I keep getting into arguments with people who INSIST that Obama has raised their taxes

[LuckyTheDog]

No evidence can sway these people. They say things like "I don't know about you, but I KNOW what MY paycheck says! MY taxes have never been higher."

When I run across this on Facebook, I link those people to numerous sources that prove their taxes have been lowered. They come back with things like "all I know is that MY taxes have gone up. It's on my paycheck."

What do we do about this widespread idiocy?

[hobbit709]

1. Trying to teach a pig to sing only wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Their minds are made up, don't confuse them with facts.

[handmade34]

2. easy to dismiss them

but they don't go away and they vote

[hobbit709]

4. I don't waste my time with idiots whose minds are made up.

I will take the time with someone willing to listen.

[ejpoeta]

3. they need to go back to remedial math class then. first of all, they

had that payroll tax decrease or whatever it was. problem is that glen beck says taxes have never been higher so they believe it and nothing anyone says or facts you show them will tell them other wise. everyone else is lying. not sure how you can counter it.

[Obamanaut]

5. Federal tax on my retirement went up, but the 'making work pay' credit

went away when the stimulus expired in Dec 2010. So, my federal tax is about what it was prior to 'mwp', but many people will not remember that and just notice a check that is lower than it was a short time ago.





http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/7708090/federal_income_tax_was_increased_on.html

<snip> As of February 2011, those with a retirement income package that deducts Federal Income Tax from the retiree's monthly salary, has increased fifty dollars or more. <more at link>


http://blogs.federaltimes.com/federal-retirement/2011/02/02/february-2011-federal-income-tax-increase/

<snip> Q: My federal income tax withheld for February 2011 increased by $45.28. It increased from $349.80 to $395.08. I did not request this change. Is there reason for this retiree federal income increase? I understand that I am not the only retiree affected by this change.

A: According to NARFE, the National Association of Active and Retired Federal Employees, “While all of the attention recently was on Congress extending the Bush-era tax cuts — which happened — a lesser-known federal tax credit for employees and retirees that was part of the 2009 Stimulus law was allowed to expire.

“The ‘Making Work Pay’ credit expired Dec. 31, 2010, which could mean higher federal tax withholding amounts in monthly annuities/pensions for public and private sector retirees, including federal annuitants. The Internal Revenue Service issued a notice in December saying withholding tables for 2011 would no longer be adjusted for the Making Work Pay tax credit and there is no longer an optional additional withholding adjustment for pensions. <more at link>

[bigbrother05]

6. Based on this, the answer is

Your retirement taxes were raised so the Koch Bros could keep their W tax cut. Obviously the RW fought to make working class taxes higher to pay off their "advisors".

[Obamanaut]

8. Wasn't looking for an answer. Did not have a question. But, isn't it

true that when the bill that changed this went through congress - the president signed it?

Some people might look at that as the president raising their taxes.

[LuckyTheDog]

11. Payroll taxes were lowered in January (nt)

[bluedave]

7. you can't

do a thing-I talk to a teabagger--it's like talkin to an ape.

[Taitertots]

9. Just say "prove it"

Which of course they can't. It will expose that they really have done nothing to verify that their taxes have changed in either direction.

[Obamanaut]

14. Actually, I have a statement from the DoD showing how the fed tax

deduction on my retirement went up.

My response #5 in this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1360593&mesg_id=1360643

[JVS]

10. You're not as right as you think you are.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x227021#227021

There has been a back and forth on taxes such that it is possible that the people you are talking to have indeed experienced a bigger cut being taken from their paychecks, while at the same time the mechanism for that increase happening are such that if one could claim that it isn't a tax hike but an expiration of a tax cut.

[Autumn]

12. Are they older people on a pension or

the under middle class? If they are, their taxes went up when the tax breaks expired.

[Ian David]

13. The mistake Obama made was he didn't spend millions of dollars to give them their tax cuts...

... in the form of a check that was preceded by a cover letter telling them they were getting a tax cut.

That's the way Bush did it.