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Can someone point me to a source discussing how the Confederate Flag reappeared as a state symbol?

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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 09:42 AM
Original message
Can someone point me to a source discussing how the Confederate Flag reappeared as a state symbol?
I'm not talking about any current controversies nor do I wish to start a debate on "heritage vs. hate" etc.

I'm just curious how it came to be that the symbol of a conquered nation that vanished out of existence came to be part of official state flags in the South. I'm sure that this wasn't the case right after the Civil War and during Reconstruction, I understood it to be a more recent political event (?40s? ?50s?).

Wikipedia doesn't provide me useful information about this, a good source or two would be appreciated.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Review here.....
...of a book-length treatment of the topic. Google Books may have snippets.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thank you, that looks great!
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'll try
In South Carolina it was 'supposedly' to commemorate the Civil War.
http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/confederate_flag.HTM

Was it really? Or was it a shot at the Civil Rights movement? Maybe it was an ineffective shot - as the "Orangeburg Movement" started in summer of 1963.

And did you ever hear of the Orangeburg Massacre? It pre dated Kent State - just horrific. It's kind of hidden though because black kids getting shot in the back didn't make as good a news story as white kids getting shot in Ohio.

I can't speak for the other states - but my Uncle Doug was a student at Orangeburg in the early 1960's. A native of S.C. - he always felt it was directed at blacks to serve as a warning to not 'step out of line'.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thanks. I suppose the whole thing began as a political shitstorm over the Civil War Centennial.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Earlier than that -- Brown v. Board.
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. SC State Legislature?
After the Brown v. Board cases?
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Even earlier than that.
....the Dixecrat party didn't have an iconic animal like the Dem & GOP parties -- they used the Confederate battle flag.
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Agreed
I was talking about it being flown officially flag at the State Capitol.

Here's the thing - Kind of what OP posted. This is America. We're fed from day one a line about winning is the only thing, get ahead at all costs, knock the other guy out . . .

So in my mind- why would anyone want to be all happy and 'go team' for the 'loser'.

They lost. Loss is supposed to equate with 'shame' in America. Why no shame?

Granted my dad was STILL a Bills fan when he passed away two weeks ago - so it's not just Southern Conservatives and their little flag :rofl: who love a losing team.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Team White... n/t
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LuvNewcastle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. The state flag of Mississippi was approved
in 1894. The 13 stars on on the 'X' were supposedly there to represent the original 13 colonies. Yeah, right.:eyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. The Confederate Flag only became a "State Rights" flay with the Second KKK in 1905
The Confederate Battle Flag was used by Southern Forces during the Civil War. The flag was adopted for at a distance the first Confederate National Flag looked to much like the Stars and Stripes (In the 1860s, units still used flags to "form up" for Combat thus it was an important military issue). What the South did was reverse the old Socttish National Flag (Red Stripes on a White Flag) to the While Stripes on a Red Flag, then added 13 stars to represent the States of the Confederacy AND Maryland and Kentucky.

Side Note: Battle Flags are by tradition Square (3x3, can be three feet, three inches etc, but the Flag's height is always the same size as its length), Mational Flags are 3x5 rectangular (Three feet, inches, meters etc in height and Five of the same unit in Length).

Now, in 1863 the South Adopted the Battle Flag as PART of its Second National Flag, the Battle flag is in the same corner as the Stars in the US Flag, the rest of the flag was white. In 1865 a Red Strip was added (Through if the flag was ever flown in a subject of debate given that Lee Surrender in April while the "Third National Color" had only been adopted in January). The South also adopted a Naval Jack for its warships. In the US Navy the Navy jack, which flies to the rear of the National Flag on a Ship, is just the Stars of the National Flag. The South adopted a 3x5 version of the Battle flag as its Naval Jack.

There is no reported use of the Battle Flag, the Naval Jack or the Confederate National during reconstruction for flying them came to mean rebellion which the occupying Northern Forces could use violence to suppress (and times were hard in the South, most materials even old flags were reused as material for other things, so most such flags disappear and are NOT reported till 1905).

Now, the Second KKK was formed in 1905 on Stone Mountain. The Second KKK adopted the Confederate Naval Jack (Which it called the Confederate National Flag and/or Confederate Battle Flag, both terms are used to this day by most people) as its symbol. This was to support the Second KKK's position that it was a continuance of the original KKK of the Reconstruction era (Which had been formed in 1866, and dissolved in 1870 as the Federal Government passed the Anti-KKK act of 1871, which is still part of the Civil Rights laws of the US). As the Second KKK expanded in the years between 1905 and the mid 1920s, the use of the Confederate Naval Jack (Referred to as the Battle Flag by ALL sides in the Civil Rights Debates) expanded. In the mid 1920s the KKK suffered a serious of scandals and like the tea party of today found that it had expanded so far that it no longer stood for anything by its leaders powers. As those leaders fell into scandals the Second KKK dissolved from what had been viewed as a pro-USA organization back to is racist roots.

As the KKK dissolved, parts of it reformed once again in what many historians call the Third KKK. Unlike the Second KKK which emphasis being pro-america in addition to being anti-African American, Anti-Jewish and Anti-Catholic, the third KKK was clearly a racist organization and emphasized this by making the Confederate Flay its symbol. As the move to give African American Civil Rights increase starting in the 1940s, the Third KKK became the violent organization we know from it height in the 1950s and 1960s (Not that the KKK was ever a non-violent organization, but the Second KKK down played its violence as a means of "Self defense" and the press went along with it down playing the violence).

Do to the above history, the South re-embraced the Naval Jack as its symbol during the 1950s and 1960s. Georgia and Mississippi even added it to their state flags in that period (Other southern State flew the Naval Jack below the Stars and Strips over their State Capitals).

Georgia 1956:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Georgia_(U.S._state)

1894 for Mississippi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Mississippi

Other states use of the Battle Flag:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-26-11 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thanks, a lot of good information in these replies!
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