Just a friendly reminder-- this whole "crisis" is manufactured and phony.

[Marr]

The debt ceiling is always raised as a matter of general housekeeping, but this year it's being sold as an unprecedented crisis that requires "shared sacrifice" to overcome.

The debt ceiling is always raised because that's what big business wants, and they stand to lose more than anyone in an economic meltdown. We're regularly told that the markets will crumble if they get so much as a case of melancholy, after all-- and yet here we are, days from "armageddon", and the markets are ticking along just fine, confident and happy. Wall Street certainly doesn't seem frightened.

What's more, it's pretty widely accepted, especially here on DU, that the GOP is a wholly-owned subsidiary of big business (along with the faction of Dems who are playing up this "crisis", oddly enough), and yet this entire scare is based on the belief that these corporate yes-men will give the finger to Wall Street simply to make some ideological point. As if they have an ideological point. Servicing the wealthy is their only ideology, and that's all that's going on here.

Any politician urging "concessions" on things like Social Security or Medicare in the face of this transparently phony con job is in on the con.

[still_one]

1. You are absolutely right, but it is too late, the talking points have taken hold, and the middle

class and poor will be the losers

[RedCloud]

48. But they promised job!!! The old bait and switch.

[tekisui]

2. Exactly. Neither party will allow defualt. This is all a pissing contest

to cut social services and force the pain onto to people.

[Stuart G]

13. well said. nt

[go west young man]

61. Exactamondo.

[emulatorloo]

Unfortunately, I am starting to think the Republicans WILL allow default.

- There are a lot of "true beleivers" in the House.
- The conservative media machine is printing editorials minimizing the consequences of not raising the debt ceiling "Not that big of a deal, we can fix it later:"

[robinlynne]

35. NOpe big business told them last week no way no how. And for one or two days

the dow was going down when it was mentioned.

there is no chance they will not raise the debt ceiling. Obama doesn't need to do a thing. He is giving away our social security because he wants to. not because he has to or should. neither is true.

[emulatorloo]

14. DU douBLE POST. delete.

[Chan790]

45. You're absolutely wrong unfortunately.

The GOP's Tea Party morons actually want a default and there are just enough of them in the House to muck any deal. I live on Cap Hill. I'm surrounded by these idjits and their staffs. They're very real...they care about only one thing and that is reducing the deficit. They view this ceiling-hike as something they are simply not doing under any condition without any concern for the consequences.

Short of having them killed, the way Chiquita got caught doing in South America, what exactly do you think big business is going to do to compel people who want to blow up the economy for the pretty fire-show and to suffer their neighbors and economy they blame for their own problems in life? :shrug:

Anybody taking this not-seriously or thinking it's just disaster capitalism, they have their head in the sand.

[leveymg]

50. Do you believe the extreme Right isn't part of "disaster capitalism"? It's a necessary part

of the political equation to ensure that whatever comes out of the engineered collapse of the targeted economy isn't a popular government that represents the majority of the inhabitants.

The extreme Right serves several tactical purposes. During the crisis it can be relied upon to create social tensions and divisions that distract people from the fact that the economy and currency is under attack from outside hedge funds and speculators. The extreme Right also helps to give the centrist regime in place during the takedown a veneer of respectability. Finally, the extreme Right will prove useful after civil order has broken down as a counterweight to any popular armed insurgency that might develop -- it is the recruiting pool for mercenaries and private-public death squads.

The centrists who vote to dismantle the social safety net and privatize government functions, and to sell off assets to foreign banks -- that is Obama and centrist Democrats and GOP -- are a necessary part of the process, but so are the Right-wing extremists. They're both necessary but insufficient to the outcome of disaster capitalism, which is collapse of the old social democratic government and its replacement by an authoritarian police state.

[Chan790]

66. I think the disaster capitalists have lost control of their chained monster..

The tea party was only useful as long as they didn't actually think for themselves. The corporate control mechanism was working great for the disaster capitalists until the tea party became aware of their power and loosed themselves from control. Now they're a pain in the ass. If the net-effect of this is to destroy the tea-party you aren't going to get many tears from the likes of Boehner or McConnell, nor from Romney or Wall St. The capitalist berserkers served their purpose...they can go away now with a "please don't touch anything on your way out. k'thnxbye."

Note who is driving the effort to discredit the Tea Party leaders within the right-coalition...it's not us half as much as it's the people behind the corporate wing like Armey and Rove.* That's who is putting these idiots on the air with no press-prep so they'll implode, that's who is pushing the "OMG! Marcus Bachmann is closeted gay man" story too...and the "Rick Perry hangs out with crazy religious nuts". That's who is working to make sure any failure on the debt-ceiling only tars the tea. Always ask, "who does this benefit?" that's the hand you'll find in the cookie jar 9 times out of 10.

*-Let's be honest. Anybody who wants to see the GOP lose badly is rooting for Michele Bachmann to take the GOP nomination.

[mdmc]

51. then let them and let them deal with the corporations

the corporations created the tea, they will destroy the tea..

[arcane1]

3. And sadly, both sides are perpetuating it :(

[Atman]

4. The Freshman Tea Baggers are politically illiterate buffoons.

They were bought and paid for by the Koch's astroturf campaign, and don't know shit about history or government. Paul Revere rode through the streets ringin' his bells about takin' our guns away. The "shot heard 'round the world" was fired in New Hampshire. These people are stupid fucking idiots, and now they're running the country, even though they're about 10% of the legislature. These are crazy times. Crazy.

.

[emulatorloo]

17. They are "true believers" and they are willing to take down the US

I fully believe that Boehner wants the debt limit raise. But this crowd is not listening to Boehner. More and more and more of the House folks WANT THE DEFAULT TO HAPPEN.

[Atman]

27. Boehner is a feckless wimp, empowered by an accident of history.

He is powerless and worthless. He was never "leadership" material. We've all met them, the Alpha Dogs, the people who just command a room, make people want to listen to them. Boehner isn't one of them. He's a crying, simpering wimp, and no one respects him. He's great at buying drinks for his buddies in the DC bars, and that's the only reason anyone pays any attention to him. He and Harry Reid should be roomies.

.

[Dr Fate]

21. DEMS voted to give the Koch Brothers massive tax cut extensions.

And Obama signed it with a smile on his face.

So DEMS more or less voted and then signed off to give more money to tea baggers.

Centrist "strategy" is truly briliant.

These people are stupid fucking idiots, and now they're running the country.

Crazy!

[Atman]

28. Not much to argue with there.

:shrug:

[Dr Fate]

30. If DEMS want me to hate the Kochs so much, a good start would be to stop giving them my money.

I got a letter from Harry Reid warnuing me about all the awful things the Koch brothers were going to do with the money he, Obama and centrist DEMS gave them.

Apparently Reid needed me to give more money to the DEMS who gave money to the Kochs. The incentive being that if I did not give money to the DEMS who gave money to the Kochs, the Kochs would do awful things with that money.

Or something like that.

[robinlynne]

36. agreed. I expect shit from the republicans.

[originalpckelly]

5. Exactly. It's just a way to push austerity through.

This government is a SHAM. It's not of, by or for the people anymore, unless you consider "the people" to the "the people" who own everything.

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. Not that it matters. Not the first time and won't be the last.

'THANK GOD IT PASSED' :evilgrin:

[tavalon]

7. This shouldn't even have to be a reminder

[monmouth]

8. Any pol in their right mind knows this is how to lose the next election, and

that includes POTUS. It's. Not. Going. To. Happen.... Now a $1300 COLA to those on SS would secure a win. I mean, it would in my book...

[WinkyDink]

25. 1. Obama might not care; 2. Do you mean a decrease of a $1300 COLA?

[monmouth]

29. A $1300 per year COLA increase would help put peas on the table..n/t

[Tikki]

9. That is a very TRUE statement.....eom

Tikki

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. While you are right

manufactured crisis tend to become real crisis... they morph somewhere and you have children holding a nuclear device willing to use it. They have the codes and everything.

[emulatorloo]

15. Yes, I am afraid Republicans are starting to actually BELEIVE their rhetoric.

Many signs are pointing to Republicans being willing to allow default.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Oh they believe it alright

fools!

[emulatorloo]

18. And we are all going to have to suffer because of it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I suspect a few of these idiots will

Soon learn what true ire of the people is.

[sofa king]

33. And the ire of their masters, as well.

It's going to hurt them so much more than it hurts us--most of us, after all, do not have a reasonable social safety net anymore, financial or otherwise, while they stand to lose theirs.

The Republicans will do exactly as they are told. That is what they are paid for.

[TBF]

49. Do you really think that repeating something one hundred times in the same thread makes it true?

nt

[SSDA]

11. Exactly!

Right on the mark!

We are being scammed.

[woo me with science]

12. It is THEFT. It is a planned assault and mugging of the poor, the old, and the vulnerable.

This was planned well in advance to bypass the people they are supposed to represent, make no mistake about it.

[freshwest]

38. +1,000

39. And that is the meat of the matter. I agree...

as the previous respondent said, +1000.

[myrna minx]

19. Exactly. K&R n/t

[cbdo2007]

22. Makes a good headline though...

"UNITED STATES DISBANDS DUE TO DEBT DISASTER!!!"

That's really all it's about, even more than politics is the media.

[WinkyDink]

23. I'll go one further: Not only "urging," but "reluctantly signing," "agreeing for bi-partisanship,"

or any OTHER FACADE.

[StarburstClock]

24. You got that right, our torturing culture could care less about reality

Most only care about how they can spin reality and not get caught committing whatever crime they're involved in.

[damntexdem]

26. That big business buys something doesn't mean they always control it.

That sometimes occurs with companies or divisions of companies. And it may be true of teabaggers and other RW ideologues that big business thought it would be smart to promote to elected office. In fact, a major problem ruling elites have always had is when their minions become loose cannons.

[AntiFascist]

31. Sorry but I don't agree with your reasoning...

Few people seem to want to acknowledge the huge pile of debt added during the Bush Administration due to Pentagon and black budget spending. Until we can at least acknowledge how we got here, there may be no hope.

[bvar22]

32. Aside from all that,

...are you enjoying the Kabuki Theater?
The Choreography is SUPERB,
and The Timing has been PERFECT!

No doubt, they have been working on this script for a while,
and the expertise is evident.
For instance,
that bit last week about "Seniors may get NO check at all"
was absolutely BRILLIANT.
Now they will be so scared that they will be grateful for only a 15% cut!!!

BRAVISSIMO!

****Spoiler Alert*******

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I've seen this show before,
and it doesn't end well for the Working Class, the Retired, and the Poor.

[tex-wyo-dem]

34. This is yet another example if Disaster Capitalism...

A crisis manufactured to make people think that extraordinary measures, "shared sacrifice" & austerity are necessary while the oligarchy plunders.

[spanone]

37. and the media plays along......

[hfojvt]

40. at least twice during the Bush administration it was not routine

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/149

But I don't see where it was passed with strings attached.

[Raine]

41. Yup they are gaming us, it's all a scam nt

[abelenkpe]

42. K & R nt

[blkmusclmachine]

43. Phoney as a $3 bill.

If the DC D's & R's were dealing in good faith with us, they couldn't drown the government in a bathtub. Shock Doctrine in action. Since 9/11.

[mmonk]

44. Which makes it worse and more intolerable.

There is no honor or decency in Washington.

[indurancevile]

46. knr. "... is in on the con." looks like a majority, eh?

[rasputin1952]

47. The most obvious thing is that the R's favored massive debt when

it benefited them; they gave us wars, tax cuts and the like, refusing to find ways to fund such things, (ie increased revenue). They looked at people like Grover Norquist as saviors and now, when they can use debt against PO, they find great evil.

Several years back, one deficit crazed R was asked about the rising debt and massive upsurge of cash to the top 2% and his answer was quite telling..."why should I care, I'll be dead when it comes due." Best thing I can say for people like that..."good, hope you die in prison after a very long life"

[KharmaTrain]

52. Tunes Will Sing Different...

...when interest rates rise and what little credit that remains all but dries up. The "debt ceiling" should not be an issue as there shouldn't be a debate this country needs to pay its debts. The ceiling should rise, just like in many other countries, automatically but has now become a political football.

There is a spending problem...its been caused by two wars for profit along with its associated corporate welfare programs that have sucked billions of our taxpayer dollars with nothing to show. There's other corporate welfare that far outspends any social welfare program that are there to benefit political benefactors and are never anywhere near the table when cuts are discussed. Add to that the boooosh tax giveaway that destroyed revenues not only on the federal level but on the state and local level as well. It's not the money put away by individuals through SSI or Medicare or Medicaid that created this mess, it was 8 years of fleecing the treasury by the boooosh regime who left this administration the bills. But the talking points are set...there's no middle ground. Sadly, I see entitlements being a victim of cuts while the corporate welfare train chugs along...

[Waiting For Everyman]

53. It's a phoney reason for banks to raise all interest rates.

They want higher rates, how else to get them? The cuts are bonuses to those doing the dirty work.

[spanone]

54. debt ceiling was raised EIGHTEEN times during reagan administration

EIGHTEEN FUCKING TIMES

[Bluenorthwest]

55. We have reckless leadership devoted to serving the nuts in

Congress over and above the Constitution and the people.

[Mosaic]

56. How many times have I heard Obama say "entitlements"

Class warfare is going on strong from the top. The USA is fading into history fast, it must be planned that way.

[russspeakeasy]

57. If you give me a couple of million, I will build a slaughter house

in your town and create a job. ..that makes me a millionaire job creator.

[certainot]

58. the reason the republicans got so far in this con job is the left ignores RW talk radio

it was the same with health care. it is the reason there are so many irrational and downright fucking crazy republican reps in washington.

1000 radio stations allow con artists and the blowhards led by limbaugh, who read their material, to create their own reality with coordinated repetition that is UNCHALLENGED.

i thought the relatively free and democratic internet was going to give us progress. instead, primitive talk radio kicks it's ass. we've been going backwards the last 20 years because the left continues to give the con artists a free speech free ride.

[DirkGently]

59. Yep. Even engaging in this "debate" gives credit it doesn't deserve. "Debt" d/n crash the economy.

[obxhead]

60. They need the credit rating adjusted by Moody's.

The minute our credit rating is lowered a bill raising the ceiling will be passed. Then all the politicians can cash in their millions and move on to their next scam.

[jwirr]

62. Yes, but will the Social Security checks be out in time? If not they

will have managed to send millions into a full blown panic mode. Maybe even myself and especially my landlord who will loose this house if the rent is not paid on time.

[Enthusiast]

63. "transparently phony con job"

Yes, it is.

[disillusioned73]

64. K&R.. needs to be said again...

"Any politician urging "concessions" on things like Social Security or Medicare in the face of this transparently phony con job is in on the con." - Marr

[blackspade]

65. K&R!

[AlinPA]

67. The teabaggers who control the House want the default and they are crazy enough to vote for it.