Hold on to your books!

[mia]

Follow Florida's Lead: Why More States Should Switch to Digital Textbooks in Schools NowFlorida again leads the way

http://www.good.is/post/follow-florida-s-lead-why-more-states-should-switch-to-digital-textbooks-in-schools-now/

It seems like digital textbooks have been the next big thing for years, but, with a few isolated exceptions, they haven't exactly been embraced by schools. That's about to change in Florida thanks to the gutsy passage of a law requiring all public schools in the state to make the switch to e-textbooks by the 2015-16 school year. Critics are a bit freaked out over this decision because education budgets are already tight and e-readers aren't free. But it's about time school districts make the move.

Admittedly, digital textbooks don't look like a great deal right now. On top of having to shell out a few hundred dollars for a Kindle, Nook, or iPad, you then have to pay for the digital textbooks themselves, and they're generally only about $10 cheaper than their hardback counterparts. That's because the bulk of publisher's production costs come from paying researchers and writers, not printing.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't begin the transition. Florida districts have four years to figure this out, and the price of e-readers will drop even more during that time. After all, the devices are already half as expensive as they were just a couple of years ago. Even if the price of e-readers doesn't halve again, there are plenty of other ways districts will save megabucks by making the switch. And digital textbooks may get cheaper too if the format makes it easier for editions to be updated year after year.

Furthermore, e-readers wouldn't only be used for textbooks. Classic books, which are mainstays of middle and high school English classes, often have expired copyrights and are therefore part of the public domain. They can be downloaded for free. Instead of schools having to buy new class sets of The Great Gatsby and To Kill a Mockingbird year after year, each new group of students can simply download a copy without spending a dime....


Before long all students will be going to "virtual schools".

[Angry Dragon]

1. They are just following Jeb's lead

and Jeb has an agenda .......... his brother owns a education software company .......... makes one stop and think if he might
want schools to go digital

[mia]

40. Not to forget the Chris Whittle (Edison Schools) connection.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8075837

[RamboLiberal]

2. I see no problem with going to ebooks

Now students won't have to lug around heavy backpacks plus ebooks are so much easier to reference. And maybe even save for future reference.

I love ebooks! Wish they'd have been available during my school days.

[Peregrine]

7. No backpacks, be real

Ever check the average student's backpack. There ain't no books. It is mostly gaming equipment and software, candy, magazines ... And their homework crushed to the bottom even though they and their parents insist that they turned it in.

[RamboLiberal]

10. I didn't say no backpacks I said heavy backpacks

textbooks are damn heavy!

[FLPanhandle]

21. I can tell you my daughters backpack weight is 80% textbooks

Notebooks, homework, and project work. No gaming equipment, no candy, no magazines.

[SoCalDem]

76. It's the budget cutbacks & designs of schools that "bred" backpacks

In our day, they only people who had backpacks, were hikers..

But then we had LOCKERS..nice-sized lockers..and time between classes (in higher grades) to actually go to the locker and get the materials we needed for the next class. Our schools were not city-block sized, so we had plenty of time.

We also had a classroom set of books....every desk had a book on it, and we left it there when we went to the next class. We had a DUPLICATE of those books AT HOME..Those books never left the house. They were there for our homework.

The only stuff we carried around with us was our personal stuff (purses, a sweater, etc) and a ring binder/notebook. When school ended that was all we took home with us...and returned the next day with.

The books we bought were returned to the schoolbook store at the end of school year and sold back to them depending on the condition of the books. In August we went back & bought the next year's required books.

In families with more than one kid, the parents would often wait to see if the books had changed before the sold them back.. If a younger sibling had "the same book" assigned, they could save a little money.

[RamboLiberal]

80. I wish I'd had a backpack

Had a school bag. Not all textbooks fit. Had to carry most books in my arms. We didn't have the luxury of dual sets. And many of the books were passed year to year. You darn well better not write more than your name in them or end of year your parents had to pay. Also lugged a 3 ring binder.

[theophilus]

87. Oh, we'd have been in heaven if we'd had a school bag.

We had to carry all of our books when we changed classes. One in one hand maybe two in another. One under each arm and a couple between our legs. We'd just be a hoppin' from class to class and then we'd fall down and have to pick 'em all up again and we loved it! We couldn't get enough of it! Flibbity flu!!!!!!

[Chisox08]

150. Did you tie an onion to your belt?

[Codeine]

157. Well it WAS the fashion of the time. nt

[JackRiddler]

161. Are you doing that Monty Python routine?

"Four Yorkshiremen"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

[theophilus]

174. Yeah, with a little bit of Dana Carvey's "grumpy old man" thrown in. You got it. n/t

[Buns_of_Fire]

184. Is this the point where I get to mention that we had to walk 12 miles to school in the snow?

Uphill both ways? Our parents couldn't afford 3-ring binders, so we had to use flat rocks for our notes -- at the end of each school year, we'd have to sand off the previous year's notes and use them again for NEXT year's notes!

And we LIKED it that way!;-)

[midnight]

3. This will not save money and it will not create jobs... It will shift the power into the hand of

those controlling the machines... It will open up a new way to approach learning and teaching... Sadly though the thing we most desperately need is more face to face between teacher and student....

[RamboLiberal]

36. Luddite - ebooks are here to stay

[girl gone mad]

75. This is just another effort to extract rents from the population.

Mark my words. E-textbooks will all end up being rentals that will cost as much as a printed textbook, but will expire after one or two terms. The consumer will have nothing to show for it. There will be no book to resell or reuse and they'll be stuck with an obsolete reading device.

It's a scam.

[xphile]

173. That is the other problem I have with e-books.

Companies do not put out electronic versions of things so the consumer can keep them. They want to keep extracting revenue from their cash cows aka customers. The same way media companies would love to be able to sell you a disc that will only show a movie x number of times before you have to pay for it again, the e-book companies would love to provide the content for a limited amount of time. But they will not be willing to cut the price on such a thing. E-books may be cheaper now but it's only a matter of time until they want those books to expire and you'll have paid large amounts of money and have nothing to show for it.

At least with my textbooks I have a book in my hand. I can sell it back or keep it when the semester is over. My choice.

[lunatica]

4. That will eliminate the overloaded backpacks and that's a good thing

Here at UC Berkeley the students put ALL their text books into their backpacks and it looks like they're carrying a person on their backs. I don't see how that can be healthy for their bodies. I'll be glad for them if they can get e-textbooks, though a lot of them like to use hi-lighters on their books.

But I can see where problems might arise. Open text exams could prove difficult. It would be a lot easier to lose a kindle which would mean you lose everything on it.

[RamboLiberal]

12. ebook software can allow highlighting & reference notes

And losing a device is no biggie beyond the cost since your account syncs the books between devices.

[nebenaube]

59. Does it sync your highlighting and notes?

I could see some privacy issues with that. Then again, losing them would suck. Also, handwriting notes is a better way to learn than typing notes. With an E-Reader, there is more work in order to keep hand written notes in context. Sorry, but I prefer books with wide margins.

[RamboLiberal]

67. Yes it can sync - and that is getting better & better

I prefer to type my notes since that makes them searchable as well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Yes and I use them by the way

My devices are all synced up thank you very much. As to privacy... it is a last century concept... unfortunately.

[MineralMan]

69. Also, if you move the cursor over a word on the Kindle,

you get a definition from its built-in dictionary. Now there's a useful thing, especially for schoolkids.

I see no downside to this at all.

[Solomon]

27. LOL I can't imagine ever ever losing my Kindle. It's literally by my side

and within my eyesight, all day, every day. LOL

I even turned around to go back home on the way to work one day when I discovered to my horror, as I was speeding down the highway, that I had left it on the table by the door. G#DD###&*^#@!

LOL

[RamboLiberal]

35. +1 Same with my Nook

And if I ever lose it I can still read my books on my laptop. On my phone. I'm even thinking about checking out free Kindle app so I can get Kindle books B&N doesn't sell for Nook.

[Dappleganger]

43. Same here, it stays with my glasses...

and I can't SEE without those, LOL. Dh and our daughter are the same with their Nooks, they keep them close at hand as much as they do their keys and wallet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Why I got the IPAD...

:-)

I got both.

[pipi_k]

77. Like the person above me said...with an additional thought...

Not a biggie other than having to buy a new Kindle, but in the meantime if the person has an iPhone, those books are also accessible there.

My entire Kindle library is right there on my iPhone...download the app and there you go...

[Peacetrain]

5. The problem with e books is the problem with anything that is linked to computers

just like the internet when stories suddenly "disappear".. when downloading new books..facts in other books or newspapers could be wikipediaed so to speak.

[mia]

9. without hard copies it will be easy for the powers that be to rewrite

History, Science, Literature and any other subject. Students will be fed what is deemed necessary for each student, in particular, to know.

[Peacetrain]

17. That is my fear..

[RC]

18. DING! DING ! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!

The very fact a republican in a corrupt republican state came up with this should be a RED flag and every one need to be very suspicious here.

[RamboLiberal]

25. Like they aren't now or that 1 friggin' state like Texas

Is allowed with its fundie school officials to control much of the textbook market.

Maybe ebooks will be easier to format to the wishes of the schools & localities so if TX wants to be basakwards they can while CA can be more progressive.

On edit:

The board, whose members are elected, has influence beyond Texas because the state is one of the largest buyers of textbooks. In the digital age, however, that influence has diminished as technological advances have made it possible for publishers to tailor books to individual states.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html

[sunnystarr]

28. How is that different now with books? (nt)

[Solomon]

30. Psst!

It ain't.

[FLPanhandle]

47. It isn't

But it's something people didn't grow up with so they are scared of the new thing. Logically, there is no difference.

[Auggie]

31. +1: Palin supporters rewriting the wikipedia Paul Revere entry

[JackRiddler]

39. also, to track what each student is actually reading and focusing on...

this will even be presented as a good: to allow "individualized" learning.

[mia]

45. and they'll be directed to other reading that dumbs them down just

in case they drift into reading material that may promote any "high ideas" that they can strive for anything better than becoming a factory worker.
I can think of a whole new genre for literature studies.

[JackRiddler]

48. And what if they use the e-book to read non-school stuff?

Will it be a scandal? Probably dozens of those.

Strict content controls will be mandated.

Mavens will find justifying arguments, like: Well, if the school library wouldn't buy the BOOK,* Kindle shouldn't be cleared for it either!

Ugh.

--------

* - edit to correct

[RamboLiberal]

55. They can have their own personal ereader or tablet

Prices are doing nothing but coming down on the readers & tablets. B&N offers free books or very reasonable prices on classics. Kindle you can download the app for free & read on other devices. Many have lending features.

[JackRiddler]

56. No they can't.

You know that's far from true for everyone -- at any price.

[RamboLiberal]

60. uh huh - like they buy and read books now or go to the library

And most of the poor have a TV - if you can buy a TV you can buy an ereader.

And there will be nothing stopping anyone from still buying a used book or going to the library if govt hasn't closed.

[RamboLiberal]

57. Kids will know how to hack these devices

There are hacks out there now for ereaders.

Wow - instead of hiding that paperback or comic book in the text book while teacher droned on I'd have been reading Twilight on an ereader if I was in school today!

[Dappleganger]

167. They'll hack it and play Angry Birds...

just because it's possible. ;)

[RamboLiberal]

51. And how exactly are paper books they are directed to now any different?

Curriculums are curriculums inside the school no matter if paper books or ebooks.

Outside the school a student is free to choose their own reading material whether a paper book or their personal ebook/device reader.

[eilen]

179. Who will do that in a class of 40-60 kids?

Individualized learning is going the way of the polar bear. TFA teachers will not be investing time developing this skill--2 years and they are out to conquer the business world. The test does not test to the individualized learning needs of students.

Parents are required to monitor Kindle/textbook use and replace power cords etc. when lost (good luck with that).

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. They are already doing that

jaysus, it has nothing to do with the medium.

[Occulus]

178. Yes it does.

Imagine the following news item:

THE AUSTIN CHRONICLE

By Jordan Smith, Friday, June 23, 2015

Texas parents today are questioning why some of their students are reading different versions of American history in local schools.

"It was so sudden," says Terry Jackson, whose daughter attends Linden Grove Middle School in Austin. "Between one day and the next, all mention of the Founding Fathers' religious viewpoints were simply removed. How can they just take away history like that?"

Parents of other students contacted by this reporter were asking the same kinds of questions. An investigation by the Chronicle found that all the affected students are using the district's new ebook readers, which allow students' textbooks to be stored digitally on a handheld device.

"We are aware of the issue and are working with the publishers of the affected books to correct the problem," an official with the school district who did not wish to be named told the Chronicle when asked for comment.

The action may be tied to a recent move by the Texas Board of Education, one of the agencies that oversees the content of textbooks used in Texas public schools. A source close to the Board claims its members are sharply divided between two factions.

"One group of Board members holds to deeply Christian values," the source explained in a telephone interview. "Those members want Texas schoolchildren to believe that the Founders of the United States based the Constitution on the Bible, and the historical truth doesn't agree with that interpretation."

The decision to remove all mention of the Founders' religious beliefs from electronic versions of American history texts was reached in a combative closed-door Board of Education meeting two days ago. The meeting, which lasted well past midnight, was not publicly announced and no minutes appear to have been kept...."

[Raine]

97. Yes, EXACTLY!!!!! nt

[FLPanhandle]

6. My daughters have backpacks that weigh a ton

No reason why the words can't be displayed electronically. Good move in my opinion.

[itsrobert]

8. +1

Some of these kids look like pack mules to and from school.

[Dappleganger]

44. Same here, one has back trouble because of it too.

The schools won't allow rollerbags as they take up too much room on the bus and hallways.

[FLPanhandle]

65. We eventually bought a separate set of textbooks for home ourselves

Just to keep them from having to haul all that weight all day long.

[CrispyQ]

11. And the schools & students who can't afford to buy these?

I still recall a thread by madfloridian where she told a tale of two different school districts. One district, the rich little darlings got two sets of school books so they wouldn't have to carry the books to & from school. Another district was using 8-15 year old books.

As both parties work to dismantle the public school system, the republican party is also actively trying to weaken child labor laws in some states. Is this a coincidence?

[RamboLiberal]

15. I'd bet subscription plans for ebooks will be a lot cheaper

And certainly easier for publishers to update.

You can actually get some textbooks now for free or reasonable prices.

And many classics are free!

[xphile]

42. If the e-book is only 10 dollars less than the actual book how much of a savings is this really?

I'd rather have an actual book which I can decide whether or not to sell back at the end of the school year.

Not to mention there's no discussion of how people who cannot afford a Kindle or other such device is supposed to have access to this book.

Nor has anyone addressed the tendency of companies to decide to disappear things in the middle of the night. The distributor of the books I bought can't come in my house in the middle of the night and decide they want the book back.

[RamboLiberal]

64. Do the math - 1000 students x 10 = 10000 saved

I can buy & read ebooks now without buying a Kindle or a Nook or whatever.

Public schools will have to provide the readers.

Ebooks are here. Ebooks are staying. Textbooks are going digital. Deal with it!

[xphile]

126. Families are only buying for the students in their family. I seriously doubt that math is going to

make it worthwhile for them to buy a rather expensive kindle or other e-book reader especially if there are more than one student in their household. And I can't take my laptop with me when I'm out and about and want to take my study materials with me. The cost of a reader is not justified for a mere 10 bucks in savings on a textbook.

Your math is not persuasive.

[RamboLiberal]

129. How many classes does a student take?

Let's say 5 a year. Already $50 in savings. New Nooks are already down to $139 and you know there will be price wars. Plus there is a used market.

[xphile]

143. And that 139 bucks spent on the gadget could go to a book. You don't get that

do you?

People have enough trouble trying to buy regular books but you want them to buy some gadget on top of it? Did it not occur to you that maybe the gadget is an added expense that just can't be taken on?

[RamboLiberal]

145. B&N already saved the cost in my reader

in free ebooks. Every Friday they offered a free book and some darn good reads at that.

Also downloaded for free an over century old book I'd have probably had to pay a rare book store $50+.

And with books being maybe half the price of the hardback I'm able to afford more books.

Far as reselling hard copy books - well the pricing robots have screwed that market for the most part.

Oh and many books if I'm not interested in buying I can go to B&N & read for free for an hour per day per book. Don't have to worry the book may not be there next time I visit.

More B&N's near my work/home than libraries.

[xphile]

177. Do try to stay on topic. The discussion at hand is the purchase and use of e-books as textbooks.

Professors assign certain books and specific editions. If you don't have them you have trouble following along in class. Current editions of textbooks are not given away for free. So your argument is completely specious.

You completely ignore the points being made by bringing up free books given away on Fridays by Barnes and Noble as if these free books have anything to do with textbooks.

We're discussing textbooks. Your points do nothing to counter my argument. I'm not spending money on a e-book reader that I can use for a used textbook and I seriously doubt other families with money issues are inclined to do so either. The e-book reader is an extra expense. Students HAVE to buy the textbooks. Why would they want to buy an e-book reader which could keep them from buying one more book needed for their coursework?

Barnes and Nobel could have the entire Harry Potter series available for free on their e-book reader but if I'm looking for math and accounting textbooks it doesn't do me any good. What part of that are you having trouble understanding?

[RamboLiberal]

185. What part of the future is coming don't you understand?

Tell me the college student now who isn't required to have a computer?

In probably less than 10 years hard copy textbooks will be gone for the most part.

My prediction is most school and essentially all college students will have 1 or 2 electronic devices that will function as their primary device for class for books/media/etc.

[xphile]

187. What part of stay on topic are you having trouble with? You keep going on about free

books when the topic is textbooks which have to be paid for. It took you this long to go on about your grand prediction about how you think e-books are the wave of the future in textbooks? Look there's no need to get nasty with me but you were off topic. WTF was I supposed to do go on discussing your nirvana of free books for leisurely reading when the main topic was textbooks?

And there are plenty of people who are unable to buy the readers who are not going to spend money on the items. As long as there are people especially book ordering professors who prefer real books there will be actual books. There are multi-media opportunities and while some professors will give out pdfs of material and occasionally use the computer to access online video and what not most of them still use a chalkboard. This includes the younger professors so I rather doubt that they'll be in a big rush to grab electronic readers for all the coursework. Not to mention that I prefer the ability to keep my textbooks something which e-books do not guarantee as the industry is already making noises about making these things only available for a set amount of time before it deletes itself. Not cool. I prefer to control what I do and do not delete from my electronic devices.

I'm no Luddite I like technology in its place but I prefer to have a real book where I can use my labels to get the pages that I need for future use when it comes to citations, reviewing definitions and what not something that's not nearly as easily done with some electronic reader which will eventually have problems with screens and what not. So I rather doubt that the electronic reader will be quite so popular in 10 years.

[RamboLiberal]

188. Make a note to revisit this topic in 10 years bet majority of hard copy textbooks

Will be a memory! Oh there won't be dedicated ebook readers - it will be all one device. As for free and other info!

Inexpensive lessons and materials: Ebooks for ereaders and other online educational tools like mobile apps are less expensive to produce than traditional textbooks and will save money. Some online materials, such as OpenTextbook, are free. Amazon recently introduced a new ad-supported e-ink Kindle at a reduced rate (less than half of a comparable tablet). Whether schools will allow ad-supported technology in the classroom remains to be seen. Ebooks shouldn't be seen as a separate device like an ereader, but as a free application that exists on almost every platform. The ebook learning experience can be enjoyed anywhere for free. Today, a student can read a free textbook on her school PC, continue reading on her BlackBerry smartphone during the bus ride home and then open the reading app on her iPad to the exact point where she stopped reading on her phone. Any notes she made on any platform would be saved automatically. This content and extra portability cost the student and the school nothing.

Given these pluses, instead of confiscating handhelds, today's teachers want more of them in the classroom. According to a great report (PDF) -- "The New 3 Es of Education: Enabled, Engaged, Empowered: How Today's Educators are Advancing a New Vision for Teaching and Learning,"

Teachers highly value the ability of the devices to increase student engagement in learning (77 percent), to facilitate improved communications between teachers, parents and students (64 percent) and to access online textbooks anytime, anywhere (64 percent). Administrators note the same benefits but with stronger validation of the student engagement component (84 percent) and adding in the idea that the devices can extend learning beyond the school day (66 percent) or create opportunities for more personalized learning experiences (64 percent).
When mobile devices are introduced, studies show that students become more excited about learning and teachers become more enthusiastic about teaching. The benefits are showing in higher test scores, decreases in disciplinary actions and increases in attendance. Some school programs are beginning to require an iPod touch. (A few schools will even standardize over to the iPod touch's big brother, the larger and more expensive iPad.)

But don't think mlearning is an expensive way of throwing new money at an old problem. In the developing world, mlearning is seen as the best and cheapest approach to leapfrogging into the 21st century. Mlearning has the benefit of a cheap display technology that the student probably already has. (The majority of the world accesses the Internet through a mobile device instead of a desktop PC.) Most of the infrastructure isn't in the school but in the cloud, which means that an mlearning program's back office hardware costs are negligible.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suren-ramasubbu/mobile-learning_b_867745.html

BTW already law in California by 2020 - As CA goes so will most of market as they have to be one of the biggest markets.

California law requiring electronic textbooks in all primary and secondary schools by 2020 indicate that the days of a hard-copy textbook being the primary instruction aid are most likely numbered.

http://wjlta.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/the-future-of-textbooks-in-a-digitized-world/

[xphile]

191. First of all, I don't think schools should be places where children are subjected to

advertising. It's bad enough that so many of them think everything you see on TV must be true. I have to explain to my nieces and nephew that not everything they read on the internet is true and that people who are trying to sell you crap are not likely to tell you things that will make you not want to buy their crap. Children are exposed to way too much advertising and not enough lessons on critical thinking and how media especially advertising works.

Second of all, there is nothing that says that the cost of textbooks will go down because they are electronic books. If you'd read the OP you'd see that the cost of the book isn't the printing it's the research going into gathering the data for the book. That's not going to change so I see no reason why the price of the textbook would go down. Additionally, the demand for textbooks is fairly inelastic, the books have to be purchased regardless of price, so considering that firms want to maximize profit, they're not likely to lower the price of books all that much if at all. We don't have a lot of publishers when it comes to textbooks and very few reputable educators are going to want some unknown self publisher to be the author of the textbooks they use in their classroom. Maybe in Texas but considering what they're doing to history books they don't have much of a reputation for giving much of a damn about facts and I don't see that changing any time soon and I don't expect other areas to follow Texas rather shitty lead.

Third, using e-books entails a cost on the family of the student that isn't there now in lower grades. You expect the families of students some of whom can't afford the other side items that show up in the back to school list, which are considerably less expensive than an e-reader, to pay 200 bucks for something to let their child have access to the textbook that they expect the school to provide? Not bloody likely! That's not even going into things like cords, theft, breakage and other problems that come up in electronic devices that don't come up in paper books.

It's a damn lot of money to spend in times when we're cutting back. I'm no Luddite but all this gee whiz factor about the next gadget doesn't take into consideration some serious drawbacks. It looks like people are so impressed with the shiny new electronic that they didn't bother to think through some serious drawbacks and problems with implementation.

Then again some don't give a damn if the poor gets educated and don't care if this electronic book requirement makes it that much more possible for some students to not get the education they deserve.

[RamboLiberal]

192. Costs may not come down but I also doubt publishers will

support both print & electronic format - especially if costs are cheaper to them which digitized books will be and if big states like CA has already mandated this is the format.

[RamboLiberal]

189. self-delete response wrong post

[WinkyDink]

116. A helluva lot, frankly.

[xphile]

128. Not really. Some people have to buy their textbooks and the 10 dollar e-book savings isn't worth it

to buy a several hundred dollar reader.

[RamboLiberal]

131. Most are now less than 200

And there will be a thriving used market. Public school will probably provide for free.

Google ebook textbooks. There are free books available. Even rent a book or buy just sections of a book market.

[xphile]

135. My accounting books cost more than that. I'm going to pay that for a reader for a mere 10 bucks in

savings on the textbook? No. At least I can sell back the accounting book after the class is done if I'm so inclined or rent the actual textbook from the book store which doesn't require me to purchase yet another electronic gadget I don't really need.

And so far public schools do not provide those things for free. Additionally, I damn sure wouldn't want one of those things to be given to a kid who might break or lose the thing then I'd have to replace it.

They have these handy bags with wheels on them which negates the need to carry heavy books on one's back. That's cheaper than a reader as well and trouble to replace should something happen to it.

[RamboLiberal]

142. Some textbooks I'd like to keep

Accounting. Computer texts for instance.

Ebooks & technology are coming to classrooms and woe will be the schools & students left behind. It's time we provide students with technology & communities with free wifi.

[eilen]

180. While I was in school (K-12)

we were not required to purchase our own textbooks. We were given books for our subjects on loan and returned them at the end of the year. I don't recall having double textbooks. I didn't carry them all to every class, we had desks or lockers to keep them in. We didn't have homework in every class, every night. We also had workbooks in which we copied the problems down in our books and were not allowed to write in them. Other workbooks we could, depending on the class/year/school. I went to many different schools --about 10 or 11 of them as a result of divorce and ping-pong custody. I went to various schools in NY-- upstate NY, Long Island, NJ, and in Pittsburgh. These schools included city, suburban, rural, village, and parochial schools. We were also given lots of worksheets. Of course this was pre-internet, pre-computer. I didn't have a backpack. In one Catholic school I was required to carry a "bookbag" from class to class. Our books were not overlarge--they were generally thinnish compared to the kids textbooks today. Some textbooks were left in the classroom that we would read out of in class and use primarliy in doing classroom work. This was found mostly in English and History type classes. We would copy notes off the board that we would study from at home for tests. We copied our spelling words from the board. Our classwork would be exchanged with another student graded and handed back for future study/tests. I don't know why the kids are required to haul so many books everywhere today. They are also bussed no matter how close they live from school and are not allowed to carry their jackets from class to class (no time to get to lockers) so they don't wear them in the winter. We primarily walked to school and back except when I attended the rural school. That was a very long bus ride and it really was 3 miles uphill both ways.

I think e books would be fine except for the cost and the rate of malfunction, lost power cables, loss, theft etc. Maybe if they were used and kept primarily in the classrooms -- the only way I could see this fitting in with the embarrassed school budgets we have looking forward.

[mia]

26. As both parties work to dismantle the public school system?

Yes, it looks that way to me. I wouldn't be surprised if our country went back to the standard where an eighth grade education is good enough.

[Skink]

13. I remember how contentious it was in 84 when Dartmouth went with the mac.

every student was issued one. Man the world has changed.

[JackRiddler]

49. So? Does this mean every tech introduction is justified?

Should TV programming be aimed at one-year-olds?

Should two-year-olds get a tablet?

Should four-year-olds get a cell phone?

[spin]

96. Why should I have to have dictionary and a encyclopedia by my side ...

while I am reading a fairly technical book?

If a fairly minor character pops up in a novel, I can quickly find who he is by typing in his name and doing a search.

In fact I can search all the content I have on my Kindle for a topic. I currently have 164 different books on my Kindle. Some such as the History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (which cost me $0.99) contain six volumes. http://www.amazon.com/History-Decline-contents-improved-ebook/dp/B0015VSTP6/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1308867151&sr=1-1

If I decide to highlight a section of text on a dead tree book, I have to flip through the book to find the highlight. On the Kindle I can see all my highlights and bookmarks and pick the one I am looking for.

Does it make reading simpler? Yes. Is that bad? Not in my opinion. Many years ago I had to use a pen and paper to find the cube root of 125,035. Now I can just type "cube root (125035)=" into Google search and I learn that it is 50.0046662. Is that bad?

I may be 65 years old but I am not a Luddite.

[RamboLiberal]

100. Kids adapt to technology

Sesame Street. Mr Rogers. And what was that kid's show that had the fundies worried about the purple character being gay? Oh yeah on edit - Tele-Tubbies wasn't it?

Read the story I posted about a 3rd grade teacher who asked for IPads in a grant after seeing how her 2 year old learned from it.

And sadly maybe not by 4 but not too long after they want a cell phone.

[JackRiddler]

110. Kids adapt to everything, yes. None of which is the point.

And kindly stay away from me with strawmen about fundamentalists seeing gay messaging in Teletubbies.

(The evil is in aiming any kind of TV programming, no matter how well-intentioned, at one-year-old children. If the society or the family is so impoverished that this is actually among the better options of how one-year-olds can spend their time, then that indicates a big problem with said society or family, and not an endorsement of TV programming aimed at one-year-olds.)

It's not about any message, it's not about content. It's about media as extensions of ourselves, and ourselves as extensions of media.

[RamboLiberal]

120. Oh good lawd

The baby boomers were climbing out of bed on Saturday mornings to watch Saturday cartoons.

Most of us grew up ok.

So will this wireless texting generation.

Times change. Technology changes. Ways of learning change.

[JackRiddler]

144. "Times change."

No shit, Sherlock.

The question is, who decides? Tech utopians are under the illusion (as a working premise, whether or not they're aware of it) that all tech unfolds in a linear, anonymous fashion. Each stage just follows the last and we all must adapt. This denies that there is any human sovereignty involved in what happens, but in fact there is; just not in the hands of the many but the few. The state of Florida has decided more or less simultaneously to assault teachers' unions and introduce e-books. These are not necessarily related, but they are both examples of human-made decisions. One of them appears inevitable because of "technology," the other is called inevitable because of "fiscal reality." "Technology changes" but not only on its own, it does not dictate. Some get to decide much about the what and how, most have it handed to them.

[JackRiddler]

14. This displays a radical ignorance of the effects of medium on meaning.

The printed book is not the same as the e-book, though the words may be identical. Learning from one is not the same as learning from the other.

[RamboLiberal]

16. Bullcrap - reads the same way to me

Luddites!

[RC]

20. See post #9

There is more to this than meets the eye.

[RamboLiberal]

29. Like hard copies aren't now tailored to biggest buyers

AUSTIN, Tex. — After three days of turbulent meetings, the Texas Board of Education on Friday approved a social studies curriculum that will put a conservative stamp on history and economics textbooks, stressing the superiority of American capitalism, questioning the Founding Fathers’ commitment to a purely secular government and presenting Republican political philosophies in a more positive light.

The vote was 10 to 5 along party lines, with all the Republicans on the board voting for it.

The board, whose members are elected, has influence beyond Texas because the state is one of the largest buyers of textbooks. In the digital age, however, that influence has diminished as technological advances have made it possible for publishers to tailor books to individual states.

In recent years, board members have been locked in an ideological battle between a bloc of conservatives who question Darwin’s theory of evolution and believe the Founding Fathers were guided by Christian principles, and a handful of Democrats and moderate Republicans who have fought to preserve the teaching of Darwinism and the separation of church and state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html

[JackRiddler]

22. I value your erudition.

[RamboLiberal]

33. I just started reading Jack London on my Nook

Call of the Wild and White Fang read exactly the same & I get the same understanding as reading a paper book.

[JackRiddler]

41. Have you read these already in book form?

I can imagine a book I've already read and loved will feel the same on e-book.

Can you imagine a book you haven't read yet might be different depending on the medium, and can you admit that you can't know for sure?

Tell me, do you feel no difference between paper and hardback as an experience? It's not that you can't focus yourself to make it the same, but there is a difference. Of course that's intangible, but it doesn't mean it isn't real or significant.

You would be prepared to say audio books and print are two different media, right? And that the way these are absorbed and retained differs, no? Regardless of which is "better."

[Dappleganger]

52. At the moment I am re-reading American Gods while at the same time

have a brand new copy of the 10th anniversary edition opened up on the table next to my reading chair, along with my original (albeit, dog-eared and beat-up) copy of AG from a decade ago when it was first released. I'm reading through the ebook version to compare and contrast any changes which have been made, in addition to seeing just how quickly it takes me to get through it and how long this new Nook's battery will really last (the latest version, we also own several of the original Nook ereaders).

Quite honestly, it is far easier for this 46 yr. old woman to read and handle the ebook than it is either of the physical books. Being a fast reader, just being able to touch the screen to turn the page makes for a seamless interaction and a faster pace (no slowing down for anything). The ereader is easier for me to hold for a long period of time as it is light and thin, and being able to increase the font on the fly allows me to read w/out glasses if necessary.

Didn't think it was possible a year ago when first using an ereader while going through physical therapy, but this little device allows me to keep an entire library of my choice with me at all times, allowing me to read even more often than before. It also makes it easier to read through several books at once depending upon the mood, and picks up right where I left off even when switching over to my laptop or phone.

BTW, I also love audiobooks but use them for walking or plugging them into our car while on trips. Audio and reading ebooks/pbooks is vastly different. ibooks/pbooks is both based upon visual interaction with minimal touching so IMO they are the same--ebooks makes it a bit easier and more convenient, however.

But there are some books which were meant to be born of a tree...the 10th Anniversary edition of AG is one of them, but you couldn't pry the ebook copy away from me, hehe!

[RamboLiberal]

54. +1 you very much echo my experience

[FLPanhandle]

63. I agree.

I see no difference in my enjoyment experience.

[RamboLiberal]

53. I've been an avid reader all my life

In fact I enjoy more the reading experience of an ebook from the ease of having multiple books always at hand to the ability to reference past material.

How my brain processes I find no difference.

I love having the ability to have all those books with me at all those moments I have 5 or 10 minutes to read some more pages of Jack London, Jeff Shaara historical fiction, Stephen King, non-fiction history or politics, while waiting in a doctor's office, or for my car to be fixed, just before bed, etc.

Get a little bored with a book or just want a different flavor, here's my personal library in my hand.

[pipi_k]

85. Yep...what you said, plus

I never lose my place in a book.

Just tell it to go to the last page read, and there you are. No more lost bookmarks or questions like, "Did I already read this page/chapter?"

My entire library, all on one book sized device.

The only thing that doesn't make me happy is that there are some favorite books I've read over and over again through the years which aren't on the Kindle yet.

So I keep a hardcopy of them, and replace when they get too ragged.

Hopefully someday my favorites will be on the Kindle too.

[RamboLiberal]

86. The cool thing too is I found some interesting works near or over

a century old. For instance a history written by a member of the 28th PA regiment's Civil War history of which my great-grandfather was a member. A history of native Americans in PA. Free to download to my Nook.

[pipi_k]

141. Way cool...yep!! It does help

to have rather off-the-beaten-track reading tastes.

I've found similar stuff for my Kindle.

My ancestors came down from Canada. Some of them were from Algonquin tribes. Some were French Canadian.

I have a few books on the Algonquins and their legends, and some accounts of the voyages of Samuel de Champlain.

And it was all FREE!!! :7

[sunnystarr]

164. Are you serious? (nt)

[pipi_k]

175. Actually he's correct...

Sometimes the Kindle books suffer a bit in the transcription process.

[FLPanhandle]

19. I've never seen a study comparing the difference

Between ereaders and books. Computer screens I can understand, but ereaders are almost like books to the user.

If you have a link to a scientific comparison, please share.

[JackRiddler]

34. A scientific comparison would involve controlled comparisons over many years time.

As with most things hailed as technological progress, they're going to jump into it and call it super, and never look back or try to figure out it if it made a difference.

A scientific study would mean tracking two equivalent samples (classes) controlled to keep as many variables as possible similar, one with textbooks, the other with e-books, over years and years. This is the opposite of how things are now done in education. Everything has to be budget-justifed now. Such studies will come in 20 years time if some systems don't make the switch, and it will be impossible to be definitive, too many variables will have been in play.

I think there is an obvious difference, and go ahead and say the consequences are unknown or surely negligible. Each textbook is a separate object and different size and texture demanding its own attention. Each textbook is a different frame to the material. The e-book is always the same object, same texture, same frame. How you read through one frame as opposed to the other, especially how you learn from them, will differ.

That it's always the same frame for all texts may be very significant, but again, how is this going to be studied and who's going to finance the study and who's going to wait 10 years for credible results to come in?

There is of course the obvious matter that the e-book (or computer) allows 94 extra distractions from sticking to a single text until you've actually read it. This point should hardly need to be made! Some may say, "well show discipline about it," but we're talking about schoolchildren!

Plus texts designed for the e-book are going to incorporate superfluous distractions, animations, flash bullshit, etc. etc. Texts will not be picked on the basis of their quality but on how well they play on the e-book medium. The fact that a pie chart is animated will make it look better, even if the feature is superfluous. The book without the animated pie chart will be considered relatively deficient, even if it's the better book.

I think this difference in experience is perfectly obvious to anyone who reads novels in book form as opposed to an e-book, but what am I going to do about it when all these smart technically addicted people (I'm one of them!) express denial and claim there is no difference, it's just my feeling? In a world where music and sports and arts have all been declared as frivolous superfluities to education, how is the texture of how one experiences a work of literature going to be a factor in making budget decisions involving billions of dollars and millions of students?

The e-book is also going to encourage continuous centralized changes to curriculum and new surveillance technologies, you can be certain. Education authorities will become even more intrusive as editors and censors than ever before. Fads will solidify into reality, every year will have a different frivolous flavor.

As for surveillance: How much time spent reading? How much time per page? Did the student go through all pages of the homework? If google attempts to track your personality just by where you hover, collecting 57 data points about each search, they or a similar firm will soon be offering such applications to the country's education departments, complete with pseudo-scientific benchmarks for reading significance into the results.

Plus, see Post 9!

[FLPanhandle]

61. Okay, but without any science, we are left with emotions and "well, it's just obvious"

Emotions and "well, it's just obvious" isn't reliable and never has been.

As for technology changes, I usually see two emotional reactions:
1) It's new & different, therefore it's great.
2) It's new & different, therefore it's bad or scary.

Emotional reactions don't sway me.

So in my best Joe Friday "Just the facts, ma'am'", what do we KNOW:

1) ereaders reduce the amount of weight the kids have to carry to/from school.
2) ereaders allow cheaper books; printing, binding, storing, and distributing books is more expensive.
3) ereaders have features such as easy word definition lookup, work/phrase search, personal note pages, etc.

We don't know if they are better or worse tools for learning.

Everything else is just emotional fear.

I use an iPad for books as I travel a good bit for work, I see no difference in distractions, emotional connection with novels, or need for a different texture to enjoy a book.

[RamboLiberal]

66. +1 Well said

May I add the fear of the technology, corporate, ideology masters. But the technology may also be freeing in that it will be much easier to self-publish & for school districts not to be at the mercy of the big textbook buyer ideologues like RW Texas. Publishers can more easily tailor an ebook textbook to the ideology of the school district.

[JackRiddler]

68. As it was obvious you would say: Since testing is a pain, just implement the new tech...

without even asking the questions, since they can't be readily answered.

The lack of knowledge as to the consequences should be a reason for caution, not to pretend that there are therefore no consequences.

Science means actual observation and comparison under controlled circumstances.

Since it's "impractical" to find out what if anything is inside the box (the unknown consequences of changing the primary medium by which taught texts are conveyed), except by expensive procedures that will last years and may not have conclusive results (and will therefore not be done), you're jumping to the scientifically unsupported conclusion that there must be nothing there. (But hey, it takes science to make an Ipad, so science must be for it.)

But as I said, I don't expect any traction with this. Most everyone is always for the new thing and selectively treat the history of technology as nothing but one wonderful thing after the next. Most everyone is very quick to treat hesitation about the next new thing reflexively with calls of "luddite" and the like.

[FLPanhandle]

74. However, not implementing new technology with known benefits just because of fear

Is not logical either.

In this case we have KNOWN benefits. We have no KNOWN consequences.

So we can either wait for years afraid to take advantage of the benefits, or we can benefit now. I disagree the studies won't be done. They'll be done, that's just science.

As for the statement about "selectively treat the history of technology as nothing but one wonderful thing after the next", you are doing the same thing in reverse.

[JackRiddler]

78. It's not "fear" so don't label me with loaded words that I did not use. Thanks.

Caution is logical, given radically different media.

And these two media are radically different, on the face of it. The words can be the same, the medium carrying them is completely other. That doesn't automatically mean one is good and the other is bad.

Yes, of course studies will be done. Twenty years later, whatever the results, there will still be debate, since without controlled circumstances these studies' outcomes will necessarily be debatable, possibly inconclusive. In the meantime, how will it matter? Everyone will be learning all subjects off the single unitary display machine that glows, animates and hyperlinks and bounces, and tracks its users. Most of those doing the studies will have grown up on these, only their elders will remember otherwise and be considered Luddite if they're too nostalgic.

And you know the user-tracking is guaranteed. How that machine is used by each student will generate centrally tabulated performance and also psychological profiles, as pseudo-scientific and inherently intrusive as those will be.

[FLPanhandle]

82. So why is caution logical?

There is no science, there is no known consequences, there are known benefits.

So, what's your recommendation? Do we put off the benefits 20 years for studies that you already concede will probably be "inconclusive"?

As for "you know the user-tracking is guaranteed", no I do not. If people want to do that, then that's a fight worth fighting. I'm not fighting e-readers because someone MIGHT one day want to do this.

When do you suggest implementing the technology?

[JackRiddler]

99. When do I suggest implementing the technology?

Not every technology needs to be implemented. In an ideal world -- which I know no one cares what I think -- televisions should be divorced from places where children grow up. They shouldn't see any of that shit before they're six, when their brains are at least mostly developed. (I didn't do so badly on that with my own kid. Now he watches as much shit as he likes, but I can see the fucking difference in his attention span for having avoided early damage, compared to kids who were wrapped in an electronic screen-womb from birth.)

Advertising aimed at children should be banned. Certainly they shouldn't get cell phones before adulthood, and as for the long-term studies on the health effects, those are coming in now and they don't look good.

An aim in school should be that as many children as possible can and want to pick up single books and read them right through, giving full attention, developing a capacity to work through boredom, work to understand things, make sudden discoveries.

Tenth grade is about the right time to introduce computers in a school environment. Computers are vastly overrated as learning tools; they are, however, good as tools of control and as a means to disempower teachers and centralize curricula. Computer fetishism is a product of our time, given that we're still very early in the computer age. We treat them as the answer to everything.

But anyway, I have no say, so enjoy the utopia of perpetually new tech in place of just having more teachers and paying them better and offering the full set of traditional courses and activities (sports, arts, music, languages) in the schools.

Just understand: the use of school-provided e-book units is never going to become widespread without corporations like Google and Microsoft and Apple, in tandem with Corporate Ed providers, moving in to offer monitoring and diagnostic software that will produce profiles based on reading habits, time per page, pages scanned, features used, gestures, and a thousand other data points that can be gathered. These will be sold as the right guides for individual teaching, they will have benchmarks on many scales for activating interventions of various kinds or determining who has what skills or disabilities and so forth. As with the other aspects of education deform to date, this software will be offered, and it will be bought, and it will be used, and barely anyone is going to fart in resistance to it.

.

[FLPanhandle]

104. So when you suggested "being cautious", you really meant, "don't ever do it"

As for 10th grade as the "right time to introduce computers in the school environment", I assume you have no science around that either. Just another "gut feeling", huh?

Also, nice try in the setting up the false choice of e-readers vs. paying teachers better and offering traditional courses. :rofl: That tactic is used when the debater have nothing of substance left.

Sure, you aren't afraid, but you finish with a fear mongering paragraph. Again, another fail.

Sorry, but your posts are nothing but fear mongering and lack of evidence along with a statement to never implement new technology regardless of the documented benefits.

Not very persuasive.

[JackRiddler]

108. You are to cease and desist sticking words in my mouth.

"Gut feeling" is you talking, not me. I have described in empirical terms what the differences in the media are. I've said we can't now know the difference in educational outcomes, but the differences in how books as opposed to e-books work and are received are plainly obvious and tactile.

Certainly I am not against science and this is another falsehood about my thinking that you are now throwing in from left field. Kindly keep your words out of my mouth!

Grade-school science hardly requires computers to be taught. That's computer fetishism talking. Science produced computers and professional science needs them, but it doesn't mean it's more "scientific" to use them in every context. Watching and drawing plants and birds is a better science activity for fourth graders than reading some Corporate Ed multimedia text about it.

The point is that computers can overdefine, hinder or limit learning. They put it increasingly in the hands of remote programmers. And it's very naive to think that software and learning programs are not in fact being put into competition with the traditional role of teachers. Teachers are becoming adjuncts to syllabi-as-algorithms and diagnostics devised by Corporate Ed consultancies.

I've said I don't expect to persuade you of anything or to have any impact with my ideas here, and I've stayed civil. You should examine just what causes you to react so emotionally and personally. It may be you are far more invested in the tech utopian dreams than you realize.

Otherwise I hope anyone reading your childish and crude mischaracterizations of what I write is at least going to read my own posts and decide for themselves what I'm saying.

[Curmudgeoness]

98. For a school district, implementing new technology

too soon can have consequences. I remember a time when the best and newest technology was Beta players for Beta tapes. At about the same time along came VHS players and tapes. They were inferior, but for whatever reason, the VHS won the battle. People who ran out and got the best new technology were left with Beta players that were useless since the tapes disappeared.

This is one reason I now sit back and wait to see how the new technology plays out before making a move on it. Another reason to wait is pricing, and we all have seen products that were hundreds of dollars go down to $30-50.

Another issue is how much the textbook updates will cost in the future. As more schools move toward e-books, there could be an escalation in costs for the books and the updates. Every new technology has consequences. But it often takes time for those consequences to be seen. My motto is that there is nothing wrong with being cautious with progress, but there is often a problem associated with jumping into things just for the sake of progress.

[JackRiddler]

101. Textbook updates, there's another one...

I can imagine annual or semi-annual update packages and corrections will install themselves and maybe inform the teacher about adapting. Another way to keep the teacher on a treadmill. Because teachers should not be figuring out anything about their own courses.

[RamboLiberal]

102. Ummm you know you aren't tied to one device

And many if not most ebooks are across multiple platforms. How long to you want kids who are geared to a different way of learning wait?

[Curmudgeoness]

153. What I am saying is that new technology costs a lot

and gets cheaper (more affordable) over time. If an individual wants to buy the latest technology, I say "go for it" because you will fuel the market and bring the price down for the rest of us. But when a school is looking at spending taxpayer dollars (which are in short supply right now), I think that it is prudent to give the technology time to sort itself out and come down in price.

Kids will not stop learning just because they don't have the latest technologies. Give them a slate and chalk and a school marm and they can learn. You make is sound like without the most up to date gadgets, no one can learn.

[FLPanhandle]

105. Sure technology changes.

However, the schools that had beta players , those children had the opportunity to watch documentaries and individual video lessons while the beta machines were in service. The children in the schools that were waiting around, didn't get those materials.

The fact that technology changes isn't a reason to not do something. It should be based on is there a benefit to providing the technology. Because even the schools that waited around for VHS had to change when DVD's came along.

[RamboLiberal]

106. +1

Heck why have separate grades. Let's go back to one room schools.

[Curmudgeoness]

155. The schools that had beta players wasted a lot of money

(taxpayer money). Individuals who want to have the newest devices can individually buy them. That is their decision. And I know people like that. They often have the money to afford it, sometimes they have the credit to afford it.

And I do believe that waiting to see which product rises to the top and which one disappears is practical when using money from taxpayers, many of them unable to afford all these newest gadgets. And as to VHS changing to DVD, that took decades. The beta demise took a couple of years at best. And schools that changed to DVD when it hit the market spent a large amount of money on something that was minimal within a couple of years.

[Peacetrain]

23. kind of like hand illustrations vs computer illustrations.. there is a difference

computer illustrations can be almost perfect, but they lack a depth that hand illustrations have..something that plays to the human eye. Not a 3D quality, but a specific depth.

[JackRiddler]

38. And the difference to the person doing the drawing is enormous.

A child up to the elbows in fingerpaint running it over different surfaces and folding these in on each other in real spatial dimensions is developing different, more numerous and greater facilities than a child interacting with modularized, digitized, numbered colors and forms via a trackball. Not that the latter skill isn't a specialty that should be taught at some later stage of an education in art.

[WinkyDink]

117. You must not have seen a modern h.s. textbook: every page is a visual mess.

Regarding Classic lit: please. There is nothing sacred to a kid about a paperback "Macbeth." Picture a bent spine, torn cover, lost pages, warped from rain, etc.

[RamboLiberal]

132. Hah you got that right!

[sunnystarr]

24. Been wondering why it's taking so long

to make the switch. It's just about impossible for kids to fit all their textbooks into a backback along with their notebooks. The weight endangers their health. For those concerned about what can be changed in a textbook - the content now isn't always great or accurate and the content is regulated under the contract between school and publshers.

A Kindle is just over $100 now and I imagine a contract with a school district would lower that to around $75/unit. This could easily be a school supply that parents pay for. If your child loses one textbook you're looking at $65+. Anyone losing their device would be responsible for replacing it - no different than it is now with textbooks. You can bookmark and highlight all you want in a Kindle and I imagine the Nook is the same.

Why are we so late in getting all schools on board?

[MineralMan]

32. Only $10 cheaper?

OK, let's look at that. Let's say each kid has six schoolbooks during the year. I suspect that's a low number, but let's look at that. That's a $60 savings for that child alone. 30 children per classroom, say, comes to $1800 per classroom per year. Now, like paper textbooks, these can be used for more than one year. Let the reader stay with the grade, rather than with the child, all preloaded with the materials. No book storage. No book distribution. The books are already there on the reader. No problem there in paying for the readers, when bought in bulk. So, let's say we have 500 children in a single school, each saving $60 per year....that comes to $30,000 in textbook savings per school. And never mind that the kids aren't carrying a backpack full of books around with them, etc, etc.

I see some real advantages to this idea, even at only $10 per book savings. Now, let's imagine that the school's library is also based on e-books. Oh, there are lots and lots of advantages here. As this expands, I believe the savings will be more than $10 per book. Publisher's costs will go down as well if they're not handling printing, warehousing, and other nonsense.

[One_Life_To_Give]

37. Easier to correct history books

Easier to change correct history books. Let everyone know that the Scopes trial was about the Gay Agenda and tearing down American exceptionalism.:sarcasm:

[bvar22]

58. Don't forget about Paul Revere warning the British,

and Adam & Eve riding dinosaurs.

[bvar22]

46. That would make Winston Smith's job so much easier!

The Records Department of the Ministry of Truth would have an instant, digital Memory Hole.

[mia]

50. The present education "ministers" must be giddy as they

consider the possibilities.

[RamboLiberal]

62. Or maybe they are scared at the ease of liberal districts

not locked down by the RW ideology of Texas and the ease this will make of self-publishing.

[Terry in Austin]

71. Old saying: the best educational technology is a log

A log where you sit a teacher on one end and a student on the other.

[JackRiddler]

79. The new idea is to have the log roll them both flat if they don't meet arbitrary numbers.

[Terry in Austin]

83. A whole new take on log-rhythms!

<Sorry>

x(

[JackRiddler]

89. Ha, that's pretty funny in an esoteric kind of way.

[spin]

72. I have a hard time reading dead tree books since I got my Kindle ...

the dictionary and search features by themselves make the Kindle indispensable.

[RamboLiberal]

81. +1 same with my Nook

[JackRiddler]

90. Maybe this isn't all a good thing, having a hard time with a discipline that once came easily?

Dictionary and search features (and the option of instant switch to other material) are part of what alters the experience. What was once more linear and complete, is now more like a jazz of your own choices. The book no longer owns you for the time you read it, and that's not always a good thing. I think Dickens and Tolstoy and even Steven King and J.K. Rowling should be allowed to do that, to command attention, not to expect that you get to switch and have all your questions answered instantly.

Maybe, while looking up a word you didn't know in a novel or poem, you're actually missing something about the full experience of taking it in for the first time as a continuous whole, even if you didn't absorb the meaning of all of its words. Maybe that's the faster way to learn non-fiction topics, though not necessarily to retain them.

Understand that this isn't saying one is better or worse: rather, they are different media that may have advantages in different contexts. The frame, the texture, the way it's taken in, the train of thought, these matter and these differ. I don't know an e-book reader is the better way for fifth graders to learn algebra, or read the Gettysburg Address.

[RamboLiberal]

103. Even Rowling caved and is putting Harry Potter on to ebooks

According to the announcement video -- which isn't exactly much to go on -- J.K. Rowling promises that Pottermore will be a new, safe way to read the books that will take input from the fans and expand the universe in "an online reading experience unlike anything other." In the press release, it mentions that there will be activities that coincide with reading the books online, like getting sorted into a house or picking a wand based on the reader's preferences.

However, as the Guardian mentions, this also sounds like a way to expand the fan fiction universe by allowing the online reader to integrate themselves into the book. Some Reddit users are going so far to call it a MMO fan fiction experience. The question remains if users will be able to write their own fan fiction. If they go this route, hopefully, it will be collected into official books belonging to the wizarding world. (Not that I'm interesting in contributing, I just, uh, know some people who might be.)

The digital generation can finally enjoy these books

The biggest news about Pottermore is that the "Harry Potter" books will finally be available in e-book form. J.K. Rowling has cut out the middle man, and is guaranteed to reap the profits of the digital book sales as faithful fans and new readers purchase these much more portable versions of the books so they don't have to lug around a 700-page hardcover book.




Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20073760-10391715.html#ixzz1Q8wmXPGS

[JackRiddler]

109. Interesting that you say "caved." The rest of this post just confirms the reality...

E-books and print books are not the same medium, not the same experience, and should not be expected to produce the same outcomes (whether good or bad).

[RamboLiberal]

111. I said caved because she wasn't a believer in ebooks

IMHO this will only enhance the experience for readers of Harry Potter.

You know I bet even "The Bard" would've embraced the technology as he saw how it would enhance the enjoyment of his works.

[JackRiddler]

112. Yeah, because who could really enjoy Shakespeare without the e-book enhancements?

[RamboLiberal]

121. Many of us

Frankly in HS The Bard put me & most of my 60's class to sleep.

Sure made a fortune though for Cliff Notes or for the 1968 Romeo and Juliet movie.

Imagine in HS now the book being interactive to explain that Old World English.

[JackRiddler]

133. I'm imagining...

and it won't make a blessed difference.

A teacher who can direct a bit of in-class theater for the purpose of gaining an understanding of the text as spoken, helping kids to get the flow even if not every word is understood, would make and always has made the difference.

But anyway, learning Shakespeare properly was a high point in my high school education, and anything but boring. If it's boring, an e-book ain't gonna help.

[RamboLiberal]

140. Shakespeare isn't everyone's cup of tea

Or Charles Dickens for that matter. Nor is that the teacher's fault. It can be damn dry just reading that Old English at night without a means of comprehending. Now imagine you have interactive capability to explain. Ability to google. Interact with fellow students outside the classroom on the assignment as you sit at home doing the assignment. Watch a video of actors doing the scene. That is what the technology will allow.

When did I start to appreciate Shakespeare? Or Dickens for that matter? Oh a little 80's TV show with an actor born to read poetry.

And I don't blame my teachers. In the same class I much more appreciated more modern classics like To Kill a Mockingbird.

[JackRiddler]

146. And e-books won't change that.

All of the supposed advantages and options you attribute to them have already existed -- google, the dictionary, students working together on assignments, film adaptations. That's what the technology has allowed for many years, or even forever. The question is whether the paper books in all that should be replaced by programmable e-books with built-in syllabi and all the interactions pretty much defined by the software (because that's where it's going to go: school systems will give these out with the approved content locked in).

[RamboLiberal]

149. Stay in the 20th century then

I don't think you will find many under 50 with you.

[JackRiddler]

152. This is the argumentative equivalent of "Move to Russia."

So maybe you're the one who's still in the 20th century -- modes of thinking perhaps being a touch more important than being coversant with the latest gadgetry.

When you shift to that trope, you've shown, not necessarily that you've lost the argument, but that you're at an impasse to even understand it. You don't want to comprehend the concept that different media alter content and you definitely don't want to acknowledge the new control and surveillance and conditioning modalities that the electronic schoolroom will afford and apply to teachers and pupils alike. So you lash out with a cheap insult and scarf off.

And not only am I under 50 but I've been following the tech utopianism critically and seeing it fail on its promised solutions and generate whole new problems and stressors for people since I was younger than you. The world is not a better place now that everyone talks with their thumbs and watches wee screens on the street, instead of the other people.

So it may not be as much about age as you're trying to make it, my hipster of Generation I.

[RamboLiberal]

158. Actually I wonder if you really are stuck in the 19th century

I predict in 10 years paper textbooks will mostly be a memory. Probably the same for newly published books. Will go the way of cassette tapes & VCR's etc. Ereaders will be gone as well. We will be down to 1 or 2 devices for all our communications.

[JackRiddler]

160. Late 18th, actually: Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite, and the promise of democracy.

I'm sure you've moved past those old chestnuts. Just wait for The Algorithm to tell you what comes next.

[spin]

115. We differ. I also would like to see history taught using interactive computer simulations ...

such as my grandchildren enjoy in World of Warcraft. Imagine challenging a student with a virtual quest in Ancient Rome where he could walk down the streets in a simulation of the city and interact with the inhabitants, attend an event in the Colosseum and enter the Roman Senate and talk with the members. He would learn far more than he would by reading a chapter in a history book.

Our educational system is a sad failure and the fact that our students lack knowledge, especially about history, may doom our nation. It's not the fault of the teachers by any means but there is no doubt that students find school boring. Blackboards and lectures by a teacher might have worked for my generation in the 50s and 60s but we need to move our educational system into the current century.

If a person like Washington Irving's character Rip Van Winkle, who had been educated prior to the Civil War, woke up today after a very long sleep, he would be overwhelmed by modern technology until he walked into a classroom. He would look at the teacher, the students and the chalkboard and he would immediately know he was in a school.

I was uncertain how I would feel about using a Kindle to read but I've owned mine for over six months. I bought it because I was running out of space for new books. It has proved to be one of the best purchases that I've made in recent years. It does have some drawbacks. I find that the regular Kindle is a little small for illustrations and maps and of course the Kindle is only black and white. My computer proves useful when I want larger illustrations or color maps.

I just finished reading an excellent trilogy about the civil war, "Gods and Generals / The Killer Angels / The Last Full Measure "by Jeff and Michael Shaara. Let me assure you that these books thoroughly "owned" me although I read them on a Kindle. The dictionary and the search features actually enhanced the reading experience.

Of course, people differ. You may not enjoy using a Kindle or Nook. Since they are not all that expensive I would suggest that if you don't own one give one a try. You might be pleasantly surprised.

[RamboLiberal]

123. +1 you are mirroring me Spin

I read Killer Angels back when it was first published. Read Last Full Measure from a well worn paperback. On my Nook I then read Shaara's WWII trilogy. Just started his Revolutionary war novel & his new WWII novel on the last year of the Pacific war.

Also reading Gods & Generals at the same time I'm reading Shelby Foote's first civil war book on the Nook. When I finish I intend to order Killer Angels to savor for my third time.

Yep the downside is illustrations.

Oh goodness imagine how Ben Franklin would've just loved & been fascinated by this technology! Or Da Vinci.

[spin]

182. I recently watched the movie 'Gettysburg" which was based on 'The Killer Angels' ...

it was worth watching although I personally felt Martin Sheen's performance as General Robert E. Lee was less than stellar. I envision Lee as a more charismatic leader.

Technology and its uses are fascinating. Imagine the difference in results at Gettysburg if Lee and his generals had had walkie talkies.

[JackRiddler]

139. We definitely do.

What you describe in your first paragraph is not learning history, but receiving a fictional adaptation. It will make a good movie, but woe if that's going to be the whole lesson.

The problem with history teaching especially is a political problem, and interactive adaptations (generally by programmers and entertainers rather than historians) aren't going to change a thing. The problem is that narrative and systemic history that relates to our real circumstances and all the twists and turns of how we got here is pretty much forbidden. We have a group of truncated, separated always affirmative episodes about how great this country is and how much better things keep getting. Or else!

You wrote:

"If a person like Washington Irving's character Rip Van Winkle, who had been educated prior to the Civil War, woke up today after a very long sleep, he would be overwhelmed by modern technology until he walked into a classroom. He would look at the teacher, the students and the chalkboard and he would immediately know he was in a school."

So? How do you know this is a bad thing? Another example might be that he would see mothers breast-feeding infants, just like in his time, rather than machines doing that job (in most cases). Most people also still fall in love and make love in ways he'd recognize. Many still sing with their throats, too. Must elementary learning be that different from the "log with a teacher on one end and a student on the other" that he might also recognize? Do you think there's nothing in the world that can't be improved by the addition of circuitry?

By the way, it's not my personal objection to the medium per se. Not at all. I am certain I will enjoy an Ipad, and will have one sooner or later. (The Kindle is way too small to me, sorry.) However, I also understand that the two, print book and e-book are different media. That doesn't mean one is superior necessarily in all contexts. But they are self-evidently different in the way senses are engaged, words are received, and perhaps ultimately absorbed.

[spin]

154. I would be interested in how you would improve our school system ...

Let's focus on the worst subject which is history.

Who are we? How just 13% of America's high school students know their U.S. history
Last updated at 9:21 PM on 14th June 2011

They say that to know where you're going, you should know where you come from.

In that case, America's high school students are in trouble.

Just 13 per cent appear to know anything about U.S. history, according to the test dubbed the Nation's Report Card, released today.

The other 87 per cent of high school seniors who took the 2010 National Assessment of Educational Progress showed a less than solid academic performance in the subject.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2003587/Just-13-Americas-high-school-students-know-US-history.html#ixzz1Q9LB5LYo

[JackRiddler]

169. Do you seriously believe e-books will improve the state of the schools significantly?

Come on, really?

If you want my utopian laundry list, here's the incredibly unlikely to ever be implemented set of proposals that I routinely brainstorm. (Might as well write it down some time.)

THROW MONEY AT THE PROBLEM. Treat it like it's one of your damned wars.

1) Food comes first. Offer two warm meals to everyone at the school, no means test, plus fruit snacks, every day. (Obviously no vending machines.) Buy local-regional and organic as much as possible. (This becomes the new agricultural subsidy program, and the federal government should pick up the full tab.) Assign a nearby garden to every school where students can grow a bit of food for use at that school.

2) Keep all schools open as youth and meeting and extracurricular activity centers for the school's students until evenings, with sufficient staff for activities, security, cleaning, etc. Another item that should be fully financed nationwide by the federal government.

3) Multiple sports and gym options offered to all students every morning; they can choose what to play among the organized activities on offer and are encouraged to organize what they like best, but all with adequate adult staff.

4) Arts, music and a foreign language from an early grade are understood to be as core and as essential as English and math. (Again, the role of the federal government is to stop wasting it on empire and throw a large fraction of that at the schools to make sure more than enough of all of this is financed -- which would still be a lot less than maintaining the empire!)

5) Most important measure of all, by far: Hire enough teachers of everything everywhere so that no class is above 15 students. All teacher salaries raised, everywhere, across the board, to be competitive with comparably qualified jobs in the private sector and draw talented people. (There should still be specific education requirements, but people should be allowed to pick those up once hired. A B.A. related to the subject taught is the minimum.) This is another cost for the federal government to pick up in full, by cutting it out of the military budgets.

Note about the following: Do I hate creationists? Sure. I think a central national curriculum is bound to cause more problems. I think centralization and the bureaucracies it generates are a worse disservice to the children. So you'll have to just allow that in some places, the community will have fucked up priorities...

6) A system of weighted voting is devised whereby the teachers, parents and locals choose a school principal for set terms. Principals choose a minimum of administrators. All administrators including principal must teach at least one full course (three to five lessons) per week. Teaching is the primary profession of schools, teachers are the conditional sovereigns.

7) Allow teachers to combine subjects where it makes sense. Most usefully to be done with literature, theater and history (to answer your question). E.g., novels and plays and other works to be synced up with period under study in history. Science lessons can swing with math or history too. Two or more teachers can devise combined classes. Same thread runs through several classes. 45-minute periods break down.

8) All adults should learn to be kinder and show more respect to teachers as a class! Away with all the silly resentment about their supposedly cushy work conditions. When they do their job right, they are performers and it's exhausting.

9) So what about those "bad teachers"? I submit there are less of them than the current "reform" hype claims, and that there will be less of them with work and salary conditions improved for teachers across the board. I submit also that more actively enrolling teachers in the evaluation of their fellows, in combination with administrators and outside evaluators from the school system, will make teachers far more willing to accept the disciplinary and expulsion measures in cases when necessary.

I understand this is a model for the mainstream. I don't have the experience to know what's best in matters of special ed, for example. Vocational education in tune with real world job needs should be offered from 10th grade on for all who don't intend to follow a higher academic path. There are a 100,000 questions not covered above, obviously.

Hell, in the course of this thread I've even come to like the introduction of e-books insofar as they offer a chance for districts to more cheaply choose better curricula and not be ruled by the Texas standards! My biggest problem with them (media theory aside) is the high likelihood of how they will be deployed in the current regime of "educational reform" -- as central mechanisms of evaluation, surveillance and control over teachers, pupils and curricula.

.

[mia]

171. Great ideas, especially when it comes to improving nutrition and sports programs.

Also,combining subjects is a more interesting and practical way to help deliver instruction. There's no reason why the 3R's can't be taught through History, Science, Art and Music.

When I ignore my reservations about e-books being implemented for the wrong reasons, I believe that they could significantly improve learning for many students - especially as they address individual needs. Within any given grade level the range of abilities can be vast. In a group of third graders you can find students who can't read and others who are reading on an adult level.

Students who have mastered 3rd grade skills can move on to higher levels while the ones who need one-on-one help can be brought up to speed. This will work as long as they keep the student/teacher ratio low enough. With more computers in the classroom students at both extremes can benefit through exploration and collaboration.

I imagine that behavior problems would go down too if all students could be fully engaged and making progress. Low achieving students could remain with their peers rather than feeling like failures as they are demoted to lower grades. Advanced students would enjoy being able to further explore a topic.

[JackRiddler]

176. Thank you. How such technologies will be used and whether they are good or bad...

depends entirely on the schools' ends and means and social organization. Holding up any introduction of a technology as per-se desirable or as a solution to the problems of the schools ignores that, and is at best naive. As things now stand with most urban public schools, like in New York City, where security regimes prevail on the ground, budgets are shrinking, educational ideas are treated as naive, and all the "reform" energy is about centralized evaluation of measurable outcomes, such tech assuming it is even be introduced (initial expense) will be pressed into the service of monitoring and controlling students, centralizing and enforcing the state's curricular demands, and helping to render teachers superfluous. That's not in the tech, it's in the system as it is currently developing, and only proposals that address the larger system can change that.

[spin]

181. Thanks for the reply ...

It was well thought out and I agree with the majority of the ideas and you proposed and several I had never thought of.

The Kindle and Nook platforms may not be the best choice for schools as they are limited in their versatility. My son in law favors issuing students a small laptop.

I agree that moving to a different platform might stop the influence that Texas standards exerts on text books nationwide.

My two grandsons have had the unfortunate experience of having to go to a "D" rated high school system in Florida. School choices are limited in the rural area of Florida where we moved to. In a "D" rated system, the number of bad teachers outnumber the good teachers and it is hard to attract quality teachers to our area. The good ones often move on to more attractive areas.

Before we moved to this area, my grandsons had attended high rated schools and were excellent students, but this school system has failed to challenge them and now they hate school. My daughter, who sometimes works as a substitute teacher, decided to pull my eldest grandson out of school when he was sixteen and he got his GED quickly in less than two months. We now hope to send him to a local community college with a far better learning environment.

You might consider posting your reply as an OP. It should provoke a very interesting thread.

[JackRiddler]

183. "D" schools and "bad teachers..."

Could be that better teachers get to avoid the "D" schools. (A rating system ends up cementing the status, if it wasn't D before it becomes D once it's announced and no one wants to go there.) Many changes are no doubt required, but the big one is a bit too obvious for politicians to mention, because it involves raising teachers' salaries radically. Capitalism is supposed to be the only thing that motivates people to work hard and achieve (not true but that's our mythology), except when the logic should be applied to giving competitive salaries for teachers so that more people choose that profession instead of banking or some other bullshit.

Anyway, thanks much for your reply! I think I will re-post that.

[RamboLiberal]

84. Education evolves for the ‘iGeneration’

The day will come when today’s students talk about heavy backpacks like grandparents talk about trekking to school in the snow.

With the introduction of iPads into third-grade classrooms at the elementary school, the Millstone community has seen a glimpse of this future.

“Technology is the future of education, and the iPad is a device like nothing else on the market,” third-grade teacher Jennifer Kohn said. “It is poised to change the learning landscape for our children and … gives the students of Millstone an advantage in the areas of technology, scholastic advancement and literacy.”

Recognizing that today’s students are growing up in a world dictated by the use of state-of-art technologies and inspired by what her 2-year-old daughter learned to do with an iPad at home, Kohn applied for and received a grant from the Millstone Township Foundation for Educational Excellence to purchase 15 iPads for the third-grade language arts classes to improve student literacy.

-----

Most e-books and apps are free at this time, but others cost $1-$4 each, Kohn said. A teacher pays for an app once and then has the ability to install it on all of the iPads in her class, she said.

http://examiner.gmnews.com/news/2011-06-23/Front_Page/Education_evolves_for_the_iGeneration.html

A professor at Newman University is telling his students to go online instead of cracking the books open.

Dr. David Shubert of Newman University is writing a new textbook for his organic chemistry students. But it's not a traditional textbook. He's writing an electronic one.

"I think ebooks are the wave of the future," he said. "They offer more versatility, they can do more things than a static text."

-----

He says that the e-book will be filled with videos, weblinks to articles and even quizzes.

http://articles.kwch.com/2011-06-16/e-books_29668049

Ireland:

Next September will see 90 first year students in St Colman’s College, Claremorris being part of what can only be considered the dawn of the digital classroom. The school has decided to swap school books in favour of the Apple iPad tablet. The programme will be phased into use later this year and all first year students will be given the option of purchasing an Apple iPad instead of their course books.

The decision to move ahead with the new technology was taken after many weeks of consultation between staff, students and parents. Jimmy Finn, principal of St Colman’s, said there was strong support for the move and they were pleased to be pioneers in the field. It is understood the cost per student over a three year spell will be in the region of €700. This €700 will include the device and a suite of apps specifically designed for schooling.
The switch will enable students to download ebooks and also avail of many related facilities in the self-directed learning field. It will also mean an end to the often very heavy schoolbags that they carry around with them.

The school has agreed a deal with the local Credit Union and anyone wishing to avail of a loan offer for the iPad will be facilitated. The deal will have low rate loans of about €23 permonth available to any family purchasing the iPad. The programme however is not mandatory and all pupils will be given the option to retain books over the iPad.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12889:dawn-of-digital-classroom-for-st-colmans&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

Imagine learning a language even just learning to read. Your ebook could say the word, look up the word, etc.

[mia]

88. Thanks for the information.

Looks like I'll need an iPad to suppliment my hands-on approach to teaching.

[JackRiddler]

114. I'm so glad the corporations have successfully branded their new generation of consumer units.

[RamboLiberal]

124. Actually this medium is going to open up the market

to more than the big publishers & well-known best selling authors. It will be much easier to self-publish.

[JackRiddler]

130. That would have been the Internet, and the result...

was very good in many ways, but included the fact that we're all self-publishers now, and content farms pay some pittance per piece if they pay at all, and even the mighty New York Times can't afford copy editors, judging by the proliferation of errors and typos.

But anyway, you are HIGHLY mistaken if you think I've got a problem with the e-book medium per se and in all cases. I look forward to one day having me one of those Ipads.

My point i that e-books and print books are different media with different means of reception, different faculties at work, and no doubt different ways that a work ultimately works on the reader-recipient. It's not a controversial idea in media theory but clearly gets tech utopians worked up.

[RamboLiberal]

136. Difference maybe in your mind not in mine

Like I said I've been an avid reader since I plowed through the grade school readers the first week at home of each semester. And read every comic I could get my hands on with a flashlight under the covers.

The ereader I have greatly enhances my personal reading pleasure & ability to enjoy a book.

I've probably read more books since I got my Nook in the past year + than at any time in my life.

Personally I find no difference in comprehension or retention or enjoyment between reading a book on paper or a ebook.

And the technology improves I believe my enjoyment & learning will be even greater.

[RamboLiberal]

91. You can even rent ebook textbooks

Digital textbooks are becoming more popular with students and universities as paper textbooks cost more and can be cumbersome to carry around everywhere. Below is a list of free textbook websites and digital textbook retailers. Also, make sure to check this earlier post about getting free ebooks from libraries, since there are a lot of options for downloading digital textbooks from schools and universities.

http://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2010/06/09/etextbooks-10-websites-for-digital-textbooks-academic-books/

And there are free textbooks as well.

[mia]

119. Thanks for the link.

I have a lot to learn.

[Shagbark Hickory]

92. Saves trees and good for the planet.

PRobably not so great for jobs.

[MadHound]

122. Consume rare earths, leech out heavy metals, and consume energy, not so good for the planet

The question is whether the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Given that trees are a renewable resource, I think that when it comes to saving the earth, paper is still the way to go.

[Shagbark Hickory]

127. How do the trees become paper? How does paper become books? How do books get to the readers?

If you want to analyze every objectionable step in the process of the e-readers, then lets also look at every step in the bookmaking process. Hazardous inks and other chemicals, UV radiation, oil and gas, pollution from paper mills. Oh ghood heavens, where do I begin?

[Sportsguy]

94. There's Something About Having A Book In My Hand, And Turning Pages

that I like. I'd really miss actual pages. Besides that, I have many books that are autographed, so then what happens?

[RamboLiberal]

95. That's fine for you

But I doubt if today's video game, smart phone, instant access generation shares that emotional attachment.

[WinkyDink]

118. The discussion is about TEXTbooks.

[WilliamPitt]

138. Bill Simmons?

[mia]

162. I think autographed books will become more valuable.

Cursive handwriting is is longer taught and I suspect that any form of handwriting could become a lost art before long.

I work with several young teachers at a tutoring center who can't read notes written in cursive.

[pipi_k]

172. I love books myself...

The smell and feel of them.

It's funny that sometimes when I'm absorbed in reading a book on my Kindle, I'll forget it's not real and go to turn the page (as opposed to pressing the tab on the side).

That's how real the screen looks. Like a real book page.

You're right, though...a Kindle doesn't smell or feel the same.


As for your real, autographed, books, you could keep them. I have a couple of autographed books also, and some others that I have read over and over again for 30 years and longer. They aren't available on Kindle, so I just keep them and get new ones when they fall apart.

But nobody says you can't have real and Kindle books at the same time... :)

[krabigirl]

107. I don't think it is a bad idea. I have a kindle but I still love regular books.

[WinkyDink]

113. As a retired teacher AND neo-Luddite, I see nothing wrong with this transition. Storage is also a

concern in school buildings; textbooks take up huge amounts of room (I recall but not fondly collecting, stacking, and transporting them hither and yon).

Students can "carry" all their books at once, never, then, "forgetting" any. At school-year's end, the staff need collect only the Kindle (or whatever) from each student.

P.S. I have thousands of books in my house, in case anyone wonders.

[RamboLiberal]

125. I can imagine the student being able to keep the device

or at least retain digitally their textbooks year to year with their & teachers notes. Since much learning is a building block year to year i.e. math, science, history - it would be great to be able to access past year's texts & notes.

[WinkyDink]

134. Excellent point.

[WilliamPitt]

137. I love my Kindle.

Am I a bad person?

[JackRiddler]

147. Yeah, that's totally what it means when one objects to the idea of tablets replacing print books

in schools. It means people with Kindles are thought to be bad people.

[RamboLiberal]

148. No - I'd be interested in your perspective as a very good writer

I would think too that since writers like yourself reference other writer's books, magazines, newspapers & other sources the lookup & reference ability would be a great help.

Even just as a reader who would put post it flags in books meaning to go back and note the ability to do that electronically & make my own note is helpful.

[RamboLiberal]

151. How school librarians are using

A Gilbert elementary-school librarian and principal have discovered a way to motivate students to read, while downloading new books and series instantaneously and cheaply through the use of an e-reader.

The pilot Nook Club at Sonoma Ranch Elementary School is a new type of book club that gives six sixth-graders a school-bought Nook electronic reader and allows them to use the device and read on it for two weeks. The club aims to encourage reading by using the new technology.

-----

"I like that I can read in the dark in bed," sixth-grader Elizabeth White, 11, said of the Nook's illuminated screen. "I also like that I can go on the Internet from home, and it's lighter than a lot of books. But I still read paperback books."

-----

The school is not shunning books, but officials see advantages to the e-reader. Because the school has six Nooks in its account, the librarian only has to buy the book once for the six students to share, which saves money.



Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2011/03/27/20110327gilbert-school-e-reader-nook-club.html#ixzz1Q9MqvOLJ

[RamboLiberal]

156. Kids & parents & schools perspective

"I used to read 50 minutes a day. Now I read maybe 120," says David, who just finished third grade in Osceola, Wis. "I don't know why I read more now. I guess I've just gotten in the habit of reading two hours a night, sitting in bed, curled up in a ball, reading with the Kindle light on."

For Mary Knox, the tipping point was when her employer, the St. Paul Public Library, began loaning e-books two months ago. She figured it was time to finally start using the Nook Color from Barnes & Noble that Grandma had given her 8-year-old son for Christmas.

"My child has never been alive without the Internet. He is a native," says Knox, a library associate in Youth Services at the Central Library. "He will read these things in a different way than I ever have: If he is reading on his Nook Color and comes across a word he doesn't know, he can click on it, and it connects him to a dictionary. He's in the second grade now. I can't imagine what the world will be like by the time he goes off to college, but as his parent, I consider reading online as part of his digital literacy. It's a tool, and I want him to have as many tools as possible."

"We live in the country, both of us work, and we don't live close to the library," says Kate Olson. "David really likes to read, and we thought this would be a convenient way to have access to a lot of different books quickly."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_18244512?nclick_check=1

Schools across the Triangle have embraced technology, such as laptops, smart boards and iPads. Now, a school in North Raleigh is the first in Wake County to use eReaders

North Forest Pines Elementary has 18 Nook Colors, Barnes & Noble's newest electronic reader, which reads like a book but looks and feels like a tablet computer.

“It’s reading, which is one of my favorite things, and it’s also technology, and they just combine it into one thing,” said fifth-grader Sydney Parsons.

There is a cost to download a book, which can be shared on multiple Nooks. However, students can check out Wake County Library books for free on the Nook.

http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/9725174/

[mia]

159. Thanks for the information. The poll results are interesting too.

At what age would you (or did you) let your kids read e-books?

Total Votes = 98
Younger than 5
20.40 %
5-7
31.63 %
8-10
24.48 %
11-13
10.20 %
Older than 13
13.26 %

[Bluenorthwest]

163. To Kill A Mockingbird is not in the publilc domain.

Will not be until like 2060 or something. Published around 1960. The author, Harper Lee, is a living American writer.

[mia]

168. A new documentary "might just inspire viewers to revisit their tattered copies"

Hey, Boo: Harper Lee & To Kill a Mockingbird

A celebration of a beloved novel
By Stephanie Merry
Friday, June 24, 2011


Oprah Winfrey gets choked up when reading her favorite passage from “To Kill a Mockingbird;” Tom Brokaw is still struck by the novel’s universal depiction of small-town life; and James Patterson finds inspiration in the story’s deft use of suspense. Even 50 years after novelist Harper Lee’s opus won the Pulitzer Prize, people can’t stop lavishing praise on the bittersweet book that remains required reading for American teens.

“Hey, Boo: Harper Lee and ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ ” turns out to be a lovefest of a documentary. Yet between interviews about the merits and courage of the novel and clips from the 1962 film adaptation that earned Gregory Peck an Academy Award, Mary McDonagh Murphy’s directorial debut offers up a few morsels of fresh material.

While much of the movie’s revelations will probably sound familiar to “Mockingbird” fanatics, some viewers might be interested to find out how precarious Lee’s success was. She was able to write the book thanks to the generous gift of a year’s salary from friend and Broadway composer Michael Brown. And while 10 publishers turned down the novel, even after J. B. Lippincott & Co. snagged it, Lee had to spend two painstaking years reworking her story about race relations in the South before it became the masterpiece we know today....


While the documentary doesn’t offer a lot in the way of revelations, it does prove that one of the great American novels has lasting power and might just inspire viewers to revisit their tattered copies. And if the movie is really just an enthusiastic celebration of one piece of writing, at least Murphy chose a most worthy subject.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/gog/movies/hey-boo-harper-lee-and-to-kill-a-mockingbird,1205842/critic-review.html

[last_texas_dem]

165. Personally, dealing with an e-textbook seems like it would be a pain in the ass...

Granted, I don't really see the allure of e-books in general. I don't really care if that makes me a "Luddite" or not; I'm all about embracing technology when I see a real purpose in it. Paper books have worked pretty well for me all of my 27 year life thus far, though, and I already spend enough time staring at an electronic screen during the day and don't really care to spend any more time doing so... If it works for others, though, that's cool.

However, trying to deal with an e-book as a textbook just seems like a pain in the ass. In dealing with textbooks, I remember a good deal of flipping between the index and chapters, needing to search through chapters to answer study questions at the end of chapters, needing to refer to multiple sections at once. I'm sure some would argue that e-books would make this all more convenient, but I just don't relate to that idea. It seems about as much fun as dealing with having multiple windows open on a computer, albeit on an even smaller screen.

But, yeah, I'm sure I'm wrong and out of touch and I admit I'm probably just already old and in the way before my time or whatever... I guess I can just be glad I completed school before having to deal with all this junk.

[mia]

166. "having multiple windows open on a computer, albeit on an even smaller screen"

This was my experience when I took an online graduate course. I found myself cutting and pasting a lot of material to put information about the various topics together. We were responsible for all of the information incorporated under the links of the articles assigned. Of course these links within links could go on forever.

Back in the old days of graduate school, being responsible for dozens of photocopied journal articles with my own 3x5 note cards was much easier to manage.

[JackRiddler]

170. Thank you. This shows the way that medium is always (but not solely) determinative of content.

Back in your grad school days, you were stacking and cutting and pasting with the world (so to speak) as your surface for collaging it all together. And now it's supposed to be reduced to one 8x10-inch unit (at best).

[RamboLiberal]

186. What Are Mobile Devices Teaching Your Kids?

-----

Inexpensive lessons and materials: Ebooks for ereaders and other online educational tools like mobile apps are less expensive to produce than traditional textbooks and will save money. Some online materials, such as OpenTextbook, are free. Amazon recently introduced a new ad-supported e-ink Kindle at a reduced rate (less than half of a comparable tablet). Whether schools will allow ad-supported technology in the classroom remains to be seen. Ebooks shouldn't be seen as a separate device like an ereader, but as a free application that exists on almost every platform. The ebook learning experience can be enjoyed anywhere for free. Today, a student can read a free textbook on her school PC, continue reading on her BlackBerry smartphone during the bus ride home and then open the reading app on her iPad to the exact point where she stopped reading on her phone. Any notes she made on any platform would be saved automatically. This content and extra portability cost the student and the school nothing.

Given these pluses, instead of confiscating handhelds, today's teachers want more of them in the classroom. According to a great report (PDF) -- "The New 3 Es of Education: Enabled, Engaged, Empowered: How Today's Educators are Advancing a New Vision for Teaching and Learning,"

Teachers highly value the ability of the devices to increase student engagement in learning (77 percent), to facilitate improved communications between teachers, parents and students (64 percent) and to access online textbooks anytime, anywhere (64 percent). Administrators note the same benefits but with stronger validation of the student engagement component (84 percent) and adding in the idea that the devices can extend learning beyond the school day (66 percent) or create opportunities for more personalized learning experiences (64 percent).
When mobile devices are introduced, studies show that students become more excited about learning and teachers become more enthusiastic about teaching. The benefits are showing in higher test scores, decreases in disciplinary actions and increases in attendance. Some school programs are beginning to require an iPod touch. (A few schools will even standardize over to the iPod touch's big brother, the larger and more expensive iPad.)

-----

When mobile devices are introduced, studies show that students become more excited about learning and teachers become more enthusiastic about teaching. The benefits are showing in higher test scores, decreases in disciplinary actions and increases in attendance. Some school programs are beginning to require an iPod touch. (A few schools will even standardize over to the iPod touch's big brother, the larger and more expensive iPad.)



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/suren-ramasubbu/mobile-learning_b_867745.html

[mia]

195. Thanks for this information - especially : " studies show that

students become more excited about learning and teachers become more enthusiastic about teaching. The benefits are showing in higher test scores, decreases in disciplinary actions and increases in attendance."

[RamboLiberal]

190. The Future of Textbooks in a Digitized World

In January 2011, California start-up company Kno, Inc. announced upcoming beta testing of single and two-screen e-book readers specifically designed for use with electronic textbooks. The devices, consisting of 14-inch screens, replicate the size and appearance of a standard hard-copy textbook and allow users to apply “traditional” study techniques such as highlighting and margin notes. Kno intends to commence selling both products in early 2011.

E-books are not without drawbacks, and their lack of accessibility for the blind has already been the subject of a lawsuit against Arizona State University settled last year. However, the recent proliferation of new general-purpose readers, growing public discontent with the textbook industry, and a California law requiring electronic textbooks in all primary and secondary schools by 2020 indicate that the days of a hard-copy textbook being the primary instruction aid are most likely numbered.

http://wjlta.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/the-future-of-textbooks-in-a-digitized-world/

NOOKstudy brings textbooks of the future

The eTextbook application, designed for both Mac and PC, allows students to download textbooks. Students are able to download the actual program for free at nookstudy.com/college, and are projected to save up to 60 percent when buying eTextbooks compared to the hard copy of a textbook.

"What's exciting is saving kids' money," Uecker said. "We don't want to be the enemy. With this program we're able to help."

Since the program was introduced in August 2010, Barnes and Noble has recorded over 1 million textbook downloads. Of MSU's 1,300 scholarly books available, 650 of them are available digitally. Like the bookstore, students are given the option to rent or buy. Rented books are available for 180 days and books that have been purchased are guaranteed to be on a person's NOOKstudy account for his or her lifetime.

"There is no other software out there that's compatible at this point," Uecker said. "It's believed in five years, 40 percent of the textbook market will be digital. We still give students options, but everyone works differently."

NOOKstudy, which was created and based solely on the opinions of students and faculty in schools nationwide, offers a range of perks. Users argue the program makes studying easier and a more efficient way of learning. With the eTextbook, students can organize their books, presentations and handouts by course so as to help promote structure and order throughout study materials. Students can do this by adding class content to the program and have it arranged in one central location. Students can also have two eTextbooks open at one time to help compare authors' viewpoints.

http://www.msureporter.com/nookstudy-brings-textbooks-of-the-future-1.2165092

BTW anyone can download NookStudy for free.

[Doremus]

193. I see a day when children will see a pencil and ask what they are.

Let alone know how to write their name in cursive.

[RamboLiberal]

194. I think cursive is pretty much a lost art already