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In 1994 a centrist think tank warned Clinton to toe their corporate line.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:50 PM
Original message
In 1994 a centrist think tank warned Clinton to toe their corporate line.
I find it amazing how they got enough power, just a few men....to bully the president and get him to listen. I find myself wondering if the same think tank, just a different name, is doing the same thing to today's Democratic president. It's as though the people who vote are told to ignore it and vote anyway, and their wishes are ignored. That's power.

It would explain why Bill Clinton told Robert Reich in 1997 that he could not be criticizing the corporations.

Reich and his wife had gone to dinner with the Clintons. Reich mentions that they are "sacrificing public investment so that corporations have more money to invest" and that "at the least, we should expect them to invest with their employees and communities in mind."

There's an awkward pause. Have I overstepped the line?

'It seems to me,' says Clare, weighing her words carefully, 'that corporations are downsizing not only themselves but also a big part of the middle class.'

She's bailed me out. I want to kiss her on the spot. I throw caution to the winds and ask B, 'Would you be comfortable saying what Clare just said?'

'I have to keep myself from saying it everyday,' he says softly. 'I shouldn't be out in front on these issues. I can't be criticizing.'


Review of Locked in the Cabinet.


We should wonder why a Democratic president would fear being critical of corporations.

The DLC warned him in 1994 and in 1995 to follow their goals...or they would withdraw support.

Party centrists issue stern warning to White House

The Democratic Leadership Council's moderate ideas helped Bill Clinton win the presidency. Now, the organization's head honchos are angry over his slide from the organization's themes. The Democratic Leadership Council, which created the "New Democrat" themes that helped put Bill Clinton in the White House, has turned sharply critical of him, saying that the president is finished if he ignores their ideas. It was another sign of the political anger and unrest Clinton faces in his party if his wounded presidency does not recover.

The DLC's blunt warning was delivered in November in response to the Democrats' midterm election debacle, which shrank the party's congressional membership and shook whatever remaining confidence they had in Clinton's political viability. The DLC's criticism followed some bitter remarks by its chairman, Rep. Dave McCurdy of Oklahoma, who, after losing his Senate bid, complained that his defeat was due to "a visceral anti-Clintonism" among the voters.

..."I think for President Clinton there is a pretty blunt message in this poll," DLC President Al From told reporters this week. "It's `Get with the program or you'll have to pay the consequences.'"

Will Marshall, who heads the group's Progressive Policy Institute, said the poll showed that swing voters who helped elect Clinton were sending the president and the Democrats this message: "We are disappointed in what you've done, but we haven't given up on you. You have one last chance. You govern as a New Democrat, unequivocally as a New Democrat, and you can win us back, and you can win back the vital center of the electorate. But if you don't, you're in big trouble."


They gave him one last chance? It was their way or no way, they said.

In 1995 they put out more warnings to President Clinton.

From Time Magazine July 1995. Catch the swipe that is made at Jesse Jackson and "traditional" elements of the party.

Clinton's troops turn away.

The White House is having an anxiety attack at the prospect of a liberal challenge from Jesse Jackson, but a potentially more dangerous threat may come from the Democratic Leadership Council, the group of moderate Democrats formed in 1985. Clinton helped found the organization, chaired it before resigning to run in 1992 and sold himself to the nation on the basis of the ideas developed by the council's think tank, the Progressive Policy Institute (PPI). Clinton had defined the DLC's task as creating "a new middle ground of thinking on which someone can not only run for President but actually be elected."

Having accomplished that goal, Clinton has wandered. "Since his election," says DLC president Al From, "the President's campaign agenda hasn't been his first priority." A repeat of that performance is what many centrist boosters worry about most. Clinton's latest moves to the center, like his recent balanced-budget proposal, are viewed by the DLC as mere electoral tactics that may signify nothing at all about a second term's direction. "In '92 our ideas captured the country but not the party," says William Galston, who resigned recently as a White House aide to help develop what From calls a "third way." Since then, adds Galston, the tension within the Administration "has involved accommodating the liberal tendencies that still dominate the party and the centrist views the President ran on." That confusion is exactly what could doom Clinton, since many Americans still wonder what the President really believes in and what he will fight for.

The centrists don't want to go down with him. Explains Elaine Kamarck, a former PPI fellow currently working for Vice President Gore: "The DLC worries about dying off if the President's defeated. The battle for the party's soul will continue even if he wins. But if he loses, the liberals will claim that the dlc's centrist views were responsible and should be tossed aside entirely. The counterargument will be that just because the messenger proved imperfect, doesn't mean the message itself should be junked."


But these words from Al From in that article just about tell the whole philosophy of the think tank that hijacked the party's platform.

Al From himself embodies John Maynard Keynes' warning that the real difficulty in changing any enterprise lies not in developing new ideas but in escaping from old ones. "The problem for us and him," says From, "is that Clinton promised to be different. He's been that a bit, but the whole is less than the sum of the parts. The fundamental change he pledged hasn't come. We've been consistent in articulating the ideas he won on, but he hasn't been consistent in advancing them. We were at this before Clinton, and we'll be at it after he's gone, because a long-term majority will never be created around the interests represented by Jesse and the labor unions. Most people are politically homeless now. They're our target. We'll work to get Clinton to pursue us, but we're damn sure going to make it hard for him to catch us."


I think pretty much the same thing goes on today. The name of the think tank has changed, but I think they still bully the president. A strategist who plays a Democrat on TV has assured us that there is a new leader in town, and we liberals need to watch out.

The Democrats' New Power Base

And she does not mean the voters.

The truth is, the DLC’s position as the leading centrist Democratic think tank was long ago overtaken by a group called Third Way, which has been growing more influential by the day.

Before joining the White House, Bill Daley, President Obama’s new chief of staff, was a board member of Third Way.

In an interview before the news of the DLC’s shuttering, Ken Baer, communications director for the Office of Management and Budget and a longtime fan of Third Way, told me: “Their power is rising. They put out original policy ideas that are rooted in reality and relevant to the moment. They are really the only organization owning the reform space in the Democratic Party.”


Then as now, they seem unconcerned about actual voting members of the party. They assume we are on board anyway, no matter what.

That's what gives them the power to bully.


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Kurmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wonder why a Democratic president would fear? Ask the Kennedys.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. +1 gazillion. No believes the 'gun to the head' threat is real. Call it "conspiracy theory".
What would the Mafia do? That's what's corporations would do.
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musette_sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Bill Hicks has a salient bit on this...
outline: POTUS is elected; POTUS-elect is brought to an undisclosed location to view unseen-by-public films of 11/22/63 from all angles; lights go on; "Any questions?"
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Bingo. nt
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
40. more than a few of our beloved dem leaders
may have gotten the message, but ignored it. they aren't with us anymore, but we all know who they are :(
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Just add the word "Democratic" to that
and it's the dog's honest truth. The Repukes have always been TPTB's party and don't need convincing.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
28. Very convenient theory for Presidents, isn't it? Absolves them of everything. I call bullshit.
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 06:02 PM by No Elephants
Even if this hypothetical scenario has occurred and been kept secret since 1963--both highly unlikely--the POTUS has at his or her disposal the biggest armed force the world has ever seen or probably ever will see, not to mention the biggest cadre of bureacrats and staffers and the Secret Service.

Any group responsible for threatening the President would cease to exist well before the President did.
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Not if the permanent infrastructure of the CIA
and military is in on it. Those people are used to keeping secrets and making threats. It's their job. Presidents come and go.
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
58. ha, I'm not saying I think there is a conspriacy, but if there was one I don't agree with you
Since of course this would have to be part of the Bush Crime Family and they actually do control the CIA or have had control for the majority of the last 45 years or so.
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tooeyeten Donating Member (441 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
60. Of course
I suspect you're more accurate than the original supposition.
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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Indeed.
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 02:39 PM by hifiguy
The coup took place on 11/22/63. It just took them forty years or so to start rolling away the curtains concealing that fact. And the PTB/MIC is only doing it now because there is not one damned thing we can do about it any longer.

I am convinced that the reason that LBJ was able to implement the Great Society is that he promised the MIC/PTB the Vietnam war that they extracted as their price. And I am sure that every Democratic president since has, shortly after his election, been called in for a little talk about what he will and will not be allowed to change, with a none-too-subtle reminder of what happened to JFK as the threat backing it up.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. The fear is the money drying up.
From those who have the most of it to make or break.
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ej510 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. It is all about the money. We need to elect someone who isn't afraid of not getting re-elected.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. We'd better elect someone terminally ill then.
Imagine living as the President of the United States. Neither Louis XIV nor Croesus lived that well.

The best minds in the country at your disposal, along with the nation's vast military. Endless deference. Most powerful person on the planet.

The historic White House with its priceless antiques and renovations, and lovely grounds, all kept white glove immaculate by many servants.

Chefs cooking and baking. State dinners. Hail to the Chief playing and everyone standing as you make your entrance.

Air Force One, being re-fueled in the air while one of the best doctors in the country tries to figure out why your dog seems sick.

Decorators flying in from all over the country to decorate your residence, including nineteen huge trees, and the Vice President's residence for Christmas.


Shared sacrifice. Folks "like me" pay a little more. Riiiiigt.

Anyway. No one who aspires to be President in the first place is going to want to give all of that up.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-11 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
70. Yeah, Clinton was afraid that Al From was going to put a hit out on him
He was probably living in fear that Donna Shalala was going to be one to put him in cement shoes.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. The DLC/Third Way are bullies indeed.
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 01:59 PM by Dawson Leery
They are the friendly face of corporatism.
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haikugal Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. Isn't 'Third Way'
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 02:09 PM by haikugal
part of the Dominionists Seven Mountain Strategy? I believe they are part of the 'C' street....it has been obvious to those of us who are truly liberal in our views that what is written in the article has been true for some time. Have you heard the saying "Clinton is the best Republican president we've ever had"?
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I'll have to check into that tonight.
Oh, BTW I spell it Turd Way.

-Hoot
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haikugal Donating Member (476 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I know Hillary belongs to the C street group...
I'll be interested to see what you find.

Turd way is way too accurate!! :0)
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. BS She does not belong to it.
She attended a few events. Not the same.

I have attended church a few times - weddings, funerals, etc. I don't belong to any church. I am agnostic.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yes, she is/was part of it.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. So one article says she "visited" and one says she attended once.
The other I don't know - it knocked me off the internet twice and twice is enough.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Not true. Makes it clear she belonged.
What do you mean...one knocked you off the internet? Two are my journals here, one from Mother Jones, one from the The Atlantic.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Just that - it knocked me off.
How do you feel about Obama getting text messages giving him his daily scripture readings from his friends the Evangelicals and Fundamentalists?

I don't think that makes him a Crazy Christian but that's just me.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Which link knocked you off? Clarify. They are all good links.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
53. All the links are good. You just have nothing substantive to respond to them.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Thanks for the links. Very informative...
Did you happen to notice the use of the term "third way" in the Mother Jones article? It's in the context of Hillary's relationship with her first spiritual mentor, who remains a close friend to this day:

Clinton's faith is grounded in the Methodist beliefs she grew up with in Park Ridge, Illinois, a conservative Chicago suburb where she was active in her church's altar guild, Sunday school, and youth group. It was there, in 1961, that she met the Reverend Don Jones, a 30-year-old youth pastor; Jones, a friend of Clinton's to this day, told us he knows "more about Hillary Clinton's faith than anybody outside her family."

Because Jones introduced Clinton and her teenage peers to the civil rights movement and modern poetry and art, Clinton biographers often cast him as a proto-'60s liberal who sowed seeds of radicalism throughout Park Ridge. Jones, though, describes his theology as neoorthodox, guided by the belief that social change should come about slowly and without radical action. It emerged, he says, as a third way, a reaction against both separatist fundamentalism and the New Deal's labor-based liberalism.


Kinda makes you scratch your head and go "hmmmm...."

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
44. Here's another interesting article about her appearance with Rick Warren at Saddleback.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
36. I am an absolutist when it comes to separation of church and state.
However, what Third Way has become is so hideous for people and the environment that it hardly matters to me whether or not it has a religious component, or whether it is driven solely by garden variety insatiable greed.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
39. According to madfloridian's Mother Jones link, "third way" had no Dominionist connotations
when Hillary Clinton was in her teens. According to the "neoorthodox" theology her Methodist pastor follows, it's defined as "a third way, a reaction against both separatist fundamentalism and the New Deal's labor-based liberalism."

In other words, it's a kind of incrementalism when it comes to social action, opposed to radical change. At least that's what it meant in 1961 at the beginning of the civil rights movement. It isn't an approach I'm particularly sympathetic to, but there's nothing overtly evil or regressive about it either. However, it could have very well have acquired more sinister Dominionist connotations over time.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. "against both separatist fundamentalism and the New Deal's labor-based liberalism"
It is rather world wide, movement of corporate control.

Being against the New Deal is a huge strike against them.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
61. Your definition of "third way" resonates with "conservatism"...

"In other words, it's a kind of incrementalism when it comes to social action, opposed to radical change."

This was roughly how "conservatism" was defined decades ago. I don't know much about "dominionist" arguments, but I believe the motivation behind "third way" politics is a fear that government will lose legitimacy in most all of its affairs if it becomes "train wrecked" at will by the Far Right, and if the Far Right continues to de-legitimize all progressive issues by constructing their own definitions in the absence of opposition. Hence, "Third Way," or "No Label" politics, have willingly run away from virtually all the stands and strategies which characterized progressive and Democratic Party politics up through LBJ, and intentionally offer no philosophy, ideology or plan of action. They see the Corporate State as inevitable, and act accordingly.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
42. i believe you may be right
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 07:01 PM by shanti
yet another fact pointing out that there is basically no difference between the dems and cons. they are merging into one....once enough people get wind of them, they'll change their name again.


some links to check out:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabe-lyons/third-way-christian-nation-debate_b_773744.html

http://www­­.talk2act­i­on.org/s­to­ry/2009­/8/­13/551­1/49­602/F­ront_­Page­/_Hisp­ani­c_Karl_­Ro­ve_Helps­_­Shape_Thi­­rd_Way_Dem­­ocratic_P­a­rty_Plat­fo­rm

http://www­­.huffingt­o­npost.co­m/­bruce-w­ils­on/how­-the­-reli­gious­-rig­ht-i_b­_25­8604.ht­ml

http://www­­.deliciou­s­.com/Ins­an­iTEA/Th­ird­Way



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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Outstanding and insightful information
as always. I think we can say it looks like we have a Third Way presidency. Let's keep hoping more and more of DU really starts really paying attention to what that means.

K & R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes, it appears we do have that.
a Third Way presidency
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roxiejules Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. +1
Good work, mad!!

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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. Who else you gonna vote for?
Jus' askin'.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Every time I see that question....
... It makes it MORE likely that I will vote third party and leave the charade of the Democratic party behind.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I know how you feel.
Just yanking your Chain.
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Fuddnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
56. Not a Blue Dog for sure.
Maybe a Black Dog!

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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
15. It was EASY!
They went to a little known, smooth talking governor of a small Southern State,
and told him, "We will make you President, if you do what we say."

They then used all the skeletons in their closets, MILLIONS of dollars from Corporate Sponsors,
and all the dirty tricks of a well choreographed Madison Avenue Marketing Scam
to BUY him a presidency.

Remember, almost nobody knew who Bill Clinton was before the convention.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Just like Jimmy Carter
He didn't play along and look what happened to him. At least it wasn't as bad as JFK.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Or Obama.
Hand picked. Had the republican threat wiped out by nominating two of the most unelectable candidates ever. Obama got it because I guess they were pretty sure of Hillary, but something about her made them think she might rebel. Don't know if she would, but they must have been worried.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. years in the grooming
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. They didn't care, WIN/WIN for them either way.
They hedged their bets with Hillary,
and it made for great Kabuki Theater,
not to mention Millions in donations for the Horse Race.
For good Kabuki Theater, the outcome MUST appear to remain in doubt up to the last minute.
People will stop donating their food money if it looks like a sure WIN for either candidate,
and it preserved the illusion of a choice.

On the BIG Economic Issues, Obama or Hillary, (or McCain for that matter),
it made no difference to them.... or to us.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
62. I have a different take on this...
Even the Third Way types may differ from the DLC. I think Hillary was increasingly seen as damaged goods with questionable electability in the primaries. Obama had the "star power" and little known baggage thought necessary to start some kind of big-crowd non-movement.*

The Obama-Hillary "fight" was more intramural.

*I think Obama's ability to draw huge crowds may have been intoxicating to the centrists, but the drunk was fatuous: Even a good beer bust holds open the possibility you'll go home with someone at night's end. The DLC/Third Way folks must known there is nothing here that smacks of "change," only "hope." This is a topic worth studying further: What counts for passion in a time where live humans in the street are arrayed "against" social media. Will social passion hold for long in the absence of nothing substantive? Even Lady Gaga and her fans know they are living illusions, and their time will pass.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. Clinton was a founding member of the DLC. He didn't have to be warned to be centrist.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. But he was not pleasing them.
They wanted him to do more, and they went after Gore when he ran. Said he ran too much as a populist.

They wanted it all their way.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-11 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
63. Populism is what the centrists feared, it's what got Clinton elected...
He carried Southern states using a populist edge that other Democratic pols could not hope to win.

Populism is feared by both the DLC and even late-20th Century liberals; the style, corn pone, and the specter of "unromanticized" non-minorities (re: white folks), bellying up to the counter for a piece of the pie is just too much.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
49. He didn't do any founding.
He got selected by the formers. He followed them because he was a state government guy from a small state and thought they might know better. The got him elected. So he thought they might know something. As time went on, I think he figured out they were bogus. He couldn't do anything about it but did give them reason to question Hillary later. So they went with another candidate who felt insecure and trusted the guys from the hot schools and fancy families. I think he was easier to control and still hasn't caught on.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #49
55. You make some good points. It was in a way like being used by them...
and then being obligated.
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Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Thanks.
Edited on Sat Aug-06-11 03:24 PM by Jakes Progress
I think Clinton and Obama are both victims of the "new democrats", that is to say the koch-head take over of the party. I think that is where the Hamiltonian Democrats you describe come from.

That doesn't excuse either of them. Both were way too willing to compromise what they professed. I actually think Obama has a philosophy closer to the new party line. He isn't having to compromise as much. For reasons I have written elsewhere, I think he is a product of the reagan message era.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
31. Yup
If someone tells their cheating spouse, I won't leave you no matter how often you cheat, guess what the cheater is going to do.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. Exactly.
If there are no consequences....why not? :hi:
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
33. Hello? BLACKMAIL.
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-11 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
64. I don't think it is blackmail...
From what I have read and seen re: Obama's college days and early career, about the only thing he held to with great specificity were the dopey Chicago gun laws (really a modern centrist outlook).* The rest was all about appointing to positions of power significant numbers of the opposition, and somehow gaining a diluted "third way." It doesn't work with the modern GOP which has an extremist, hard-line Right Wing ideology which looks for weakness, and plays smash-mouth against it. The only thing that has made the GOP uncomfortable is the Tea Party flap, which is even more extreme. Regardless, Obama had good training, perhaps his own.

* I mention this issue simply because it was so stark amid the rather "floatatious" nature of his other politics.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. I thought the OP was about Bill Clinton?
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. K&R either that, or they selected a more willing accomplice...
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
43. I believe this is a very, very real possibility. What on earth do we DO about it?
Let's assume there is this small group of people controlling things behind the scenes, and many of the elected politicians are NOT really in cahoots but are being controlled. Let's just say that's the truth.

How do we fight that?

Will fighting to overturn Citizens United and other approaches to remove corporate stranglehold on DC help?

I wish Anonymous could help with this. :) Maybe if Murdoch is taken down, there will be a domino effect and the various puppet masters will be exposed.

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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
65. One can hope for Murdoch being "taken down," but ultimately a passive...
approach, IMO. What needs to be done is:

(1) Form a third party (bad track record of success, dating from antebellum days); or
(2) Take over the Democratic Party.

The Second option did work in a short, fitful manner when the large anti-war/civil rights movements moved into the livingroom and took control of the Democratic Party in the late 60s, early 70s. This is what prompted the DLC to prevent such a thing happening again. But it did work.

The BIG problem with this (or any strategy) is that in the new social media age (still operating on a consumerist choice! choice! choice!, and "Choose-your-own-way" basis) what DOES in fact constitute community, constitute "organizing," constitute the reality of political power? The days when I was most active (and effective) some 40-50 yrs. ago are as relevant today as Technicolor Vista-Vision.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
46. No wonder you are a teacher Mad! Cause you sure can hold a class!
Edited on Fri Aug-05-11 07:40 PM by Little Star
This was very well said and showed. Your absolutely right "Then as now, they seem unconcerned about actual voting members of the party." Where else are we going to go??????

Two things jumped out at me. They (TPTB) did not believe they could trust Hillary, therefore she was shown the door. Also after reading all your links in post # 20 regarding Hillary I felt like "a girl's gotta do what a girls gotta do in a man's world". Your links actually made me admire the hell out of her, her brains & her stamina!

Bill Clinton was right when he said (I'm paraphrasing here) that she's (Hillary) way smarter than he is!


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MouseFitzgerald Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
48. Excellent information
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-11 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
51. Interesting. Clinton Foundation purchased the papers of the DLC for its library.
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
52. Excellent OP!
Should be required reading for any Democrat. The DLC/Third Way Dems are not my friend. I suppose we all have to decide for ourselves where we stand in the political spectrum, for me though I'd rather they were in the Republican Party, to make it more moderate and so the Democratic Party could get its values back.

I know there were some hints that Obama was part of this movement before the election, but it seems like they tried pretty hard to hide that. We should take that as a lesson for the future. They're capable of giving us new, shiny saviors whose allegiance to the Third Way is only slightly visible.

Next time, we need to do a better job of exposing our candidates' corporate ties, before the primaries too, after that it's too late.

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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
54. HUGE REC. nt.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
57. knr nt
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-07-11 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
66. Thanks for the post. I grew up the son of a pre-Civil War FL Cracker.
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sparky58 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
67. billy the traitor of the democratic party
It can be described in one word NAFTA. It is no coincidence it only has four letters.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-08-11 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
68. we all knew when Obama gave his keynote speech at the 04 Convention that he was DLC......
at least I thought it was common knowledge
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