So let's say Obama refuses to budge on the debt ceiling, and we default.

[democrat_patriot]

1. The meme WILL be: "Democrats and Republicans could not reach an agreement."
2. The left will scream: "It was the Republicans!!"
3. Some will listen for 2-3 weeks.
4. The ensuing economic meltdown will be catastrophic.
5. By October: "The economy has failed with Obama and his liberal policies!"
6. 15% unemployment - all blamed on Obama. "Why hasn't Obama fixed this yet?"
7. The austerity measures will be unheard of. SS, Medicare all on the table. They will have their shock doctrine.
8. Republican House, Senate and Presidency.

Who still blames Bush for the economy? (Besides us?)

Obama will make a deal. The public has short memories, and the MSM is relentless.

If he wasn't going to make a deal, he'd hold a nightly address and lay out what will happen when the Republicans force us to default. He would be making sdaily speeches on the subject.

He isn't. He'll make the deal.

[Kittysafe]

1. Debt Ceiling

If corrupt corporations are too big to fail, I imagine the United Stated will find a way.

[KansDem]

2. True...

The USA..."Too Big To Fail"

It worked for the bankers and Wall Street, so why not the USA?

[ixion]

6. Because the Banksters and the Fed are the same group

the rest of the world will not buy into it.

[ixion]

4. "too big to fail " is a phallacy

there is NO system that cannot succumb to failure, including the US.

[spanone]

3. no, let's say republicans FAIL to vote on raising the debt ceiling

[Dawgs]

5. Huh? Are you saying that he should cave?

:shrug:

[democrat_patriot]

9. Not at all.

But I think he will. He has to, because the Republicans WILL default. The Republicans need an economic meltdown. How else will Romney get elected?

The Republicans destroyed the economy. And yet they are still very much a viable party. What do they have to fear?

If he stands strong, he does the right thing, but doesn not get re-elected. And the country will go through some serious pain (at least the bottom 95%).

[Warpy]

7. I think you drank pessimism instead of coffee

and I'm the world's biggest pessimist. You're missing a few things.

For instance, 2/3 of this country still blames Stupid for getting us into this mess. Over 80% want the wealthy to start to pony up more taxes since they're the ones who made the mess. Over 60% want the military budget cut. Over 70% want us out of Stupid's wars--NOW.

People are paying attention more than I've ever seen them pay attention. They know what's going on. Even if they're still yapping Republican boilerplate they heard on the radio because that's the only way they know how to talk about politics, they still answer poll questions very differently.

Face it, the Republicans are vastly overreaching right now, trying to force dogma nobody really believes in any more because it has failed so miserably. Because they're beholden to the Koch brothers and their fellow plutocrats, they can't back down. These miserable few years should just about finish them as a party anyone can take seriously.

A party that ignores the middle is doomed to failure, even though it won't be as immediate or as public as we would like. Both parties have forgotten just where that middle is.

They'd better learn.

[democrat_patriot]

11. I'd be optimistic if it wasn't just Bernie Sanders speaking up.

Maybe the Dems are waiting to see if Obama will cave - Waxman and his "tell us now if your going to cave" during the White House meeting...

I just don't hear a whole lot from our elected representatives.

I really, really want to be optimistic.

[sinkingfeeling]

8. I think the GOP will fold... their fat cat corporate friends will force them to vote to raise the

ceiling.

[Tatiana]

10. The Republicans will not allow us to default. Think about it.

Wall Street owns the Republican party. Their corporate masters would be hurt by the U.S. defaulting on its debt, as was explained on Countdown. They would never allow the Republicans to seriously vote against raising the debt ceiling.

[democrat_patriot]

12. That leaves a worse alternative. Obama caves for nothing.

I'm in bad way this morning. Where's my Xanax?

[msongs]

15. Obama caves for nothing. Repubs know that before negotiations begin lol nt

[Fuddnik]

13. Now, back to reality.

[Ganja Ninja]

14. Make a deal = Sell out like a coward.

He's already made a deal when they agreed to 2 trillion in cuts and he still has nothing in return. Anything more is a sell out.

The middle class in this country came into being because people fought and endured over decades. Sooner or later we have to stand up and say no more or we will lose it all. As far as I'm concerned it might as well be now. And if not now then forget about the next election. Obama is done if he doesn't stand up to these pricks.

[tularetom]

16. Of course he'll make a deal. Here's why:

1. He's a Democrat. and

2. He's Obama.

And when he does, and nothing really gets any better, the republicans and their toadies in the liberal media will blame the fucked up economy on that shitty deal Obama made to avoid default.

I've given up hoping he will stand for something. Now I'm just hoping he will consider his own political future.

[TomClash]

17. There won't be a default

Workers will be furloughed, SS checks may be withheld or slashed, parks will be closed but the Federal Government will continue to make T-bill, note and bond payments.

If I were President, I'd tell Treasury to stop paying Republican Members of Congress and their staffs.

[MadHound]

18. Once again putting party before principle I see,

The fact is, we can't afford to accept the deal that the Republicans are offering. We have absolutely got to take in more revenue, since currently tax revenue is at the lowest point in history. We simply need more revenue, period.

If the Dems cave, and we get a deal that is all spending cuts, then this economy is going to go deeper into the shitter, and people are going to be out in the streets, both because they are homeless and because they are on the point of revolution.

[damntexdem]

19. If Obama caves, ...

1. the economy will still be bad in November 2012, just not as horrible as if the debt ceiling had not been raised;
2. the rich will have gotten that much richer, so will pour even more money into the 2012 elections;
3. important social programs will have been cut or eliminated, so the left and many moderates won't bother to vote for Obama or other Dems;
4. the political results will be about as bad as those suggest, but the Dems will have brought it all on themselves; and
5. for me, bye bye Dem Party.