I'm leaning more and more towards Socialism -- I blame MiddleFingerMomMom...

[MiddleFingerMom]

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... as she taught me to share and to help those less fortunate than myself.
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Ironically, SHE called it "The Christian Way".
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I'm leaning more and more towards this, too.
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[PDJane]

1. Good Plan.

We can no longer afford capitalism, if we ever could. It's become a very corrupt system.

[RKP5637]

7. Like many good ideas initially, it's turned into a train wreck! n/t

[elleng]

2. Its smashing itself.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/649635/mainstream_economist%3A_marx_was_right._capitalism_may_be_destroying_itself

[daleanime]

3. Yea, but how many good people...

is it going to take down also?:banghead:

[RKP5637]

8. Yep, eventually the uber-wealthy will destroy each other when they have run out of

others to screw.

[Zax2me]

33. And socialism fails when you run out of other peoples money.

Eventually the non-producers out-number the producers.
Why work hard if outcome is always equal?
What works in kindergarten doesn't translate to the real world.

[RKP5637]

36. Yep, it needs to be a hybrid system IMO, whatever that would be.

[Hydra]

37. You mean like the non-producing 1% in our country?

That borrow hundreds of billions of dollars from other countries and start wars?

We have plenty of people who work hard in America. The idea that they won't work hard for better wages and universal health care is absurd.

[Lunabelle]

4. Capitalism is one big pyramid scheme

And the ones at the bottom of the pyramid always get screwed.

[RKP5637]

5. Agree! Stop Corporate Welfare! n/t

[YellowRubberDuckie]

6. It is so nice to see you back!!

And in GD no less! And I absolutely agree. Jesus was a socialist, not a capitalist.
Duckie

[MiddleFingerMom]

9. Thanks. It's good to BE back. Heck... it's good to be ANYWHERE.

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[socialist_n_TN]

10. Join the club............

It's very exclusive (read small) right now, but growing by leaps and bounds! :)

[ShockediSay]

11. Democratic Socialism beats Fascism any day

Right Wing
Super Wealthy Funded
Corporation
Controlled
Media
Propaganda Pumping, Organized & Repitious
w/ Scapegoating
& Union Busting
=Fascist Regime

[rbnyc]

12. Kick

I'm kicking all the posts that are smarter than mine and below mine on the first page of GD.

I'll be replying in that thread by PM from now on.

[Cool Logic]

13. "... as she taught me to share and to help those less fortunate than myself."

Capitalism has raised the living standards of the less fortunate to the highest level in the history of the world. Thus, if you are sincere about wanting to help people you will pray the "Christian Way" for Capitalism.

Rather than "smashing" it to pieces like an irrational vandal in the night, we must cultivate the attributes which make it the best socioeconomic system for dealing with the imperfect nature of the human beings.

[Kceres]

14. Seems like a completely natural, logical evolution when you think about it. nt

[southernyankeebelle]

15. You are a social democratic. That is what I am. That is Jesus' way. I

honestly don't know what the heck the republican Jesus is because Jesus is for everybody not just the haves.

[MiddleFingerMom]

17. I guess so, but...

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[solara]

16. Excellent!

:kick:

[Recursion]

18. All depends on what you mean -- I don't think centralizing the means of production...

...has a very good track record either, let alone a dictatorship of the proletariat.

Advanced bourgeois social democratic capitalism (which is often called "socialism" today because the government owns or funds most of the infrastructure, particularly the health care system) is another matter, and is pretty awesome. But, maintaining the price signal and the bourgeois property system, it's basically the opposite of socialism (assuming we're still letting Marx define that). I don't know of a serious disagreement about macro anymore; even China is on board.

[leftstreet]

19. 'Advanced bourgeois social democratic capitalism' wtf is that?

That's still just capitalism

[Recursion]

20. Right: northern and western Europe, some of Asia and Latin America

There are very few economies Marx would consider socialist, possibly none with the reforms Cuba is engaging in.

[leftstreet]

21. If there are no true Socialist economies, how can they have bad track records?

:shrug:

[Recursion]

22. There aren't anymore. Cuba, NK, Syria

Iraq before we blew it up... they were the last holdouts. There were plenty throughout the 20th century (I've never really liked the "no true Scotsman" arguments about the early PRC, USSR, etc.)

[leftstreet]

23. Iraq had a 'dictatorship of the proletariat?'

:popcorn:

[Recursion]

24. Yep. And workers' control of the means of production.

And the local governance was done by revolutionary committees, etc.

[leftstreet]

25. Did they get dental with that?

Man I thought I was feeling the effects of a coupla beers...

[Recursion]

26. Sure, before the sanctions

Even after they got it in theory, there just wasn't much for the dentists to work with, but the dentists all got their paychecks from the state. As in all economies, the politically powerful made sure they got better stuff (this truth goes across all forms of economic and political organization), but there certainly was public health care.

But, before 91, Iraq had a health care system that was the envy of the middle east.

[leftstreet]

27. lol n/t

[Recursion]

28. Got evidence to the contrary?

Are you actually under the impression that health care in Iraq before 2003 was not state owned?

[leftstreet]

29. I'm waiting for you to finish your 10,000 edits per post

:eyes:

You have no idea what you're talking about, do you

[Recursion]

30. My claim is that Iraq had a state health care system until 2003

And it still does now.

Your claims otherwise have been, so far, incredulity, "lol", and complaining that I edit posts after thinking about them more. Fail.

[leftstreet]

Pan-arab socialism has NOTHING to do with marxist socialism

And I have no idea why you're babbling about Iraq's health care system

Maybe you better do some more thinking

[Recursion]

34. Nothing except being explicitly modeled after it

:eyes:

I think we're done here.

[white_wolf]

39. Did the workers have control of the means of production?

If not then none of those countries were socialist. The USSR and the countries modeld after it were State Capitalist. Hell, N.K. doesn't even mention socialism in their constitution anymore and the works of Marx have been banned since the 70s.

[Recursion]

40. Yes, as implemented through their revolutionary committees

That wasn't just a figment of Trotsky's imagination; it did actually happen.

What's that? The Revolutionary committees were too easily swayed and eventually totally controlled by the central party apparatus? Yes, indeed; though in fairness I believe capitalism has some structural weaknesses also.

[Zax2me]

31. You can do that now. Why aren't you?

she said the Christian way?
Okay.

Church.
Family.
Community.
You don't need the federal government for that.

You don't need to destry capitalism.

so, go. Start.

[Dragonfli]

35. Thousand points of light huh? That has been working soooo well the last 25 years /nt

[Hydra]

38. We don't have to destroy Capitilism

Capitalism is quite capable of destroying itself. It'll probably destroy us with it, but you'd be fine with that, I take it?

Give our lives for a failed myth?

[DU GrovelBot]

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