City of Los Angeles banned from taking & destroying the possessions of homeless people

[Liberal_in_LA]

City Banned from Taking and Destroying Possessions on Skid Row


The 500 storage bins at the Central City East Check-In Center offer a glimpse of the scale at stake in the issue of homeless possessions.

The City of Los Angeles faces severe restrictions in how it can pick up possessions left on the streets of Skid Row under the terms of an injunction reaffirmed on Thursday.

The case, filed by eight homeless individuals who say that the city took their belongings when they walked away for food, the bathroom or to appear in court, centers around Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment claims that the pick-ups violate protections against unreasonable seizure and the deprivation of property without due process.

The order did leave open the possibility of an acceptable program to store property taken off the streets and give individuals the right to come and retrieve it. The business community operates such a center in Skid Row, but it is currently "bursting at the seams," said Estela Lopez, head of the Central City East Association.

District Court Judge Philip S. Gutierrez did not mince words in shooting down the city's arguments that homeless individuals abandoned their property by walking away from them. In one part of the ruling, Gutierrez took that the city's attempt to apply several past cases as precedent, calling the logic "beyond comprehension."

In issuing the injunction, Gutierrez ruled that "Plaintiffs have clearly shown that they will likely succeed in establishing that the City seized and destroyed property that it knew was not abandoned."

http://blogdowntown.com/2011/06/6288-city-banned-from-taking-and-destroying-possessions

:applause: :woohoo:

[kestrel91316]

1. My workplace neighborhood has a chronic homeless problem. When

one of them left a shopping cart full of STINKING CRAP at my office a couple of years ago, I gave it about 4 days and then took it upon myself to dumpsterize the whole mess. In the entire, heaping full, jam-packed thing, I found nothing but filthy old shreds of clothing, broken plastic knickknacks, old fast food packaging, and other garbage.

I don't apologize to anyone for taking care of that obvious public health threat, and yes, I stank like a polecat when done.

The same crowd also doesn't hesitate to defecate all around my building and the neighbors', and even defecates on our back porch.

Whatever it is we as a society think we are doing to combat homelessness, it clearly isn't working. And the non-homeless suffer for it, too.

[EFerrari]

3. That's terrible. I hope you get some relief from other people's poverty ASAP.

[Liberal_in_LA]

4. +10

[kestrel91316]

5. Our most notorious neighborhood nuisance is actually the wife of a physician with a very

nice home in the hills nearby. She and her alcoholic/druggie friends have a scam going that a firefighter told me about - they fake illness/injury, somebody calls the paramedics who take them to the hospital, hospital finds nothing wrong, they claim poverty and no way to get back home, hospital gives them cash, they leave with cash and go to a particular liquor store where they load up on booze. It's nearly a daily occurence with "Colette", from what I hear.

Our local homeless problem has nothing to do with poverty (LA does a fairly good job with the merely poor) and everything to do with substance abusers who refuse the help they ARE offered because it cramps their chosen lifestyle.

[Luminous Animal]

8. First, I do not believe your story.

Paramedics are charging for services these days and they are pretty quick on turning over bills to a collection agency.

Second, people who work at hospitals are not stupid. They will not continue to hand our cash to habitual scammers.

Third, bullshit. LA does not do a good job with the homeless (of which only 25% suffer from substance abuse problems).

Forth, people who struggle substance abuse problems are victims of the disease of addiction. People who are suffering from addiction and who do not have a home are just as homeless as any other homeless person.

[kestrel91316]

15. Well, I do know what one very aggravated firefighter told me in disgust one day

when "Collette" pulled her stunt next door. And I have personally witnessed two other occasions when she also had the paramedics come running.

They are obligated to do it, no matter how many times she calls wolf.

Our local addicts have been offered help many times. They choose to continue living this way. If they want housing, that comes with inconvenient strings attached, like no drinking and drugging.

[Cid_B]

28. Can I get a link on that 25%?

I'm curious what the other "75%" are...

Poor money managers... I'll bet that's it...

[JDPriestly]

17. You are not on Skid Row in Los Angeles.

Yes, there is drug abuse there. Yes, there is alcohol abuse -- lots of it.

But that is not why the people are there. The doctor's wife is a rare example. She needs medical help.

A lot of long-term unemployed people are homeless. It's easy to find the one atypical case of a wealthy person who insists on living the life of a street person. But then, there are extremely poor people who somehow manage to live like millionaires mooching off rich friends.

Don't generalize from the rare exception. Homeless people need compassion and help, not censure and hate.

[EFerrari]

24. Your local homeless problem is all about poverty

and no, Los Angeles does not do a fairly good job wth the merely poor. And addiction is not a lifestyle.

[Odin2005]

26. Cool story, Bro! *SARCASM*

:eyes:

[Luminous Animal]

6. Thanks for that. My aborted reply wasn't so subtle!

[kestrel91316]

7. I hope you own a business someday where homeless drunks and druggies

harrass YOUR clients and defecate on YOUR doorstep (when an area they could dig a cat-hole in is 30 ft away).

Like I said, our area homeless aren't poverty cases. They choose their lifestyle and reject assistance offered.

[Luminous Animal]

9. I live in San Francisco. My city and neighborhood have a horrificly huge homeless

population and I am an enabler handing out cash, cigarettes, food, and blankets on a regular basis.

Not only have I had to clean up the aftermath of an overnight homeless camp on several occasions but, since I live in a party destination, I clean up vomit, empty containers & trash from ordinary 20 year old somethings who invade my neighborhood every weekend.

[JDPriestly]

18. If I did, I would join with others in my community to do something

positive about the situation. If you are in LA, there are lots of organizations dealing with the issue. Organize the local merchants to help the homeless.

Find a positive solution. If you can't find a positive approach to the homeless at your doorstep, how in the world do you expect to succeed in your business. Running a business is about solving problems. Prove you can solve a problem and organize to help the homeless in your area.

Locate the nearest shelter. Contact those who run it. Buy some bus tickets or get someone who has a van to offer rides to the homeless for free meals at the shelter. That's just one of a number of ideas you might try.

[cui bono]

25. Why don't you hire one or two of them to clean up outside?

There used to be a homeless guy who would go up and down my residential street looking for recyclables he could make money taking to a center. He was not a dumb guy, we used to have some conversations about politics after he saw the protest sign in the back seat of my car. I used to save all my cans for him. He would knock on my door to check if I had anything for him and we would chat for a few minutes each time. He was an admitted drug addict and would tell me about how he had just gotten busted again.

Well, the gas station a few blocks away used to pay him to sweep up outside and I would see him there from time to time working away and doing what seemed to be a great job. He told me the auto repair shop across the street also paid him to keep an eye out on the place at night. People would give him clothing and eventually he ended up with a nice bike. Last time I saw him he told me he was moving to Hawaii! I don't know if that really happened or not.

Point is, he was not a "loser" even though he was a drug addict. Put aside your judgement of people with addictions for a moment and offer them a chance to take pride in something and make a little cash to help take care of themselves. Somehow I get the feeling you'll respond by saying you don't feel like helping them obtain more drugs/alcohol but I think if you open your mind and give one or two of them a chance you just might make a difference in their lives, and by doing so you just might solve your problem. Perhaps it'll change your life too and you'll learn to be less judgmental and have more compassion for those not as well off as yourself. And yes, that includes drug addicts. Do you really believe people "choose" to be addicted to drugs?

[druidity33]

27. I hope you realize

that you are talking about a very specific and small group of people and appear to be making disparaging statements based on personal and anecdotal experience. Please do not lump "the homeless" in with your local ne'er do wells. Most of the homeless and streetbound are there from desperation and illness. Most of the homeless could take care of themselves, given a few breaks. I'm sorry you've had trouble dealing with these people, but please don't let them taint your view of "the homeless".

:hug:

[kestrel91316]

11. I note with irony that you say you live in "Paris of the Pacific".

You wouldn't happen to have very many folks who choose the homeless drunk lifestyle there, would you? I didn't think so.

But yet you can judge those of us who have to deal with these losers every day for decades on end.

[EFerrari]

23. You must be jokng.

[RZM]

12. But in a roundabout way, isn't that sort of the point of programs that homeless advocates promote?

Most people agree it's not good to have lots of folks living out on the streets. The whole point of combating homelessness is to give people the support and tools they need to actually have homes. Drug treatment, job programs, more and better shelters, support for mental illness, etc. The point of all of that is to get people off of of the streets. In the end, does it really matter all that much why? Whether or not you want people off of the streets because you empathize with their plight or because you don't want them defecating on your property, in the end it's all about what's actually done for the problem, not why it's done.

[demmiblue]

16. +1 n/t

[JDPriestly]

14. I assume that you donate generously to local homeless shelters.

That is the real answer.

A small minority of the homeless are too frightened to go into a shelter, but most of them would like to have single room occupancy or housing vouchers so that they can have a roof over their heads.

When you give to a homeless shelter that offers job placement and assistance in getting long-term housing to its clients, you do far more to stop the leaving of shopping carts full of junk around town than you do by becoming outraged and disgusted with a situation that the homeless person is helpless to change on his or her own.

Everyone needs to grow up and begin to solve this problem, not just take out frustrations on the needy.

I have a friend who was homeless for years. She looked lost and insane until finally she received her housing voucher.

What a change!!!! Now that she has a shower, a bed, a safe place to sleep and store her things, she shops in second-hand stores and looks absolutely elegant. I am not exaggerating.

What a difference a room of your own can make. There is no excuse for the cruel attitudes of Americans toward the homeless.

[TBA]

21. OMG - Have you spent any time with the homeless?

I mean, talking to them, hearing their stories?

I have. For one, where to use the bathroom is a big problem for them. They are denied access to restaurants, stores and the like in most major cities.

Many are decent kind people who have fallen on very hard times.

Do yourself a favor and get thee to a shelter and go to work as a volunteer.

[1monster]

31. Can your business afford a port-a-potty and service for it? I realize that you

would prefer not to have the homeless around your business, however, since that does not seem to be an option, maybe offering some services, like a port-a-pottie, would help keep your area clean.

If not, at least you tried to help them and yourself.

[Blue Owl]

2. Nice to see a ruling in favor of the underprivileged, for once!

:kick:

[Luminous Animal]

10. Yes, it is!

[slackmaster]

13. Yes, a ruling that allows them to retain the full dignity of their status as underprivileged people

:hi:

[mitchtv]

19. what will this ruling mean in , say, Fresno?

where it is all out war on the homeless? Nothing , I guess

[slackmaster]

22. We have a tag-and-release program for the homeless here in San Diego

Our various ordinances banning sleeping in public, not having at least $20 on your person, having to carry picture ID, etc. have all been declared unconstitutional.

[druidity33]

29. Do they pin the tag

in the ear? Seriously, do the authorities call it "tag & release"? If so, that is shameful. Homeless people are already treated like animals, to codify that policy with a program name specifically related to "wildlife management" is disgraceful...

:(

[slackmaster]

30. The police have a homeless intervention unit that tries to get people into shelters

They take names and photos, if for no other reason than to help identify homeless people who become disoriented or die. Social workers attempt to intervene, and connect people with private organizations such as Father Joe's Villages. Their success rate at getting people off of the streets is spotty.

San Diego has probably the best climate anywhere in the USA for someone to live outdoors, except when it rains heavily (which is very rare but the flooding in some areas gets severe.)

http://www.fatherjoesvillages.org/

[saras]

20. Maybe the homeless should start picking up "abandoned" cars and motor homes...