Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Charter school moves into public school..moves furniture around, takes over auditorium.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 01:34 AM
Original message
Charter school moves into public school..moves furniture around, takes over auditorium.
Edited on Sun Aug-28-11 01:37 AM by madfloridian
Occupation of Logan Street School Rooms by a Corporate Charter Continues

A day after the Echo Parque (Park) community learned that Gabriella Charter Corporation had ended their week long occupation of Logan Street Elementary School's auditorium, evidence that Gabriella had merely taken over another room and moved their furniture into that room once they had emptied it of its existing contents came to light.



From the album:
Logan Street ES occupied by Gabriella Charter Corporation Photos by Robert. Gabriella Charter Corporation dumped the contents Logan Street Public Elementary School's room 32 into room 31 without asking or notifying anyone.


Greater Echo Park Elysian Neighborhood Council's (GEPENC) CIO Lisa Baca-Sigala took photographs and notified the Los Angeles Unified School District's (LAUSD) Office of the General Counsel that Gabriella Charter Corporation had not only seized Logan Street School's Room 32, but had moved the contents of that room into Room 31 without permission or even the courtesy of notifying Logan's principal, Mr. Luis Ochoa. Moreover, the impromptu move damaged the rooms in question and some of the items that were moved.


Even more:


From the album:
Logan Street ES occupied by Gabriella Charter Corporation Photos by Robert.
Gabriella Charter Corporation occupying Logan Street Public Elementary School's auditorium


This has been going on for a while. This is from 2009 in the NYT:

City’s Schools Share Their Space, and Bitterness

Suzanne Tecza had spent a year redesigning the library at Middle School 126 in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, including colorful new furniture and elaborate murals of leafy trees. So when her principal decided this year to give the space to the charter high schools that share the building, Ms. Tecza was furious.

“It’s not fair to our students,” she said of the decision, which gives the charter students access to the room for most of the day. “It’s depriving them of a fully functioning library, something they deserve.”

..."In Harlem, parents have chafed and picketed against an expanding charter school network, the Harlem Success Academy, which is housed in several public schools. In Brownsville, Brooklyn, a plan to close a failing elementary school and let a charter take over the building was shelved after a lawsuit. At P.S. 15, teachers and parents were furious about plans for PAVE to expand next year, after having been told the school would be gone by the end of this academic year. Several hundred parents filled a middle school auditorium in Marine Park, Brooklyn, in the spring to rail against a proposal to house the new Hebrew Language Academy there. The school eventually found a home in a yeshiva.

Charter schools, privately run but publicly financed, are generally nonunion, freeing them from labor restrictions. They have gained traction with their promise of innovative teaching methods and more flexible work rules for teachers. Arne Duncan, President Obama’s education secretary, has told states that they must remove impediments to charter schools as a condition of winning so-called Race to the Top grants.


Here are some problems with another public school which is having to accommodate a charter in their building.

A City School’s Uphill Fight Over Sharing Space With a Charter

There is a middle school in the P.S. 9 building, M.S. 571, but it is low-performing, and on Dec. 6, the Department of Education announced plans to phase it out. That got P.S. 9 parents thinking. Why not use the soon-to-be-vacant space in their building to expand to eighth grade? “I talked to several people about the idea,” said Christina LaBrie, a lawyer who has two children at P.S. 9.

But on Dec. 20, city officials unveiled a holiday surprise. The department said it planned to move a middle-grade charter school — Brooklyn East Collegiate, a member of the Uncommon Schools charter chain — into the space opening up at P.S. 9.

In the four months since, P.S. 9 parents have fought City Hall, scoring a few upset victories. But they have also learned a hard lesson: once the mayor’s people set their sights on a location, the chances of successfully challenging a charter are slim.
Supporters of district schools fear that once a charter moves in, it will take over the building. They resent being compared academically, when on average, charters in New York City have fewer poor, immigrant and special-education students.

Even before the P.S. 9 parents got started, they were too late. To add a middle school, department regulations required P.S. 9 to have filed a letter of intent by April 13, 2010; the final application was supposed to have been filed by July 15, 2010.


There are other examples of this, it is going on all over. It is causing divisiveness between the public and charter schools. The charters usually win out.

KIPP charter school invades NY public school with "A" grade....read the views of both sides.

There are several important reasons why charter schools not only harm public school children, but are a direct threat to public education as we know it. The harm is not ideological in nature, it is direct. I just attended the expansion hearing of KIPP into PS 195 in Harlen this Monday - and it is heartbreaking to hear that PS 195 students have class in the cafeteria. The teacher must ask the other students who are having lunch to quiet down, so instruction can happen. And if this isn't unbelievable enough, KIPP is expanding from its current grades of 5-8, to K-8.

More than a few PS 195 teachers got up to demand that KIPP teachers stop threatening charter school students with the admonishment,"Do you want to be like them?" The lesson hammered into these children every single day in that partitioned environment is one of segregation. The public school students are made to feel less, and the charter school children learn that personal advantage gained by harm to others is not only an entitlement of their talent, but a necessity.


And there is a very good question at the link:

The actions of these NYC charters however tell a much different tale than the benevolent words they speak. They are invading spaces of A rated schools (examples, ps. 15 in Redhook Brooklyn, ps 123, and ps. 195 in Harlem, etc.) If the claim is to want to help the neediest children, then why are they choosing buildings with A rated public schools that are successfully helping their communities. And when you see the comparisons between the two co-located schools in the same building, why is it, that the charter school has significant lower special ed and ELL students than it's counterpart - when they both seemingly draw from the same community?


Good question. Pretty clear that charters might have been a good idea in the beginning, but once it became more like corporatizing and privatizing....it was not a good idea at all.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. LOL, what crap. That poster is one of the best of DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. WTF?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indurancevile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
37. knr. privatizing the commons. taking over property (buildings, land) belonging to cities,
Edited on Sun Aug-28-11 03:02 PM by indurancevile
counties, states, paid for by taxpayers.

eating the seed corn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
999998th word Donating Member (555 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #37
63. Profitization/privatization is outright STEALING from
Edited on Mon Aug-29-11 01:37 AM by 999998th word
the citizens who PAID for the shit in the first place.

Wait until they complete the takeover of the water supplies etc...than we are truly effed. Sickening.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. There is no better poster on DU when posting on education issues.
You've made the assertion - back it up. What 'unreliable and distorted information' has the OP posted? Links are preferred.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
60. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Welcome to the new DU. Abandoning the reality based community for the rumor based community.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. You said it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PatrynXX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
42. sound like a freeper
:(

what rumor? pictures speak louder than words
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
56. What sound like a freeper?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
64. My reply was not to the OP (a DUer who I admire very much) but to reply #1 which has since
been deleted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. K & R for real information that some don't want to hear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks, yes I can tell some don't want to hear it.
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. Rec'd, but still at 0.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
49. Wonder how much of the Ed Dept. funds go to pay for trolls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. Well-funded, politically-protected, BULLIES
:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Yes, well-funded by the billionaire boys club....and protected by
this administration which is finalizing Bush's goals in education. Bullies they are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 04:42 AM
Response to Original message
11. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
12. Anything to undermine high-functioning schools. Another travesty. REC. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
14. Arne Duncan's a real motherFUCKER, isn't he?
There are very few people in the world to whom I'd love to deliver a right hook, and he's one of 'em!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. K&R n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
17. Another K&R.
Madfloridian, you post the most interesting education articles. I read all your OP's. Wish I had seen the first posters comment though. I am tired of people defending a system that robs the taxpayer of having any input into education. I hate private entities running public schools because they really don't do any better (in many cases worse) than the existing system. Yes, the system could use improvements but privatizing it is not the way to go.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. I hate to see good teachers ridiculed in the name of some corporate reform.
And I believe this administration could put a stop to a lot of the teacher bashing if they chose to do so.

Thanks for the nice words. They are rushing headlong into "reform" that has not been proven to work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. I hate to see good teachers ridiculed too.
My family (Mom, Stepfather, Aunt and Grandmother) were all teachers. I don't understand the teacher bashing since the teachers that were in place at least had education degrees and cared about their students. Turning public education into a business pisses me off because they are using our money to do it and dumbing down our kids to meet test requirements.

I get so embarrassed for some of the young people I run into. Many can't even count change or don't have any concept of money when a mistake is made. For example, one day I went to a pet store to buy dog food. There was a young girl (18-19) working part time. I bought about $30 worth of food and other items. She rang up $67. I said, noooooo....that is definitely not right. She said "yes it is. That's what the register says". I asked her to cancel and redo it. She rang it up incorrectly again. It was obvious when you looked at the price of the items that $67 was way off from the actual cost but she couldn't understand it. It really puzzled me. I had her cancel it again and took a piece of paper and added it all up for her. She finally figured out she had doubled the price of a couple of items (which I already knew) and got it right but she really didn't realize the mistake. Very sad.

Thanks for your posts and I will keep following!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. do these charters have to pay a rent or something? these building were funded and built off
tax payers dollars. it is all about capitalism.

i cannot stand what is happening to our schools.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I know they get taxpayer money. I doubt they pay rent.
One charter, White Hat, sued to get possession of buildings and property paid for by taxpayers. I don't know the outcome of the lawsuit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. wow, just another amazing.
makes me sick corps/people get away with this
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roxiejules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. NYC parents sue DOE over free rent for charters
New York City Parents File Lawsuit Against Separate and Unequal Charter Co-locations and Illegal Free Rent and Services to Charter Schools - 7/25/11

http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/2011/07/our-charter-school-co-location-lawsuit.html


The New York City Parents Union, Class Size Matters and public school parents today filed a lawsuit charging the New York City Department of Education with creating a "separate and unequal" education system through the co-locations of charter schools in public school buildings.


In New York City, charter schools are private non-profit education corporations which have contracts called "charters" with an authorizer such as the New York State Education Department or State University of New York to provide educational services. Charter schools are publicly funded but, to date, have usually been managed either by a for-profit corporation or by a non-profit corporation who has hired a for-profit corporation to assist with management. In these cases, a private entity is deriving a profit -- a profit that is not necessarily benefiting our children. The NYC Department of Education provides space and services to charter schools for $1 per year that according to state law should be charged “at cost”. Next year the amount of space and services provided by the city to co-located charters will be nearly $100 million per year. These are funds desperately needed by our public schools at a time of scarce resources and sharp budget cuts.


Arthur Z. Schwartz of Advocates for Justice, lead attorney in this litigation says: "For several years now the NYC Department of Education has done all that it can to promote charter schools, acting not only to bring them into existence, but providing them with resources far in excess of what children in non-charter schools receive. The most odious circumstances arise where schools are co-located. Today we are filing and serving a lawsuit which addresses the unlawful nature of the DOE's program. We are going far beyond a procedural challenge, alleging far more than that the DOE didn't follow the steps in the statutory process correctly. Today we raise three substantive challenges.


First, we are challenging to provision of FREE space and services to charter schools. There is no question that this action violates state law, providing an unlawful subsidy to co-located charter schools. It is a policy which allows them to spend their money on staff, supplies and equipment rather than rent and creates gross inequities between the charter schools and their building-mates, and between charter schools in their own facilities and co-located schools. We are also challenging the DOE on the impact of co-location on the education of the public school students in the building asserting that the co-locations will increase class size and undermine children's constitutional right to a sound and adequate education. Finally, we are challenging the co-location process, which is supposed to be a "meaningful public process" as being nothing of the sort: dominated by boilerplate documents, difficult for parents to understand, not properly translated, and issued beyond statutorily mandated deadlines. Parents’ views are solicited but ignored, and in the impact statements, inadequate attention is paid to children with disabilities and English language learners.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. thanks. very good article addressing the issues
i have not been following this at all. too pissed. appreciate an article that informs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Thanks, I had been looking for that article. Much appreciated.
I thought I had saved a link, but couldn't find it. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indurancevile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dappleganger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
21. This is government supported theft.
I am tired of Arne Duncan and his ilk telling us to bend over and take it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chervilant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
22. Wow, Mad...
As I read your latest excellent installment hereinabove about the ongoing corporate assault on public education, I thought surely all of the comments about your inarguable OP would *finally* be positive. Imagine my surprise (and dismay) as I discovered that the first comment (now deleted) was a slam, apparently accusing you of providing 'unreliable and distorted information.'

We are witnessing the deliberate dismantling of our system of public education. And you are one of the few activists here in DU documenting this egregious history as it happens, providing a chronological, comprehensible, and essential record of the death throes of a critical element of our grand democracy. And, yet, naysayers crawl out of the woodwork to slam your efforts.

I remain hopeful that we--the varied and vital members of the hoi polloi--will rise up in rebellion soon, to throw off the shackles of oppression and bondage forged by the unfettered hedonism of the uber wealthy. If we do not, we can anticipate that a good education will be the milieu of those who can afford it--and that won't be us.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
23. K and R
We need to wake up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
25. K & R !!!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
27. K & R
:wtf:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roxiejules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
30. K&R!
Thanks, mad!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
33. A backstory on the co-location....the charter thinks it is only about them.
The article is written in those terms. The public school's doubts are mentioned, but dismissed quickly.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/04/after-more-than-30-years-in-the-education-trenches-richard-alonzo-became-known-as-a-toughdetermined-la-school-administra.html

"Logan was an obvious choice to Alonzo because the school’s current enrollment of about 500 students is about half its capacity. And the location suggested to him that Gabriella could deliver a supply of well-prepared dancers to the new arts high school that opened downtown in September.

But the idea of a charter school at Logan met with intense local opposition, some of which continues to this day. Critics worried about increased neighborhood traffic, among other concerns. Some simply objected to any charter school. Charters operate independently of direct school-district control and most are non-union.

The Los Angeles Unified School District spent about $1.5 million to make a home for Gabriella at Logan. Besides the dance studios, the district had to bring ramps, restrooms and other areas up to code. The money came from a bond fund reserved for charter schools, but critics still objected to upgrades that mostly benefited the charter portion of Logan.

And once the year began, the schools had to coordinate use of the playground and other shared portions of the campus. The charter rented a parking lot for its staff and hired a caterer to provide lunch service..."


Amazing how they find all that money for charters, but so little for public schools.

It is so disheartening.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
34. Hebrew Language Academy?
Edited on Sun Aug-28-11 02:58 PM by sulphurdunn
From what I've been able to find there are ethnic and religious charter schools popping up everywhere. Catholic schools take the icons down and get public charters. There are also so called secular charter schools for Muslims and evangelical Christians. Now Jews. Who's next? The only correlation I can find in all of this is money. These ethnocentric, religious designer charters seem to be joined at the hip with people who have big bucks and segregationist agendas.

http://www.forward.com/articles/13482/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. At least 8 Catholic schools in FL became charters to get taxpayer money.
Yep, they took down the religious trappings, and promised not to teach religion...but the same staff, same administration remained.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. I find all of this very troubling.
It seems as though we're moving backwards, and that the goal of some very powerful people is the Balkanization of this country along racial, religious, ethnic and class lines. Definitely not what MLK had in mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indurancevile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. the biggest chain of charter schools in the us = the gulen network, affiliated
with a shady turkish religious leader living in exile in the us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sulphurdunn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Apparently, they use public money
to import teachers from Turkey and hire only vendors and contractors with ties to the Turkish community and the Gulen religious sect.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/07/education/07charter.html?pagewanted=all
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
36. This is so despicable
Mad, have you seen Inconvenient Truth Behind Waiting for Superman? One of the teachers in it describes a charter moving into her school.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. I was going to order that. I got sidetracked.
Do you have the link handy? I thought I bookmarked it. I sure am losing a lot of links lately.

Or, I can just look it up...:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Here
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
44. Thanks for bringing this to our attention, madfloridian
Welcome to the new world order.

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
46. Very classy furniture there in the Charter Teachers' Lounge, er, Auditorium.
While tax payers won't share in the profits, their children certainly will enjoy the luxury of seeing what they, too, may attain at the public trough.

Thank you for the heads-up, madfloridian. Integrity should be the first thing in the curriculum.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scottybeamer70 Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. Thanks, madfloridian......
for all of your information.
It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they start taking over public schools at the point of a gun.
I'm sure it has crossed their minds more than once!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
48. That's the last straw
This administration does not respect the Democratic Platform.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
50. Obama's point guard gets his two points.
arne will never need a teacher's retirement (not that he ever taught). He will be raking in the payment for services rendered for a long time.

arne is just another of many blotches on the Obama record.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
51. How do charter school teacher's salaries compare
with unionized public school teacher's salaries?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
52. Thanks Arne Duncan you asshat! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reACTIONary Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
53. Catholic Conversion...
Edited on Sun Aug-28-11 07:48 PM by reACTIONary
RE: Yep, they took down the religious trappings, and promised not to teach religion...but the same staff, same administration remained.

Personally, I'm against charter schools for a variety of reasons and we need to keep pointing those reasons out. But I would like to point out that this represents a capitulation, of sorts, by the Catholic schools. Their REAL preference would be to receive public assistance in the form of "vouchers". With vouchers, they are allowed to retain their religious character up front, with no pretense. But vouchers are not succeeding politically and parochial schools are failing to pay for themselves - they are closing down. Secularizing them and turning them into charters is an "exit strategy" for them. My bet is they are on the way out entirely.

I think that parochial schools originally served an urgent or real need for the Catholic community to protect their children from the public schools' explicit support for protestantism. With the secularization of our public schools, this need no longer exists. Catholics can send their children to (most) public schools without fearing forced exposure to protestant theology and anti-Catholicism. Thus parochial schools are not getting the support they historically have had from the Catholic community.

My view is that vouchers are a much greater threat to public schools and secular society than charter schools are. Charter schools remain (nominally) under public control and cannot force religious views on their students. This does not mean they are not a threat, but as a way of diffusing the greater threat of voucher programs, they may make sense as a tactical choice.

What would REALLY kill charters would be to require them to pay union wages and benefits. That could be presented as a fair and reasonable restriction on any institution receiving public funding. It would remove the real motivation behind a lot of the political support charters receive. AND if the charter advocates fought back, it would publicly expose a nasty part of their agenda that does not get enough attention. Instead of it being about "what is best for the kids", it suddenly is all about screwing teachers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Charter schools are allowed their own curriculum in many cases.
So what would keep them from teaching religious views though they promised not to do so?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reACTIONary Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. That's true. Vigilance is the price of freedom...
In my experience as a member of American's United there have been many cases where charter schools have been found to violate both the letter and the spirit of the law. And it should be no surprise to you that the same holds true with public schools.

However, with charter schools there is recourse, with vouchers, there is not. Voucher schools do not have to follow first amendment restrictions at all.

Please understand, I am not an advocate of charter schools. I think they are a threat to public schools and are being advocated by folks who are less interested in our children's proper education and more interested in indoctrinating a captive and pliant population to their ideological/religious principles.

They are, however, a retreat from vouchers and vouchers are a greater threat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Riley18 Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
57. I had no idea it had gotten so horrible. As a teacher, how could I endorse an
administration that is determined to destroy me? Arne Duncan is just the messenger boy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
58. K & R
...excellant posting madfloridian.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
59. Please excuse my ignorance, but what is wrong with charter schools?
My sister attended a charter school and was quite satisfied with it. Then she went on to UNLV and she has been getting excellent grades there. The charter school she attended did her no harm. I know this is anecdotal, but this is the only experience I have with charter schools. I attended conventional public schools myself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-28-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. They get money that should be going to public education...
yet they are unregulated.

Here's a whole page and more about what is wrong.

http://charterschoolscandals.blogspot.com/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. I do not excuse any of the abuses mentioned in that article. But...
isn't the fact that my sister got a good education at a charter school worth something?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. I am glad she got a good education. They should not deprive public schools...
to give money to schools that not regulated by school districts and answerable to taxpayers.

If a school gets tax money, it should be a public school regulated and overseen by the local school district.

If they were not defunding public schools and giving the money to charters, there would be more kids getting a quality education.

You can't take money away from something and demand more of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-29-11 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
62. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC