Those rooting for a "compromise" -- Don't get pissed when the carnage starts.

[Armstead]

Right now this is all about numbers and figures and political posturing and drama.

"I'll take your Trillion and raise you Two Trillion." "Oh a billion here, a billion there..."

But once the noise dies down and these "cuts" take affect, brace yourself for a whole lot of bad, bad news, as programs are slashed and burned and new initiatives become impossible. And as the social safety net is unraveled, opportunities for advancement shut down.....And as all of the Public Sector and Common-Wealth is starved.

And when you start hearing horror stories about old people unable to get medical care...Job training programs getting slashed....Rotting bridges remaining unfixed...Libraries and schools closed....etc. etc.

It would be bad enough, as we have seen the last few years," just because of the economy.

But when you add all of carnage that is going so occur because of the "austerity" and "shared sacrifice" and "compromise" ....It is going to be one ungodly mess. The GOP and the wealthy Oligarchs, of course will say "Bravo. Government is dying, and we remain untouched."

But everyone else is about to get HOSED in a major fashion for an extended period of time.

And what's worse, it would have been unnecessary if Obama and the Waffle Democrats (not all Democrats) had bothered to think tactically and also stood firm on a few basic principles.

[CleanGreenFuture]

1. Man, high oil/gas prices and averice are wrecking everything these days.

I'd say this civilization has peaked and is on it's way out.

We go back to a morphed form of feudalism.

It's going to be a bumpy ride.

[aquart]

2. Nobody making over $250,000 is going to share ANY sacrifice.

[leveymg]

3. Raw Deal. There is no real emergency. The Fed would cover the Treasury if there is

no agreement by Tues. Please see the thread here about the Fed's emergency powers to cover any losses to the banking system (and indirectly the public) before they happen: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1604107#1604160

[Armstead]

4. Whether or not......Once these cuts are imposed and start taking effect, it will be a bloody mess

[leveymg]

6. Absolutely. This is another contrived crisis in a string of them to force through

austerity and low tax policies wanted by this White House. This is not the first time the American people have been taken hostage by this President and the leaders of both parties, and it won't be the last - Medicare and other entitlement cuts coming before the end of the year.

[girl gone mad]

5. k & r

[Armstead]

9. That soup has too much food in it. I demand you remove some noodles and carrots

[Bonobo]

7. Good cop, bad cop.

All working for the corporations and Wall Street.

[Armstead]

10. I didn't use to think so....But I'm polishing my tin hat these days

[Kablooie]

8. And of course this all will destroy more jobs and increase unemployment.

Instead of trying to create jobs they are doing all they can to eliminate as many jobs as they can while killing the support systems for the underemployed.

Welcome to the United States of America in the 21st century.


Damn bloody apes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. My bet is... and yes I am in a very dark mood tonight

that this will unleash forces that they can hardly comprehend or control... but this is what it will take for those forces to be unleashed.

[Armstead]

12. I think it may do just the opposite. Niot with a bang but a whimper.

I think it will further demoralize the population, alienate people from politics and feed into cynicism and detachment and apathy regarding public life.

Which will feed into the GOP's ability to win, and solidify the status quo.

Our nation will descend further, not with a bang but a whimper.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. And such a process ends in places like Tahrir square

that one took over thirty years to cook.

[Armstead]

14. Maybe in the distant future....But not anytime forerseeable

I've seen this movie unfolding for about 35 years. And every time I think we've reached a point where people are going to get pissed and active, the nation falls further asleep.

This will be a giant narcotic, further stupefying the populace with learned helplessness.

(As you can tell, I'm feeling discouraged tonite too.)

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Oh this will give you some heart

like Tahrir it will be unexpected... especially to those in DC.

We are like the kitties in Shorringer's CAT box... but in a way WI is probably the leading edge of that one...

But since we are inside the box... and especially DC is inside the box, they really cannot see it. It exists and does not at the same time.

I cannot tell you the moment... but it will come. Perhaps after I am also pushing daisies... but it will come.

And like you I am in a very dark mood tonight.

[Waiting For Everyman]

34. I agree with you, the next Black Swan is coming.

When the kettle boils, it's on.

[Joe the Revelator]

16. For the love of god, give it a rest with the doom and gloom...

What is the last prediction you got right about our immenent demise.

[Armstead]

17. Do you think we're doing great?

Are you glad that they will be putting the scalpel to so many programs, and not doing others because of the cuts they are envisioning?

I'm glad you live in a world of pink fluffy bunnies.

[Joe the Revelator]

20. Things are tough, but I don't see 'dark forces' or...

Civil wars or vague threats that only I am smart enough to fathem bearing down on us.

[Armstead]

21. I'm not talking about those either....Just a lot more suffering and...

likely political losses for the Democrats.

Nothing dramatic. Just that the mud pit will get stickier and deeper for most people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Oh the losses go without saying

Methinks a lot of people will stay home in 2012... and to be honest, can't blame them.

[JVS]

23. You need to think more about what's happening.

Either a compromise will be reached and its consequential "austerity" will be a big kick in the nuts to a country that's been having a really shitty past 4 years already, or Obama will pull some kind of clever move (14th amendment, minting a coin, etc.) that allows him to raise the debt ceiling without congress and all those teabaggers will go completely off the handle. The only light spot is that when they try to impeach him they won't have the votes, but that will probably drive them even batshit crazier.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. So you think something like oh Tahrir square

is not possible in the US?

And since you seem to need a refresher in US History... tell me how well did we do socially during the Great Depression?

I know it is not that much covered but we did have social problems at the time, and a well documented march on DC.

I know this is a hard concept for some to accept but an austerity plan slows down economies, does not stimulate them, and increases social pain... and that wil lead to at least SOME social dislocation.

Oh and tell me... how functional is the US government right now? Or was the professor from Yale on the MSNBC just yesterday comparing it to the HIGHLY FUNCTIONAL congress that preceded the civil war just trying to spread panic too?

If you do not want to bother with your beautiful mind I sugest the ignore button. It will keep things in a more happy place.

I happen to look at TRENDS and they are not happy TRENDS. If you do not want to do that, please don't. And nobody is forcing you to do such.

[Joe the Revelator]

28. We get it, you like trends Nadin, you are a student of history, we all get it...

But I also get that you live in a fantasy world of hoping for the worst and expecting calamity. At the end of the day your words effect and worry those who don't understand that you don't know nearly as much as you pretend to. Your posts are like a bad palm reading, Couching promises of unparalleled disaster with vague comments of things only you can know. And that's not right Nadin.

My beautiful mind is just fine, when we deal with fact and not wild conjecture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Now that is a personal attack

calling this fantasy world... have a good day... instead of dealing with the actual content you go on the attack... uncouth. Whatever, yep you should use the ignore feature, serious.

[Joe the Revelator]

32. You call it a personal attack, I call it bringing to your attention...

That the fantasy stories you weave are actually taken seriously by some folks, and that's not fair to them.

[girl gone mad]

18. What's the last prediction you got right about our "recovery"?

[LoZoccolo]

19. Then we vote in people who rescind the cuts.

Easier said than done, of course, but I don't there's a way around building a more liberal electorate.

[Armstead]

24. I agree with you. But we sort of thought that's what we were doing in 2008.

nt

[KittyWampus]

22. LOL! Yeah, all Obama & the Dems in Congress had to do is wave their magic wand.

Of course, you can't really explain how "standing firm on a few basic principles" would have forced the Teabaggers into doing anything else but default.

I think this is more a "For the Idealouges who insisted on purity and didn't bother to vote in the last Election"

[Armstead]

26. No, I could mention many alternative ways this could have been handled

Many have suggested ways this mess could have been avoided all along the way. Nothing beyond basic common sense and avoiding dumb mistakes.

It's not a matter of "ideological purity."

Just basic strategic failure and lack of backbone.

[grahamhgreen]

27. Or if they ended the wars and let the Bush cuts expire.

[Armstead]

29. Stop talking sense

Don't you know they have to engage in convoluted BS instead of applying straightforward common sense?

[kickysnana]

33. Never ever called for compromise. Straight up down debt ceiling vote here. n/t

[Armstead]

37. You can get pissed then

[ProSense]

35. So

are there two groups: those rooting for compromise and those rooting for default?

Frankly, if "carnage starts," I'd hope everyone gets pissed!

See, the carnage isn't going to only affect the people "rooting for compromise."

[Armstead]

36. That's a false dichotomy you are creating

There are other ways -- Like if Obama and the Democratic leadership had headed this off at the pass earlier using different strategies. And, instead of starting at agreement with the GOP and moving further towards their position during the "negotiations" and deals had at least stayed somewhat in liberal territory for a bargaining position.

You are correct. The carnage will affect everyone (except the wealthy and corporate America). But those who are rooting for a compromise that is not a compromise -- and belittling those who are opposed to that strategy -- is what I am referring to.

By the way, I have heard from a number of my friends and acquaintances who are moderate Democrats who have been very supportive of President Obama. And they are pissed at him and the Democtratic leadership too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. IRL so have I

people are pissed... and IMHO for good reason.