If Obama and the Dems had promptly delivered what they promised in 2008

[MannyGoldstein]

then none of this shit-opalooza would be happening. Democrats would have swept the 2010 elections, and the Republicans would have been an irrelevance at this point.

We were lied to by candidates, plain and simple.

18 years of triangulation and appeasement, and here we are.

[ClarkUSA]

1. Pres. Obama protected SS and Medicare benefits from any cuts, contrary to your predictions.

Moving the rhetorical goalpost now? *WWMCDN?















* What Would Monica Crowley Do Now? :rofl:

[MannyGoldstein]

2. One of us is seriously hallucinating

I hope that it's you, because I have a family that depends on me.

[ClarkUSA]

3. WWMCDN?

:rofl:

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. You're not going to shut anyone up with that childish shit.

Any more than you'd shut them up by pulling out the oft-used race card. We're a little tired of that dead pony.

[Enthusiast]

50. I has grown old and stale.

We would have to be brain dead if we didn't notice we were had. It won't be explained away.

[valerief]

5. In the 1.5 trillion cuts discussion, EVERYTHING, including Social Security and Medicare, is on the

table. Bernie Sanders just said it.

[ClarkUSA]

6. Sanders, who "embraced" McConnell's proposal? He is either lying or misinformed.

Read this:

"3 Big Victories for Obama & Dems in Debt Ceiling Fight – Republicans Just Trying to Save Face"
http://tinyurl.com/obamadebtdealvictory

Lots of political analysts like Nate Silver and Eugene Robinson has come to the same conclusion. Senator Al Franken, who voted for the debt deal, also acknowledged this fact as one of the reasons he voted for it.

[Zorra]

23. No. That is bullshit.

Either you have made an error in perception, or you are posting blatantly disingenuous propaganda of the kind that is so common on Fox News.

I listened to the interview that you got your disinformation from three times.

Senator Sanders endorsed McConnell's proposal to "take the case to the American people".

He did not endorse McConnell's "deficit reduction plan".

[Mimosa]

66. Yesterday we were hearing how much Barney Frank loved this plan

Another day a different spin.

[indepat]

44. Surely everyone has seen how this has played out, but how it will continue to play out

cannot be predicted with any more than a 99.9999% certainty. :patriot:

[hfojvt]

71. I clicked on that link and the page was not found

much like those three supposedly big victories. Wait, was one of them $2.5 trillion in cuts?

[Middle finga]

7. Too bad he put them on the table in the first place

[ClarkUSA]

11. It's called rope-a-dope. Republicans got nothing they wanted here in the end, thanks to Pres. Obama.

[Marr]

25. Oh, he roped some dopes, alright. n/t

[noiretextatique]

the only dopes he roped are the american people

question: would you be cheering this awful legislation if a
republican president pushed it? answer: NO.

[noiretextatique]

49. the only dopes he roped are the american people

question: would you be cheering this awful legislation if a
republican president pushed it? answer: NO.

[laconicsax]

63. Really?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/01/eveningnews/main20086598.shtml">Boehner: I got 98 percent of what I wanted.

"I do. When you look at this final agreement that we came to with the white House, I got 98 percent of what I wanted. I'm pretty happy."

What definition of "nothing" are you using when you say that the "Republicans got nothing they wanted here in the end?"

[MrModerate]

8. So looming fiscal disaster, plunging the world economy into catastrophic decline . . .

Will protect Medicare and Social Security? You *are* an optimist.

[ClarkUSA]

16. Until 2013, there are no cuts. A future Democratic-controlled Congress can change policy.

President Obama pushed for that timeline for good reason.

All the more reason to make sure we take back the House and keep the Senate and WH.

[MrModerate]

29. We need job creation through stimulus spending NOW. . .

Last year, actually. 2013 will be too late. We'll be 18 months into The Great Depression 2.0.

[IamK]

77. Replace "Playoffs" with Stimulus and watch this video....

It ain't gonna happen anytime soon....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk

[Prana69]

80. Oh yeah, just like when the Democrats controlled Congress 2008-2010?

How'd that work out for us?

Are you claiming that Obama sold us up the river on a gamble that a future Democratic Congress will be able to repeal / reverse this deal (that you are actually claiming is so awesome)?

Gawd you are delusional.

You do know that the Repukes own the voting machines, the SCOTUS and the media? Do you really think they are going to let the Democrats win Congress again? That was a mistake. They misjudged the size of the swing to Obama, and got the switching figures wrong. That won't happen again.

I admire your tenacity. The depth of your denial is astonishing.

P69

[INdemo]

17. No ..SS and Medicare is not protected.. All entitlements are on the table

and will be decided by this super congress in a couple months..Don't let them fool ya..Obama didn't protect anything for the middle class

[ClarkUSA]

19. That's a false statement. These are the facts --->

"3 Big Victories for Obama & Dems in Debt Ceiling Fight – Republicans Just Trying to Save Face"
http://tinyurl.com/obamadebtdealvictory

The WH fact sheet, NYT's Nate Silver, WaPo's Eugene Robinson, and Senator Al Franken (who voted for the debt deal) all know the facts. Why don't you?

[INdemo]

21. Listen to what Bernie Sanders had to say.

it is not a false statement

[ClarkUSA]

22. No thanks. Sanders, who "embraced" McConnell's proposal? He's either lying or misinformed.

[INdemo]

30. McConnell's proposal??

Well whatever you say...

[Bandit]

32. What Obama said

That's why the second part of this agreement is so important. It establishes a bipartisan committee of Congress to report back by November with a proposal to further reduce the deficit, which will then be put before the entire Congress for an up or down vote. In this stage, everything will be on the table. To hold us all accountable for making these reforms, tough cuts that both parties would find objectionable would automatically go into effect if we don’t act.

Unless there is more than one meaning for the word "everything" :shrug:

[MannyGoldstein]

33. You mean, the same Obama that begged Republicans for $650 b in entitlement cuts?

A few days ago? When the Republicans weren't even asking for these cuts?

Why would you think he wants to cut entitlements today?

[truedelphi]

61. And ain't it grand that we no longer have a Democracy -

We have a Czardom of Twelve.

I am guessing that our "troikas" will all have ponies!

[Unvanguard]

37. "Error 404 - Page not found"

Seems oddly appropriate.

I've already pointed out to you the glaring misinterpretation of the Fact Sheet at the heart of your analysis. I hope you admit your error when the Joint Committee issues its recommendations.

[Ignis]

52. The link to the BLOG you're using as evidence is broken.

But then, so are the philosophical underpinnings of your argument, so I suppose it fits.

[spooked911]

76. "Everyone chill the fuck out, I GOT THIS" is just a FUCKING INSULTING JOKE at this point

with all due respect.

[davidwparker]

56. Did you miss Conyers saying Obama offered up SS and

not the republicans? Conyers told him there would be protests outside the WH.

[truedelphi]

79. Google "Larry Summers" + February 2009 + reform

+ Social Security and you will see that this has been on Obama's plate for a long long time.

He merely had to wait until the Dems lost the House majority, so that the blame can fall on both parties.

[Mimosa]

69. Everything's still on the table according to the President

http://www.advisorone.com/2011/08/02/obama-signs-debt-bill-vows-everything-on-table-for

But, Obama continued, the compromise measure requires a “next step” in which both sides of Congress must come up with a “larger plan to cut the deficit, which is important to the long-term health” of the nation’s economy. “Since you can’t close the deficit with just spending cuts, we’ll need a balanced approach, where everything is on the table,” he said.

Could mean anything.

[dionysus]

4. keep campaigning manny, rock on,lol

[Lorien]

9. Project much?

[Lorien]

10. Agreed. It's almost as if they can't bear any position except "underdog." nt

[xchrom]

12. Indies don't for dems like they did in 08 because

They were looking for right leaning solutions.

They had that in McCain.

They were looking serious left leaning solutions.
They went back to repukes or stayed home.

Dems, bless their hearts, can't fool indies.
Indies want a party of the left when they vote for them.

They got no Hope & little Change.

Nafta? Welfare to Work anyone?

[Ruby the Liberal]

13. You are right, Manny. Even with this vote, they were saying

that even a day delay would give room for constituents to assemble/rant.

Had the Dems pulled all triggers (single payer in 2009, debt ceiling Dec 2010, etc) we would not be in this circus today.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. The Dems' worst mistakes can be boiled down to acting as if they believe

everything the Rs say about them.

We're too liberal?

Ok, we'll vote for a tax cut for billionaires,

We're aft on defense?

Ok, we'll expand that war.

[Tx4obama]

14. And how do you propose the dems could have done that without having 60 dems in the Senate?

Without 60 votes in the Senate NOTHING is able to be done.
Have you missed all the GOP obstruction that has been going on ever since Obama was sworn in?

p.s. We've had 60 democratic senators in the Senate for ONLY 49 days.
Senator Franken was sworn in July 2009 and Senator Kennedy died August 2009.

[MannyGoldstein]

24. Are you saying that Bush got nothing done?

Or that Bush had 60 Republican Senators.

Help me out here, I'm a having some trouble understanding your analysis.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. Bush got things done largely because of Dems who seemed positively eager

to cave for him.

I dont know how many times during the Bush years someone would complain about how their allegedly Democratic Congresscritter had voted for some stinking heap of Republican legislation, and would be met by apologists who said, " He had to vote for it because it was going to pass anyway. To vote against it would have been pointless grandstanding."

No wonder voters have trouble telling the difference between the Ds and the Rs.

[jeff47]

31. Reconciliation bills and a lot better politics

The D's should have brought out the cots for every single Republican filibuster. Would have made a sufficient spectacle on the evening news to demonstrate the R's were the ones "not getting stuff done".

Instead, Congress as a whole was labeled as "not getting stuff done". And D's controlled congress.

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. It would only have taken a simple majority to change the filibuster rule before

Congress was seated in 2009.

Missed opportunity.

[Tesha]

46. They could have changed the fillibuster rules as they organized the Senate.

Why didn't they do that? Did they really believe that
Lieberman and a handful of other not-real-Democrats
were going to go along with enacting DEMOCRATIC
policy?

Tesha

[abelenkpe]

72. Dems need 60 votes but the tiny tea party only needs less than one half of the house

Can you not see why people are venting frustration?














Don't worry most will still vote dem, because republicans are worse.

[INdemo]

15. Brace yourselef..Cause it is going to get a hell-of-a-lot worse in

2012..

[Little Star]

18. Oh, your just a truth teller Manny!! k&r

[killbotfactory]

20. If only I shit gold, I'd be a millionaire.

Life doesn't work that way.

[MrScorpio]

26. There are people who wouldn't have cared IF everything was promptly delivered

Obama wasn't their guy, he played around with too many bigots, he was never lefty enough, he's too emotionally controlled, and so on and so on.

There are plenty enough people who will always have plenty of reasons to diss Obama and the Democrats… And I'm not talking about right wingers.

[EFerrari]

43. Obama extended the wars, the only jobs he created are on Wall Street

and he's protected tax cuts for the wealthy, the opposite of what he said he'd do. His policies have hurt the majority so it's no surprise that "plenty enough" people have reasons to diss him and the Democrats. That's how we lost 2010.

[MrScorpio]

45. And where were the Republicans when all this happened?

Why aren't people holding THEM accountable for holding the nation hostage?

Why is it easier to blame the Black guy, who's the ONLY one in the room with them. instead of going after all the motherfuckers who caused this mess to begin with?

I'm sorry, unless we have the guts to fundamentally change the way our economic system functions in this country, we are ALL subject to the whims of Wall Street. It's never going to happen unless we have a fall back plan. Who's plan, I have to ask.

The Wars suck… But it's always been easier to get into them than out of them… And do you know why? I'll tell you… Because they make MONEY. That's the system that Obama inherited. If you think that any President can just pull out of one quickly and unilaterally, you're dreaming. It'll never happen. Especially, without massively popular opposition against them… Have you seen any of that? I haven't. Most people aren't even aware that we're even AT war.

So, now that things never turned out every single way we wanted them to, it's easier to whine and complain instead of getting up off our duffs and doing something about. Easier to just blame the Black Guy, no matter what he does. It's too hard to take on our real enemies, the fucking Republicans.

We lost because we chose to lose.

[EFerrari]

47. Where were they? Not responsible for Obama's committments

or for his lack of leadership, that's where.

[quakerboy]

62. We went after them

We tossed them out on their ears. 2006, 2008. We elected President Obama and big majorities of Democrats all around. Then they pissed it away. Which means that Barack Obama, the President, the position with the "buck stops here" placeholder, pissed it away.

If the previous guy fucks shit up, and you dump him and bring on a new guy with the understanding he will fix it, but he does not fix it, what do you do then?

Do you blame a wasp for stinging you? How do you blame a republican for being a republican? But if I bring in an exterminator, and all he does is poke around in their nest with a stick a bit, and I get stung, I'm probably gonna be pissed at the exterminator.

We lost because the grass roots had no support from those we elected. The roots need leaves to gather sunlight and turn it into sugar to fuel the plant through the hard times.

In short, no more excuses. When you take on high office, you either deliver results or you do not. And then you should be judged on those results. No matter if you are Black or White or both, male or female, or any permutation of humanity. Results.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FiveGoodMen]

35. In retrospect, it seems obvious that he never intended to keep any of those promises

He played us.

We fell for it.

And personal loyalty has kept many from figuring out how badly we've been betrayed.

[SammyWinstonJack]

38. +1000

:thumbsup:

[Unvanguard]

36. What did they promise in 2008?

You know, actually, rather than in the fantasies of many of their supporters?

A key element of the Obama coalition was rhetoric designed to appeal simultaneously to liberals and centrists by appearing to promise both what they wanted.

[LWolf]

39. When I objected to his nomination,

I was lectured about how he was the "not dlc" choice.

When I objected to his appointments, I was told "He/they haven't even done anything yet. Give them a chance!"

When I objected to the direction his administration took during the first 90 days, the first 6 months, the first year, I was told, "He hasn't had enough time! Give him more time!!!!!"

Well, I think he's had plenty of time, and I think he's used it to destroy the party and the nation.

[Major Hogwash]

41. All of this "coulda, woulda, shoulda" crap is useless. We are where we are. Now we must do something

about it.

Pure and simple.

Sorry to throw a wet blanket on this thread, but you should know better than to try and relive the past, Manny.

[Tesha]

48. It wouldn't be useless if we were to learn from this history.

Think we will?

Tesha

[MannyGoldstein]

51. I think the "Democrats had their hands tied" crowd needs

To be reminded of how we got here. We had a mandate, and flushed it down the toilet.

[babylonsister]

73. I think people like you should look at what he was contending with.

His plate was overloaded with the crap left to him by the previous resident; he's one man and that wouldn't be king or a god. :eyes:

[Hoyt]

55. Exactly. Doesn't matter whose fault, who did what or didn't, etc. We have a mess-- need to fix it.

I don't even care if they have to discuss my SS or Medicare as part of the solution(s) -- just do it.

[Skittles]

53. CORRECT

Obama has fucking SQUANDERED EVERYTHING

[DCBob]

54. sounds so simple.

[Richardo]

59. I know - what was he THINKING?

All this brain power gone to waste - all he had to do was ask :cry:

[Armstead]

68. Nogt simple -- But a lot more straightforward than its been made out to be

Attention to a few basic principles -- and actually fighting for them -- would have helped a lot.

All of this triangulation, concessions, mixed messages, etc. sure hasn't done it, so there's no reason not to try a more straightforward fight against the lies and destructiveness of GOP.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pleah]

58. K&R

[Agony]

60. I HATE it that you are right.

but thanks for saying it... maybe if we throw the truth around enough some of it will stick

Cheerio!
Agony

[MissDeeds]

64. You're right, Manny

Some here would like to blame the voters for the debacle, never mind that those we elected let the voters down. It makes much more sense to blame those who went door to door, donated money they didn't have to spare, manned phone lines, drove people to the polls and believed in the change we were promised. Yes, the voters let the politicians down. Shame on us.

K&R

[leftstreet]

65. K&R

[Veracious]

67. SHOULD HAVE PROSECUTED the BUSH ADMIN.

This was the biggest mistake ever. The Republiklan would have been on the run for years. I'm sick of reacting to these Teatards. We need to be proactive!

[SharksBreath]

75. Exactly. Everyday on your TV for the next 4 years.

Everyday the American public being reminded of what the Republicans did to this country.

How quickly they have forgot.

That's what happens when you look forward instead of backward.

[quaker bill]

70. 56 days

with a filibuster proof majority.

[swilton]

74. and they expect scare us to voting for them in 2012

because the tea-baggers might get in:rofl:

[RowdyRacer]

78. When Obama Plays Basketball...

does he shoot the ball in the other teams goal???