I don't think it matters much WHO gets elected POTUS. I see bad bad times a'comin'.

[cherokeeprogressive]

Bad times. Where will the jobs come from? Highway projects? I have news for those who don't spend their life on the road like I do... there is A FUCKING TON of roadwork going on at the moment. I see it all day every day. So much so that it fucks up my mph average.

There aren't and will NOT be enough jobs to take the unemployment rate below 8.5% any time soon. What, we're gonna give those with advanced degrees shovels and tell them "Here. Go. Your project is ready"? I don't think so.

Bad times ahead. Bad times on a scale that the current crop of 537 people who are sucking on the government tit (more than a few of them have been sucking on/getting rich from it for DECADES) will not be able to change in any meaningful way. Just a feelin' I get.

Green jobs? Not today, tomorrow, next week, month, year, or probably decade. Ain't happening no matter how many times we click our heels together and say "There's No Job Like Green".

Does anyone have an answer to the jobs problem? I don't, and I KNOW the government tit-suckers don't either.

Oooh baby... bad times a comin'.

[ixion]

1. Yep. Either way, it's gonna be rough

Look at Greece and Spain and Italy, etc... that's the path we're walking...

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. I just can't shake the feeling that we're headed for a 30's style depression.

I wish I could, but I can't.

[Odin2005]

3. 30's, you mean.

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. Typo. My bad. I'm in the back of a moving semi.

80 miles east of the NM/AZ border on I-40.

[NNN0LHI]

4. The depression I lived through occurred during the 1980's

I don't envision things getting much worse than they were back then.

Don

[Tallulah]

6. I went through that too

It was bad. I sometimes look back and wonder how we got through. I see the same things now. I'm sad to say I actually cleaned foreclosed homes back then. It was harsh.

I am saving every penny I have to buy a freezer. This time I'm going to stock up instead of getting worried if we can eat.

That depression prepared me for this recession.

[formercia]

56. I didn't realize there was one in the 80's until I read it here

...but, then, I was working in such a bubble, that, if it wasn't in a cable with my name on a distribution list, I didn't know about it.

...and you wonder why people inside the Beltway don't get it.

[leveymg]

5. Road construction is funded because the construction industry gives big $$$. You're right that this

does little for most people, particularly those of us in the service and knowledge industries, who make up about 70 percent of the American work force.

What's needed is a massive gov't loans program, something like the original GI Bill, but for EVERYONE. If you're not currently working, you should be given the opportunity to return to school with a living stipend or else receive a small business loan, or as a matter of last resort an appropriate government job. Those who can't work, should receive livable SSI support.

Of course, we'd have to return to the tax structure of 1946 to pay for this, when millionaires were paying a nominal 90 percent income tax and corporations paid about half the total tax burden.

[handmade34]

8. wrong... it does matter!!

I see hard times coming... I would much rather have a Democrat at the helm

[tridim]

9. Absolutely, they're the only party that has even attempted to offer solutions.

The GOP, and their eventual nominee don't give a rat's ass about our problems.

[fivepennies]

25. The people most responsible for taking us further into

bankruptcy - the federal reserve, Wall Street bankers and international corporations - would prefer to have a Democrat at the helm, as well, while they quietly vacuum up whatever crumb's are left from their secure hiding place behind the curtain. Then they'll be able to blame the Democrat "in charge".

So you may very well get your wish.

[jwirr]

42. Absolutely. I would trust the Democratic Party before I would trust the

rethugs.

Now I have a question for the OP: I agree with you regarding the future. What I want to know is where you are coming from - Kunstler and his "Long Emergency" or some other idea.

To me this is not just a "all you have to fear is fear itself" depression coming. I am with Kunstler. It has deeper roots in such things as oil depletion, climate change, over population etc. Even if we can prop the nation up for a while with "jobs programs" we are going to have to face the reality of a changing lifestyle sooner or later. Many of us here on DU are already taking steps to try to be prepared - stocking up, gardening, small farms, urban gardening, etc. Let us just hope that it is enough to keep us safe. But I would like to see a political party that would at least make an attempt to keep the idea of taking care of each other (Social Security, Health Care)if it is possible.

[oldlib]

46. RIGHT!

We need a Democratic President and congress. The GOOP would just screw things up.

[handmade34]

51. Democratic Pres

and majority in Congress come 2012 would bring some results... Republicans taking over the majority of the House has been disasterous... before this year, nancy Pelosi was able to move and shake things... we forget they got bogged down in the Senate where games were played and the Dems didn't have the power to fight a filibuster

[kath]

48. If only Obama were a Democrat...

[indepat]

10. BHO's tax cuts and his job-killing grand bargain with repugs which sets the framework to gut

social security and Medicare virtually guarantee bad times are a 'comin': what else could possibly come from giving the RW their wet dream of a lifetime? :shrug: :patriot:

[inna]

18. add to that NAFTA on steroids and deliberate anti-home owners, pro-bankster policies, and...

...one is starting to get a picture

[indepat]

22. Enough dots have emerged for at least a few to be connected: actually the whole mosaic is taking

shape. ;) :patriot:

[bvar22]

35. not to mention the Expanding Foreign WARS and Permanent Occupations.

It was the Foreign Wars/Occupations that brought down the Roman Empire, most other "empires",
and more recently, The Soviet Union.
When government reach a point where they take food & shelter from the citizens to fund Foreign Wars,
bad times soon follow.

[indepat]

47. Now America will be slashing money for food, shelter, medicine, and medical care

to fund, in part, BHO's tax cuts for the uber-wealthy and numerous foreign wars which doesn't bode well for society, especially for the old, the frail, and the poor. :shrug: :patriot:

[bvar22]

49. I agree.

I've seen this show before,
and it doesn't end well for the Working Class, the Retired, and the Poor.

Cherish your memories, SUCKERS!
because we're TAKING everything else!
Hahahahahahaha!



Solidarity!



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[OHdem10]

11. In bad times it matters the most which party is in power.

[Little Star]

36. I'm not so sure that's true anymore. n/t

[Donnachaidh]

52. and when the good guys do virtually NOTHING to stop the bad guys?

Or, even worse, offers up even more things to cut?

REALLY think it matters? Seriously?

[Ruby the Liberal]

12. If I had to pic my #2 scenario

I would rather give up the WH and hold super majorities in both houses of Congress.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. "It doesn't take a weatherman to see which way the wind blows." Bob Dylan

[bhikkhu]

34. The first step toward a sustainable culture is accepting a slow rate of growth

...and the situation of the planet re energy and resources pretty much dictates a slow rate of growth, such as we have had. Learning to live within its bounds is "the way the wind blows" currently.

[okieinpain]

14. Personally I think the corps are holding back the economy on purpose

They r making money and achiving their political goals at the same time

[handmade34]

15. would think that is common knowledge

by now

[Hydra]

39. Lots of people still in denial

After all, the corps are our "friends," right?

[kittykitty]

16. I can see another Dark Ages emerging, but at electronic speed. I know that sounds

Like a contradiction. But I can imagine a Caliphate from Pakistan to Turkey. Religious wars, Crusades, Inquisitions. Serfdoms. Declining educated classes worldwide. Something like that. I admit this has not been thought out. Just a feeling. . . .

[Hydra]

40. Just replace the words

"Caliphate" to "Democracy"(Like the kind in Iraq and Afghanistan) and "Religious Wars" to "Economic takeovers" and you have it right.

[WhiteTara]

17. I think that if POTUS is a repuke

it will be soooo much worse. Don't give in to the apathy.

[Booster]

19. 1st step for this country to begin to get back on it's feet is to

stop these G-damn wars. The idiots in Wash DC prefer to see the corporations who are packing it in get even more rather than even trying to save our own country. It's shameful and treasonous.

[coalition_unwilling]

20. 18 more months of a Do Nothing Repuke Congress and the

Appeaser in Chief should be enough to push the unemployment rate above 10%.

Then, under President Romulan, things will get really nasty -- we'll see unemployment hit 25% (shades of 1933).

What needs to happen right now is a massive fiscal stimulus program like the WPA (which did not hand shovels to everyone, btw).

[closeupready]

26. I'd bet that if they counted unemployment using the same 1933 metric used back then,

you'd find unemployment is 25% or more right now.

Difference now is you have a modicum of a social safety net that simply didn't exist back then.

[coalition_unwilling]

50. I'm not an expert in the various metrics used. The 9.1% figure

is the so-called U2 figure. I've seen the U-6 figure (which I believe comes closer to the 1933 methodology) pegged as high as 17-18% currently.

What seems beyond question to me is that, given Repuke control of the Executive and Legislative branches, Repukes will shred whatever modicum of safety net we do have left (like, for example, unemployment insurance), thereby pushing U-2 to 1933 levels by reducing aggregate demand in the economy at the time when we should be using government to increase aggregate demand.

[uponit7771]

21. BULLSHIT!! We've already gone through TOUGH times with a bad president. Obama might not be what the

...far left wants but at this time he's kept his promises and progressed the country despite the hatred

[jannyk]

28. WTF are you talking about?

[Hydra]

41. The usual stuff

Talking points without factual basis, appeals to our fears of the other party, shouting down everyone else with various levels of profanity.

Just a usual day for the pbp croud.

[Major Hogwash]

23. Jesus Christ, another "gloom and doom" post about our future.

Who knew so many people would start sounding like Glenn Beck at DU??

[durablend]

54. Yeah, seriously people

Clap louder and go read "The List" and you'll feel better!

[closeupready]

24. Warren Buffett was on Charlie Rose the other night - now,

I know he speaks out of self-interest, just like a lot of us do, but if it's worth anything, he claimed that BH's holdings are all SLOWLY doing better than in 2008 - so he was VERY optimistic about this time next year, where we'll be. If they put Rose's shows online, try and find it - it was an excellent, encouraging interview.

Meanwhile, as for me, I do believe the worst is over, but things will not get better as rapidly as we would like. Things will be 'bad' for at least the next three years, IMHO.

K&R

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. Seems to me the only real solution is a grip o' manufacturing jobs.

Those do not exist. It's not like we have thousands of manufacturing plants sitting idle, ready to throw their doors open to welcome millions of new workers to living wage unionized jobs. We're decades away from that.

[closeupready]

30. Aha! Found the link to the Warren Buffett inteview - enjoy.

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11845

[bhikkhu]

29. There are huge differences in approach - take a look at environmental records -

Reagan and Bush were two of the worst presidents ever on the environment - rolling back clean air and water standards, eliminating all the enforcement they could get away with, practically giving away leases on public lands and wilderness areas for mining, drilling, development of all sorts. Basically, they'd turn the best parts of the country - which belong to us all - into unlivable waste, if there was a buck in it for the wealthy; that's been the republican plan to stimulate the economy for the past 40 years.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. Roads are so 1950.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. And 195 BC.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[ProSense]

37. It matters. Here's why:

Vermont delegation announces $1 million grant to Institute for Sustainable Communities

WH: Partnership for Sustainable Communities Marks Two Trailblazing Years

These efforts are real.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

38. Who's efforting?

[sad sally]

43. If we only knew who really set the auto-pilot, who was really in control.

People think that the President is a benevolent despot determining our fortunes and way of life when in reality, the President is just sitting in the co-pilot seat of a plane that’s already on auto-pilot.

One day a man has a job and life is full of possibilities. The next day the job and car are gone and the man cannot look his wife in the eye. There is no paycheck, no way to earn money for food and clothing.

Life is taken up with trying to survive. It takes all the time there is, this trying to survive...

[Zax2me]

44. Yep.

Crash ahead, were all on the train.

[leeroysphitz]

45. Allow me to quote John Steinbeck.

"And the great owners, who must lose their land in an upheaval, the great owners with access to history, with eyes to read history and to know the great fact: when property accumulates in too few hands it is taken away. And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed."

[RegieRocker]

53. Stove analogy. Would you prefer to simmer or fry?

[TwilightGardener]

55. I don't foresee any times ahead that include both full employment and rising wages.

I just don't. There is nothing Obama can do, there is nothing the next President can do. We are in a new era.