How the hell did they let this pass in NY?

[NightWatcher]

Why didn't the Mormons pump millions of dollars into yet another state to prevent some people from having the same rights as some other people?

This is outrageous #MagicUnderwearInATwist

[RandySF]

1. NY doesn't have the same screwed-up initiative process that we do.

[NightWatcher]

2. I'm glad to see that a representative body acted properly to preserve the rights of their people

We should NEVER have a popular vote for the rights of the minority.

Rights are rights and are not subject to the whims of the majority of voters.

Congrats New Yorkers and the thousands of others who will travel there in 30 days to get their share of equal rights. I hope NY reaps a huge benefit from the tourism and visitors who flock there. See California, you've lost out.

[2Design]

4. this will be great for NY economy n/t

[yardwork]

40. It will. Gay couples will now flock to New York to get married. So many possibilities....

Niagara Falls. The mountains. The Hamptons. Central Park.

No residency requirement in New York - anybody can go there and get married. It's going to be huge.

[PatSeg]

23. That's for sure

Anyone who hasn't had to deal with all the insane ballot initiatives in California, doesn't know how difficult it is. Special interest groups and corporations take advantage of the referendums and make actual governing almost impossible.

Prop 8 was introduced at the same time as the presidential election and mailboxes were filled with Prop 8 flyers, often depicting Obama on the front. It was very misleading for many voters, but most ballot initiatives are.

Here is one flyer I received in '08:

[Nye Bevan]

32. How is that flyer misleading? It expresses Obama's position very accurately (nt)

[PatSeg]

46. It implied that Obama was endorsing Prop 8

which he didn't. Meanwhile, other flyers and signs said that Prop 8 was about "Freedom of Speech" and "Education". People were bombarded with this stuff for weeks. Meanwhile, those opposed to Prop 8 weren't prepared for it all. On any given day, we'd drive by people on street corners waving signs about Prop 8 that had absolutely nothing to do with gay marriage.

[TheKentuckian]

3. Because the opposition becomes more feeble by the day and the money people don't give a fuck

The frenzy diminishes with each use of this raggedy tool and as such it is becoming ineffective for mobilizing fuckwits for regressive economics.

Marriage equality doesn't hurt ca$h flow.

[zeemike]

29. Exactly.

Has noting to do with cash flow and so the money interest really don't care at all.
But it is a useful burr under the saddle of the fundies which will keep them in the GOP corral.

[Chovexani]

5. We ran Mormons the fuck out of NY back in the 19th century

They don't want to tempt fate with us again

[JackRiddler]

8. Joseph Smith was a prophet...

dum dum dum dum dum dum

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104253/joseph-smith-part-1

(I hate South Park but that piece was very funny!)

[Chovexani]

25. One of my favorite episodes!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tx4obama]

6. Here is my question

What the hell did Governor Cuomo, a Democrat, do to get a state senate that has 32 Republicans, only 23 Democrats, and 4 Independents to pass this bill?

I'd love to know what Cuomo did, but we're probably never going to ever find out :)


Edited to add the 4 Independents that were omitted the first go round.

[NightWatcher]

7. Maybe he showed some REAL LEADERSHIP to DO THE RIGHT THING

Meanwhile, Obama is happy to attend an LGBT fundraiser, take their money, and take no real stand on the issue.

So now begin in earnest the whispers of Cuomo in 2016. If he continues to act like a Progressive, he'll get tons of support.

[Tx4obama]

10. I did not post my question re Cuomo in order for you to show up to bash Obama.

President Obama HAS taken a stand, it is just not the stand 'word for word' that you want him to take.

And if you think that Cuomo went around saying "pretty please vote for this bill because it's the right thing to do" then that is laughable. It's New York - they play dirty up there just like in Chicago - there must be a hell of a lot that when on behind the scenes that wasn't pretty and I betcha most of it were things that if made public would be shocking.

[NightWatcher]

12. How/why is criticism, "bashing"?

Cuomo stood on the correct side of an issue and he got it done, however he did it is not the question.

Obama, on the other hand, tap dances around the issue, but shows up to take their money.

This isn't "bashing", this is valid criticism. Just because the criticism hurts doesn't mean it's over the top or unwarranted bashing.

[Tx4obama]

13. We have no idea what Obama's strategy is.

Just because Obama doesn't come out and scream from the rooftops that he supports gay marriage doesn't mean that he doesn't or that he isn't working a strategy under the radar - by the way part of why Cuomo was able to succeed in getting this bill passed was because he 'was under the radar'. The analysts said tonight that Cuomo was doing everything under the radar that is why there wasn't as much of an uproar up there in NY as there could have been.

Obama has more on his agenda than one issue that needs to be done, other things that can't be done in one term. His best strategy is to stay low, get re-elected, then come out blasting in 2013 in order to get ALL the things done that need to be done on ALL issues for ALL people.

I'm just sick of every thread ending up having comments criticizing Obama.
He is not a dictator and he doesn't have a magic wand.
I just wish that folks would go criticize the U.S. House and U.S. Senate for a bit and give us a break for at least a day or two :)

----
Edited to change the word 'You' to 'We' in the comment title.

[baldguy]

19. "We have no idea what Obama's strategy is."

That's the problem. Obama's stance on questions about the govt recognizing the basic human equality of all American citizens shouldn't be a secret, or subject to political triangulation.

[Flubadubya]

34. +1,000,000,000

oops, left out a zero

[Kahuna]

20. +1,000,000

I see that you too understand how methodical our president is and how he operates. He never ever reveals his hand them BAM! Right between the eyes!

[canoeist52]

24. So...Cuomo is a dictator with a magic wand?

"He is not a dictator and he doesn't have a magic wand."

[Exilednight]

26. We have every idea of what Cuomo's strategy was. He sent out Steve

Cohen who twisted arms and pushed on Cuomo's behalf to pass this bill. He put a point man in place and made it clear that by the end of spring he was going to pass a gay marriage bill. He was a few days late, but NYers can live with it.

He took an active leadership role when he needed to within the gay community and gave several speeches on the subject.

In the end, he showed leadership.

[cameozalaznick]

30. What you said. Eom

[treestar]

35. Cuomo is in NY, where even Republicans may be reasonable.

Sort of like red states, where even Democrats may seem conservative.

Obama is the Executive for the entire nation, which includes the red states.

A governor of one blue state has a much better chance of getting progressive legislation.

[Flubadubya]

37. You're either on the right side of history or you're not...

no matter where or who you are.

[treestar]

41. The issue of the sub-thread is

That Cuomo being able to get NY Republicans to vote on something progressive was comparable to Obama getting national Republicans to do a similar thing. It's not.

[Flubadubya]

43. Sub-thread, sub-issue...

Underlying all that is the real issue: Whether Obama is willing to stand up for what is right.

In the long run most great leaders are judged such not because they were masters at political expediency and guile, but whether they stood bravely against the insanity of their day and did the right thing.

[treestar]

44. There are plenty of Republicans in power who think they are doing the right thing

by opposing gay marriage. And it has nothing to do with Cuomo somehow standing up strong. The NY legislature had the votes.

[Flubadubya]

45. Well, I see I'm wasting my time here...

:facepalm:

[treestar]

51. Well so am I

I mean clearly you're not going to consider the real arguments on this. You just gave up defending yours.

[Kahuna]

21. Cuomo is the govenor of a mostly progressive state. Cuomo's push

was much less risky that it would be for Obama in his first term. Obama is the president of a center right country. Obama will not give voters a reason to not vote for his re-election when if he wins, he will be in a position to do more things that may be considered "risky." It would also be useful if so-called progressive voters turn out to return the congressional leadership to the Democrats by a healthy margin. You can't expect the president to do all the heavy lifting. He's not superman. He needs the support of congress and voters.

[Exilednight]

27. New York is not as progressive as people think. Republicans hold the majority

of government throughout the state.

[Tesha]

31. It's nice that you buy-in to the "Center Right Country" mythology.

It's also amusing that you say "You can't expect the
president to do all the heavy lifting."

I thought we pay him the big bucks exactly for that
reason?

Tesha

[Kahuna]

49. I think the 2010 election results pretty much prove that it is center-right..

And the fact that there have been more republicans elected as President than Democrats. Keep it up and in 2012 you will further prove that theory.

[Tesha]

50. That would be because Democrats are afraid to run as Democrats.

Harry Truman explained that more than half a
century ago.

Tesha

[jeff47]

33. NY is NYC and a couple liberal cities surrounded by Alabama. (nt)

[treestar]

36. Absolutely

NY is a blue state. It's just ridiculous to start on Obama over this.

[Flubadubya]

39. As I said in post #37...

You're either on the right side of history or you're not... no matter where or who you are.

[Kahuna]

48. Like I said, The battle vs. the war. nt

[Tesha]

28. Hear, hear! It's a shame Obama is such a coward on all Rights issues. (NT)

[treestar]

38. Two Republicans voted yes

Several of the national bills passed had two Republicans to vote on it.

There are also whispers for Rick Perry to be President. Coming from a red or blue state to try to be President will invariably require some adjustment.

[aquart]

9. He was attorney general, wasn't he?

Possibly has a private collection of vividly clear photos and notarized documents.

[Tx4obama]

11. Yep, for four years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cuomo

[xchrom]

14. There was at least 1 article describing the hard push

Cuomo made on the NY senate to get this passed.

He took a leadership position.

And still managed the other business of his state.

[Tx4obama]

15. Got a link?

I don't believe that someone can 'push hard' against the republicans and that they will bend.
There must be more to it.
Someone either had a bunch a dirt on someone or some other explanation.

[xchrom]

16. do a search. nt

[Tx4obama]

47. Whatever.

If you don't have a link to support your statement then it must not be worth bothering with, so I'm not going to waste my time on it.
Have a nice weekend :)

[ejpoeta]

17. did they do the property tax cap and other things. there were a lot of things i thought were bad

they wanted to do here and then this one good thing. i am glad that they did the right thing with the gay marriage, but as someone who has become cynical of the political system, especially in NY, i worry about what is in the shadows that we aren't seeing because of this.

[dsc]

22. One GOP vote represented Niagra Falls

which stands to benefit immensely from this. It already gets heavy honeymoon traffic and now is going to get a ton of gay honeymoon traffic.

[yardwork]

42. Yep.