Any "deal" besides a clean, unadorned debt ceiling raise will be a BAD deal for SS & MC

[Faryn Balyncd]

Any concessions the Republicans make on taxes will SET NO PRECEDENTS, and will last only as long as a Democrat is in the White House (if that long). In no way will any tax raises be permanent.

To the contrary, any cuts to Social Security and Medicare, whether as a direct part of the "deal", or politically distanced by means of a "binding commission", will be precedent-shattering betrayal of the social compact which was gained only with decades of sweat and blood, losses that will be regained, if ever, only against similar odds.

Whether these undeserved cuts to SS & MC take the form of further rigging of(already rigged) CPI/COLA calculations, or whether they take the form of means testing of Medicare (which will be presented as applying to the plutocrats, but will end up hitting the middle class and skilled workers), or whether it takes the form of a binding Catfood II Commission which will bequest political plausible deniability to politicians, is immaterial. . . . . . the material issue is that they will (unlike any Republican "concessions" on taxes) be precedent-setting, permanent turnarounds in policy. And they will be changes that will erode the broad, decades long working and middle class support.





It is this broad, near-unanimous support spanning class divisions that has insured the survival and success of Social Security and Medicare.

The Republicans know that only by getting Democrats to do the dirty deeds that they themselves could NEVER have gotten away with (the sabotaging of Social Security and Medicare, and doing it in such a way as to undermine the factors that have given these programs universal support across class lines, can they lay the seeds for the eventual destruction of these programs which are basic to the American social compact.




So when Tim Geithner says there will definitely be a "deal" before August 2, is that reason for solace?















:kick:

[jaxx]

1. Ah yes, it's not good enough.

Some things never change.

[TheKentuckian]

8. So, what deal would you see as unacceptable?

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TBF]

21. Jaxx, I would personally like to see you deliver your news of Medicare cuts to every senior citizen

in the country. Your attitude towards your fellow citizens makes me ill.

[jaxx]

23. There is no news. Nothing is settled.

Which is why it's so weird to see people act like it's a done deal. It isn't.

[TBF]

32. When we hear these rumblings from behind the scenes,

do not expect us to be quiet. If we are, and the deal comes out with those cuts, y'all will say "but no one said anything". Well, we're saying it now. I personally feel that anyone, either side of the aisle, who proposes cuts to the benefits of our most vulnerable should not only lose their own pensions but also their jobs. Every single one, including POTUS.

[TBF]

39. Nothing settled, huh? Not a big deal? Huh. nt

[sabrina 1]

27. This IS change. It is a Democratic administration, NOT

a Republican administration willing to give Republicans their long-held dream of cutting the pittance Seniors and the disabled which as it is barely keeps them alive.

If this happens, it will be a betrayal of the very foundations of the Democratic Party's own principles and it will not be forgiven or forgotten. It will change this party forever.

[neoralme]

30. It will end the Party, rather quickly, I imagine.

[DearAbby]

2. No Deal

The President has great leverage today. GOP blinked, clean bill. They know they will increase the debt. There was really no choice, can't shoot the hostage.

[BlueCheese]

25. Who's holding the hostage now?

Obama is on record as saying that he prefers a huge deficit-reduction deal over a simple clean bill.

[thereismore]

3. Yes, agreed. Just raise the damn ceiling. nt

[closeupready]

4. K&R - they are going to try to cut both programs in some way.

:mad:

[xchrom]

5. Recommend

[myrna minx]

6. K&R n/t

[Dappleganger]

7. We've been sold down the river...

by those who failed to keep their promises.

And I can promise them this: I won't forget their names on voting day.

[bahrbearian]

9. +1

[bahrbearian]

10. K&R

[Horse with no Name]

28. and their little paid internet minions are all over the internets

trying to do damage control...to convince US we are overreacting and when he slashes...oops I mean cuts...the programs, they'll be right here to tell us that obama saved the empire!

[bullwinkle428]

11. K&R to fend off any pending sleazy backroom deals.

[jtown1123]

12. K&R. If Dems allow Repukes to cut SS and Medicare, we have no one to blame but ourselves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPeEejtoT_o&feature=youtu.be

[kenny blankenship]

13. Let Him Make His Mark, Dammit!

He gets to be "transformational" too, or I'll start calling people names.

[neverforget]

14. You got that right. Permanent changes to social programs is in the works.

Tax policy, not so much.

[somone]

15. Indeed

[Marrah_G]

16. Any deal the screws with SS and Medicare is WRONG

I don't care if they use propaganda like " strengthening" remember the "clean air act"?

No more money, no more time, until they start behaving like liberals and democrats.

[slipslidingaway]

17. knr n/t

[WinkyDink]

18. What distresses me MOST is not the proposals or rumors; no. It's that both sides are wittingly

engaging in deliberate chicanery.

Obama KNOWS the truth about SS---its history; its purposes; its current financial status; and its irrelevance to the debt---yet not ONLY keeps SS on the table, but ALSO INEXCUSABLY uses its timely delivery as a THREAT.

Using New 21st Math to recalculate the CPI/inflation is so transparent as to be risible.

Undoing the New Deal cannot stand.

[chill_wind]

19. We'll bargain it away now and "We'll fix it later!"

K & R. K & R.

[grahamhgreen]

26. Just like the HCR fix that vaporized after passage.

[Bluebear]

20. kr

[OwnedByFerrets]

22. K and R

[Karmadillo]

24. K&R

nt

[senseandsensibility]

29. K and R

agreed.

[slipslidingaway]

31. kick nt

[horseshoecrab]

34. K&R -- here's what I think about the deal...

The "deal" here ought to be telling the hostage takers that the game is over and that the debt ceiling will be raised by Executive Order, if necessary.

I believe that the President can raise the debt ceiling on his own, because these debts are the result of spending that was previously authorized by our elected Reps and Senators in Congress. This is money spent which we now owe.

Also, I see that Bill Clinton is saying that the 14th amendment solution ("the debt of the United States shall not be questioned") would work for him. That'd work for me too. These tea freaks ought to read the Constitution before they start in with their idiocy.

If we are EVER to ***REFUSE TO DEAL WITH TERRORISTS,*** now is the time! Meantime... I am going to write to my two Senators, and my Representative in Congress and let them know that in spite of their mostly stellar performances over the years (well... for 2 out of the 3 anyway) that I'll not vote for anyone who votes to affect SS and Medicare in any negative way. No cuts to either SS or Medicare.

Having people with higher incomes begin to pay into the SS fund seems like a good idea to me, actually. There should be a way to raise the income limit for paying in to SS while protecting the rest of us from raises in SS contributions, and to write that protection into the rules change for contributions to Social Security.


horseshoecrab

[horseshoecrab]

35. kick!

:kick:

[ProSense]

36. Don't agree. Republicans are

in a corner, they either blow up the economy or agree to a deal.

They know that taxes are set to go up automatically at the end of 2012, which is after the election.

Republicans knows that submitting to simply raising the debt ceiling and punting on the rest allow the GOP to escape the revenue-raising crunch so they can live to fight for spending cuts another day.

The notion that simply raising the debt ceiling will avert spending cuts is ludicrous. Spending cuts are going to happen, under Obama and the President after him.

President Obama is insisting on closing the loopholes, which is the GOP's biggest fear. Democrats have been trying unsuccessfully to do that for years. There may never be a better opportunity.

Republicans have no bargaining chip except the debt ceiling, which they now realize they no longer have (thanks to Mitch McConnell).

[Faryn Balyncd]

38. Slashing SS (the most fiscally responsible federal program in history) to make up for general fund..

....deficits (caused huge military outlays, years of Republican "deficits don't matter" irresponsibility, economic stimulus spending under the previous and present administration, despite historically low tax rates on the very wealthy - - - is neither the appropriate response, nor is it fair to those who have funded the $2.2 trillion surplus in Social Security with decades of contributions.

The only fair approach is for general fund expenses (the largest of which is defense) to be funded by general fund revenues (primarily income taxes), not by continued raiding of the payroll tax-funded SS Trust Fund.

Thanks for your comment.




:hi:

[TBF]

40. If republicans are backed into a corner why is POTUS giving away the farm AGAIN.

Does he never learn? Man, he did not take any litigation courses in law school did he.

:puke:

[Jakes Progress]

37. The president says he won't do that. We must cut trillions.