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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:41 PM Original message |
Atheist Group Files Lawsuit To Stop Display of World Trade Center Cross |
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LAGC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:45 PM Response to Original message |
1. I wonder how all the Jewish and Muslim victims at the WTC feel about that cross? |
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Adsos Letter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:48 PM Response to Reply #1 |
4. First thing that came to my mind too. |
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Drahthaardogs (482 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 08:17 PM Response to Reply #4 |
111. Why does it matter? |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 08:50 PM Response to Reply #111 |
113. Putting a cross up is proselytizing. It also flat out breaches the establishment clause. |
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Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-30-11 07:50 AM Response to Reply #113 |
121. Why did Christians have to pick this fight.. indeed |
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Arugula Latte (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:55 PM Response to Reply #1 |
10. And the non-believer victims, as well. |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 03:53 PM Response to Reply #1 |
25. About the same as descendants of 15,776... |
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LAGC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 09:10 AM Response to Reply #25 |
49. You really want to compare this to the Holocaust? |
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YellowRubberDuckie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 07:32 PM Response to Reply #49 |
105. Tell the Christians that. |
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BNJMN (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 02:20 PM Response to Reply #25 |
67. Interesting perspective, I honestly never thought of that. [nt] |
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Raine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:43 PM Response to Reply #25 |
85. Interesting point. THANKS, I hadn't thought of that. nt |
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FLPanhandle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:47 PM Response to Original message |
2. If it's on private property, how could they sue? |
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Xithras (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:52 PM Response to Reply #2 |
5. It's not. |
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Brickbat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:47 PM Response to Original message |
3. The WTC was full of crosses and that didn't stop much of anything. |
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MADem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:53 PM Response to Original message |
6. You know, I normally don't get too exorcised about these "public displays of religiosity" but |
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Joanie Baloney (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 07:27 AM Response to Reply #6 |
43. Heh heh |
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YellowRubberDuckie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 07:34 PM Response to Reply #6 |
106. Stop persecuting the Christians who were targeted in the WTC, traitor!! |
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KurtNYC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:53 PM Response to Original message |
7. what a weird story -- no group named, no court filing cited |
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cordelia (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-30-11 07:27 AM Response to Reply #7 |
119. From the NY Times |
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Proles (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:53 PM Response to Original message |
8. What do they want to do? Tear it down? |
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lbrtbell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 01:06 PM Response to Reply #8 |
12. I agree. |
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NYC Liberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 03:52 PM Response to Reply #12 |
22. You do realize that it's not fixed in the ground? It's already been moved |
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Proles (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 06:51 PM Response to Reply #22 |
42. Nah, I didn't in fact know that. |
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RaleighNCDUer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 01:27 PM Response to Reply #8 |
16. No. Just move it back to the church it came from. |
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undeterred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 03:53 PM Response to Reply #16 |
24. It didn't come from a church, that's the whole point. |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:41 PM Response to Reply #24 |
35. So move it to a church, or some other private memorial site. |
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RaleighNCDUer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 11:10 AM Response to Reply #24 |
51. From the article. |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 02:31 PM Response to Reply #8 |
19. HISTORICAL PORTION? It's two beams joined at 90 degrees out of THOUSANDS so joined - by men. nt |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:42 PM Response to Reply #19 |
37. LORD, IT'S A MIRACLE!!! |
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Raine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:45 PM Response to Reply #8 |
86. I agree nt |
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Arugula Latte (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 12:54 PM Response to Original message |
9. The cross is inappropriate. 100s of the victims weren't Xtian. |
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Nye Bevan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 08:31 AM Response to Reply #9 |
48. The majority of the victims were Christian. |
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Arugula Latte (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 11:44 AM Response to Reply #48 |
52. Why do they need any religious symbol? |
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Cid_B (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 12:32 PM Response to Reply #52 |
98. Existing is not shoving it into your face... |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 05:03 PM Response to Reply #98 |
100. Putting a Christian symbol in a public space is, indeed, shoving it into ones face. |
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Cid_B (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 06:04 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. Yup.... |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 07:59 PM Response to Reply #101 |
108. That's rather Christian of you. Some people believe that fighting for civil rights |
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Cid_B (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 08:14 PM Response to Reply #108 |
110. I'm sure... |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 08:46 PM Response to Reply #110 |
112. So, supposedly, veterans have fought in our wars in order to protect the American way of life... |
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NoGOPZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 01:05 PM Response to Original message |
11. Can I sue over the idea that finding crossed beams in skyscraper wreckage is significant? nt |
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Bill McBlueState (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 02:50 PM Response to Reply #11 |
69. +1 n/t |
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RKP5637 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 01:07 PM Response to Original message |
13. hmmmmm... cross celebrating god's destruction of the WTC? It happened on |
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Scottybeamer70 (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 01:11 PM Response to Original message |
14. I don't see why there should be ANY religious symbol at that |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:50 PM Response to Reply #14 |
38. Imagine the reaction if they found a bent piece of steel in the shape of a cresent and mounted it. |
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Critters2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:30 PM Response to Reply #38 |
82. There almost certainly were beams melted into crescents. |
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Tunkamerica (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 01:23 PM Response to Original message |
15. one of the commentors said it's a giant t for taliban |
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RC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 01:36 PM Response to Reply #15 |
17. +1 |
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Vinca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 01:39 PM Response to Original message |
18. Stuff like this gives atheists a bad name. |
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cayanne (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 03:44 PM Response to Reply #18 |
20. Not me |
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LanternWaste (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:01 PM Response to Reply #20 |
29. Just like politics, philosophies, arts, etc |
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COLGATE4 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 01:04 PM Response to Reply #29 |
63. Flip answer to a serious comment. The poster (and those of |
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GSLevel9 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:19 PM Response to Reply #20 |
30. then ignore them. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:34 PM Response to Reply #30 |
33. Yes, because their message is on our currency, we make pledges that mention vegetables, |
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GSLevel9 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:41 PM Response to Reply #33 |
36. lol good reply. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 05:05 PM Response to Reply #36 |
40. Quite a few people did and do. Including the Founding Fathers and the Supreme Court. |
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humblebum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:08 PM Response to Reply #20 |
76. Yes, that's generally called freedom of speech and religion. You have it too. nt |
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NYC Liberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 03:48 PM Response to Reply #18 |
21. I'm not. Put it on private property without using taxpayer funds. |
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Bluebear (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 03:53 PM Response to Reply #18 |
23. The message is that Islam attacked a Christian nation, it's not for solace. |
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FLPanhandle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 03:55 PM Response to Reply #18 |
26. Religion was a cause of the attack. |
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idiotgardener (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 03:57 PM Response to Reply #18 |
27. You mean asking for the law to be followed and for our rights to be respected? |
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truebrit71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:22 PM Response to Reply #18 |
31. Not me. This is implicit endorsement of one religion over all others... |
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alphafemale (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 05:38 PM Response to Reply #18 |
41. I'm agnostic at the very least. Leaning atheist. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 10:06 AM Response to Reply #41 |
96. Apparently, so do some Jews. |
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piratefish08 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 07:32 AM Response to Reply #18 |
44. that pesky Constitution doesn't bother you at all? |
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Nye Bevan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 07:51 AM Response to Reply #44 |
45. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 08:26 AM Response to Reply #45 |
47. So if all public spaces had a giant Star of David, you wouldn't think |
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Vinca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 12:00 PM Response to Reply #47 |
56. No. For starters, it's private property. |
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NoGOPZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 12:07 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. Public funds are involved. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is a government agency. nt |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 12:19 PM Response to Reply #56 |
58. It most certainly is not - owned by NYPA. |
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Vinca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 12:34 PM Response to Reply #58 |
60. Mea culpa. I didn't realize it was considered public property. |
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COLGATE4 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 01:06 PM Response to Reply #45 |
64. You really ought to look at some Constitutional Law before making |
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Nye Bevan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 02:12 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. Sorry, did I misquote the Constitution? What does it really say? (nt) |
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humblebum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:12 PM Response to Reply #66 |
78. It says exactly what you wrote and that is exactly what it means. |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 10:05 AM Response to Reply #18 |
95. Does this lawsuit give Jews a bad name? |
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GSLevel9 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:00 PM Response to Original message |
28. Some people just wont leave others the fuck alone. |
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Nye Bevan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 07:52 AM Response to Reply #28 |
46. +1. This "atheist group" should just leave the victims the fuck alone. |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 12:20 PM Response to Reply #46 |
59. All those 100% Xian victims eh? nt |
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Arugula Latte (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 12:43 PM Response to Reply #46 |
61. The nannies are the ones imposing their religion on others. nt |
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wickerwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 09:13 PM Response to Reply #28 |
114. Exactly, |
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Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 09:20 PM Response to Reply #114 |
115. +! Why do Christians have to pick this fight? |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:29 PM Response to Original message |
32. So let me get this straight... |
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Arugula Latte (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 11:47 AM Response to Reply #32 |
53. Amazing how it always works out with gawd coming out clean as a whistle, huh? |
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spanone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:37 PM Response to Original message |
34. they should have multi-religious symbol....or no religious symbol at all |
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marions ghost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-27-11 04:56 PM Response to Reply #34 |
39. right |
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Solly Mack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 09:15 AM Response to Original message |
50. Jesus in toast and now intersecting steel I-beams as a *holy* instrument of torture. |
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GoneOffShore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 11:48 AM Response to Original message |
54. Not a miracle - there aren't any - and should not be part of the memorial |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 11:50 AM Response to Original message |
55. I don't blame them...what about all the other religous people that |
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Cali_Democrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 12:49 PM Response to Original message |
62. That cross it totally inappropriate IMO. n/t |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 01:11 PM Response to Original message |
65. Question for those that are really upset about the placement of the "cross". |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 02:47 PM Response to Reply #65 |
68. Apples and oranges nt |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 04:36 PM Response to Reply #68 |
73. Peaches and Herb |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 04:43 PM Response to Reply #73 |
74. Sure. The WTC 'cross' is not religious art |
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onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:11 PM Response to Reply #74 |
77. everyone's an art critic. |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:28 PM Response to Reply #77 |
79. Is Mt McKinley art? |
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Rex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:30 PM Response to Reply #79 |
80. You do make a point that cannot be argued rationally against. |
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deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 03:36 PM Response to Original message |
70. OH, THE HORROR! |
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Taverner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:30 PM Response to Reply #70 |
81. Ahhh once again it's OK for Christians to shove religion down our throat |
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deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 12:21 PM Response to Reply #81 |
97. As long as they aren't shoving one up my ass, I got better |
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Old Troop (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 04:05 PM Response to Original message |
71. Oh my goodness. It was featured in an iconic photograph and was |
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humblebum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 04:14 PM Response to Original message |
72. It was there before and it is there again. nt |
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LAGC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 01:35 AM Response to Reply #72 |
87. We'll see for how long. (n/t) |
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glinda (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 04:44 PM Response to Original message |
75. Always thought that was inappropriate. Glad some are speaking up. |
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Arugula Latte (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:33 PM Response to Original message |
83. Idea: Someone please put a big circle with a red slash through it in front of that thing. |
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cordelia (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 05:59 AM Response to Reply #83 |
88. Idea: Have at it. |
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Union Scribe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-28-11 05:42 PM Response to Original message |
84. How bigoted of the building to fall down with such a pattern in its steel. |
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GoneOffShore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 09:36 AM Response to Reply #84 |
89. ..... |
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SteppingRazor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 09:45 AM Response to Original message |
90. Meh. I have no problem with it. It's a historical artifact, it belongs in a museum. |
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socialshockwave (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 09:47 AM Response to Reply #90 |
91. I'm a Christian |
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SteppingRazor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 09:52 AM Response to Reply #91 |
92. For me, the only question that matters is whether the thing has historical value. |
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socialshockwave (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 09:54 AM Response to Reply #92 |
94. Oh, very much agreed. |
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GoneOffShore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 04:57 PM Response to Reply #92 |
99. Can you perhaps explain the "historical value" to me? |
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SteppingRazor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 06:37 PM Response to Reply #99 |
102. If the face-in-a-sandwich had been connected to a major historical event... |
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GoneOffShore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 07:02 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. Nope. Just a sandwich. |
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SteppingRazor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 07:31 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. But the cross, on the other hand, is not just a cross. |
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GoneOffShore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 07:58 PM Response to Reply #104 |
107. Because it's not a "cross" ! |
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SteppingRazor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 10:05 PM Response to Reply #107 |
116. As I mentioned at the beginning of this subthread... |
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GoneOffShore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 10:41 PM Response to Reply #116 |
117. I disagree with you, but as you say, what we think is irrelevant. |
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GreenPartyVoter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 09:52 AM Response to Original message |
93. If they present it as debris preserved from the attack, that's one thing, but to |
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GoneOffShore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 07:59 PM Response to Reply #93 |
109. Good call - It's that whole "It must mean something" meme |
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WildEyedLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-29-11 10:50 PM Response to Original message |
118. "The cross serves as a reminder that God didn't stop 3000 people from being killed" |
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piratefish08 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-30-11 07:35 AM Response to Reply #118 |
120. "atheist groups" |
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