Why do we even need the left at all?

[kentuck]

Give me one reason why we should not all become invested in the corporate doctrine?

Can you think of any reasons why we would even need the left?

What can the left do that the right cannot do?

Would we have a better country if we cut corporate taxes to zero? Why do we need schools and hospitals and infrastructure anyway? If we can't pay for it ourselves, do we really need it?

Wouldn't it be a much better world if we simply got to keep what we made? Do we really have a responsibility to take care of our fellow man?

What useful purpose does the left serve? Does anyone have any idea?

Why don't they just crawl off and die?

[DJ13]

1. Are you creating a resume to try and work in the WH?

:hi:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

43. LOL

Made me laugh sumtin fierce.

[KoKo]

52. LOL's...if it wasn't sort of true..... But, here's a bit about our "Problem"

Chuck Spinney: Hill Staffer Expose of the GOP

My very close friend Mike Lofgren, and Republican of the Old School, one of the smartest people I have ever met, backs out of the Capital Hill Saloon with both guns blazing. Knowing the truly dedicated people like Mike in government over the years is one of the things that made my 33 years in government service both a privilege and honor for which I will remain ever thankful.

Chuck Spinney
Ste Maxime, France

Goodbye to All That: Reflections of a GOP Operative Who Left the Cult

by: Mike Lofgren,

Truthout, 3 September 2011

Barbara Stanwyck: “We’re both rotten!”
Fred MacMurray: “Yeah – only you’re a little more rotten.”
- Double Indemnity (1944)

Those lines of dialogue from a classic film noir sum up the state of the two political parties in contemporary America Both parties are rotten – how could they not be, given the complete infestation of the political system by corporate money on a scale that now requires a presidential candidate to raise upwards of a billion dollars to be competitive in the general election? Both parties are captives to corporate loot. The main reason the Democrats’ health care bill will be a budget buster once it fully phases in is the Democrats’ rank capitulation to corporate interests – no single-payer system, in order to mollify the insurers; and no negotiation of drug prices, a craven surrender to Big Pharma.

But both parties are not rotten in quite the same way. The Democrats have their share of machine politicians, careerists, corporate bagmen, egomaniacs and kooks. Nothing, however, quite matches the modern GOP.

http://www.phibetaiota.net/2011/09/chuck-spinney-barn-burner-inside-expose-of-the-gop/

[banned from Kos]

2. you are describing the Libertarian philosophy

not a "corporate" doctrine.

[Hawkowl]

7. I thought it was Obama's musings .nt.

[Dragonfli]

19. He is talking about the corporate doctrine that both parties now follow faithfully

If the religion of that doctrine is Libertarianism or Neo-liberalism or some other politically sacred "ism" it really does not change the fact that it HAS become the doctrine being followed by (for quite some time now) the Republicans in power and now due to a complete shift in the Ideology of the Democratic party leadership, the Democratic doctrine as well. It also happens to be the doctrine of the corporations that continue to benefit greatly from it

The problem really is however (for the neo-liberals) that the believers in the Democratic party platform strongly oppose this doctrine and are thus labeled blasphemers (the fucking retarded fringe professional left) by the adherents of this selfish doctrine that now lead their party.

It is a game being played to steal our retirement, our health care, and in many cases our basic human freedoms so that the extremely wealthy that created this doctrine can gain possession of yet more wealth.

It is time to remove the addition to the large tent that was a cast off piece of cloth from the Republican party, it is foul smelling and spreading its rot right to the ridgepole of that tent.
It is time for the tent to house and protect only the adherents to the principles of the party platform and stop including those that are possessed of ideologies contrary to that platform, they are more accurately described as corporate Republicans and should be sent home.

Even if there are those here enamored of their false promises (and yet oh so telling actions) they are not worthy of defense from any but those on the right that agree with them.
There are many that do carry their water and I find them do be a problem in their own right for justifying the stench and helping to spread it.

[banned from Kos]

36. No, that is Libertarianism. I don't know a single Dem who wants 0% corporate taxes

or to eliminate SS/Medicare.

In fact, food stamp funding and Medicaid have been greatly expanded since 09.

[Dragonfli]

46. Amazing how that is the amount many corporations pay under a Democratic President

Even when both houses and the executive was Democratic some even received REBATES, you are suggesting perhaps they are ineffectual, unskilled, idiots rather consider they agree?

You don't know the blue dogs or the third way even exist (because they recommend cuts to these programs and "tax relief" to corporations) also there were Democrats on a Committee Recommending cuts to entitlements while lowering the top tax rates, they must not have existed and were mere ghosts as was the president who believes eating peas somehow is equatable with weakening these programs by putting them on the table to be chopped.

Never happened, never happens, history as well as the present only exists partially because you claim you do not know any Democrats in favor of such policy.



Funny thing is, I agree with you, no DEMOCRATS believe such things or act this way because Nelson, Bacchus, Obama, and the third way organization are after all nineties style Republicans.

[BzaDem]

49. Who does the Constitution grant the power to set tax rates? n/t

[Dragonfli]

56. I am almost curious enough to find out who "ignored" is that responded to this

I only have two ignores, you have to sound like a computer generated bot to me to make it on my ignore, if I wanted to argue with software or the human equivalent of that I would clear my list and take a peak. but arguing with a program is a waste of time, I have one called "Eliza" written in the late eighties if I wanted that.

[Rex]

3. Compassion, common sense, urgency on environmental topics,

urgency on civil rights abuses, fair and balanced news just to name a few things the Left comes equipped with that the Right never installed.

[ShockediSay]

45. What we need is an anti fascist party. Remember

Right Wing
Super Wealthy Funded
Corporation
Controlled
Media
Propaganda Pumping, Organized and Repitious
with Scapegoating
and Union Busting
=Fascist Regime

[Solly Mack]

4. I like me. I want to continue to like me.

As such, I have to keep following my conscience.

I'll remain left, liberal, fringe, progressive, far left, extreme, radical,(ETA: card-carrying) pinko-commie liberal...anything people want to call me. I don't care.

[Rex]

5. Don't mess with the angry banana

if ya know whats good fer ya! :hi:

[Solly Mack]

6. He's really loveable..when he's not killing off boy bands.

lol

[Rex]

10. Well boy bands are a great scourge on society

I respect him for doing a job no one else would want!

[Solly Mack]

11. He just wanted win a contest. The band killed a group of up and coming cherries.

I just like the photo, mainly. (his snarl especially)

:)

[Rex]

14. It is one of the best pics I've ever seen (and YES it is in my photobucket

collection) and the sigline under the pic is awesome too! Can't blame the top banana for having ambition! :P

[Dragonfli]

25. That is good advice, below is a pick of solly in action!

[Rex]

31. Right click....save...

Thanks!!! :hi:

[MrMickeysMom]

9. Say it, SM

You did for me.

[Solly Mack]

15. Hi, MMM!

I'm always popular with me. With many others... not so much. lol

[MrMickeysMom]

20. That's okay...

As long as you're your own chief banana... ;-)

[BOG PERSON]

8. while i understand you're posing these questions ironically/rhetorically

i think they are serious questions deserving of a serious answer. what useful purpose does this left serve. why doesnt it just crawl off and die. it has been maybe two generations since the left could honestly claim to have accomplished anything at all. now it finds itself spinning its wheels and repeating tired old slogans, which nobody can be bothered to listen to.

[kentuck]

12. I think your response deserves serious thought...

The left has done nothing in a very long time. Simply follow the Party buglers. What purpose are they serving?

[Exilednight]

16. The left's failure, and I include myself in that group, is based in the inability to organize

around a common cause that brings all other causes under their fold. The right has the mantra of less government which umbrellas the rest of their agenda. The left has no such mantra, philosophy or such.

[kentuck]

17. The left has always been the minority, the underdog...

fighting the status quo for every inch of progress it could muster. Maybe they got fat and lazy after a while? Now they just want to rest on their laurels and past adventures?

[Exilednight]

21. I hate to break it down this way, but I believe it to be a generational thing. Looking back at my

life I see many Boomer Hippies who turned into Boomer Yuppies and then sold out the following generation (Xers). Xers are too small of a generation to do much in the way of change and Gen Y never had a real rebellious streak.

[dkf]

34. From generation X on down...we are screwed. Stuck with hefty bills and an uncertain future.

Sucks to be us. How are we supposed to believe in government when it will become so much more onerous to support it?

Being left is fine if you think the other guy is footing the bill. Once you realize you are the one who is expected to pay for everyone else when you don't see a promising future anyway it is very depressing.

[Exilednight]

38. There is a way to pay the bill, stop giving tax breaks to the rich and corporations. Nearly 300

billion of Obama's stimulus was tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations.

I don't give Clinton credit for doing much good, but the one thing he did prove is that you can raise taxes during a recession and grow the economy at the same time.

[dkf]

39. The rich don't make enough and yes I've done the number crunching.

What we've promised is even beyond their capabilities. That was when I started realizing how screwed we are.

[Exilednight]

40. Individuls don't make enough, but tax corporations at even a full percent

and you could make up a lot of ground quickly. Many multi-billion dollar corporations pay no taxes at all. What good is that doing us?

And to be perfectly honest, you don't have to fill the hold completely. Debt is fine, as long as it can be managed.

[dkf]

47. Then they move. All the growth is coming from Asia anyway.

It's a global economy. Capital will go where it gets the best deal.

[U4ikLefty]

50. Let them go & never do business here again.

[Exilednight]

51. They can move all they want, but then they wouldn't be able to do business in this economy. The US

is the worlds largest consumer of disposable goods. No corporation is going to pass that by.

[BOG PERSON]

53. india + china both have sizable consumer-classes

i can't say whether their development models are sustainable though. probably not. on the other hand kkkkraptialism is also probably not sustainable.

[Exilednight]

54. Not in it's current form. Capitalism can be sustained if it were

properly regulated and rules enforced.

[BOG PERSON]

55. i mean environmentally sustainable

i dont know if rules + regulations are going to stave off ecological collapse at this point.

[messiah]

30. What left?

Democrats of all backgrounds have been destroying the left with every chance they get.
Democrats vote out of fear and will continue to pass that fear down from generation to generation moving the country more to right with every passing year.
The left in the United States only exists in peoples fantasies.

This country will be to the right of Limbaugh within the next 10-15 years.

[Exilednight]

37. There is a left, they just get muted out by the loudness of the center and right. I no longer

accept that the Democratic party is left leaning - it's a centrist as center can get.

I've just about given up on the party, but there are no real alternatives to look to.

[Bluebear]

26. Sounds very BOG indeed

[MilesColtrane]

13. Not likely to foster thoughtful discussion, that.

[Me.]

18. Life Is Always A Progression Forward

It's never lived a$$ backwards unless you're a Con or corporatist. Progressives are the ones who push the country forward unto the future. They do not try to constrain it like the Cons do.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. For reference.

eom

[Bluebear]

23. OK Mr President, enough Internet for today.

[leveymg]

24. A good German would be asking the same question in 1937. But, the answer would soon

become clear.

Hang in there. The answer is on the way. But, we may not like it.

[Fumesucker]

27. Every society needs a scapegoat...

Some group upon which all the ills of that society can be blamed.

Otherwise they might start paying attention to their own behavior and indulge in some self reflection.

That is the designated function of "the left" in American society these days.

[napoleon_in_rags]

29. +1. Its the "communists" taking everything over!

When the USSR fell decades ago. I think the Republican party should just start blaming witches and wizards for the ills of the world, or better yet (lest wiccans be blamed) DARK UNICORNS. Then they can get all the "common enemy" unification narrative without needing the left to exist. :)

[Major Hogwash]

28. You're too late, they already selected the new mods.

:rofl:

[saras]

32. If you can place yourself in a group - we - that doesn't include the left, then you DON'T need them

But then this planet doesn't NEED life, let alone people.

The other word for leftists is progressives. They're the people that believe that progress is possible - that it's possible for more of the planet's population to live happy, free, productive lives, that it's possible to stop polluting and clean up current pollution, that it's possible for people to learn to be kinder to each other, much as systematic mistreatment teaches people to be meaner to each other, that reducing suffering pays off in a better quality of life for everyone, not merely the suffering people, that education makes people better able to participate in life, and hence more valuable to the rest of us, etc...

But I know what you mean - the Dems are increasingly indicating that they don't value any of this stuff either, as the monkey fear takes over. We need JOBS, for BOSSES, who will TELL US WHAT TO DO, and FIX things for us, they say. Never mind that they're exactly the people who caused the trouble. We have to STOP SPENDING MONEY, they say, because ours is being taken and we shouldn't fight to get it back. We HAVE TO SETTLE for radical-right economics, they say, because the ONLY ALTERNATIVE is batshit-crazy economics, and it's WRONG to want a third, fourth, or fifth choice.

[saras]

33. delete - dupe

[xchrom]

35. the {neo-liberal} democratic party is more interested in indies

than the left -- that started with clinton and has continued apace.

it was formulated by the new democrats -- to start -- to appear more muscular to voters by developing a 'war voice' -- and ditching the brand they felt was held over from the 60's & 70"s.

i'm not sure there isn't a schism underway -- & like churches i'm not sure that's a bad thing.

there is life after a schism.

[tama]

41. Why?

To channel genuine revolutionary sentiments and ideas into something that will never threaten TPTB in any way. The left is a safety valve. :)

[treestar]

42. Unrec'd plea for sympathy

Do we need the right then?

[blkmusclmachine]

44. Subtitle: "Thoughts From The White House."

n/t

[loyalsister]

48. "The Left"?

Who are the left?
People who unconditionally oppose the war, abortion, death penalty, support single payer health care, and vote for republicans?

People who support abortion rights, oppose the war, support the death penalty, support public education, and labor rights and want their tax breaks and oppose a single payer health care system?

People who staunchly support public education, vouchers, single payer health care, higher taxes, and worry that someone really wants to take away their guns?

A union member who opposes abortion, supports public education, opposes a single payer HC system, wants to see the taxes raised, and resents "welfare," food stamps, etc.

Really, it is difficult to sort out broad categories.

[provis99]

57. well, the Democrats don't need the left's opinions or ideology.

All they need is their votes.

And since as the Obama fans constantly gleefully point out, there is no other party to vote for, the Democrats can pretty much continue to ignore the left, or piss on them to gain votes from uncommitted centrists.