"Lennon was a closet Republican: Assistant"

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http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/28/lennon-was-a-closet-republican-assistant

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John Lennon was a closet Republican, who felt a little embarrassed by his former radicalism, at the time of his death - according to the tragic Beatles star's last personal assistant.

Fred Seaman worked alongside the music legend from 1979 to Lennon's death at the end of 1980 and he reveals the star was a Ronald Reagan fan who enjoyed arguing with left-wing radicals who reminded him of his former self.

In new documentary Beatles Stories, Seaman tells filmmaker Seth Swirsky Lennon wasn't the peace-loving militant fans thought he was while he was his assistant.

He says, "John, basically, made it very clear that if he were an American he would vote for Reagan because he was really sour on (Democrat) Jimmy Carter.

------------------------------

I'm calling shenanigans on this bullshit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Oh bullshit.

But amusing. LOL

[girl gone mad]

103. But he knew John from 1979 all the way to 1980.

BFFAFMs.

Best friends for a few months.

[Pharaoh]

2. Bullshit

this is bull...........

consider the source

http://www.wenn.com/

it's a tabloid. Wanting to get attention.

[The Magistrate]

3. As the Song says, Sir, Money Changes Everything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aK-UjR3Oj4

[rug]

46. We're playing those mind games together, pushing barriers, planting seeds,

playing the mind guerilla

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dHUfy_YBps

[Bragi]

64. Yep. Facts are irrlevant. A new meme is born /nt

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Not John's song of course. He wrote "Can't buy me love"

I don't care too much for money, money can't buy me love. At least quote his own words. Sir.

[The Magistrate]

131. Always Liked Ms. Lauper Much More Than Mr. Lennon, Sir

More of a Stones fellow, myself....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YRdxHHFKvQ&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C39kQoprfP0&feature=related

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Here is another lyric actually by John Lennon, Sir

I've had enough of reading things
By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth

No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of Tricky Dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope

[Lint Head]

4. Here they go rewriting history again. This is what fascist propagandists do.

[Bragi]

65. Quite so

A new right-wing meme has been born, and like most such memes, it is impervious to debunking, and will be there from now on.

In fact, the more it is debunked, the more it will be believed by those who want to believe it.

[leveymg]

5. And, Reagan was secretly the Fifth Beatle . . .

"I buried Ronnie"
:crazy: :rofl: :spray: :hurts: :wow: :nuke:

[Politicalboi]

27. "Turn me on dead man"

I thought Ronnies hair was kinda looking messy for a time, I never knew. Ronnie had those "sneaky" haircuts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. To put things in context... many liberals

were up to here with Jimmy Carter and his shenanigans... my personal theory... it was the first very successful modern manipulation of the population by a less powerful right wing leaning media.

A lot of the we have had it, was truly the media.

[karynnj]

30. Many voted for Anderson

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. But enough voted for reagan

and the media was starting to lean right back then. Not as much as today mind you.

Also reagan played the victim card as in see, you bust your chops but them welfare queens...

[TicketyBoo]

127. Long time ago,

but I think I did.

[karynnj]

136. I came VERY close to doing so

I liked him best of the three - and have an aunt and uncle who lived in his district and who knew him very well. So, in addition to agreeing with many things he said - I had reason to think he was a good person. (Something that makes a "good" candidate as far as issues and ability go better in my estimation - though it really can't compensate for someone I completely disagreed with on the issues.)

[FarLeftFist]

7. Pure BS

If he really WAS a republican then we need more republicans like him, not these neanderthals the GOP has today. Show me one republican who shares Lennon ideology, just one.

[KittyWampus]

8. I could actually imagine the conversation went from dissatisfaction with Carter to closet Republican

in a ploy to make ones book sell.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

9. I always go the feeling that John Lennon was a very emotionally troubled man

He was a horrible father to his first child, was not a good husband to his first wife, and was a changeling, changing his opinion from second to second. There's no doubt he had some musical talent, but he was not the sort of person that I'd call settled and grounded. He was disturbed.

[daleo]

12. Same with Shakespeare.

He left his family back in Stratford. His plays are full of contradictions. He also had "some talent".

What can you do?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

41. Not a thing. People are as they are. Some people are born toxic. Lennon was one.

But he sure was creative.

[patrice]

54. He as a hippie "ron paul", nice guy, but limited. nt

[CreekDog]

74. John was "born toxic"?

what kind of person judges another by saying there was something wrong with their birth?

[RainDog]

109. what unmitigated bullshit from you

sort of like this creep who is lying to make a buck.

it's great to know you were so familiar with this person you can provide a dx from beyond the grave. you and Frist should start a road show. You could remotely heal people - those, of course, who were not "born toxic" and, I assume, beyond help in your view.

this thread is interesting to read - for the amount of bullshit spouted.

[Taverner]

125. Don't believe the Goldman book

Pretty much everyone who ever knew John said that book was crap.

On top of that, Goldman didn't interview anyone who was close to John, but hangers-on, people he met once and people who heard "from a friend of a friend"

He had anger issues, but shit, who doesn't?

He had mommy issues, but shit, who doesn't?

He had daddy issues, but again, shit, who doesn't?

[Bragi]

45. Good one!

"Some musical talent" indeed!

[Bluenorthwest]

49. A modicam, a hint of talent...

nt

[Bragi]

53. And Yoko and Ringo were the keys to his musical success /nt

[calimary]

100. I remember when Edwin Newman said that, in a commentary on NBC Radio, wondering

why all the press coverage of John Lennon's assassination, during that awful week. I sat there at my desk (working AT NBC News at the time) and stared at my little radio monitor in utter disbelief when he said "granted, Lennon had SOME talent." WTF????? I lost all respect for Edwin Newman from that day forward. I just couldn't ever look at him the same way after that. And at one time he had been one of my heroes - back in the day when he was one of the "Big Four" NBC News correspondents, along with Sander Vanocur, Frank McGee, and John Chancellor.

John Lennon was a giant on the cultural landscape - of this country, and in many respects, the world. He exerted influence over MANY generations and was a key mover, shaker, and taste-maker for decades. His partnership with Paul McCartney was historic and earth-shaking in the history of music, and his work led a seismic shift in the center of gravity in pop culture. I felt the same way when John Lennon was killed as I did when Picasso died. It was a loss-of-the-century tragedy, but all the moreso in John's case, because it was way too soon. At least Pablo Picasso had lived a long, full life.

And honey, just because you're disillusioned with Jimmy Carter DOESN'T mean that makes you a closet republi-CON. I was, too, back then, but it sure as hell didn't drive me into reagan's arms.

"...some talent." INDEED.


:puke:

[patrice]

20. That was always my take on him. Remember, to some people IDEALS are ideals because

, despite our passion for them, we are incapable of living them. And "Let it Be" covers a multitude of whatevers.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

38. Exactly! nt

[CreekDog]

134. how many millions bought your record about stopping an unjust war?

but do lecture us all, please...

[undeterred]

22. He treated women like crap in the sixties

according to his own reports.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

40. I believe it. He doesn't strike me as a particularly empathetic, or

kind human. Very creative, very odd, very unique, but changing his mood every two seconds.

[Ichingcarpenter]

72. Of course you wouldn't 'Woman Is the Nigger of the World

He wrote that too... you don't know your facts.

[rainy]

135. for what its worth I found this at wikipedia:

Meaning

The phrase was originally coined by Yoko Ono during a magazine interview in 1969. Lennon was proud that it was the first women's rights song before "I Am Woman".<1> The song describes women's subservience to men and male chauvinism across all cultures. It was banned from radio and BBC airplay because of the word 'nigger'. Many prominent black people, including comedian Dick Gregory, spoke out in defense of the song. Another supporter, Congressman Ron Dellums, stated, "If you define 'nigger' as someone whose lifestyle is defined by others, whose opportunities are defined by others, whose role in society is defined by others, the good news is that you don't have to be black to be a nigger in this society. Most of the people in America are niggers."<2>
In a 1972 interview on The Dick Cavett Show, John Lennon stated that Irish revolutionary James Connolly was an inspiration for the song. Lennon quoted Connolly's 'the female is the slave of the slave' in explaining the pro-feminist inspiration behind the song.<3>

[deutsey]

114. You really should read up on Lennon (especially his interviews and not tabloid tripe)

You apparently know a very small fraction of what made this complex and complicated man who he was.

[CreekDog]

133. but that would interfere with the Fristian/Joyce-Brothers-style diagnoses she's offering

for what they're worth. :eyes:

[Politicalboi]

28. And there was "The Lost Weekend"

Where he stayed away from Yoko for a year and a half.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lennon#1973.E2.80.9375:_The_Lost_Weekend

[Sarah Ibarruri]

37. He was moody, depressive, and constantly a changeling about his feelings and

emotions. And yes, he sure did have a thing for Asian folks.

[Bluenorthwest]

50. He and Yoko were married for decades...

I do not call anyone's marriage a 'thing for Asian folks'. Wow, just wow.

[Melinda]

66. " And yes, he sure did have a thing for Asian folks". Just. Fucking. Wow.

So how do "Asian folks" measure against them 'Darkie peoples' or 'The Gays' in your mind?

JHK on a crutch, egocentric much? :eyes:

[CreekDog]

75. wow, and to think you are making him sound pathological

while making his marriage to a Japanese artist sound warped.

maybe you think he should marry his own kind.

you are revealing more about yourself than him.

[Cetacea]

93. We have a genuine, certifiable Lennon hater here.

Cheers

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mopinko]

59. bipolar? drug addiction is common as is remarkable talent.

touched by fire they say.

[Ichingcarpenter]

71. He' still my hero.... you are not old enough to know

the times back then.

Let alone his upbringing.

There was a recent BBC movie on his early years
when he formed his skittle band... I suggest you watch it
and see where he came from.

[GReedDiamond]

142. Skiffle band...

...I know that's what you meant.

The "T" key is just above and to the right of the "F" key, easy to hit by mistake.

I just don't want the young'uns googling "john lennon skittle band," I'm somewhat afraid of what they might end up with, information-wise.

[CreekDog]

91. and you think that there's something wrong with him liking an asian woman

:eyes:

[Cetacea]

92. "Some" talent. Good one. lol

I'll bet you are a musicologist.

[marmar]

10. Whatever......Some people will do anything to make a buck.

nt

[GReedDiamond]

11. I would like to know if Yoko would...

...verify this seemingly unlikely claim.

She ought to know if it's true or not.

[johnnie]

13. Fred Seaman must be running out of money again

His track record is not very good.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. Man, you had to know THIS was going to piss some people off...

Who gives a fuck what John Lennon was or wasn't. He's fucking dead.

[suffragette]

15. Quite the background as a thief this guy has

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/sep/28/arts.artsnews
Lennon PA asks forgiveness for thefts


A former personal assistant to John Lennon who was accused of stealing hundreds of the late Beatle's personal photographs and letters, issued an apology to his widow, Yoko Ono, in a Manhattan courtroom yesterday.

"I offer no excuses for my conduct, and ask only that you can find it in your heart to forgive me," Frederick Seaman, 49, said in a statement issued as part of a settlement in a case which offered an unprecedented glimpse into Lennon's domestic habits, his falling-out with Paul McCartney, and the insomnia and fear of stalkers which dominated the last months of his life.

"I now realise how much pain and embarrassment I have caused," said Mr Seaman, admitting that he had violated a confidentiality agreement. He agreed to return and surrender the rights to 374 photographs he took of the family as part of his job, to refund $75,000 (£50,000) from selling Lennon's letters, and to pay undisclosed damages.

~~~

A fourth, about his boots, suggested he already distrusted Mr Seaman: "Have you sold them? or rented perhaps."

[Zorra]

16. Uh-huh. And Jim Morrison was Chairman of the John Birch Society. nt

[cascadiance]

122. And Bob Marley was pals with Clarence Thomas on his trips to Jamaica too!

[Lucky Luciano]

17. Rubbish!!! nt

[davepc]

18. Well he did like to beat women...

but people like their idols

[johnnie]

25. You think he LIKED to beat women?

Strange comment.

[LiberalAndProud]

19. You wouldn't be able to tell that from his final interview.

He was all about baking bread at that time of his life, if I remember correctly.

[Greybnk48]

21. Yoko knows. This is bullshit by the way. John would have

loved Carter for his anti-war, pacifistic POV. I don't even have to hear from Yoko to know that.

[cascadiance]

126. You remember that Carter ran as a "born again" in his first campaign...

... for president, which is perhaps the Carter that Lennon knew instead of the one that has since been a lot more statesmanlike and an advocate for peace, etc. in his older age. He also had in effect started the American involvement in the Soviet/Afghanistan war then too, even if it was just providing weapons to the Bin Laden and the Muhajadeen.

That aspect turned me off too which is why I campaigned for Jerry Brown in the primaries, and was part of the big "undecided" caucus in Iowa in the primaries. It would be interesting to press this guy to see if he would commit to saying whether or not Lennon supported Ted Kennedy then too or not in his distaste for Carter.

I even voted for John Anderson in the subsequent election, which was the last time that I even came close to voting for a Republican (since he was technically an independent)...

[no_hypocrisy]

23. Why would Lennon be a republican? Nixon was trying to deport him.

And we all know that Nixon was a liberal compared to Reagan . . . .

[karynnj]

32. Nixon got his own reference in a Lennon song

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBsQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdlzrNKN3rZI&rct=j&q=gimme%20some%20truth%20videos&ei=F5gKTq25D82s0AHb_8B6&usg=AFQjCNHENt8kUGSIYyp9-SVaX_iDoYKNdw&cad=rja

In Gimmee some truth. (Kennedy got a mention in a song too (God) - in the long list of things - including Elvis and the Beatles that he did not believe in.)

[H2O Man]

24. Fred is a piece of shit.

A lying, worthless thief.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. What H2OMan said is true

It is also documented and admitted by Fred. He stole from John and Yoko. This is fact.

[H2O Man]

82. Yep.

My (now "ex") sister-in-law is close friends with Yoko. I am convinced that Yoko is the best source of information on John. It's as simple as that.

[Bluenorthwest]

102. I agree, and I am also a public lover of Yoko Ono's work

with John and without John. Yoko is a brilliant artist. Her work had huge influence on me, and her name hangs on my wall like a photo.

[karynnj]

139. My 26 year old daughter likes Yoko's works better than John's - which to me is hard to believe

[fishwax]

26. lol -- yeah, shenanigans

[karynnj]

29. He was the man Yoko sued because he took John;s diary

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/319205.stm

While I think that Lennon lost patience with the Jerry Rubin/Abbe Hoffman types even in the 1970s, he supported the anti-war effort until the war ended. It is also very hard to know anything of 1975-1980 because Lennon's life was very private then.

Lennon died in December 1980, before Reagan took office. If Seaman is telling the truth and is accurate, he would be going based only on the campaign. Many things Reagan actually did might have been missed by Lennon. However, I really can not see Lennon switching from the ideas of his Some Time in NYC alblum to being a Reaganite. Not to mention, Yoko has, I think supported Democrats - though I am not sure. (I know Paul McCartney did, though what Paul did says nothing of John.)

[Bluenorthwest]

55. He was the man who lost that lawsuit, and had to return items

and repay $75,000 for personal letters of Lennon's that he had sold. This man admitted all of this and paid damages in excess of the losses. A thief.
So it is not just 'Yoko sued him' it is that he was found to be in the wrong, guilty, and he fessed up and paid up.

[karynnj]

73. Correct - I was intending to say that he was not a reliable source,

but you are correct that I far understated this.

[Bluenorthwest]

101. I understood, just wanted to be really clear who this guy is

and the public information available on how he has treated the Lennons in the past.

[Merlot]

31. Power to the people, right on!

Hard to believe that the man who wrote that was a repub.

[MouseFitzgerald]

33. Right

and she happens to be the only person aware of this massive political transformation? This is a disgusting post-death smear campaign.

[Iggo]

35. How much for your book, Fred?

Yeah.

[dflprincess]

36. This can't be true. He lived on the Upper West Side

I've heard there are no Republicans there.

[madokie]

39. Bullfuckingshit

[LeftinOH]

42. Impossible: He wasn't a US citizen. Period. The end.

[aikoaiko]

43. I think this is unlikely, but a lot of yuppies flipped to Reagan at that time.

[Lindsey]

44. OMG -How ridiculous. Hey guys - Remember when Nixon, who,

BTW was a Republican, did everything he could to have John deported?????????????????

[aikoaiko]

85. I think its hard to predict when a rich lefty will flip.

[Bragi]

47. Full points to the right wing machine for this new meme

The truth no longer matters. The right wing has, with this story, bogus or not, defiled a hero of the left.

Until the end of time, there will now be doubt, and likely vitriolic debate, about Lennon's political leanings.

I can only say: Well done, right-wing liars and ideologues, and the big money people who support them. This is yet another victory in your unrelenting and withering culture war.

[fascisthunter]

56. Hahaha... idiot liars

don't celebrate too much, this too is another lie. Must be frustrating to always have to lie about the left... we know how much pop culture puts a sting up your asses. You'll NEVER win the culture war you losers.

[Bragi]

60. "You'll NEVER win the culture war you losers."

How I wish it was so, but it isn't. The right wing has been slowly winning the culture war for decades.

Neutralizing the Lennon legacy through confusion and lies will now work just fine for them. No amount of debunking will now remove doubt about Lennon from those who want to believe it, or from "neutral" media, who will from now on feel obliged to point out that his leftist politics are "disputed".

That's how the right is winning the culture wars. Their supporters don't need facts, noise will do, and they have now successfully created noise around Lennon's true political leanings. That's a win for them, a small win, but a win just the same.

(I'm starting to think that the left needs a 12-step program that begins with admitting we have a problem, and that the other guys are winning, not losing.)

[Bluenorthwest]

120. In the week in which NY made marriage equality the law

you can really claim the right wing is winning the 'culture wars'? Hilarious. Yeah, all that right wing music outselling GaGa, all those right wing movies like Atlas Shrugged becoming huge hits, the evidence is everywhere!
They are losing the 'culture wars' quickly and totally, to the point where most of their 'issues' are not even issues anymore.
This 'created noise' is just some crappy book that is coming out, like a cover of News of the World. Fish wrap, forgotten in a week. Laughed at then forgotten. Meanwhile Lennon's work will continue to sell more copies each week decades after his death than this creep's book will sell in total.

[n2doc]

57. Another "He was rich, so he must have seen the error of his ways and joined the Republicans" bull

article. Hell, even McCartney, who was always more concerned about money, never went there, to my knowledge.

[Bake]

58. All we are saying ... is give peace a chance

Somehow I can't imagine too many Rethugs singing that.

Or our Dems in Washington, for that matter.

Bake

[graywarrior]

61. I think Yoko would have a different story for sure

[Bragi]

62. Doesn't matter. The meme is now established /nt

[graywarrior]

67. No wonder half the country has Crohn's or some sort

of explosive diarrhea malady. I can't take this stuff anymore.

[Bragi]

77. It ain't easy, is it?

I'm just trying my best these days to intellectually, psychologically and emotionally deal with something I've denied my whole life: that in contemporary political discourse, facts don't actually matter much, neither does logic or reason; what matters is which tribe a person identifies with.

Me, I've always been and remain a member of the left-wing tribe, and as such, I'm really tired of losing.

Unfortunately, I no longer have any confidence that I have a clue how my tribe can win with everything -- the political system, the economic system, religion, schools, the media -- under the control of the other side.

Can you help me out here?

[graywarrior]

132. Wish I could help

I feel totally lost.

[Bucky]

63. By the author of "Martin Luther King: the Ayn Rand years"

[Ichingcarpenter]

70. LOL... n/t

[geardaddy]

80. Win.

[Cetacea]

94. LOL. n/t

[CleanGreenFuture]

68. There is one person who could clear this up quick...

Yoko.

[Bragi]

78. I wish it were so

The meme of Lennon being a republican is now out there, in the wild, it will never go away, no matter what the facts may be. No amount of debunking will kill it.

We need to remember we live in a political universe in which operatives for a suspected draft-dodger were able to successfully create doubt about the bravery of a bona fide war hero.

[Bluenorthwest]

104. Sorry, that is not the way it works.

This will not stand at all. Artists are not politicians, and we take care of our own. Watch. You do not swiftboat the likes of John Lennon. Some politicians are chumps, but artists are not chumps.

[Bragi]

112. Please be right

I just don't think you are.

Remember: WMDs were found in Iraq, Saddam was behind 9/11, and other right wing lies which a huge number of people continue to believe, despite the facts.

A year from now, I fear that polls will show that 49 per cent of Americans believe Lennon was a republican.

[Bluenorthwest]

117. First, most people do not belive that WMD were found,.

Second, the 'other right wing lies' such as Iraq war lies were pushed by an entire government, not some well established grifter. Those lies had huge profitability, reasons to be told, they lacked thousands of personal witnesses to the life of the man, not to mention the body of his work and interviews with him which stand as clear spoken testimony of what he believed and stood for.
How are those so called 'birther' books and authors doing right now? Suddenly quiet, aren't they? Yep.

[RoryK]

69. John Lennon?

;rofl;

[Darth_Kitten]

76. Help!

come to the site...it's overrun by right-wingers, some assistance is needed. :)

[Bragi]

79. Darth, it's a waste of time, maybe even counter-productive

The Sun chain is Canada's most right-wing news outfit. The people who comment there want to believe that Lennon was a republican. No amount of debate will change their beliefs in the new meme about Lennon. It may just strengthen the meme.

This is how the right wing is winning the "culture" war in the U.S, and is now doing so in Canada.

[Darth_Kitten]

81. I know all about the Sun chain.

I believe stupidity needs to be challenged.

[Bragi]

84. Fair enough

I just don't think anyone who reads the Sun or its online comments is likely going to change their views based on facts or logic.

They WANT Lennon to be reconstructed as a republican, and from now on, for them, with their new meme, he will be.

Our side WANT Lennon to remain a hero for progressives, and for us, he always will be.

But facts don't matter in the least. Yoko Ono could release a statement with a tape recording of Lennon condemning the GOP, and it won't matter.

The meme of Lennon being a republican is now in the wild, and will never disappear.

That's the way this whole political discourse thing now works. It's how a war hero candidate can be made into a coward to get votes for a draft dodger pretending to be a warrior.

[Darth_Kitten]

90. No, they probably won't change their minds....

Most of them are quite delusional. Plus, they all seem to have victim-complexes, always imagining the big bad liberals out to get them. :evilgrin:

[Bluenorthwest]

105. John Lennon

I've had enough of reading things
By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth

No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of Tricky Dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope

[Bragi]

111. Duelling verse

Once established, false memes don't die
They live forever for those who prefer the lie

(Okay, I'm no poet!)

[Bluenorthwest]

119. Yeah, except that verse I posted is by John Lennon and it is one

of many direct references he made to Republican politicians in his work. Millions of people across the globe know that song, and many others as well as the lifetime actions of this artist you think can be tarnished by gossip.
Look. Showbiz is always full of gossip and slander. "Lennon said he's better than Jesus." They tried that when he was still a tyro. Did not work. Petty gossip mongers are no match for those well prepared and simply not impressed.
I also remember "Mick Jagger is a satanist" and "Alice Cooper kills chickens on stage" and "Rod Stewart had to get his stomach pumped from giving so many blow jobs at the Grammies" and it is all just a stream of gossipy nonsense that is expected in showbiz. John and Yoko, showbiz, not politics. Artists, not politicians. Whole different ballgame.

[peace frog]

83. Well isn't that conveeeeeeenient

considering the man isn't alive today to confirm or deny this, but I call BS as well.

[krispos42]

86. So once he got rich on the growth of liberalism...

...he bailed in favor of protecting his wealth? The rise of intellectualism and free thinking in the New Deal, post-WW2 America, combined with the extra spending power of the middle class and their children and the rise of mass media enabled the cult following of many rock groups of the era.


Might not have been... I don't know enough about Lennon to say either way. But the story is an old one.

[Ichingcarpenter]

88. No you don't know enough about Lennon but

you still have an opinion without facts.

[krispos42]

130. It wouldn't particularly suprise me, though

The entire country was suffering through the doldrums at that point, and Reagan appealed to a lot of people.

Ah, well, at least I admitted my opinion wasn't worth much :D

[JHB]

87. So?

Even if true, we'll never know if subsequent developments would have changed his mind.

The political landscape was a very different thing back in 1980. A Mississippi River's worth of water under that bridge. This year's river with the record flooding, at that.

[Ichingcarpenter]

89. "Even if true",.... Looks like you bought this neocon's writing

and now question Lennon's life

[Bragi]

95. Most people will buy the new meme, despite any facts /nt

[Bluenorthwest]

107. You seem to be working hard to promote that meme

which I find to be suspect. I utterly and totally disagree with you. They said that about MLK as well. Do 'most people' believe that? They said Darwin retracted evolution on his deathbed, do 'most people' buy that one?

[Bragi]

110. It's my point of the day

I could be wrong, but never suspect.

I'm not sure what you disagree with. The era of MLK was a long time ago, back when facts mattered.

Public information channels and political discourse were nowhere near as corrupted then as they are today.

[Bluenorthwest]

113. It is just a baseless opinion you have, your objective unknown

They have attempted to sully the image of MLK every year since he died, sport. And yet 'most people' still know him as a national hero with a holiday, no less. This meme that 'that was then' is just daft, the attempts to tarnish him as a Republican are ongoing. They do not take hold.
Previous Lennon trashers including this very one, have tried in the past to push slander for profit, and it did not work. Last time this guy did this shit, he got dragged into court and lost, he had to pay damages and issue a public apology.
You keep pushing what you want to be true. I do not agree with you at all. Not at all. Most people in this world call Michael Jackson the King of Pop in spite of all that was said about him. People are not idiots, they can hear and see the works of artists, and they know the content. You can not kill an artist with slander, no matter how much you want it to be true.

[Bragi]

129. You're wrong, I do have a basis for my views

The basis for my views can be found in recent literature on neuroscience and political discourse, which I am doing a lot of reading on these days.

Neuroscience is showing us more and more how our brains work, how we process "issue" information, form views, reach conclusions, etc.

This helps to explains why, when people are confronted with new "facts" that contradict their settled political opinions, they can so easily just reject the new facts, and continue to hold their unquestioned views.

However, more important than you being wrong about me having any basis for my views, I can't help but note that you tend toward suspicion, ridicule and insult, and have a confrontational way of discussing matters which I find unnecessary and unpleasant.

So, though I do think your your views on art, artists and politics might be worth exploring, I'll instead just move on, and hope that should we chat again, that you will do so with a bit more civility.

- B

[JHB]

96. What part of "Even if true," is not a qualifying statment?

Not being a time-traveling mind-reader, nor having any contact with Lennon personally at all, I can honestly say I have no idea what he may have said in private. The claim doesn't comport with what I know of Lennon, but the world has plenty of people who turned as they got older, so I'm in no position to judge the truth of the claim one way or the other.

My larger point is the pointlessness of the claim. Even if Lennon would have voted for Reagan in 1980, it doesn't mean he was on board with all the shit that down after Reagan took office. Even if one supposes he would (had he been elligible) have voted for Reagan, would he have continued that after the arms buildup, the contras, Lebanon, Grenada, Iran-Contra, and the whole raft of covert skulduggery and constitution-undermining? We'll never know, because he didn't live to experience that.

The entire claim is at most -- if it's true at all -- a puffed-up footnote, the political equivalent of allegations of a "deathbed repentance" by a lifelong atheist. A certain audience eats it up, but it's still bullshit.

[Taverner]

97. Funny. The GOP couldn't make the Goldman shit stick, so they turned the argument around

Made him one of them...

I remember when the Goldman book came out, Fundystan was whooping it up: "He was demon posessed!", "He was abusive and killed people!", "See who's bigger than God now!!"

[deutsey]

115. Yeah, and remember: JFK and MLK "would be Republicans today"

:eyes:

[Taverner]

124. So funny, because MLK was against the Vietnam war, very pro-union...

And at the end of his life was doing everything he could to empower poor pepole. Shit, if he were alive today he would be President of ACORN!

JFK, on the other hand, was pretty conservative, but who knows how that would have played out today?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

99. Yeah, yeah, and Charles Darwin rejected evolution, and Carl Sagan converted to Christianity...

...in their respective death beds. Ho hum. :eyes:

[LongTomH]

106. I hope the people who knew Lennon step up to call bullshit on this!

It may not change the minds of the Wingnutz; but, a lot of people may consider John's friends to be more credible!

[Bluenorthwest]

108. The person making this accusation has previously admitted to

stealing from the Lennons, and has been forced by the court to return items, pay damages for thefts and for crap he has said to the press. He is a serial exploiter of his short term employment by John and Yoko. This is well known.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[devilgrrl]

118. The Toronto Sun isn't fit for the bottom of a bird cage.

And this article is total bullshit.

[Ice Number Nine]

121. what do you expect from a guy who had to live his whole life with the name 'Seaman'?

poor bastard!

[Bluenorthwest]

123. Yoko played the Hollywood Bowl last weekend

she took a turn with Yellow Magic Orchestra. Enjoy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eyo_9Yq08w

[myrna minx]

128. Are you going to believe a liar or Yoko?

I think I'll stick with Yoko.

[RagAss]

137. Hee heee.hehehee... Seaman.

[upi402]

138. horse

shit

[RadiationTherapy]

140. Another loser, failure Republican.

Look at how many liberals he created! What an asshole!

HAAAAAAHaahahahahahahaha.

[Safetykitten]

141. Well, another on the list of things Carter fucked up.

[JCMach1]

143. There were a lot of disgruntled democrats... that's how we ended-up with RAYGUN in office