from the drop alone.

[supraTruth]

143. & why would we not install the safety measures in a new system? Costs? Is THAT a REASONABLE reason?

As for the height issue, there are ALWAYS trade offs. At ground level more people AND animals are run over.

[Confusious]

170. Backups

Have 2 motors that power the car. 1 Motor can handle the job all on it's own. ( they're electric motors by the way. In ten years of working at a particular job I had, out of ten motors, which worked 14 hours a day, we had 1 failure)

If one engine goes down, you take it out of the queue at the next stop and have it repaired

Does that make you feel better about it?

[hobbit709]

91. When they wo't even spend the money necessary for EXISTING infrastructure

what makes you think they will spend the money for this.

[supraTruth]

96. Good ?! It is why we need to VOTE the tCONS OUT in 2012!

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

169. PeopleMovers

:silly:

[Broderick]

179. I absolutely love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!