I was stopped at a PA State Police checkpoint today.

[Eddie Haskell]

It was 10:14 a.m. and I was getting off an interstate on an exit to nowhere. They were stopping everyone and asking for photo ID. I thought this kind of harassment was illegal. Does anyone know what I'm required to supply? Do I have to answer questions about my destination or what I'm planning to do?

[Historic NY]

1. Where I'm heading your way next week? ... Rt 84 west.

[Eddie Haskell]

5. I was going south on Rte. 83 in southern York County

I exited onto 214 west and was stopped within 100 yds. Maybe they were looking for someone.

[CrazyBob]

20. That happened to me more than once

I threw a fit about it (later). But ya know...upon further review...

Its just as legal as a sobriety checkpoint. And nowadays the police don't have to tell you what/who they are looking for. So you really have to cooperate or face stiff consequences.

I think we have lost this battle.

[grasswire]

2. call your local ACLU

They might have answers to your questions.

[Taverner]

3. Expect to see more and more of this

Is it legal?

It shouldn't be, but they've been doing this for years under the guise of "catching drunk drivers"

And when they use that as their excuse, no one on this board has a problem with surrendering their Constitutional Rights - to the point where if you point this out, you get shouted down for being in favor of drunk driving or something.

[Eddie Haskell]

8. DUI at 10:14 in the morning?

Seems like bad timing.

[Taverner]

13. I'm not saying the PA State Police were doing a Drunken Driving Checkpoint

Just that we've already surrendered our Constitutional rights so that we CAN have Drunken Driving Checkpoints

No one here should be surprised that they are just putting up checkpoints for the sake of putting up checkpoints

[Eddie Haskell]

22. Agreed.

That's exactly what I was thinking when they asked for my license.

[greytdemocrat]

50. Why expect to see more and more?

Someone sounds a tad paranoid.

[Taverner]

61. Would you say the same about our TSA Screening Policy?

[panader0]

4. I got stopped by the police years ago hitchhiking thru Texas

The cop asked "Where are you coming from and where are you going to?"
I said "I'm coming from the east and going to the west."
It almost got me arrested.
There are Border Patrol stops on the road north to Tucson. You can't go from So. Az. to Tucson without being stopped.

[ohheckyeah]

63. I've told this before

but can't resist telling it again. My husband was driving from Tubac,AZ north to Tucson and was driving my car that still had Virginia plates on it. He was stopped by Border Patrol and the agent said to my husband, "you're a long way from Virginia." To which my husband promptly replied, "so are you".

The agent looked totally baffled and waved us through.

[CoffeeCat]

68. LOL! Hilarious...

I don't know why that's so funny...but it just is. We're supposed to live
in such fear of the police, and be so formal with them, unless we want to
get tazed. That comment zing it right back at them--as if we're on equal
footing.

The scary thing is...you never know when a smartass comment will get you waved
on through, or whether or not you'll end up on youtube getting tazed!
Very funny tho. Thanks for the laugh. :)

[ohheckyeah]

92. You're welcome.

My husband is quick with the smartass comments. I wish I could remember some of his others as we were stopped day after day. What I would like to know is just how many people they thought I could put in the trunk of my little convertible.

[MattSh]

72. Got stopped once for DWD...

Driving while Democrat.

2004. Just got my brand spanking new Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker. Slapped it on the back of my car that evening, then while driving to work the next day, got stopped for the first time in 23 years. For driving over the speed limit. But I was driving in a whole line of cars going the same speed (around 50 in a 45). If I was driving any faster than the car ahead of me, at some point in time there would have been an accident. But one of these things were not like the other, and that was my car with the Democratic ticket stuck on the back.

This was in NJ, certainly not a place I would have expected this type of harassment, but it was in a town just north of Princeton, (Montgomery, NJ) so I guess advocating for a Democrat looked kind of suspicious. And if suspicions are enough, hey, it must be OK. At least according to some...

Since it was a magnetic sticker, I pulled it off that day, and within a year I jumped at a chance to move away. A long way away...

[CrispyQ]

87. I'm certain I got OUT of a ticket because of my anti-Bush bumper stickers.

I got pulled over for running a stop sign. It was a brand new stop sign & is partly why he didn't ticket me. At the end of our exchange, he said, "I like your stickers. Especially the coward one."

It read: "You can't spell COWARD without a W"


But I live in a progressive pocket. I've heard more stories like yours than mine.

[Amaril]

94. Same thing happened to my neighbor's son

and in Gainesville, FL -- one of the few pockets of blue in the sea of red which is Florida. He (the neighbor kid) clearly heard the cop mutter "fucking liberals" as he (the cop) was walking away with his license.

The kid & his mom filed a conduct complaint with the PD next day..........I don't think much of anything ever came from it.

[blueamy66]

93. My guy has a company car with Iowa plates.

He gets this all the time....as he drives to So Cal at least twice a month.

2 checkpoints now on the way from Yuma to San Diego....it's bullshit

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. Happens to black folks all the time

[elleng]

10. Right, Driving While Black, Walking While Black, Voting While Black.

OP stop was at a highway checkpoint, EVERYONE stopped.

[Liberal_in_LA]

17. In Los angeles, they do warrant stops in the black / brown neighborhoods. stopping all

cars, making them show ID. My white friend explained that he got to just put his ID up against the window and keep driving. Implication being - whites get a pass during these stops.

[Raine]

42. I'm in Los Angeles, I was stopped along PCH at

a checkpoint in Marina Del Rey a few months ago when they were checking for DUI and I'm white. They waved me over over, leaned into the car, wanted to see my driver's license and asked if I had had anything to drink. I told them all I had had to drink was coffee and they passed me on thru. I also had it happen down in San Diego on Coronada. Same thing, looking for DUI at check points.

edit: added word

[Irishonly]

89. At a check point in Pomona

an elderly, white male friend had forgot his license and was given a verbal warning. He knew had he been brown or black his car would have been impounded. For years, it hasn't been about being sober-it's been about licenses.

[elleng]

7. Harassment?

Provide ID. Destination etc, not so much, but why would we want to impede police investigations?

[Eddie Haskell]

15. I know, I had nothing to hide but ...

I forgot my license.

[elleng]

30. Nothing to hide not relevant; most of us don't.

Forgetting license could cause a bit of a clutch, eh?! I do the very polite, if asked (and if clocked WAY over speed,'So sorry, Officer.' And, when my lights were out, had had them 'repaired,' 'Oh No, Officer, just spent a fortune on them!'

[nosmokes]

39. Impede investigations?!? This is, or was, America. We're not supposed to

hafta show our 'papers' to the authorities just because they get a hair up their ass, and if officials interfere with a citizen going about his or her business in the course of the day they owe that citizen an explanation and an apology. Land of the free and all that jazz. We are not subjects of the crown.

[tabasco]

41. Yes, why would we want to impede the police?

Maybe read a book on U.S. history sometime.

[elleng]

53. Fine, lets not cooperate with those chasing child kidnappers, etc etc etc.

[MattSh]

71. Won't SOMEBODY please think of the children?

So as long as one child is missing, anywhere, the police should be able to do whatever they want, wherever they want? On the .00001% chance they MIGHT find a child kidnapper?

[elleng]

84. Overstate much? 'Whatever they want?' 'Wherever they want?'

Anyone here suggest such? Don't think so.

[MattSh]

86. So then, why DID the police pull over the OP? nt

[bigmonkey]

91. By making your suggestion general, you are proposing that it can be applied anywhere.

Think it through.

[no_hypocrisy]

9. Police are legally allowed to stop any motorist even arbitrarily to examine their documents

(license, registration, and insurance). Anything beyond that is up for challenge if you aren't being investigated for a crime or violation.

[WinkyDink]

32. Nope; must have a reason. And one need not have one's license in the car; one has 24 hrs to

produce it.

According to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, a police officer can only pull over a vehicle if there is suspicion of a legal discrepancy, such as a failure to obey traffic regulations or if the vehicle appears to be one used in a crime. This is referred to as reasonable suspicion. There are some cases when a police officer may pull over a vehicle simply to inform an individual of a problem with the vehicle or of an item on the vehicle, although this is not as frequent as other police stops.
Read more: What are Pennsylvania's Policies on Police Stops? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_7218974_pennsylvania_s-policies-police-stops_.html#ixzz1QKGoPHQ8

[pokerfan]

59. No, they aren't

They need probable cause.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment04/03.html

Now that doesn't mean that they won't make something up but they can't just stop you to see your papers.

[jberryhill]

70. No, but they can stop EVERYBODY to run a checkpoint

The point is that they are not selecting individuals

[WinkyDink]

78. Not for papers, NO.

[sufrommich]

11. Sounds like they're looking for someone. nt

[Rhiannon12866]

16. That sounds like a good possibility. Is there a prison nearby?

I once was stopped in a roadblock that lasted forever because they were looking for an escaped prisoner and checking every car. I was coming back from a vet visit, with both of my dogs in the car. They had diarrhea. x(

[justiceischeap]

18. I don't know how far York County Prison is from rt. 85 but there is a prison in York. nt

[Rhiannon12866]

25. I decided to take the scenic route, rather than the highway, in case I needed to stop for the dogs.

Bad idea, since there's a state prison at the top of the mountain, just off that road. Grant's Cottage, where President Grant spent his last days, is right nearby. I used to visit there, with my grandmother, when I was a kid, but I haven't felt like going there since they built the prison. :(

[Eddie Haskell]

29. It's not that close, but who knows.

The officer was quite courteous and let me off with a warning.

[justiceischeap]

37. A warning for what? nt

[Eddie Haskell]

57. I didn't have my license with me, or so I thought.

I couldn't find my wallet and I told the officer I must have left it at home. Turns out, I later found my license in the car.

[sabrina 1]

12. Several states have ruled that these checkpoints

are not legal. I don't know about PA but it has been an issue for a long time.

Did they say why they were there?

[WinkyDink]

35. Illegal in PA:

According to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, a police officer can only pull over a vehicle if there is suspicion of a legal discrepancy, such as a failure to obey traffic regulations or if the vehicle appears to be one used in a crime. This is referred to as reasonable suspicion. There are some cases when a police officer may pull over a vehicle simply to inform an individual of a problem with the vehicle or of an item on the vehicle, although this is not as frequent as other police stops.

Read more: What are Pennsylvania's Policies on Police Stops? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_7218974_pennsylvania_s-policies-police-stops_.html#ixzz1QKGoPHQ8

[sabrina 1]

40. Interesting, thank you. I didn't see PA on the list I had.

There was a Federal Court Ruling in DC in 2009 against them also. And even though the SC did rule on a Michigan case, (the Michigan SC had ruled that they were illegal and it was then taken to the SC) making a 4th Amend exception, the SC did agree that they are unconstitutional.

Federal Courts Says D.C. Police Checkpoints Were Unconstitutional

"It cannot be gainsaid that citizens have a right to drive upon the public streets of the District of Columbia or any other city absent a constitutionally sound reason for limiting their access," Chief Judge David B. Sentelle wrote for a three-judge panel. "It is apparent that appellants' constitutional rights are violated."


With homicides and other crimes on the decline, officers said they had no plans to set up more roadblocks. But D.C. Attorney General Peter Nickles said that officers would work to find a "more creative way to deal with very unusual circumstances that is consistent with the Fourth Amendment," which protects against unreasonable search and seizure.

Here's a list I found of states where they are illegal.

Suspionless Sobriety Tests ~ A growing threat to individual liberty

•Alaska
•Idaho
•Iowa
•Michigan
•Minnesota
•Oregon
•Rhode Island
•Texas
•Washington
•Wisconsin
•Wyoming

PA wasn't on the list, so obviously it's not a complete list. I did read of a ruling in Nebraska also, but the police apparently didn't intend to stop using them, despite the ruling airc.

The Michigan court mentioned in the beginning of this comment btw, upheld its own SC's decision despite the SC ruling, and they are illegal in that state.

[Philippine expat]

62. But what is or at least was legal when I lived in Michigan

were checkpoints to check vehicle safety, proper DL and insurance.
If there was a real safety issue you did not drive your vehicle away.
Minor things like turn signals, tail lights, etc you got a "fix it ticket" which was dismissed if you got it fixed within 48 hours

[Eddie Haskell]

56. Thanks for the link.

The strange thing about the checkpoint was it's location. It was really in the sticks.

[Obamanaut]

64. Other than a site that has information from contributors, say maybe an

official state site, is there something that states law enforcement can not have checkpoints for checking licenses, vehicle safety equipement (lights, horn, turn signals, etc)?

[WinkyDink]

79. Well, why don't YOU Google this time?

[Obamanaut]

83. I can, and did. You provided the non-official site link, not me. Can you

find a real one?

[Obamanaut]

88. Did you find the link to a competent, reliable site yet? Is a random

stop the same as a checkpoint (for a specific reason) in your mind? Could they be looking for insurance coverage, DUI, vehicle safety violations, missing persons, something else?

Is EHow going to be it?

[Rhiannon12866]

14. I got stopped one time when they were stopping everyone and checking inspection stickers.

Didn't they give you a reason? :shrug:

[Eddie Haskell]

19. I didn't ask. I couldn't find my license and was too busy apologizing.

:nopity:

[Rhiannon12866]

28. I understand.

I got stopped during the winter because one of my headlights had gone out, unknown to me. I was suddenly surrounded by cops, two different cars, with lights flashing. I was scared witless... :scared: :pals:

[mwooldri]

95. Inspection stickers got scrapped in NC.

If the law enforcement agency has proper access to North Carolinas' system all they need to do is run the license plate. With the right systems in place no vehicle stop is required. Just drive through, the camera will do the rest.

I've been stopped about 3 times in my life in NC. Two of them were DUI checkpoints around a major holiday. The other one was because the police were looking for an escapee, and where I lived at that time there was only one way in and out of that place by road.

[Kali]

21. did you ASK?

it MIGHT have been an Amber Alert situation (not that it would be any real excuse for harassing innocent citizens, but sometimes there is an "emergency" situation where they will do a roadblock to try and catch a potentially dangerous suspect or whatever

of course around here we get the frequent DUI roadblocks, but they publish those in the paper beforehand

I would have asked what it was about.

[DesMoinesDem]

23. I belive the Supreme Court has required the police to let the public know beforehand

when and where they are having the checkpoints. I know it is that way in Iowa. I have a google alert set up to let me know when they come up so I can avoid them.

[Ian David]

24. Once, the Rockaway, New Jersey police set-up a checkpoint to ticket anyone....

... who had one of those "Baby On Board" signs or stick-on Garfields in their window, and cited them for driving with obstructed vision.

I was late getting to work because of that.

[Eddie Haskell]

31. Did they buy it?

:)

[Ian David]

46. Oh, yeah. They were actually giving out tickets for obstructed vision to people. n/t

[Obamanaut]

26. FHP (Fla Highway Patrol) has safety checkpoints, conducted with

the local LEO. They check license, tag, registration, lights, etc.

Last time I was stopped, I was on my motorcycle. The FHP guy noted that I have a motorcycle endorsement on my license, and I remarked something to the effect that it is a requirement, so of course I have one.

He just said "You might be surprised how many we find who don't bother" (or words similar to that.)

The locations of these checkpoints are published in the local papers well in advance, so it should be no surprise to anyone.

[Eddie Haskell]

27. I'll have to check the paper.

I've never been stopped before.

[Obamanaut]

33. Notification may not be the same for you. I'm in Florida, so the process may

be different.

[WinkyDink]

34. Not legal:

According to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, a police officer can only pull over a vehicle if there is suspicion of a legal discrepancy, such as a failure to obey traffic regulations or if the vehicle appears to be one used in a crime. This is referred to as reasonable suspicion. There are some cases when a police officer may pull over a vehicle simply to inform an individual of a problem with the vehicle or of an item on the vehicle, although this is not as frequent as other police stops.

Read more: What are Pennsylvania's Policies on Police Stops? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_7218974_pennsylvania_s-policies-police-stops_.html#ixzz1QKGoPHQ8

[Ian David]

47. But then if you point that out, the officer will "find" a reason.

For example, "You crossed the double-yellow line."

And probably you'd say, "Did everyone in line ahead of and behind me that you ALSO pulled over, ALSO cross the double-yellow line?"

[WinkyDink]

77. He has superiors. There are lawyers. And yes, I WOULD probably say that.

[msanthrope]

85. You are conflating individual stops with checkpoints. Different law.

Ehow is not competent legal authority.

[pipi_k]

36. I agree with the person upthread who said...

that it sounded like they might be looking for someone...

[Renew Deal]

38. Are you sure it wasn't a border crossing?

:silly:

[Ian David]

48. Crossing into Pokenostan. n/t

[Eddie Haskell]

58. In PA?

That's funny.

[Renew Deal]

66. Do you look Scrantonese?

I was kidding but... I've had the same thing that happened to you happen to me in Arizona. It was a pre-constructed INS check on an interstate. It was a few miles east of some border crossing.

[Rex]

43. There is no more 'innocent until proven guilty' in American justice anymore.

Now it is 'everyone is guilty, until proven innocent'. Should be illegal, but politicians LOVE them some police state! They embrace it like a lover.

[Obamanaut]

65. There never was. Here's a link to that and other items NOT in the

constitution

http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#innocent

[Shagbark Hickory]

44. Very common down here. Especially on July 4th, they've been known to blockade a 6 lane interstate

to check id's and arrest drunk drivers.

edit:
And yes, if you are driving and they ask for your DL, you are required to show them although I was of the understanding they need a reason to pull you over.

[dixiegrrrrl]

45. Ala. been doing it at least since 1986.

They simply call them checkpoints, sometimes the bigger towns publish the locations, a lot of times our smaller towns do not.
I got pulled over at 10 am, on residential street, for license/registration/insurance check.
I expect the fines for not having them on you helps the local coffers a lot.

[Speck Tater]

49. The only time that ever happened to me they were looking for an escapee from the penitentiary. nt

[emilyg]

52. Same scenario in Ga,

[Raine]

51. I'm in CA and they set up those DUI checkpoints

every so often. Yeah you are allowed to opt out but I think doing that is going to make you look suspicious and draw their attention right to you. They set up cones and wave you over, then lean into the car and ask for your DL and ask you some type of question (so they can smell your breath). They even after vehicles ready to take you away to the police station if you're drunk.

[tammywammy]

54. They do that here occasionally, checking insurance/DL/inspection. n/t

[tammywammy]

55. Dupe

[Eddie Haskell]

60. I did a search for "PA State Police checkpoint in Loganville"

Check this out: Pennsylvania Dept Of State Police in Loganville, PA is a private company categorized under State Government-Police. Companies like Pennsylvania Dept Of State Police usually offer: Law Enforcement Labor Services, Law Enforcement Training Services, Law Enforcement Support Services, Law Enforcement Medical Services and Law Enforcement Psychological Services.

http://www.manta.com/c/mmclx43/pennsylvania-dept-of-state-police

Strange. Is the PA State Police a private company? Or, has the state hired private contractors for manpower and training purposes? Was this a training exercise? Now I am getting paranoid. I'll just call Monday morning and ask some questions.

[Kali]

67. weird!

[WinkyDink]

80. Completely bizarre. I don't buy it.

[Eddie Haskell]

82. I don't either and I can't confirm that such a company exists.

But, I am going to call their phone number and ask some questions.

[Lugnut]

69. The last day of the month is on Thursday.

From what I've been told each PSP barrack has a monthly "station quota" that needs to be met. York station is probably short on its quota.

I've noticed more interstate patrols on I-81 in the Harrisburg area. A new crop of cadets graduated several weeks ago so there are more boots on the ground, too.

I was stopped once more than 40 years ago for a random check. All they asked for was my driver's license and registration. Back then you weren't obligated to provide insurance cards.

[JoeyT]

73. We have DUI and insurance checkpoints all the time.

As best I can understand it, you can be required to provide your license because there's no "right to drive". The insurance ones check your insurance card, driver's license, tag, and seat belt, and you get a ticket for any that are missing.

They're more or less an excuse to hand out tickets and search the cars of anyone with the wrong skin color.

[WinkyDink]

81. YOU might; it is NOT LEGAL in PA, where the OP was stopped.

And you cannot get a ticket for not having your license; one has 24 hours to produce it.

[peacebird]

74. could it have been one of the new TSA/police checkpoints?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1365182

[octothorpe]

75. Do you know what kind of checkpoint it was?

Was it just some random checkpoint looking for drunks or was it set up because they were looking for someone who just committed a crime? I don't see much issue with it if it was the latter. You know, if they were looking for a kidnapped child, a murderer or CEO guilty of theft of US tax money. :)

[Eddie Haskell]

76. LOL

No, I couldn't find my license so I begged forgiveness and split with a warning.

[BobbyBoring]

90. VA has used random check points for 30 years

That I know of. They just set up and stop people to make sure they have a license and registration. Like VA, PA is a commonwealth state. Maybe it's just something they do.

[hack89]

96. Case law on checkpoints - there are many different types

Other Regulatory Checkpoints

Other Regulatory Checkpoints: Other than for DUI deterrence, roadblocks, checkpoints, and similar "administrative, special needs" searches have been approved in the following cases:

* License and registration inspection checkpoints. (Delaware v. Prouse (1979) 440 U.S. 648 <59 L.Ed.2nd 660>; People v. Washburn (1968) 265 Cal.App.2nd 665; People v. Alvarez (1996) 14 Cal.4th 155; Merrett v. Moore (11th Cir. 1996) 58 F.3rd 1547; United States v. McFayden (D.C. Cir. 1989) 865 F.2nd 1306; United States v. Diaz-Albertini (10th Cir. 1985) 772 F.2nd 654; United States v. Lopez (10th Cir. 1985) 777 F.2nd 543; United States v. Obregon (10th Cir. 1984) 748 F.2nd 1371; United States v. Prichard (10th Cir. 1981) 645 F.2nd 854.)
* Border Patrol checkpoint inspections. (United States v. Martinez-Fuerte (1976) 428 U.S. 543 <49 L.Ed.2nd 1116.)[br /> * Airport security searches. (People v. Hyde (1974) 12 Cal.3rd 158.)
* To regulate hunting licenses. (People v. Perez (1996) 51 Cal.App.4th 1168.)
* Agricultural inspection checkpoints. (People v. Dickinson (1980) 104 Cal.App.3rd 505.)
* Vehicle mechanical inspection checkpoints. (People v. De La Torre (1967) 257 Cal.App.2nd 162.)
* Security checkpoint at military bases. (United States v. Hawkins (9th Cir. 2001) 249 F.3rd 876, Air Force; United States v. Hernandez (9th Cir. 1984) 739 F.2nd 484, Marines.)
* Sobriety checkpoints on a federal military base. (United States v. Dillon (D.Kan. 1997) 983 F.Supp. 1037; United States v. Ziegler (N.D. Cal. 1993) 831 F.Supp. 771.)
* A forest service checkpoint for identification and registration, targeting what in the past has been a "uniquely disruptive event," is not per se illegal. (Park v. Forest Service (8th Cir. 2000) 205 F.3rd 1034, 1040.)
* Traffic safety checkpoints. (United States v. Trevino (7th Cir. 1996) 60 F.3rd 333.)
* Checkpoints at the entrance to a prison parking lot. (Romo v. Champion (10th Cir. 46 F.3rd 1013.)
* Checkpoint to "thwart an imminent terrorist attack or to catch a dangerous criminal who is likely to flee by way of a particular route." (see below; City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, infra.)
* Checkpoints set up for the purpose of collecting information from the public concerning a prior criminal act (i.e., a fatal "hit and run" in this case), when set up at the location of the prior criminal act, and exactly one week after it occurred. Such a roadblock was differentiated from the attempt to discovery "ordinary criminal wrongdoing," as condemned in Indianapolis v. Edmond, infra. (Illinois v. Lidster (2004) 540 U.S. 419 <157 L.Ed.2nd 843>.)
* An "information station" set up to provide park visitors with information concerning the rules of the park and be given a litter bag, where every vehicle was stopped. (United States v. Faulkner (9th Cir. 2006) 450 F.3rd 466.)

http://www.legalupdateonline.com/4th/70#cont95

[ileus]

97. They were looking for someone...you're weren't the one. have a nice day...

[Eddie Haskell]

98. I called the State Police

It was a "regulatory" checkpoint. They wanted to see your license, registration, and insurance. In PA, we get our vehicles inspected every year. All of the above are required before the inspection sticker is placed on your windshield. I don't see why the police needed to see anything but my sticker.