President Obama on Shaky Ground with Teachers: Can He Firm Up Support?

[proud2BlibKansan]

President Obama has some very large problems heading into 2012, and one that might surprise those inside the DC beltway is an area that should be a bulwark of support for any Democratic candidate: education. Democratic candidates tend to support public services, and the unions that represent teachers and classified workers are supportive in return. Going into the 2008 campaign, candidate Obama played to this strength when he spoke to members of the NEA, promising to "fix the broken promises of NCLB." The NEA renewed its endorsement of President Obama last month, but that does not mean he is home free. On the ground, among teachers I know, the President has some big problems.

As I posted a few days ago, most of the leading candidates in the Republican primary have taken clear stands against NCLB and the further expansions of Department of Education influence that have occurred under this president. This resonates with a conservative base that instinctively rejects "big government" telling states and local school districts how to run their affairs. But it also resonates increasingly with teachers and parents who are fed up with their schools being labeled as failures, and with poorly conceived reform proposals being mandated as a condition of federal dollars.

There are about six million teachers in this nation. More than half of them belong to unions. Many of the "reforms" that have been pushed forward recently greatly reduce the ability of unions to represent their members, in that they eliminate seniority, or strip the contract down to bare bones, meaning that only salary and benefits are negotiated, and other critical matters such as working conditions, length of day and school year are left up to the discretion of the district. Teacher unions run the risk of becoming largely irrelevant if they lose the ability to protect teachers' rights to due process, and to effect the conditions under which we teach.

The Obama administration has been rather coy about this wave of reforms, suggesting that they support collective bargaining, while also supporting many of the policies that reduce the due process and seniority rights that teachers have had.

more . . . http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2011/08/president_obama_on_shaky_groun.html

[vi5]

1. Same approach for all core constituencies....

"What else are you gonna do? Vote for the Republican?"

This may get them votes, but they are going to need more than votes to win they'll need energy and support.

[rfranklin]

2. Yes, get rid of Arne Duncan and the others who support privitization...

but that won't happen.

[xchrom]

3. recommend

[Selatius]

4. He doesn't need to shore up his support at all.

All he has to say is that they have no choice but to vote for Obama. I mean, what are they going to do? Vote for Rick Perry?

[MadHound]

5. Stay at home.

That is the end result when a group thinks that neither side is doing right by them. They stay at home, and since Obama's reelection depends on massive turnout, such apathy could put him out of a job.

[newfie11]

10. That's exactly right, the will say screw it and not vote n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Vote third party

[msanthrope]

38. Which third party are you advocating? n/t

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. Education Week, huh? So i guess it's not just a handful of...

>>>>At this point, teachers are getting politically involved not to support Obama's candidacy, but to protest his policies. The Save Our Schools March a few weeks ago was attended by grassroots activists from dozens of states, many of whom are getting even more organized as they return home. Many of us were active campaigners and fundraisers for Obama in 2008. Not this time. This time, that energy is going into organizing to defend the schools in which we work from the policies his administration continues to pursue.>>>>


ideological, cranky, Ms. Grundys on DU after all.

Hmmm.... maybe there IS something fundamentally wrong with his educational policy. Maybe it IS embarrassingly indistinguishable from the ED policy of his predecessor. Maybe that's why Obama's "reforms" receive such enthusiastic .......I love it :)....... "bipartisan" support from the GOP.


Hmmmm....... Hmmmm....... Hmmmmm.............

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

8. Not reading past the title, because the answer is "NO." Charterized and closed schools, wholesale

firings/mass lay-offs, supported destruction of collective bargaining, non-support of tenure, threats to union pensions....ARNE DUNCAN.

No. The Big Brass of the NEA and AFT probably will endorse a second term, but the GOTV will be much weaker this go-round. We might belong to a "professional association," but we are unionists by any other name.

And the kid who didn't do anything all year who asks at the end what can he do to make up the work?
It's called "FAIL."

[VeryConfused]

9. NEA Endorses Obama's Bid for Second Term

shaky ground only in the minds of liberals who are working over time to undermine the Democratic party

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/nea-endorses-obamas-bid-f_n_889906.html

[roody]

11. or is it the Democratic Party working overtime to undermine

the working class?

[VeryConfused]

12. No it's the other way around

very clearly the other way around

[DrDan]

18. the NEA doesn't vote - teachers do

My wife is a teacher - and will hold her nose as she votes next November. No campaigning. No donation. No energy.

Trying to "undermine" the Democratic Party? You have to be kidding. You mean the ones who continue to support excellence in education, organized labor, etc? Are those the ones you categorize as undermining the party?

[VeryConfused]

19. There are teachers that vote for Republicans

what's your point? By the way with your wife sitting on her hands, is she ready to suffer the attacks she will face when the GOP sweeps into power and cuts her pay, pension and rights?

[DrDan]

25. you did read my post, right - I said she would hold her nose as she voted

get it?

And yes - we (my wife and I) know there are plenty of teachers that are R's. What's your point? As Obama pisses off the teachers with his corporate policies around education, there will be more.

[VeryConfused]

32. You said your wife is going to sit on her hands and let the tea baggers go

unchallenged in what they say and in money they raise.

[DrDan]

40. your id is appropriate

[VeryConfused]

41. I am curious if either of you feel any guilt

at letting others do all the work of keeping the GOP out of power

[DrDan]

47. you concern yourself with what you think is appropriate - and my wife and I will do the same

fair enough?

[VeryConfused]

50. No, because I don't appreciate you guys getting a free ride

on my back and the backs of everyone else fighting hard to keep the GOP out of power.

[DrDan]

56. so you think you can turn to intimidation to accomplish your goals?

In 2008, I campaigned, I contributed and I voted.

Guess what, pardner. Learned my lesson. 2 of those are not in my plans in 2012 (in terms of Presidential politics) - regardless of your indignation.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrDan]

66. so you think it is your role to determine "fair share" for the rest of us?

"false"? you should pay attention to what is happening.

[VeryConfused]

71. It's not hard to see you sitting on the sidelines sitting on your hands and booing

all of us that are working hard. I am not the only one that sees the inequity

[DrDan]

81. good luck with the intimidation strategy - I am sure it will pay off handsomely

[VeryConfused]

84. Yeah I am also "intimidating" the wealthy by wanting them to pay

their fair share of taxes. I am so damn intimidating it boggles the mind

[WinkyDink]

72. Oh, please. you have NO IDEA WHAT SOME OF US HERE HAVE DONE TO ELECT DEMOCRATS. SO STHU on that.

[VeryConfused]

77. Spending all day on the internet bashing the Democratic President and the Democratic party

"helps the Democrats get elected?!?! Who knew

[sabrina 1]

78. Still confused? The point made by the commenter was clear

When a politician does not work for our interests, we don't work for his. A vote is the most this president will get this time from many of those who were responsible for helping to get him elected last time. And some, mostly left-leaning Independents will do what they did in 2010.

Actions have consequences. Adults take responsibility for their actions, immature children blame everyone else. The Educational policies of this administration have been worse than Bush's and I thought that was pretty nearly impossible.

He could start turning things around by firing Arne Duncan and appointing someone who actually knows something about how children learn and who cares people over money.

Anything short of that will not convince parents and teachers that any promises made mean anything at this point. Promises were made before and not kept, action not words will be necessary this time.

[VeryConfused]

80. Your claim that the Democrats and POTUS don't support teachers is factually incorrect

All the rest of the nonsense on why you will sit on your hands is just self (and the nation as a whole) destructive nonsense

[indurancevile]

85. actually, yours is factually incorrect. watch their hands, not their mouths.

[VeryConfused]

88. Instead I believe my own eyes rather than what I hear on this website

[indurancevile]

100. do you have glaucoma?

[VeryConfused]

108. Your not going to go into another ill advised medical analogy

are you?

[sabrina 1]

111. Arne Duncan has been fired?

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. Ok. I'll play. How have the Democrats and the POTUS supported teachers?

[JNelson6563]

82. Oh yes, the R's are winning the hearts and minds of teachers everywhere

especially in WI & MI. Yes, they will abandon Obama and their union to join the teacher-hating union busters.

Can't believe I waded into DU without waders! It's so deep in here anymore.... :eyes:

Julie

[DrDan]

huh?

[VeryConfused]

91. Hey there is a Facebook page that is working to help the GOP do just that

[JNelson6563]

113. And any teacher who signs up is too stupid to be teaching

Damn I'm glad my kids are done with high school years.

[proud2BlibKansan]

116. LOL the teachers who are the most active participants on that page are NPBTS

National Board Certified teachers.

But you think they are too stupid to be teaching. :rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. It was the lowest approval percentage in the history of NEA endorsements

Somehow that fact is left out of many arguments.

[VeryConfused]

23. What's amazing is how teachers are proving to be their own worst enemies

few people suffer more at the hands of the Republican's hateful and extremist agenda than teachers. Yet instead of teachers rallying behind the one group that is capable of stopping the GOP, they spend far too much time weakening and undercutting the people that can save them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. But what is that one group actually DOING to stop the GOP??

I also don't believe there's a teacher in America who believed Obama would continue Bush's education agenda. But now that he has, what do you expect teachers to do?

I've been politically active nearly all my life. I'm a lifelong Democrat. I knocked on doors for JFK with my parents when I was 6 years old. I've seen the Democrats do and not do a lot of things that frustrated me. But I've never been so frustrated or discouraged with anyone I've voted for as much as I am with President Obama.

I still like him as a person and believe he's a good man who believes he's doing what's right. But his education policies are just horrifically bad. I don't know how else to describe it.

[VeryConfused]

26. Seriously? You seriously think the Democrats are not trying to stop the GOP?

If that's the case we have nothing to talk about.

[PVnRT]

29. How about actually addressing what she said?

You know, instead of just coming up with what I'm sure you think is a clever counter-argument.

[VeryConfused]

31. I am addressing what she said

she made that point like it was a given, before going into a rambling rant against the Democratic party. Those "givens" are often far more important than the comments based on the "given". So if you want to get to the heart of the matter and have real debate, you can't let false "givens" go unchallenged.

[PVnRT]

36. No, you're not

You offer no counter-argument to what she said, just another casual dismissal that's become common amongst the Obama-right-or-wrong crowd around here. Your user name is very appropriate.

[VeryConfused]

43. Her argument was fatally flawed based on her first stated assumption

sorry to disappoint you

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. I'm not assuming anything

I'm basing my statements on facts. It's a fact that the Obama administration has continued Bush's education agenda. How is that helpful?

[VeryConfused]

65. No you tried to pass a biased inaccurate opinion as fact

and I don't appreciate that

[proud2BlibKansan]

117. Oh so now it's an opinion that Obama has continued Bush's education policies??

Do tell. Which of Bush's education policies has Obama abolished?

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. That's not what I said

Perhaps you should go back and read my post and my question again.

[DrDan]

27. save them? This administration has no goal of saving teachers' positions.

[VeryConfused]

33. That's an incorrect statement based on biases rather than fact

[DrDan]

42. nope - based on the actions of this administration

[indurancevile]

87. lol. yeah, that's the ticket: black is white, day is night, that'll work.

but not for very long.

[PVnRT]

28. Why should they rally when Obama leans to the GOP side anyway on education?

[VeryConfused]

34. You clearly have not been paying attention

otherwise you never would have made that utterly silly statement

[PVnRT]

35. You clearly have no facts to back up your case

Else you would actually make arguments.

[VeryConfused]

49. What world do you live on

in mine, it's a given that the GOP is openly hostile to teachers and will do everything they can to hurt them.

[Generic Other]

51. Too many are not paying attention

and this is probably good for Obama. Those who are paying attention are mostly mad at him. Like me. And the other teachers who post on DU. We have been reading all the articles about NCLB, Arne Duncan, charter schools, Obama's disdain for teachers' unions.

Even outside our political wonk bubble, the word is getting out though. Sorry that upsets the applecart.

[VeryConfused]

52. Intelligence comes not from consuming as much news as possible

rather it comes from critical thought and analysis

[DrDan]

57. or ignoring the positions of this administration.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrDan]

67. whatever . . . enjoy the denial

[VeryConfused]

73. I will not enjoy working nearly as much as you are enjoying

taking advantage of me and all the other people working to make the nation better.

[DrDan]

86. as I said - enjoy the denial. A better strategy would be to listen to the

first-hand accounts found in this thread.

But of course, that would introduce all that dissonance. Denial would be much easier.

[VeryConfused]

92. Now you have finished with the false victim hood card and have moved on to projection

you are certainly a skilled ideologue

[Generic Other]

103. What an insulting post

from someone who has lots to learn about argument and persuasion.

[WinkyDink]

68. YOU are the one not paying attention to THIS Dept of Ed's actions.

http://failingschools.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/more-bullying-from-sec-of-ed-duncan/

[VeryConfused]

83. It's not hard to spot article that are long on hyperbole and short on fact

they use headlines that suggest departments are engaging in bullying. As educators it should be apparent how morally repugnant it is to belittle the very serious problem of bullying by misusing the term to further one's agenda.

[Marr]

37. Sadly, the question is can they afford to give people like Obama support.

If he wins after working so hard to undermine the interests of teachers, it will, naturally become the new normal. He will have employed a winning strategy, and teacher's support can reasonably be considered a given, no matter what you actually do while in office.

[VeryConfused]

46. It's clear the President cares deeply about educating our children

for me to accept your statement as fact, I would have to believe teachers don't care. I will not do that, as I know teachers care.

[WinkyDink]

48. Two words: Arne. Duncan.

[VeryConfused]

53. that was a lame post, as one would have to have bought into

some very unfair and dishonest demonization of Mr Duncan

[WinkyDink]

69. You like the wholesale firing of teachers and charter-izing public schools?

[VeryConfused]

79. Show me where Duncan says that's his policy

[indurancevile]

90. it doesn't fucking matter what he SAYS. we see what he DOES.

[VeryConfused]

93. What he does matters, that's why I don't bother to believe all the anti-Duncan

nonsense I see poster here

[indurancevile]

96. lol. you don't have to "believe" in heart attacks either, but it doesn't stop the pain.

[VeryConfused]

98. Actually the heart attack's (or AMI) real problem is the permanent damage

to the heart and not the pain. Heck, many people don't even experience pain from a heart attack. Which only goes to show that there is a lot in this world you know little about including politics and our President's education policy.

[indurancevile]

105. obama's ed policy = permanent damage. i'm done with you.

[VeryConfused]

107. repeating an incorrect statement over and over again

doesn't make it any more correct. It simply classifies your post as propaganda.

[proud2BlibKansan]

58. Wow. What planet have you been living on for the last two years?

How have the Democrats in this administration helped teachers and/or public education?

Stimulus funds don't count. They're gone now.

[VeryConfused]

94. I live on the planet where POTUS and the Dems used stimulus

money to help keep teachers employed. The same planet where the president pushed trough 26 billion last year to keep teachers employed.

The real question is what planet do you live on.

[indurancevile]

97. you might look at the stipulations on that "stimulus". but that would be work.

[sabrina 1]

112. Really? I remember when Bush's SOE insulted the teacher's

unions, he was forced to apologize, and airc, eventually to resign. Is Arne Duncan still around?

[WinkyDink]

45. As I posted above: The Brass don't GOTV.

[VeryConfused]

54. That's right as you stated above, many teachers will sit on their hands

and enjoy the fruits of the labor of those of us fighting to keep the GOP out of power.

[WinkyDink]

70. March on!

[VeryConfused]

109. Well that's better than you throwing eggs as us, as we work

to make the Country a better place

[Kurmudgeon]

13. His support will firm up once we know who the GOP nominee is.

Look how things changed once every one got a good look at the McCain-Palin ticket. I expect the same this time around unless the GOP nominates someone who is actually not a right wind radical and clinically insane. Highly unlikely.
Too bad for the Republicans that they can't run Generic GOP Candidate on the actual ticket.

[Generic Other]

44. Hey no need to be insulting!

Generic is NOT on the GOP ticket!

:scared:

[Reader Rabbit]

14. He would have to do a complete 180 on education.

And he'd have to admit that his education policies are wrong. I don't see that happening. Diane Ravitch is a bigger person, because she was able to look at what NCLB was doing to public education and realize it was wrong. And she had the courage to say so. I just don't see Obama doing the same thing. They suffer from a lethal combination of arrogance and ignorance when it comes to public education.

I could never bring myself to vote for a Republican, but for the first time in more than 20 years as an involved voter, I might stay home.

I'm not leaving the Democratic Party; the Democratic Party has left me (and all other teachers).

[woo me with science]

16. +1

The corporations have purchased both parties now, and education policy is not spared the effects.

[DrDan]

102. +1

[Danger Mouse]

15. Recommended. Obama's horrible education policy is my single biggest gripe with him.

And it is a big one. I can honestly say I never thought I'd see a Democratic president be so hostile towards educators.

[demmiblue]

39. Mine, too. n/t

[NNN0LHI]

17. You make the NEA sound like some monolithic group made up entirely of Democrats. Are they?

http://www.neaalaska.org/nea/node/235

Republican educators form caucus

Across the country NEA members who also belong to the Republican Party are working to reshape the GOP, change the platform to make it more supportive of public education, and lend their voices at the state, local, and national levels on issues important to educators. Here in Alaska Mat-Su EA member Shawn Arnold has formed the NEA-AK Republican Educators Caucus. The goal is to give a collective voice to Republicans with experience in the classroom or schools. The caucus, by serving as a source of information about both NEA-Alaska and the Republican Party, can help build bridges between the two organizations. Below is an article written for our website by Shawn:

Believe it or not, there are Republican educators who are also proud union members.

It isn’t a well known fact that an estimated 1 million of NEA’s 3.2 million members nationwide are politically Republican. This means NEA has a higher percentage of Republicans than those who identify themselves as Republicans nationally in the latest U.S. polls. NEA Republicans from across the country are working to reshape the Republican Party, change the platform to make it more supportive of public education, and lend their voices at the state, local, and national levels on issues that are important to the education profession. In Alaska, NEA-AK Republican Educators recently began a new initiative to give Republican members of NEA-AK a resource and opportunity to participate in both the association and the party.

--------------------

I don't think this group is planning on supporting President Obama no matter what he does. Do you?

[PVnRT]

30. You're right, who cares what they think?

:eyes:

[LWolf]

22. Not all of my fellow NEA members

are pleased with the current endorsement, to say the least. Why would my association endorse a candidate that has shown repeatedly that he doesn't represent us?

http://www.facebook.com/groups/161754330559955/

[VeryConfused]

55. Did the GOP set up that page?

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. No. Democrats who are teachers and NEA members set up that page.

There's another Facebook page called Teachers Letters to Obama. It was set up by a teacher who worked on Obama's 2008 campaign and wrote the OP.

[VeryConfused]

75. How do we know that to be the case, it would make more sense

for the GOP to set it up

[indurancevile]

101. your moniker describes you well. you are all over this page & obviously clueless about what's

happening with education.

go peddle the bullshit elsewhere.

[proud2BlibKansan]

118. We know that to be the case because "we" know these teachers

Anthony Cody was at SOS and I spent 4 days with him discussing these very issues. Other DU teachers were there as well. Cody is a Nat'l Certified teacher from Oakland, CA. He also has a blog on EdWeek that is one of the most widely read education blogs. And he worked on Obama's campaign in 2008. So did I. That would make us both DEMOCRATS. Not GOP.

[WinkyDink]

74. I guess accusing from whole cloth isn't foreign to you, as you want to think.

[VeryConfused]

76. LOL! so now asking if a website that helps the GOP was set up by the GOP

is someone accusing. Weird

[NNN0LHI]

89. You are right. They got way too defensive when you asked the question

Weird is a very good description of their reaction to your question.

Think you may have hit a nerve or two?

Don

[VeryConfused]

99. More like I pointed out the elephant in the room

that so many are trying to ignore

[indurancevile]

104. clueless. what's helping the gop is a democratic president governing from the right.

NO, TEACHERS WHO ARE GETTING LAID OFF, LOSING TENURE RIGHTS, GETTING LARGER CLASSES, GETTING REPLACED BY TEMPS, HAVING THEIR WORK ETHIC & SKILLS ATTACKED BY THIS ADMINISTRATION, LOSING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING RIGHTS SET UP THAT PAGE.

and your shilling doesn't change the truth.

Obama is the worst president for education in living memory. the worst.

and he is funded by people who are going to profit from it.

and your shilling doesn't change the truth.

[VeryConfused]

106. Of course what would help is if you opened your eyes

and realized the woes you mention are the GOP's doing. Sadly though, I suspect you will blissfully continue to blame our President for every one of the GOP's crimes, much to the detriment of our nation's well being.

[LWolf]

114. Nope.

Teachers did. Democratic teachers.

Edited to add: I hope you are no longer confused. Does it help if I tell you that it was started by a teacher I know?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. Teachers, like the poor, the elderly, the ill, have been reduced to political pawns.

Obama's been using them all as bargaining chips in making deals with the Republicans. And, as usual, the "love or leave it" wing of the party tells us we should be grateful for his efforts.

[hfojvt]

95. shaky ground?

another earthquake thread?

[Hubert Flottz]

110. LOL!1!!1!1!