Do People in DU Hate MoveOn.org?

[qwlauren35]

I know that I'm on ignore for most people in DU, and have been called a Rethug. I accept that. But I think what MoveOn is trying to do is good, and fairly left/progressive. Why doesn't it get more support here?

I'm just curious.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I am a member

??????

[JDPriestly]

2. Lots of people on DU are in MoveOn.org.

Why do you think that is a problem?

[qwlauren35]

7. See response #4.

I think I expected to see more discussion of their "Contract for the American Dream", and more posts about their efforts in general.

I avoid DU these days and I don't call myself liberal anymore because I feel so completely at odds with the views I read here. But maybe I am mistakenly thinking the DU accurately represents the views of all progressives.

I hope not. There doesn't seem to be a lot of "hope" here. Yeah, that was Obama's big mantra in '08, so maybe that's the wrong word. But it seems like this place is sooooooo negative.

Maybe it's because only argumentative posts stay at the top of the food chain.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

3. One of the first members here --

I like their work and continue to support them.

[EFerrari]

4. I don't hate MoveOn but they are not a democratic group.

They are basically a couple of rich people who want no feedback. That's fine, it's their money and their project but I don't work with them any more. They do some good things.

[truedelphi]

8. That is another one of my top peeves with them.

It is a top down, not bottom up, organization.

They send you emails about the causes we are all supposed to jump aboard, and you cannot give any input. At all.

I even know of an acquaintance who became one of the "header" names on emails to everyone on Moveon's list. And MoveOn has him buried, so you cannot Zabasearch where he is now. It is easier to find Andy Card's personal information than Justin Reuben's.

[EFerrari]

12. I was in touch with one of their close advisors who basically resigned

after the 2004 election and that was his reality check to me. That's fine. It's their baby.

[qwlauren35]

15. Thank you.

That helps me understand. I should not have said "hate". Maybe just "unenthused". But saying "hate" gets more attention, and made it more likely that I'd hear from people.

I've noticed that inflammatory language is very useful here.

[EFerrari]

20. LOL, yes, it is. Arthur Blaustein was the person I was in touch with.

He's really great. He came all the way over from the East Bay on a week night to speak at one of my events.

[truedelphi]

42. Sorry to hear that you worked on their project and could have

helped out a book tour even more if the Move On "Top Dogs" had cooperated.

My feelings came from their refusing to "move on" even an inch in terms of the election machinery. Their stance toward the Ohio vote count in 2004 was, as someone else pointed out, reprehensible for any organization who really has as a Mission Statement helping to ensure the democratic way of life.

When a nation counts its votes on hackable machinery, and when a nation offers its citizens nothing in terms of candidates that they can choose from, I find the notion that it is a democracy rather facetious. The voting machinery issue was damn important and the MoveOn folks remained aloof until everyone else got on that band wagon.

Without an "in" to the WH, I was able to interview Andy Card during one of the weekends when Katrina effects were ravaging New Orleans. Even with an "in" to MoveOn, in terms of knowing at least two people who have been guests of Joan Blades and Wes Boyd at their SF Bay area home, I have never been able to talk to the two main players. They're at least as remote as some hermit in the Himalayas.

[EFerrari]

45. My head exploded when, during the Ohio recount,

they had house parties about what to do next. :shrug:

[Bluenorthwest]

22. Excpet that it isn't. Useful.

The editorial wording and passive aggressive nature of your post is at odds with clear, respectful communications. Hate is a word tossed about like a nerf ball by people who have never had to deal with the real thing at all.

[qwlauren35]

28. Guilty as charged.

I am a very passive-aggressive person.

However, I am also getting the information I wanted. So it is useful to me.

If it offends, I apologize. I did not mean to offend.

As for hate? I've been scorned, and I've had rocks thrown at me. It didn't feel good. But no one has ever tried to gas me or send me to a concentration camp, or drag me on the ground tied to the back of a car. So, no, I don't know hate. Only strong dislike. Hate can be a very destructive thing.

Maybe I should have said why does it seem like DU puts MoveOn on "Ignore".

[truedelphi]

5. For me, as well as for a lot of people who were involved in

election issues, like trying to ensure that the Black box voting, hackable Diebold machines were not used, well, MoveOn failed to consider that this was even happening.

If it is controversial, they wait until all the facts are in.

Like "We can't say rain will get ya wet, because it hasn't rained yet today."

[qwlauren35]

9. OK

That helps me understand.

[EFerrari]

17. I was selected to open their book in San Francisco in 2004.

I got speakers, local elected and a couple of our best stand ups AND I had the event taped and put on our local public access. Went far over and above what they asked for. They were really happy and sent me flowers from Hawaii of all things.

But, I also figured out I could just as easily organize another event in a different part of town with an equally cool line up. All they needed to do was send an email to one zip code. It should have been easy. And that way the book would really be launched in the city. They couldn't get it done. Their local PR guy swore to me he did it and I knew he was fibbing because *I* was in that other zip code and got nothing. I went ahead with the event and we did fine but it could have been 5X that good except they couldn't get it together to send an email because they have no way to deal with real participation. It was a waste of a good opportunity.

Between that and them going dark when we were recounting Ohio, that was it for me.

[Ian David]

6. ...

[qwlauren35]

11. See responses #4 and #9.

Maybe my language was a bit strong, but I expected more synergy and I don't see it.

[Ian David]

13. #4 is from "Ignored" and #9 isn't helpful. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

26. What do you mean by 'I expected more synergy'?

Please be specific. Thanks in advance.

[qwlauren35]

30. Synergy

The Rebuild/Contract for the American Dream "movement" as MoveOn calls it had a write-in campaign in July where anyone could write down an idea that would do SOMETHING to address America's problems, from a progressive perspective, and people could vote on them. I thought I might see some of those ideas turn up here for discussion. That's what I meant by synergy.

What I liked about the whole process was that everyone had a small voice, a vote, an influence in the process. It seemed very ground-up instead of top-down.

They are still trying to do the ground-up approach with taking the movement forward, figuring out how to get the contract discussed, acknowledged, advocated, advanced. Again, I wish I saw that reflected in DU.

I am easily disappointed.

[YvonneCa]

37. Maybe they are trying to do 'ground up' on the wrong...

...issues. I always thought one of MoveOn's strengths was that it gave voice to the issues progressives and other Democrats cared about. After about mid 2005, that stopped being the case IMHO. It seemed MoveOn became more of a fundraising effort for issues the Democratic Party wanted support for (I say this as both a Democrat and MoveOn member :7 ).

I think now, MoveOn is still doing that. No one here (IMO) is going to engage in discussion on a contract 'like the Tea Party has.' That is not grassroots...it's astroturf.

[zeemike]

10. I have been a member sense the beginning.

Signed the original on line partition that started the group.
But like most liberal institutions it is eventually taken over by the moneyed special interest and resigning itself to diddling around and raising money.

[qwlauren35]

14. What do you think of the Contract for the American Dream?

I tried to get involved, but I think my area is too Red. I was impressed by the approach and liked a lot of the proposed ideas, even if I thought they were too idealistic. I signed the Petition, but was dismayed at how few signatures it actually got.

I would have liked to have seen it get more support here. And more discussion.

Maybe it happened and I missed it?

[JDPriestly]

16. Do you mean Rebuild the American Dream?

[qwlauren35]

24. I think those are the same things.

They came up with a "Contract" and had people sign it. I think they got about 250,000 signatures and printed it in the NY Times. I think it would have been more effective to print it in Time Magazine, but that's just me...

I expected more signatures. To me, it seemed to be a sign that the left doesn't have a strong voice, but then again, maybe MoveOn just doesn't represent that many people.

[JDPriestly]

41. Rebuild the American Dream is not just a Move-On organization

It is kind of an umbrella organization that includes a number of organizations. At least that is my understanding. I could be wrong on this.

[YvonneCa]

21. Is that the one where they sent the email...

...saying we needed to be 'tea party like' ? If so, I gave them a peice of my mind on that one... :7

[qwlauren35]

31. What did you say?

The Tea Party scares me because it has been very effective. It has gotten people elected and it has influenced Congress.

I would LOVE to see a ground-up, grass-roots organization like the Tea Party emerge from the progressive community.

Is that so bad?

[YvonneCa]

35. Your words... "I would LOVE to see a ground-up, grass-roots ...

...organization like the Tea Party emerge from the progressive community" are very close to what MoveOn said. As a member, I was offended by the part I bolded.

WE DID already form a 'ground-up, grassroots organization' in the progressive community between 2000 and 2008. WE got people elected (Congress in 2006 and Obama) and WE influenced Congress. If anybody knows that, it should be MoveOn.

I was infuriated because they didn't seem to know that. I told them...if they think we need to model ourselves as a progressive movement after the 'Tea Party'...they have lost their way. And it saddens me to say that.

[hfojvt]

23. most DU discussion is about the negative

We talk about the politicians and sometimes ideas, but mostly people, that we hate, and much, much less about ideas we like.

This thread told me something new about moveon though. I did not know they were top down.

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. Use to be a member until the last election. Stopped donating and no longer

participate in anything they do. I'm pretty much finished giving anything to any political organization and politician. The entire system is corrupt. I'm finished feeding it.

[Maccagirl]

19. What have they really accomplished?

In a PR sense, they are counter-productive, much like PETA.

[Jane Austin]

25. I'm a member

of both.

[Uben]

27. They lost me when they started endorsing candidates

Eli decided to give up MoveOn's neutrality and endorse Barack Obama last election. That's fine, but he should have notified members long before he made that decision he was going to endorse. Those of us who were supporting Clinton were obviously pissed
because their donations were now supporting the opponent! Not that I don't like Obama, I do! I am one of his strongest supporters, and am very happy he won the nomination and presidency. But don't take my money under one pretense and do something else.

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. It wasn't necessarily the fact they endorsed a candidate. It was that they endorsed the candidate

BEFORE the fucking Democratic primary. THAT was it for me. It would have been fine had they endorsed Obama AFTER he won the Primary, but that's not what they did. Big mistake on their part.

[Uben]

34. Yep, I agree.

They lost thousands of members due to that major screw up. Pretty much burnt me out on contributing to any organization other than DU. So far, DU hasn't endorsed primary candidates, and I hope they never do.

[qwlauren35]

33. Thank you.

That also helps me to understand.

I appreciate it.

[ixion]

32. only the DLC'ers

[WinkyDink]

36. I personally have some issues with their stances.

[rucky]

38. Welcome to ignore.

kidding.

I don't think there's animosity toward them here. They just get - er - ignored. PFAW, too.

[seabeyond]

39. i haven't seen an issue with moveon.org. so, i dont know. i dont have an issue

that i know of.

why? what is the controversy.

[Curmudgeoness]

40. I like the idea of what they are trying to do, but I don't like the way they do it.

All of their emails come with a great come-on subject, one that I want to know more about. But when you open the email, it gives you very little information on the subject, and just asks you for money to fight whatever-the-subject-may-be. But I feel uninformed, it is a tease, and there is no substance presented in the email for me to really know what the truth is.

That is a turnoff for me.

[stranger81]

43. I certainly don't . . . have been a member from the get-go.

My loyalty is to the principles I believe in, not to any party that sells them out.

[Rex]

44. Depends on who you ask.

DU is not a group of blind lemmings. I've seen people here write passionate posts about MoveOn that go one way or the other!