How many DU'ers have long time friends/family who are RW'ers?

[mnhtnbb]

I have one fb friend--a person I worked with (actually hired) many years ago. She and her hubby retired
to Idaho (that oughta' tell you) several years ago. I'm retired. We've stayed in touch for the 25 years
since I left the organization where we both worked.

Several years ago she was the first person to send me a 'friend' request on fb. I accepted, but
really didn't get into it until about 18 months ago. Since then, we've had some battles. I remember
the first time I posted something political and she reared right up! Wow. Surprised me. So of course
it turns out she watches Fox, likes Sarah Palin, OMG--the stuff she puts up sometimes--and I by and large
try to ignore it. Yesterday, she posted this food fight between Bourdain and what he said about Paula Deen. Well, she loved Paula's trash talk comment about "how could he be so mean? Did somebody pee in his cereal?" The day before, she made--and posted--zucchini bread using Paula's recipe. Loaded with oil and sugar. OK. In the last year I've lost 40 lbs. This friend has remarked--and asked--how I did it. I've given her the info. The friend is significantly overweight. So I posted in response that Bourdain was not smart to insult PD (calling her food 'sucky') because he was on the right side of the issues about the impact of high sugar/high fat content food. Well, my friend kept maintaining that Paula won the argument
and I maintained that winning the contest of the best insult was not the issue!

OK. I'm going to take this beyond fb and food fights. I'm very concerned that we are more and more
unable to have a conversation with people who have a different opinion--and this particularly applies to
people on the right. This a.m. my friend posts on her wall:

Sometimes my posts are just innocuous posts.. I am not looking for a debate on everything I post... so from now on... here is the deal... if you insist on a debate EVERY TIME I post something, including this post.... I am going to SEND YOU TO TIME OUT ON YOUR WALL.. you can debate all you want on your wall.. LOL!!!

So the way I read this is, don't make a comment unless you agree with me. I'm not interested in changing my opinion, not interested in looking at anything from a different point of view, not interested in anything unless it's about me and the way I see the world.

That is sad. Very sad. How are we ever going to get out of the mess we're in if this is what we're up against with the followers of Fox News? This is not the first time I've encountered this attitude with someone I know well, either. My sister in law is a right winger, and boy did we ever have it out during
the primary season leading up to 2008. When I tried to give her facts, she shut me out with the comment, "I'm not interested in a history lesson, I just agree with xxxxx opinion." In other words, don't confuse me with the facts!

I really don't see a way out of our problems if people aren't willing to listen to another view of things.
It's very, very, discouraging.

What say you, DU'er's? If you've been able to successfully maintain conversations with right wingers
when you express disagreement, what are your secrets?

[OHdem10]

1. Keep talking and making rational arguments. So not expect all

of them to openly tell you or admit you are correct.

Take solace in the fact that one day you will walk
in and hear them repeating your argument on a point.
Take solace in the fact, they may vote your way once
in a while but may never openly admit it.

The most important thing is to know your material
and make good arguments. The more you talk the better
you become at making a strong argument.

You have to be just as proud and believe your opinion
is just as good as theirs so keep talking.

[mnhtnbb]

3. In this case, the friend's post was directly aimed at me. I was told

to shut up or be sent to 'time out'. This is from a woman whom I gave a chance to be
a department head in a major teaching hospital. I took a chance on her--and her career was
advanced because I did so--and now she can't handle a discussion of issues--and she insults
people with treating them like children (time-out)if they dare to disagree!

I'm seriously thinking of just unfriending her--which I hate to do because of our history--but
she's made it very clear she doesn't want to have a discussion with anyone who has a different opinion.

[demosincebirth]

16. I would have cut them off a long time ago. Ungrateful shits.

[Darth_Kitten]

70. Seems very ungrateful and patronizing.

:(

[Darth_Kitten]

69. Respond in kind....

I know most people would just say to forget about it, but get a dig in or two. Be subtle.

"I gave you a chance to have a very prestigious position at a hospital. Did you give "time outs" to your colleagues there? LOL Maybe you need to take a chill pill or something. It helps with getting along with people, etc"

Something like that. :evilgrin:

[GoCubsGo]

101. That's grounds for ending a relationship in my book.

Fuck the history. True friends don't treat their friends like that. If you do unfriend her, please tear her a new one before you go--just like you did in that first paragraph. Let the arrogant creature know why you no longer want anything to do with her.

[Populist_Prole]

2. I do

But I was friends with them before they went really hard right and/or I was more center/right a few years ago, so they basically think I'm sort of one of "them" even though I point out where I disagree with them. They think that it's a matter of 2+2 vs. 3+1 to get to an agreed 4. Because I don't want things getting nasty in otherwise good relations, we avoid politics mostly....and so they don't really know the degree in which DON'T want to get to "4" that is, I'm more to the left of them than they realize.

Of my family, a few are somewhat right, due to I honestly believe and unconscious bias against having a black president, but my father is truly a vicious as hard to the right bellicose, hot-headed, pushy as all get out teabagger as they come. Can't win with him. I receive scads of RW email forwards daily ( most of which get filtered to the delete file due to certain words I assign....can you guess what they are? :) ) and I too try to avoid political discussion, but he just won't quit. If I do agree even in part with any of his talking points, he'll spend the rest of the time preaching to the choir trying to push me to the right. If I disagree he gets nasty and insulting. I'm naturally more laid back and reserved and civil, and he's an aggressive salesman / motivational speaker type who mistakes my civility for apathy or timidity. He is most unpleasant to be around. Even others he knows are GOP-ers admit he lays it on way too think. It's so sad.

[mnhtnbb]

5. It is sad.

[Major Hogwash]

4. I gave up, bud. Over 6 years ago, after they trashed John Kerry over his medals.

When the people attending the RNC wore "Purple Heart bandaids" and that convention was televised.
Not only did that degrade the service to our country that the men and women did in the military, it was during 2 wars, when 100s of our men and women were being wounded and/or killed.

I only had one friend who was leaning to the right back then, but he is no longer welcome in my house as a result.
We don't talk anymore at all.
He's my age, but he's an asshole who thinks liberals ruined this country.
He'll burn in hell before we ever talk again.

[mnhtnbb]

9. There was a picture of a woman--holding a book critical of Kerry at the Repub

convention in 2004--and we lived across the street from her from 1988-1994.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12526.html

I agree with you. I think the Purple Heart band aids was the start of the mean, disrespectful
attitude of disagreeing with someone.

[Lint Head]

6. It is sad. I'm not very close to my sister because her

husband is a flaming right winger with money and has ruled their politics based on Faux Boobs and Rush Limpballs for years. He was born into money.

[Mojorabbit]

52. I have a sister married to a Rushbot and my brother

has turned into one too. Neither of them were anything like this years ago. I don't know what happened to them. We agree to not touch politics because it almost caused a huge family rift during the last primary and election. It is really sad.

[mnhtnbb]

65. So sorry, Mojorabbit.

[treestar]

7. Yes, many

There is no point in debating them, but just say something that might sink in later. Also point out that merely because someone has said something does not make it true. Most of them just believe what is said on TV or the internet - that's why the emails go round.

[patrice]

8. I do - several of them and it's been ALL of our lives together.

1. DO NOT insult them, no matter how stupid you think they are. And if they insult you, DON'T GO FOR IT!
2. NEVER quit.
3. Examples, examples, examples, not just concepts & values.
4. If things explode between you, let them know somehow, directly or indirectly, that the explosion does not change your basic relationship.
5. Realize that their public face can be different from their private one.
6. Despite all of the above, accept the fact that some people are just CONTRARY by nature, take the very next best opportunity you can find to be nice to them anyway and just accept it if they don't immediately and directly reciprocate.

There have been some REAL hell-raising matches in my family. I'm not sure about the value of these experiences; I just know that if they bring it, I bring it and if I bring it, they tend to hide behind bullshit or run. This stuff doesn't happen real often, but when it does, I always wait for the next soonest opportunity to hug the other person(s), but DO NOT touch them when it's going down.

[dana_b]

10. this is really good advice

there have been a couple of blow ups in my family over the years because of politics and I learned from them rather than participated in them. Half of my family and most of my friends are Dems and/or liberals and the rest are conservative Repubs - not teabaggers though. Makes for interesting times!!

[patrice]

18. I try to tell them that my challenge is my invitation to strength & I accept the same from them ...

(even though their arguments don't require much strength to counter).

I kind of hate the idea that people who say they care about one another CAN'T share their differences. That seems SO WRONG.

[dana_b]

22. I hear what you are saying

and with most of my family, I can share. It's mostly my Repub friends who become so angry and sometimes resort to insults. I tend to stop the conversation quickly.

[patrice]

24. That's probably the best thing to do for the friendship, 'cause, at least where I come from, friends

are different from family. Can't BE the same way with them.

[mnhtnbb]

30. See, that's the thing. What is it with insults?

[dana_b]

48. to make them feel better about themselves?

I don't know. It's usually an underhanded or passive/aggressive comment that I have come across.

[mnhtnbb]

64. I think you're right. It's a game to see who can out insult whom. That's why she liked

the Paula Deen comment.

[mnhtnbb]

11. For the time being

I have turned off her ability to post on my wall or for her posts to be in my feed. I'm on the fence
about unfriending her. I don't want to give up on her, but I'm very discouraged that the only relationship
we may be able to have is superficial.

[patrice]

14. That's a hard thing to experience - a valuable emotional relationship either changes or isn't what

you thought it was.

Very sad.

My personal inclination is to be generous with them, because they can't actually damage the trueness of the truth, and so that the decision to damage the relationship is theirs, not mine.

[mnhtnbb]

17. I think that she is no longer the person I thought she was.

I know I've changed in 25 years...so it's not unreasonable that she would. It's just sad that
she went the opposite direction.

[elocs]

12. My best friend who is 73 & like a father to me bleeds Republican.

We have known each other for almost 35 years. We get along by avoiding talking about anything political. I know I will never change his mind, he will never change mind so political dialogue is pointless and only leads to bad feelings.

We live in the same city, but he calls me nearly everyday. There is nothing he would not do for me, nor me for him. He has been there for me for all these years without fail.

Bill is in the very early stages of Alzheimer's and is being treated for it. He has been morbidly overweight for most of his adult life and has diabetes as well as a pacemaker. I know that he will not live too many more years if even that and it would be terrible if he lives to have Alzheimer's steal his mind.

There is more to life than politics and I will not sacrifice my love and relationship with Bill just to score some cheap political points. I know the time will come soon when I will no longer have the friend who I have loved as a father for most of my adult life.

[mnhtnbb]

15. This wasn't even politics this time. It was about healthy diet. I suspect

since she's addicted to Fox News that's where she heard the story--which was slanted in favor
of Paula Deen without looking at the deeper issue--because insults and avoiding the topic
is modus operandi for Fox News. I suspect she didn't like me taking issue with the crap
she heard on Fox! (Plus, she had just cooked a PD recipe the day before and I had not said one word
about it on her wall.)

[Lizzie Poppet]

13. My father, in fact.

My Dad is conservative, but more of an old-school Barry Goldwater type of conservative than the modern neo-con, Tea Party type. That is to say, he's extremely fiscally conservative, but in the social areas, he takes a "mind your own business" approach. We argue about what constitutes the best balance between socialism and capitalism in a modern society, but tend to see eye to eye on matters of human rights, individual freedom, and so forth. While I often see not-so-subtle undertones of racism in many modern RW'ers, there's not a racist bone in Dad's body. We're white, and his very best friend (and my honorary uncle) is Mexican-American.

[patrice]

21. I was blessed with a Labor-visionary father. He always expressed admiration for people who could

think. He talked Labor stories, from BIG construction projects, at the dinner table. I'm sure that Daddy is the source of my strength and my passion from his romantic Irish heart.

Plus Mom too, who was actually quite apolitical, but who was at heart a Contrarian who'd cut her own nose off to spite your face. Her GERMAN ancestors came west as a children with their families to settle Kansas, a strong woman in her own rite, I think I first learned about my limitations with some people from my mother.

[patrice]

23. I think you and your dad's idea of balance between socialism and capitalism is the best solution. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. My entire social circle consists of lifelong friends. Most I met in elementary school.

Some of my friends and their families have been in my heart since I was a single digit kid.

I refuse to let politics get between me and my loved ones. We just don't talk about it, even when we're together for a drunk-fest.

We camp, bbq, spend holidays, and just normally get together every time we can. Never comes up.

I like it that way.

[DocMac]

20. I exum them.

I have no patience for people that are not willing to understand logic when it is cut up and put on their plate.

[Mz Pip]

25. A couple

I have a cousin that I severed ties with because of the racist bullshit she kept forwarding me. I told her to stop sending me that crap and she said fine and stopped communicating with me completely. Oh well.

I have another life long Republican cousin who is more old school Republican, would probably have voted for Hillary. He is someone who is capable of some rational thought. He didn't like Bush and thought that Clinton would have been a great president if he hadn't had that scandal.

[Curmudgeoness]

26. My sisters and their husbands are RW.

It has made for some really bad times, and we have learned that we just do not discuss politics. And if there is a current event that comes up that has political bends to it, we all tiptoe around it. We actually can agree on some things, and we keep the conversation going in those directions and drop it when it is apparent that there will be a fight. But it took some huge fights with cold shoulders (and one sister who was visiting from across the country leaving early). It is not worth it.

On fb, I have one co-worker who is extreme, and all of her posts are teabagger or prays. I ignore everything she posts, but I do not unfriend her because I still have to work with her. (And don't think for a minute that I do not want to slam her for many of the stupid things she posts.) We do know that we abhor the other person's opinions on politics, and we know that neither of us will change our opinions based on any arguments--------I figure that I am as stubborn as she is about this, so can I really be a hypocrite to assume that she should change all her opinions.

[Pholus]

27. You can hide things she posts on FB so that only direct writes on your wall show up.

That's how I deal with the RW relatives.

[mnhtnbb]

29. I have eliminated her posts from showing up on my feed and

disabled her ability to post on my wall.

If she wants to see what I'm doing and what I have to say, fine. If I'm in the mood, I can go to
her wall and see what she's doing. It may be she'll take the step to unfriend me once she sees
the limits I've put up on her.

I didn't, however, announce to the world that I thought she belonged in time out for having a different opinion.

[Curmudgeoness]

35. OK, it is time for you to have a time out.

:rofl:

Actually, although she is snarky with that comment, it reflects much more on her than on you. Don't rise up to the bait, because if you are smart, you know there is a barb waiting for you.

[mnhtnbb]

42. LOL, curmudgeoness. It's true. I'll bet she spent time during her

cocktail hour last night discussing how to 'insult' me without making
it look like she was insulting me. Following her mentor, Paula Deen.

[Curmudgeoness]

37. I did hide all her game bullshit, but if I did the hiding all of it,

I would miss her daily horoscope.

:rofl:

So much god and prayer from her, and every day her horoscope posts. I think that is too funny to ignore. But you do have a point. I get really embarrassed with my Dem friends when her crap hits my wall. But it also keeps us all laughing.

[rustydog]

28. Don't we all?

[kestrel91316]

31. My BIL's mom is sort of a church lady and somewhat conservative

socially, and can't stand Obama but it's a built-in reflex.

Everybody else in the family just rolls their eyes at her weirdness.

[Tallulah]

32. I have both family and friends

that are RW. We never discuss politics. If it does come up, we have a code for stopping something before it starts.

It's "whatcha gonna do ?" There are too many other subjects to discuss and frankly, I hate arguing.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[TheCowsCameHome]

34. Don't ask

I don't want to think about it.

[mnhtnbb]

43. Sorry, Cows, it must be bad!

[TheCowsCameHome]

66. Thanks. It's a bummer.

It has strained family relationships more than one could imagine.

[MrMickeysMom]

36. This is the reason I hardly ever do anything on fb... similar reasons

I, too have people who "found me and friended me" on fb, and one in particular from the beginning made it known that we were on the opposite sides of the political spectrum, which I can respect, cause basically, this woman found me. So, if she has nothing to say non-political (I recognized that she needed sympathy for loosing a dog, but I've not had anything to say)... I don't say a damn thing.

In fact, I think the only advantage of having fb is to be able to take a look at some quick video that bridges the miles I have between some family members.

Don't bother with this tiny minded Foxed News person that you wouldn't have given to shits about anyway... there's more to do in life.... and not on facebook!

[mnhtnbb]

46. But see, that's the thing. At one time I thought we were quite

sympathetic with each other. We were divorced at the same time; we met and married new husbands
about the same time. Yes, I hired her and she was my employee, BUT my management style was not
to pull rank on people. I listened to people. I let people have their say. I THOUGHT I had taught her that. It's discouraging to see that either I was fooled or she has changed--a lot.

[MrMickeysMom]

55. You weren't fooled, and she probably hasn't changed a lot..

Perhaps "work friends" is not on par with other relationships, which, IMO, is different than someone you might be friends with outside of work.

Other than going through changes in this work environment that might have been familiar, you really did have another kind of relationship, which revealed itself on fb.

C'est la vie, say the old folks. :hi:

[mnhtnbb]

60. You're right. She has changed a lot. Hubby and I were just

discussing it over a glass of wine.

It's just so sad to realize that friendships are no longer possible unless
they're continued on a superficial level.

[handmade34]

38. oh boy...

I feel more and more like we can't talk to each other reasonably and rationally. I believe that politics is so very crucial to all of our lives right now; concerning jobs, environment, education, quality of life... these are all the things that make up our life, community, society...

We must figure out a way to do it but "don't confuse me with the facts" is so prevalent these days. Between us, my partner and I have 7 children... only one grandchild and the parents are active Republicans... they are intelligent people otherwise; I just don't get it. My only sense of hope is to subtly get through to my granddaughter someday... I believe we here are just so impatient for others to get it... accept facts, science and the real world that we all have to live in and get along in.

I do know that internet discussion (including facebook) most likely will not change minds and hearts. The human element is needed to truly communicate

[mnhtnbb]

47. I think you're right about the human element--the face to face discussion--

but even that doesn't work these days. I guess I'm just disappointed that this person whom I thought
I knew really isn't the person I thought she was at all.

[derby378]

39. I have a few...

The secret is that they're all really smart, or they're family members, or both.

[Lorien]

40. I'd start with this approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-129JLTjkQ&feature=related

I have a few Right Winger friends. All were once card carrying Republicans, but I don't think that any of them are now. When I discuss politics with them I don't talk about the Right or the Left, I just talk about the issues and possible ways of improving our situation. You can find more common ground with them if you avoid any labels. Most people don't know that they ARE actually Socialists at heart.

[patrice]

44. Excellent, EXCELLENT advice. Talk issues. AVOID catch-phrases & cliches of any kind.

That doesn't mean you can't use the concepts in your own words or turn those catch-phrases & cliches into concrete examples that illustrate the same principles, WITHOUT the political language.

Thanks VERY much for bringing that up. Very useful reminder!!

:applause:

[mnhtnbb]

49. That's really interesting clip. The discussion started

about Bourdain playing the game 'who's right'? by insulting Paula Deen who took it
to the next level by insulting Bourdain back again.

My first post--cuz this friend thought PD's comment was such a great comeback--was
yes, it was funny, but the issue of how healthy PD's recipes are got lost in the mudslinging.
I tried to get the issue out front and have a discussion--but all my friend wanted to do
was say how great Paula Deen's comment was, and my friend in fact called Bourdain a 'pompous ass'.

I continued for a couple of posts trying to retrieve the discussion to be issue focused, but
all my friend wanted to do was assert who 'won'.

The clip is right: you can't have a discussion when it's all about who wins and who loses.

[Raine]

73. From what I've heard Paula Deen is a liberal ... I wonder if your friend

knows that, maybe if she knew she wouldn't be so quick to want to declare PD as the winner. :evilgrin:

I had a "friend" who was a real staunch repug (she thought good=repug, bad=Democrat). This woman worked with a celebrity on animal welfare causes and bragged bragged about their friendship. I happened to have some contact with this celebrity too (thru the same animal organization) though I never claimed her as a friend. The celebrity knew her and I shared the same political slant and gave me a bunch of her excess Democratic politcal buttons. Next time I saw my "friend" I showed her my buttons and told her who have given them to me :wow: she looked like she shit a brick, she had no idea the celebrity was such a hardcore Democrat (which was idiotic since most celebs are liberals). :think: I guess it was cruel but I was so sick of her insensitive under-handed jabs Democrats. :evilgrin:

[mnhtnbb]

77. I don't think she's a liberal. She was being interviewed on Fox

when she made her potty mouth comment in retaliation to Bourdain, and now
the conservative bloggers are rushing to her aid.

She promotes Smithfield like crazy--which has all kinds of union busting issues, lousy on workers' rights, animal abuse charges--you name it.

Take a look: http://conservativedailynews.com/2011/08/paula-deen-the-most-dangerous-person-in-america/

When I waded in on my friend's fb page, I hadn't realized PD's comments were made on Fox. The fact that I would dare to disagree with anything the friend had seen on her favorite network made it a no win situation.
I guess if she had posted "I just saw PD on Fox say..." I would have known to let it go.

[Raine]

84. DARN, I thought I someone on DU said she was a liberal

sure doesn't sound like it though. :-( That reall stinks, I'm so disappointed.

[patrice]

41. Have you found an opportunity to offer authentic positive comments about anything you can?

I find a well timed and AUTHENTIC positive and specific connection to something they've said, starts turning them around, but don't expect reciprocity.

Being on the "high road" is a REAL advantage, whether they recognize it or not.

[mnhtnbb]

50. 100%of my posts on this friends wall are upbeat, positive, reinforcing

and I have learned to ignore her political comments.
Unfortunately, I didn't realize that having a discussion about
healthy diet (which she's ASKED me about previously)when she
was having a Fox induced chuckle about healthy diet--and now
that I think about it might be related to Michelle Obama!!!--
and how the person who wanted to criticize her unhealthy cooking
got put in his place! (So maybe that puts Michelle in her place?)

[Xithras]

45. One of my best friends is a Bachmann-loving teabagger.

We agreed many years ago, before the Tea Party thing had even been invented, that we just wouldn't discuss politics. Ever. He has his views, I have mine, and we're not going to change each others minds. He was my best man at my wedding, one of his kids is named after me, and we're great friends in every way...but we don't talk politics. Ever.

You just have to decide whether the friendship is important enough to you to make that sacrifice. And, of course, your friends have to feel the same way. My friend and I simply decided that our friendship was old enough, and important enough, that we weren't going to let a political disagreement get in the way.

That said, I have plenty of other people who WEREN'T that important to me also jump on the teabagger bandwagon. I've simply ended my friendships with most of them.

[mnhtnbb]

51. See, I know about her politics. The thing with the Bourdain/Paula Deen

mudslinging took me by surprise. But now that I think about it--it may have
been flavored by Fox with some anti-Michelle Obama comments, too, since she
has made healthy eating one of her interests.

I was blindsided.

[Jakes Progress]

53. Some slack-jawed cousins.

But I haven't talked or seen them for twenty years. See no reason to.

[a la izquierda]

54. I do!

And both in my blood family and the family I married in to. It's insanity. My mother's family is oddly conservative-meaning there's no real reason for it. They're all comfortably middle class, but think they're nouveau riche (they're not). My sister and my mom's partner are my only political allies here.
My dad's side is pretty liberal, even my extremely wealthy uncle. Win on that side!

My husband's family has military roots back to the Revolution. They're also middle class. My husband, thankfully, is pretty much on the left.

I can have political conversations with *some* of my family members. My mom and I don't talk politics, because she secretly knows I'm right. A few members of my hubby's family will debate me on issues. One of my brothers-in-law is a moderate. He thinks the likes of Bachmann and Palin are crazy, he's a popular science and history guy, and he can see both sides of an issue. Others are teabaggers and not worth my breath or sanity.

[mnhtnbb]

58. Condolences on the family. I was the black sheep, but my

parents are long gone. My mother had a signed photo of Ronnie in her kitchen; I couldn't stand
being home after she put that up in the 80's.

[a la izquierda]

72. Ick!

My grandma, may she rest in peace, had photos of JFK and RFK. We're Irish Catholics on my dad's side.

[mnhtnbb]

56. Just had a discussion about all this with hubby who thinks

we are going to end up with violence in this country.

He says it's the end of the age of enlightenment. Reason no longer prevails.

Damn. I think I need another cocktail.

[trueblue2007]

57. my sister and her family are all RW

i don't want to get into political discussions with any of them during family get-togethers. tears me apart. they all HATE president obama and LOVE every tea party and GOPigger there is.

[mnhtnbb]

59. My husband's family are all RW.

He continues to see them when he can because his sister pretty much kept him from going insane
when he was growing up with an alcoholic mother.

But it's a real challenge for him not to discuss what's going on in the world and he knows
that these people--who would do anything for him--don't agree with him on politics.

[Hydra]

61. I'm going to give you 2 perspectives

1st is, there are very few people who like facts. The Left and people on DU are no exception. Both in my normal life and here on this board, people really hate it when I talk in "fact" unless it agrees with what they are thinking at the time.

Your friend probably didn't want those boring old facts any more than she wanted the healthy food.

2nd is that RWers usually have a lot of passion behind what they think(and very few facts to back them up). This leads to some VERY odd thinking. My grandparents were FDR Dems until the 60s. The Red Scare really got them, though, and carried through to hating the changes that were coming, like women's lib and sexual lib. They dug in to their church and hid, closing their minds to the truth and opening it to people like Ronald Reagan.

The problem with this is that they aren't looking for facts, they're looking to be reassured that someone is in charge who won't let anything new happen.

Where does this leave one? For me, I wait. Eventually DU comes around. The RWers do too, or they die.

Being "right" is important to people who aren't right. For the person who IS right, they're just seeing a little more clearly.

Your work friend isn't seeing clearly, and until she wants to, she won't be able to change. It's up to you if you want to be around her while she flails around, but I'd either way I'd stay clear of it and drop the subject whenever she tries to pounce.

Also, remember this principle: The truth needs no advocate. It simply is.

[mnhtnbb]

63. Thanks for your comments. I like the last sentence: The truth needs no advocate. It simply is.

[FreeJoe]

62. I live in the suburbs of Houston and work in the oil industry

The vast majority of people I know are RW. On FB, I just ignore all the political posts. In real life, I mostly avoid political discussions. When I engage in them, I try to be respectful of their opinions and try to calmly explain my views. Some are beyond listening, but others aren't.

[ShockediSay]

67. I don't have time to waste on Fascists.

After asking my formerly close friend not to keep hitting me w/ his Right Wing fascist emails, I got hit by another one. I simply replied that I don't have the time for his fascist remarks. That was years ago and we haven't been in communication since.

I have a close relative that cranks one of his lying Right Wing fascist anti Obama etc emails every once in a while. I asked him not to but he persists so I just ignore them.

Those w/their Right Wing ideology can repeat what they hear from their propaganda machine. Brains, analytical minds and courage of conviction are hallmarks of those of us to the left of the ideologheads.

Oh, and when they call us fascists, they really don't know what they're talking about - - history wise and otherwise.

Right Wing
Super Wealthy Funded
Corporation
Controlled
Media
Propaganda Pumping, Organized & Repitious
w/ Scapegoating
& Union Busting
=Fascist Regime

[Raine]

68. All my relatives are repugs but we get along fine

I'm very close to them. We NEVER EVER talk politics, we have an unwritten unspoken arrangement ... we've agreed to disagree and that's that.

[white_wolf]

71. My best friend is a conservative.

We talk about politics and I don't think we've ever gotten mad at each other. Of course we are really close,so if one of us did get mad we'd be over in a day.

[H2O Man]

74. Sure do.

It's never posed any problems. We see some things differently, and even more very differently.

I'm capable of discussing and debating my opinions. That might cause some discomfort for them.

[AsahinaKimi]

75. Never..

Even in Japan, my uncle and his family are Minshuto.

Democratic Party of Japan (民主党 Minshutō) is a political party in Japan founded in 1998 by the merger of several opposition parties. Its socially liberal platform is generally considered center-left in the Japanese political spectrum. After the 2009 election the DPJ became the ruling party in the House of Representatives, defeating the long-dominant Liberal Democratic Party and gaining the largest number of seats in both the House of Representatives and the House of Councillors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_of_Japan

[mnhtnbb]

76. Thanks for everyone's comments

I unfriended the person tonight.

If I can't have a conversation with a health care 'friend' about a couple
of celebrity foodies related to healthy cooking without the 'friend'
resorting to insults, then I really think the person is not my friend.
I felt disrespected. Life is too short. So, that's that.

[Populist_Prole]

81. Good for you. Like ripping off a bandage. No need to prolong anxiety

It's just unfortunate that it was in the realm of an internet social site and had to be officially proclaimed, rather than let it whither on the vine and just die like in the past. I've thought a lot about the whole politics and friend thing and I have to ask myself: If we ( me and whatever other person ) both knew we were afar apart politically back when we first met, would we have become friends? Doubtful. With family, we don't have a choice, but why would I want to hold in high regard anybody who, if they had their way politically, would turn me into a benighted impoverished wretch?

I never had to officially un-friend anybody, as I don't do facebook or the like. We just aren't in contact anymore, and frankly, I don't give a damn. Yes I rue for the loss, but maintaining a fake friendship is just too crass for my taste.

I hope you will take some solace in doing what will ultimately result in less angst over time.

[AsahinaKimi]

83. I don't understand your statement.. was this directed at me?

You asked the question how many people here have had long time friends or family who were right wingers or Republicans. My answer was "never". My family came from Japan, and even there, they were democrats. I thought I stated that clearly.

IF your comments were not directed at me, why post them there? WA~KARI~MAS~EN That means in
Japanese...I don't understand.

[mnhtnbb]

89. Sorry, it was late, meant to make it the last post not in response to you.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Populist_Prole]

82. Spot me, because I'm one of them

Except that I hate the GOP and conservatives in general all the more ramping up to elections. I left the GOP because I came top develop an intense dislike for the bastards, and conservatives in general. Be assured I'm not a trojan horse.

[bonecrusher3k]

79. oh my

My mother is a hard core Bush junior supporter. When I try to point out obvious issues she gets irate with me and tells me to stop bashing him...

[donheld]

80. My Family(Mother, Brother, Niece are very right wing

It's tough to keep a level head so we try not to talk politics. My 84 year old Mother really sucks up to the Rush type fools and will not entertain ideas outside the very conservative media, CNS/WND etc. I fear the next year things are going to be very tense if we're not extra careful.

[mnhtnbb]

90. So sorry. I'm so glad I no longer have to worry about walking on

eggs with family.

It's kind of interesting how anxious RW'ers are to start a fight. It's almost
like they delight in it. The last time I visited my brother--2007--I hadn't put
my suitcase down when he started in on a Hillary bashing joke. So I responded
with a Bushie boy joke and that shut him up--fast. But I never would have
thought to start it myself.

[noiretextatique]

85. i used to work with a guy who is probably a foaming-at-the-mouth teabagger now

unlike most, he was fairly intelligent and at least able to have a conversation. thankfully...he is the only one i know. i do know some on-the-fence, status-quo centrist types, and in some ways, they are even more unreachable than the wingnut. i had one discussion with a bagger i knew from high school on facebook, and he had pretty much the same reaction as your 'friend.' i decided to work on radicalizing the centrists vs. arguing with the brickheads.

[mnhtnbb]

91. It really is a waste of breath, isn't it?

[noiretextatique]

104. yes...this a quote from a tea party supporter who was interviewed by a NYT reporter

“I just feel he’s getting away from what America is,” said Kathy Mayhugh, 67, a retired medical transcriber in Jacksonville. “He’s a socialist. And to tell you the truth, I think he’s a Muslim and trying to head us in that direction, I don’t care what he says. He’s been in office over a year and can’t find a church to go to. That doesn’t say much for him.”


:crazy:

[Bladian]

86. Grandparents on my dad's side.

Took my girlfriend to dinner with them a few months back and out of the blue the old man says "Those damn Mooslims . You're always supposed to say, 'Well, they're not all bad people!' What a bunch of crap." I was shocked. I knew their views were like that, but it was so overt. And in front of my girlfriend, no less.

[mnhtnbb]

92. Ignorant and proud of it. It's just amazing, isn't it?

[McCamy Taylor]

87. When dealing with the anti-intellectual "I have to feel it" types, you have got to make them feel it

It's pretty easy, in my experience, but I write a lot and I know how to appeal to my audience.

There is one situation in which political discourse is a waste of time. If you believe that we are all born innocent and society corrupts and the other person believes we are all born bad and society tames us (or vice versa) save your breath. Neither of you will budge.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

88. Lives far, far, FAR away.

And I'll leave it at that.

[JHB]

93. Tell them that they're acting like the very "elitist Manhattanites" they claim to hate...

...i.e., an opinion spoken like a self-evident truth, and that anyone who would disagree must be stupid or nuts.

[Douglas Carpenter]

94. my dear 89-year-old Aunt Betty is an absolutely CRAZY right-wing fundamentalist

and she actually always was - even long before the rise of the modern fundamentalist right-wing - Even many years ago there were a handful of right-wing extremist on the radio like a earlier generation right-wing nut named Carl McIntire - a radio preacher who propagated the fundamentalist right - long before there was a fundamentalist right.

The odd thing is that she does not otherwise - apart from religion and politics which she had blended together a long time ago - seem like the least bit of an unreasonable person nor an intolerant person. In fact her general attitude seems quite tolerant and very compassionate.

Whatever got a hold of her mind at a much earlier age seems to have convinced her God, America (not the one that actually exist - but a make believe America that does not and never has existed) and the right-wing of the Republican Party are all the same. I recall her in 2004 admitting that "we all know that George W. Bush is not an educated man (She was clever enough to know that) but, we have to support him because John Kerry has been proven to be a person of bad character. And history has shown that whenever America drifts away from the Biblical-Christian principles that our country was founded on and that made us the greatest nation on earth - The country ends up in a lot of trouble." Of course all of this is make believe and can certainly be refuted. But, where on earth does one even start? Besides no amount of information, logic or empirical data will ever influence her thinking one little bit.

[mnhtnbb]

97. Besides no amount of information, logic or empirical data will ever influence her thinking one

little bit.

Your last sentence is it in a nutshell.

There was a study not long ago that documented trying to engage right wing people--who already had an opinion--with facts in an attempt to get them to change their opinion would just make them dig in their heels and maintain the opinion more rigidly. In other words, you can't reason with them!

If that's the case, then maintaining a relationship with someone like that becomes digital--you do
and give up all hope of having any kind of thoughtful dialogue--or you sever the relationship.

This is not a relative so I've just decided not to waste any more of my time with her. I've made the same decision in the past about my brother's wife--I severed that relationship during the 2008 political season, only to relent a year ago--and then severed it again last winter. This time there's no going back.

[mnhtnbb]

98. Here's an article about the study I mentioned

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/07/11/how_facts_backfire/

[eilen]

95. My MIL and her husband

However, to no end of my twisted entertainment, they are now experiencing their teabagger utopia in Florida with Rick Scott. Interestingly there is no insight when she complains to me about the latest outrage (her son is dependent on SSDI, Medicaid and state programs for his disability). Particularly when one of their TP elected Reps asked her why she just doesn't take care of her own; it took all my willpower to sound properly outraged and sympathetic. I don't discuss politics with her, I just give support but I admit, I indulge in schadenfreude privately. It isn't very nice but honestly, they are reaping what they have sown. I just feel sorry for all the other Floridans who have to suffer (literally suffer) for the voting decisions of idiots like them. Their right wing turn started when Clinton raised their taxes, I remember the day.

When we visited last winter her husband insisted on pushing politics (particularly attacking unions) and we would just walk out of the room.

Ultimately they are family and love for our family comes first. We can live without politics before we can live without them in our lives.

On another note, I have a friend who doesn't call or visit much anymore d/t our differences in opinion. I still love her and that is why I don't hit below the belt in the political discussions we have. I have just advised her that listening to political radio shows like her husband does (all day) is the functional equivalent of brainwashing.

I get occasional offensive political chain mails from some people in my sewing guild. I sometimes send a strongly worded rebuttal to the entire list (shit in my email inbox, you and all your email friends will get it back). One in particular was some inane piece of dreck quoting, of all people, Ben Stein.

When it comes to your friend on Facebook, I would just ignore the stupid. If there is anything left after that, comment positively about the things you have in common. If there is nothing, then unfriend. Life is too short to waste on stupid spiteful people.

[XanaDUer]

96. I just want to say one thing on behalf of Paula Deen...

First off, I don't like her food. BUT- remember when she PO'd fundies b/c she was living with a man w/o benefit of clergy?!

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoCubsGo]

100. My idiot brother

Although, I think he's really not one at heart. Just pussy-whipped. The creature he just married is an ignorant, not-very-intelligent wing nut. He wasn't really like that before he started associating with her and her ilk. My parents didn't raise us like that. I just point out where he was wrong. If it's on Facebook, he usually just deletes the whole thread. Can't let his nutter friends see him be proven wrong, I guess.

My mom's brother is one, as well. Same deal. Not raised a wing nut, but became one when he started hanging around the local VFW hall. I pretty much ended my communications with him back when Bill Clinton was President. Got sick of the Clinton-bashing.

[TNLib]

102. I have this problem with so many people in my life I don't know where to begin.

I had a middle school friend that I was debating with on facebook. I quickly came to the conclusion that she was too dumb to even stay fb friends with so I
unfriended her. We were never that good of friends in middle school and she was pretty much a stranger. So I had no problem unfriending her.

My mother doesn't vote but is somewhat of a libertarian she lives with me and often watches fox news. When she engages me in discussions about politics I try to change the subject or give her my opinion without starting a heavy debate. I really don't want to be arguing with my mother and I figure she doesn't vote so what does it matter.

I have learned the hard way when it comes to co-workers don't engage in a political debate. Facts act like teflon on these peoples and you'll just be butting your head against a brick wall. Work is stressful enough why add more stress.

Same goes with some close friends I have. Some friends I've actually cut loose because they were aggravating me to death with their RW political views that they were trying to shove down my throat. Other friends I've decided I want to keep, so I change the subject when politics or religion come up.

I am basically surround by people with hard core RW views and I use to debate and try to point them to facts to sway their view points. But facts do not matter to these people. They don't' care about reality they are only concerned with their narrow view point and they will warp reality to fit that view point.
So I've learned if I want to maintain my relationships with these people, don't talk about politics or religion.

[mnhtnbb]

103. Because of a comment on another thread I looked up when Fox News started: 1996

No wonder it feels so much to me like this person had changed! I last had a daily relationship
with her in 1985--and she's had 15 years of propaganda fed to her since.

[Aristus]

105. My wife calls herself a conservative Republican.

Probably because she comes from a wealthy, "born-again" family, and it must be in the by-laws or something that you call yourself a conservative Republican. She actually disdains politics, and if I had to peg her politically, it would be as a right-leaning moderate Democrat.

She despised Bush and thinks Sarah Palin is a very bad joke, and a poor role model for women.

She opposed the Iraq War, and thought it was a huge mistake.

She opposes the death penalty as 'un-Christian', except in the most extreme cases (mass murder, genocide, etc.)

Her views on gay rights have become steadily more progressive. Curt Hummel is her favorite 'Glee' character, and she has frequently stated that the bullying and harassment he has faced breaks her heart.

She is still steadfastly opposed to abortion, but I know a few Democrats who are as well...

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenStormCloud]

107. Several cousins are pretty strong RW.

We just don't talk politics. Being family is more important.